Instructables

Anybody working on cryolipolysis?

I am looking at using a pair of Peltier panels to make a "spot reducer" using cryolipolysis. Cryolipolysis is what the Zeltiq machine uses to freeze fat cells such that they dissolve. On a bodybuilding forum they were talking about using cool-paks, those gel-filled plastic blocks that you put in the freezer. 

My idea is to take a hand clamp and mount the Peltiers to it. I may need cooling on the hot sides, for that I will probably use liquid cooling blocks from computer CPU coolers. Then, you just clamp those babies on your love handles and crank up the juice.

"Animal studies show a fat-reducing effect starting at around minus 1C, with the plate in place from five to 20 minutes."

Since Peltiers get about 65 degrees C in differential, and room temp is about 26 degrees (warm room!) it will be a piece of cake for the junction to chill off those love handles.

Would not be hard to put a temp controller on it to protect from frostbite or from burning up the junctions.

Before you scoff, a Zeltiq treatment runs $700!

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blinkstreet3 years ago
I am working on it with blue gel packs. They get the job done. They are certainly cold enough. So cold, in fact, that you run the danger of freezing the skin if you don't keep a careful watch on the area. The most important tips I have learned are as follows:

Put the gel packs into a sleeve and never let them contact your skin directly. If they contact the skin they will freeze it, which causes blisters and is very painful. Keep them in a home freezer that is set to its coldest setting.

Cool the skin to below 0 degrees C (42 degrees F) and keep it there for a good 45 minutes. You will have to change gel packs several times to do this, so keep several in your freezer. When the skin is at its coolest point, start shaking and pounding on the cold fatty area. This helps to damage the frozen fat cells. Keep the area under treatment as elevated as possible to reduce blood flow to it.

You will know it is working if you get a strange taste in your mouth a few days after the treatment. It could take up to three weeks. It is a sort of bitter, almost chemical taste. Not very pleasant, but to me the taste of cryolipolysis. It takes a few months before the effect is complete, and some areas seem to melt faster than others.

I would love to hear from anyone else who is trying this.

Has anyone considered one of the Chinese made machines with freezing probes? These are around the price of two Zeltiq treatments - I figured I could just buy a whole machine instead of going for the real deal only twice.

529353709_038.jpg

that's what I was trying to find out. There are a ton on eBay. If you lived in my area we could go half dies and try it out.

ted_ferguson2 months ago

I'm working on a liquid pump system. I bought a cheap aquarium pump and built my own cooling plates similar to the ones Jumprocks bought. First test was using icewater in a cooler pumped through 2 plates. Obviously didn't get cold enough to freeze fat but was a good test in the ability for the plates to pinch-an-inch.

My next plan is to create a 2 reservoir system. Here's a diagram: http://i.imgur.com/C3h2YQi.png. The fluid lines are color coded by expected temperature. The first reservoir will be a clear, sealed container (Sealed Reservoir) that will house a circulator pump which will continuously pump cold antifreeze through the plates (lines from yellow to red). The 2nd reservoir (Freezer Reservoir) will be much larger, stored in the freezer and will have a 2nd circulator pump that will pump super cold antifreeze (cyan line) from the Freezer Reservoir into the Sealed Reservoir. Since that container is sealed antifreeze will be pushed back into the Freezer Reservoir via a return tube (green line). A temperature controller will be used to cycle the power on the pump in the Freezer Reservoir when the plates warm up. The biggest problem I see is lag from when the power on that pump cycles and how long it takes for the sealed reservoir to cool and then the plates to cool once colder antifreeze is pumping through them. One way to fix this would be to put the thermistor in the Sealed Reservoir instead of on the plates. That way the liquid pumping through the plates should be pretty constant. Depending on how often the temp controller kicks on, I might be able to put the sealed reservoir in the freezer as well. It will likely take some tuning.

ValerieM13 months ago

Using cold to reduce fat is the way to go. Clinical treatments are expensive and the results may not last without proper diet and exercise. Asrai's Touch is designed to reduce your fat and it's reusable. It's only $85 and will last for years. www.fatfreezingwrap.com is one of the website. www.freezingfatwrap.com is another.

Exocetid (author)  ValerieM13 months ago
Sad, very sad. Such a pathetic scam.

Try these instead:

$15.99 Neoprene Wrap

$12.97 Cool Gels

Significantly cheaper and just as useless.
Jmmny7 months ago

What happened to Lapsmith? Was waiting to hear about results. I think an at home method of doing this is possible if the underlying science can be determined. That is - the temp the fat must be brought to and for how long - in order to get fat cell destruction. I am not convinced that the fat MUST be sucked into a device for this to work. Z was trying to create a commercial product that would deliver efficient, effective, fast results with just a few treatments. An inexpensive solution that can be used at home, even if it required multiple applications, would be fine for a home user. So IF, theoretically, a cold gel pack could be applied to the skin and IF it could cool the underlying fat to the correct temp (even if this method would cool a smaller depth of fat than if sucked or clamped) than one would simply have to monitor the skin temp under the gel pack and change the pack when the temp increased to ineffectiveness. That could be done as many times as needed for the duration of the treatment. I am experimenting with the product, Asrai's Touch. It is a belt that holds three gel packs. I am skeptical about this product sold as is - BUT if it brings the skin to the correct temp for the correct period of time, one could change it to a different frozen belt each time the temp increased too much - perhaps every fifteen minutes, requiring four of them for a 1 hour treatment.

Exocetid (author)  Jmmny7 months ago
There has been significant research into cryolipolysis. The fact remains that you want to pinch the skin to put the cold in contact with the fat. Putting the cold directly onto the skin will only give minimal results at a very thin surface layer. Yes, it will still work, but the basic issue here is freezing the fat cells while leaving the skin unharmed. That is the point of the vacuum devices.

Asrai's Touch looks to be something of a scam to me--$85 bucks for some alcohol gel-packs and a velcro wrap?
Jmmny Exocetid7 months ago
Yes, I agree that Asrai's touch is probably a scam. Even if it is possible to destroy a very thin layer of fat by cooling the skin with gel packs, I highly doubt that this product can cool the area down to the correct temp for the correct period of time. I have read this entire thread and also scoured the internet for the information - to answer the basic questions:

1. what temp range must the fat be kept at
2. for how long

I have a whole new approach on how to make this work, but need that essential info FIRST.
Jumprocks Jmmny7 months ago

I think Exocetid is right that the Key to the process is pinching the skin. I've been sidelined for a few months but I picked this project again. I'll reply in detail when I have a bit more time in the vacuum head thread. but I think the skin pinching device is much more simpler than I first thought. Instead of a vacuum head I've come up with using two Large CPU coolers (they are about the height and length of a stick of butter and a Spring Clam. in these pictures the clamp I'm using is too small and is too strong for the job. I need something that has about 1.25 in bite and will not pinch the skin.., If this solution works then there's no need to build a vacuum head. the only system needed are the cooling, circulating and temp regulating,,,

IMG_1278[1].JPGIMG_1279[1].JPGIMG_1277[1].JPG
Exocetid (author)  Jumprocks7 months ago

Those coolers are perfect, great find! Now, consider this for the pincher. Don't worry, the pinch is controllable.

23-large.gif

Ouch!!!.. I'm looking for something lighter. Also it needs to have about a 3-3.5 inch caliber (jaw size).. I"m thinking of something among the lines of a plastic c-Clamp or something..

and Yes, the cooling block was an incredible find. I think they cost about $10.00 on ebay. If you go back though to blog you will find my evolution of thought on this. everything I tried was heavy,,,

I think in order to balance the cooling better I'm going to set the input/out lines 180 apart.

jaykins Jumprocks6 months ago

Like I said in an earlier reply, I dont think your idea of using the 'sludge' (cooled viscous liquid) is going to work too well. To control the temp it will be very tricky. You would be better off with peltiers. This is what the actual Coolsculptor uses and it is what I used to make the Frankensculptor. It works (yes, I tested it), so why waste time with someone that will undoubtedly be harder to manage, more expensive and bulkier?

Jmmny Jumprocks7 months ago

You hit the nail on the head. The skin pinch is so simple. The whole idea of a vacuum device is a waste of time and technology. I have been playing with large binder clips that have been heated and "stretched". They work effectively and painlessly. It would be easy to construct a totally adjustable metal "pincher" that could effectively pinch any size fat fold.

Jumprocks Jmmny7 months ago

Well I was 135 bucks deep into a vacuum system (I bought a kick-ass Leybold vacuum pump and was in track to get a weld to weld me an aluminum suction head (I was going to use a sheetrock hawk as the source of aluminum. can you post a picture of the pinchers? thanks

jaykins Jumprocks6 months ago

Aluminium welding is very delicate, requires skill and wont be cheap. You need a TIG to do it (and not just any TIG). You wont be able to do it yourself with a cheap ebay welder as they are MIG or Arc. Personally, I dont think its worth putting that sort of money in to it unless you know someone.

jaykins Jmmny6 months ago

If you had read this entire thread as you claim to have, then you would know the answer to both your questions. I have either answered them below or linked to the patent information for the Coolsculptor which has the information you need. I've built the 'Frankensculptor' (Cryolipolysis machine) which is featured on my blog with DIY instructions/pictures, if you're interested. Again, look below for the URL.

aantix3 years ago
Was just curious if you made any progress towards making this device and if so, was it effective?
Exocetid (author)  aantix3 years ago
Sorry, so many projects, so little time ;-)

That said, the more I thought about Peltier, the less I liked it. My current thinking is that gel packs are the way to go--see blinkstreet above. I think that the Zeltiq uses a chiller along with antifreeze pumped through the treatment head.

CPU cooling plates/blocks should fit the bill.. .

jaykins12 months ago
http://hackaday.com/2013/11/19/diy-coolsculptor-freezes-fat-with-cryolipolysis/

The Frankensculptor has been features on Hack A Day :)
Jumprocks1 year ago
Project costs to date:
so far this little project has cost me about $300. I'm not to far from being finish with the parts buying. I think I lucked out in that I found a lyneard vacuum pump on craigslist for $75. form what I can tell these models go for about $1-2K., the guy says he has 3 of them so hopefully I get the best of the liter..

Anyway see attached for my parts list..

parts list.JPG
Jumprocks1 year ago
Heater and Liquid Cooling:

I'm still working on the Liquid cooled approach to this problem v. peltier plate solution. when first presented with the problem of regulating the temperature probably come out on top (were are the only issue to deal with is the cooling of the plates.

My first blush at temp regulation was to inject hot water (from a coffee pot or something, I was now dealing with two water sources, pumps tubes, etc. then I came across the Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DMiYSoffBA

it was a ah-ha moment. from his I went to Home depot and Lowes to connect all the parts. itit all cost under $20.. Right now this is a work in progress but I figured I would share what I have so far. I'm waiting for my CPU coolplate to understand the size of the nipple in need for the input/output and before glusing everything together.

when done, I'll be going, use a Dallas thermostat to measure the head temp and if it's goes out of range then the Heater will kick on. I'll be using USBmicro 120v relay powered by Robot basic.
IMG_0764.JPGIMG_0765.JPGIMG_0766.JPGIMG_0767.JPGIMG_0768.JPGIMG_0764.JPGIMG_0765.JPGIMG_0766.JPGIMG_0767.JPGIMG_0768.JPG
Ok, now that I built this I'm beginning to to to think that a that the 2" pipe is a bit big. Though it looks very cool, i think I'm going to scall it down to 1".. the heater element fits nicel into a 1"pvC.. I'm thinking that if there's less water in the heater core then it will take less time to heat the water thus avoiding wide swings in temperature.
Jumprocks1 year ago
Control program: 

well I had some time to Kill  Yesterday and figured I would writing the Robotics control program.  After not writing code for over 20 years it felt good to fool around with something that  purpose. 

when  started writing this I began to realize  how simple insanely simple this really is. I've completed most  gui but will be working on it over time..  All this do is monitor a USBmicro U401 connected to a  Dallas 18b20 , or some variant) and toggle the a USBmocro U541 Relay when some temp event occurs (like when the unit is up to temp, to stat the vacuum and the timer). 

anyway I figured I would share what I have so far.. If someone (a better programmer than me)  feels like adding the the existing please feel free.

here's the code base:

//*********************************************************************
//   Program name: Cool1
//          Owner: Wizzo Corp. 
//         Author: Mr.  Freeze
//           Date: 10/18/2013
//        Purpose:  the purpose of this program is to Monitor Temp sensors and accuate values and pumps
//                  when a certain temperature is reached.
//
//**********************************************************************

MainProgram:
   GoSub Initialization
   while true
      //wait for events
   wend
End

// Insert the start button




Initialization:

 
       fnt = "Times New Roman"
 
       // add the Title
        program_title  = "CyroSculpt"
        AddButton program_title,50,5,610,60
        SetButtonFont program_title,fnt,20,fs_bold, green
       
         // add the initialize, start, and stop buttons at the bottom of the screen
         //
          AddButton "Initalize",10,550,110
          AddButton "Start",130,550,110
          AddButton "Stop",250,550,110
       
         // Timmer
         //
          session_timmer = "Session Timer"
          AddButton session_timmer,50,100,110,33
          addslider session_timmer,160,100,500,0,60,0,1
          SetSliderPos session_timmer, 30
          ShowSliderBar session_timmer,true
          xystring 170,85, "0                         30                        60"  //slider label
      
         //Slurry temp Slider
         //
          slurry_temp = "Slurry Temp"
          AddButton slurry_temp,50,150,110,33
          addslider slurry_temp,160,150,500,0,90,0,1
          SetSliderBarStart slurry_temp,28
          SetSliderBarEnd slurry_temp,36
          xystring 170,135, "0                 32                               100" //Slider Label
          SetSliderPos slurry_temp, 38         // used to toggle position of pointer on slider
            
         //Head Temp Slider
         //
          head_temp ="Head Temp"  
          AddButton head_temp,50,200,110,33  
          addslider head_temp,160,200,500,30,90,0,1
          SetSliderBarStart head_temp,28
          SetSliderBarEnd head_temp,36
          xystring 170,185, "0                 32                               100"  //Slider Label
      
         //Heater Temp Slider
         //
          heater_temp= "Heater Temp"
          AddButton heater_temp,50,250,110,33
          addslider heater_temp,160,250,500,30,90,0,1
          SetSliderBarStart heater_temp,28
          SetSliderBarEnd heater_temp,36
          xystring 170,235, "0                 32                               100"  //Slider Label   
      
       //
       // status buttons
       AddButton "Pump Status",50,300,110,33
    
       //Prints the pump status
       //
       s = "ON"
       fnt = "Times New Roman"
       xyText 170,300,s,fnt,20,fs_Bold,green
 
      
       AddButton "Vacuum Status",50,334,110,33
       //Prints the vacuum status
       //
       s = "ON"
       fnt = "Times New Roman"
       xyText 170,334,s,fnt,20,fs_Bold,green
 
       AddButton "Heater Status",50,368,110,33
       //Prints the vacuum status
       //
       s = "ON"
       fnt = "Times New Roman"
       xyText 170,368,s,fnt,20,fs_Bold,green
 
       //              
      
    
       //
      
        joe="joe"
       AddTimer joe, 1000
       SetTimer joe, true
      
      
       for i = 1 to 60
           TimerIsOn(joe)
           GetTimerPeriod(joe)
           GetTimerTicks(joe)
      

      
        delay 1000
       xytext 50,420,TimerIsOn(joe)
       xytext 50,425,GetTimerPeriod(joe)
       xytext 50,430,GetTimerTicks(joe)
       xytext 50,435,i
       SetSliderPos session_timmer, i
       next





screen.JPG
ofezo2 years ago
So I gave this a go at home (for my lower abdomen) with those blue block-like Rubbermaid ice packs a few weeks ago. I am a sonographer so I had the chance to actually measure my fat layer before to see what the difference would be in 4 months. I measured 1.2 cm (yes very small amount but annoying for just that reason!). I purchased 3 ice packs and switched them out about every 15-20 minutes. I also had a laboratory-type thermometer to monitor the temp. The first 20 minutes I had the ice pack directly on my skin as it did not feel that cold and then temp did not drop very low. My theory is that it was just sucking out all the heat from my body. As soon as the 2nd ice pack hit my skin it was REALLY cold. Painfully so. I tried to tolerate it as best I could but I was kind of scared about freezing and blistering of the skin so I put a layer of plastic wrap between my skin and the ice pack. Still very cold, but at least I didn't have direct skin contact. The thermometer got down to ~ 6 degrees celcius for the majority of the time. I switched ice packs after 20 minutes, and then again after 15, as it wasn't feeling quite as cold and the thermometer was closer to ~ 10 degrees celcius. I actually did the procedure for 1 hour and 20 minutes because I figured the first 20 minutes was just the removal of my body heat. The last 20 minutes the ice packs were just not getting as cold, so I used a ziploc baggie with ice and water. That got it back down to 6 degrees. At the end of it all I thumped at the area to break up the fat cells as was recommended in another post. During the whole procedure I was laying relatively flat in bed and my husband was getting the ice packs, the saran wrap, etc for me. I was definitely numb in my lower abdomen for the rest of the night and the next morning I did in fact have a spot of "freezer burn" on one side of my lower abdomen. It appears to be very superficial and I believe it will fade as my skin sloughs off (no blistering). It's been a few weeks and it's still there, so keeping my fingers crossed! If it never goes away I'll just claim it's a birthmark, lol. Numbness went away the next day. I will be measuring my fat layer again in 4 months to see if this worked! I didn't ever get the thermometer to read 4 degrees, but I am hoping 6 degrees is close enough! Especially since I am a very thin person to begin with, I am hoping the cold penetrated better. I'll post before and after pics later...
When you say you got the temperature to ~6 or ~10 degrees Celcius, that is above 0, right? the "~" means "approximately", not "minus"?

The temperatures I was working with were all below 0 degrees Celcius. I don't know if you will have an effect unless you chilled down to that temperature. The fact that you got some skin blistering suggests that you did get too cold in one area, so the heat (or cold) may have been poorly distributed. I did not ever have good results from using water ice packs. The blue gel packs seem to distribute the cooling more evenly.

Let us know how it works, though!
@blinkstreet...

Have you seen results from this?

I have just made a home made cooling setup. I used an aluminum plate suction chamber similar in size to the Zeltiq applicators. I have heat exchangers bonded to both sides of the chamber and have 2 pumps circulating fluids through them. I currently use a cooler full of salted ice water. I use enough salt to get the temperature of the ice water down to minus 3 C. This seems to be able to chill the chamber down to just slightly below 0 C. Around minus 0.5 C. I measure around 0 down to minus 0.5 C at the skin/aluminum contact point. I use a venturi type of vacuum generator. It is capable of drawing over 28 inHG, which would be too much. I regulated the supply to the venturi down to 45 PSI, which is just under a vacuum level that is painfull, yet sucks up plenty of stuff.

It has been 4 days since I tried this. My stomach is still very numb. I have read in other places that many people get pins and needles after a few days, but I have not experienced this, just very numb. I hope to see results in a few weeks. If not, I may drop the temperature a little more.

I have found some interesting research papers here and there that elude to various temperatures and such.
Blinkstreet, what type of vacuum are you using??


joe
any results.. do you have pictures of your work.>
I do mean above zero degrees celcius but from what I read online, it says to cool it down to just above freezing (4 - 8 degrees), so that is why I was aiming for that. Hopefully I see some result, although I realize 1.2 cm of fat for most people is negligible. if I can get it to 1/2 that I will consider it a success :)
ofezo ofezo2 years ago
Ok, sorry I took so long to do an update, but I didn't see any discernible results :(. It may have been because it didn't get cold enough, or maybe cause I only had a centimeter of fat to begin with, lol. I did get nice freezer burn as mentioned, and it did fade a bit, but it is still there if you look hard enough. Looks kinda like a birthmark though, so no biggie. I know any suction type device wouldn't work for me, as I don't have much to suction into anything, but I hope others are more successful with this. I thought I would be too BECAUSE I didn't have much fat.... I thought the cold would penetrate easier and freeze better. For now I am just working out the old fashioned way!
Jumprocks1 year ago
Controlling software/Operation system:

It looks like Jaykins and some others are working on  Andrino/Raspberry Pi based controllers to monitor control and Run these devices. I personally am not looking forward to to buying, configuring building, writing code  either devices.

In my search for 120v soild state relays, I came across an Instratable using Relays and ROBObasic to control two lights. Here:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Computer-control-of-AC-devices/?ALLSTEPS

If you think about it,  these devices need some temp. sensing inputs and the ability to toggle certain things like pumps heaters on  trigger events.

This would allow for easily developed and shared software. Also it looks like it works on the andrino too (for those who want to add a couple of points of difficulty to the projects).

here's the website...
http://www.robotbasic.org/index.html
robotbasic.JPG
Jumprocks1 year ago
Hi,
I’ve been reading this blog and this is a pretty interesting topic. I underwent a cool sculpting procedure last year and I’ve been enamored about reverse engineering the technology; and now I stumble on to this place.

From All my reading (I means form what’s in the Web) it strikes me that there are four main systems that have to work together to achieve full cryolipolysis.

I would like to see if we can break some of the engineering so we can concentrate on the each aspect to see if we can, as a group, come up with best in class solution. Here what I feel are the areas of concentration. Please feel free to comment..

Cooling systemw
- Closed loop
- Open Loop
- Iced based system
- Fridge based systems
- Proper cooling temp
- Pumps

Vacuum system
- Vacuum cleaner
- Air condition Recharge systems
- Other

Vacuum head
- Home built Ideas
- Can one be purchased off of a Chinese Take off
- can a head be custom build.

Control system
- PC based
- Raspberry PI/ andruno based
- Temp sensors

Thanks.
Hi Jump,

Welcome to our struggle ;) This little project is proving slightly more difficult than I originally thought!

As you can see from the below posts. I've made a cyrolipolysis machine which utilises a closed loop, peltier-based cooling system and is controlled via an Arduino. I started sometime in June and I'm still working on the Arduino code today. It currently has a display, cooling/heating control. Once I am done with it it will have memory (remembers the last session and if it was cut too short. Session counter. Temp settings etc...), a menu system and a few other funky additions.

I'm putting together all the pictures I took while building and using the device and will post it up on my blog soon (makeitbreakitfixit.com)... actually, your posts have given me the drive to get to work on this today ;)



Thanks.. I know what you mean about level of difficulty. I've done many of these backyard engineering project and can appreciate the tolerances and constraints we’re dealing with.. Simply stated these types of projects are a confluence of technologies that result in a unique product. The balance is pretty precise, you change one thing on one side and you will find yourself change 2-3 other things.

I’ve never worked the the peltier cooling system. I did a web search and I see the plates but I’m concerned that the head units are about 2inces high and 3-8 inches long (do the plates become expensive??)

I’m not and engineer (I've worked in high tech for 30 years) so I always try to Mirror the thing I’m trying build; hence thinking that the head is filled cooling liquid.. I saw your picture with the Plate camped to your body. Would it be possible to use the plate with a vacuum system?

I’d like to know more about the control system. I’ve read a lot about the Raspberry Pi but not Arduino


BTW when I went for my session, the operator, a feisty cougar nurse, said she had used the machine on herself (no attendants to help). So that is one of my end goals so have it be operated and used by one person.
Hi Joe,

You'll find the actual Zelt machine uses Peltier plates also. The cooling fluid you refer to is used to cool the warm side of the peltier so the temperature difference can shift the colder side below zero.
Have a look at the patent information I have mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
Ok, in my bend copper tubing to create a heat exchange failed. I was looking around for alternative and came across cooling block.
I see that the double CPU is probably what is needed for the large unit.. i need to figure out the bard size. they have them at 10MM i think I need to have it around 3/8 of and in (a guess on my part)


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5039.m570.l1313&_nkw=cooling+block&_sacat=0&_from=R40
jaykins1 year ago
Hey Exoceid. Sorry to hijack your thread here and feel free to delete this post if you like. But I have instructions on how to create the device on my blog. Found here: http://makeitbreakitfixit.com/

If you want to contact me it would be best going through the blog. I hardly get on Instructables anymore :/

GOOD LUCK! and remember... always post pictures of how you did things and your source code. Share Share and Share! Information should always be FREE :)
Exocetid (author)  jaykins1 year ago
You did not hijack my thread and I think the work you have done on this is just exceptional. My goal with the original posting was to get some dialog going in the hopes that someone would take the idea and run with it. You may note that some said that this could not be done with Peltier panels--clearly you've show that to be nonsense.

Anyway, bravo! Great design!

As for information, I fully agree that information should be free, but you should pay to use someone else's idea if you are making money with it--that is why we have a patent system.
100% agreed buddy! Thanks for bringing the question to the public forum.
I will periodically post up more of my pictures as I sort through them all and add comments.
lemonie4 years ago

Exploit suckers if you wish, but don't kid anyone that this is a good idea.
Anyway, Peltier devices are going to disappoint you.

L
Hate to disappoint you, but they worked a treat! :)
Check out my device. You can see pics above.
Exocetid (author)  jaykins1 year ago
Told you ;-)
Jumprocks1 year ago
Vacuum:
what type of vacuum pumps are people using on their system? vacuum cleaners are a bit noisy and it strikes me that they don't have the suction needed for the job at hand. what about the pumps they use for Automobile AC evacuation subsystems? (I an even begin to fathom how to size one. )
Hey Jumprocks,

I see you are testing different methods. Glad to see this type of prototyping :)
Have you settled on any sort of cooling mechanism? I'm still not sure if the slurry method is the best way, but whatever works for you mate! :)

I have begun to post up pics from my CoolSculpting project (codenamed FrankSculptor) on my blog. I have put up instructions if you are interested in making one similar to mine.

http://makeitbreakitfixit.com/

If you end up getting that vacuum system to work be sure to let us know! :)
lotsa fat1 year ago
has anyone had any experience with the for home use units from China? Unless one has the right parts just laying around the cost to build a similar home unit could be quite expensive.
Hi,, I've contacted a couple of these suppliers and I always ask for the number to 3 US references and they never reply.,

I really have just have a few questions for the contact: 1. how long have you had the machine 2. Does it really work, 3. how good is the software, and 4. how is the quality.
i believe that the product should sell itself.

The lack of response is disturbing to say the least.
Jumprocks1 year ago
Flow Rates. Anyone want to venture a guess as to the Cooling liquid flow rate? for both the Peliter and non-pleiter (or Direct cool) options.. I just bought two fountain pumps one at 50 and the other at 120gph..


joe.
Jumprocks1 year ago
Temperature control:

jaykins has designed a cooling plate device, as int he original l the plates offer very precise control of the head temperature. . I  wonder if a simpler solution  would be to use two soruces of water, one being the cooling fluid and the second being  hot water (kept on a hot plate of some sorts. )  the temp would be measures  just before it entered the cooling head and if the water was too cold then hot water wound be injected into the stream bringing it back within range. 

I would think as long as the slurry is colder than what you need then this will work fine. 

any thoughts??
jaykins1 year ago
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the patent info for the Zeltiq device yet. This is the most reliable and authoritative source for the device.

See: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=5&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=zeltiq&OS=zeltiq&RS=zeltiq

I am looking at building one of these devices.
Using gel packs I am not convinced will work. I could go in to describing why but I would prefer to discuss the methods I will be using which are similar (almost identical) to what is described in the patent.

ThermoElectricCoolers (TEC) are needed. AKA Peltier coolers.
TEC's only work if you place a suitably efficient heat-sink on the warm side. A chunk or metal or a gel pack is not enough. The cheapest way of doing this is a closed-loop liquid cooler which comes in the convenient package of a CPU cooler (see 'Corsair H60' for an example). These work on 12v DC and so do the Peltier coolers. Coincidence? I think not! even GOD wanted us to build this! :P

Thermal communication/transfer is ESSENTIAL here. Peltiers are inherently inefficient so the transfer of heat needs to be as efficient as possible to get the desired results. I am planning on using copper sheets between the CPU cooler and the Peltier on the warm side and a copper sheet between the Peltier on the cool side and an aluminium block (which will be used on the skin). Each contact point will have a layer of thermal paste to assist in the transfer.
You need to create two of the above contraptions which will then be used as the two sides of the 'aluminium block sandwich'. (This needs to be rigged in to a clamp, somehow. I am yet to figure this bit out).
Using a probe temp sensor on both sides of the 'aluminium block sandwich' we can regulate the temp by adjusting the CPU coolers pump/fan speeds. I am planning on using an arduino-based circuit for this (once again, this can run from the 12v DC source regulated down to 5v DC which is what many arduino's use).
jaykins, have you figured out the plate size and watted needed??? Do you have Recommended parts list??
Exocetid (author)  jaykins1 year ago
The patent(s) is(are) certainly a good source of inspiration, but we are not talking rocket science here--although there are a number of key principles that must be considered, as you have pointed out.

Don't give up on the gel-packs too quickly. Body builders have been using them and have reported them as being quite effective. We understand the physiology; i.e., chill fat cells and kill them, but it is the technology that has so much variance. Gel cells buy you an extremely inexpensive solution at a high price in terms of convenience and efficiency. You could go get a Zeltiq treatment at $700+.

As for peltiers, they are my personal favorite. However, as you describe, they are problematic and it is not just an issue of getting a few and strapping them on. Keep at it though, you definitely have a good handle on the problem.
I'd be very interested to see if gel packs actually work. I see some people on here claiming they do but I also see others claiming they don't. I think the problem with gel packs is that you cannot control all other variables during the process. For example, you cant precisely control the temperature (you need to keep changing packs) and you also cant properly pinch/suck the skin to create the ischemia necessary as explained in the patent I pasted above (also, see the amended patent info here: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=4&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=zeltiq&OS=zeltiq)

A few things it mentions in the patent is the temperature at which the device will work. It explains in details the clasp/clamp mechanism "Z" were planning to use in 2010 (and then the amended vacuum system in 2012, see link above). It even goes so far to describe the wattage used in the Peltiers and the method used to remove heat from the hot side of the Peltier. Plus diagrams etc..

If anyone is planning on building a device to be used multiple times (and lets face it, any device you build will not be able to work on a larger surface area than the "Z", and the "Z" requires multiple applications) then you need to look in to building something that can last multiple uses and will give the same results (so gel packs isnt very reliable for this sort of thing).
Exocetid (author)  jaykins1 year ago
I frankly see no reason why gel packs would not work, it's just that the use of them is suboptimal compared to a Zeltiq treatment. However, the gel packs are going to be of minimal cost. You are going to have to do more applications to get the same benefit, but you will eventually have success.
By the way, did you end up making the device you mentioned in your original post? You've had plenty of time to try ;)
Also, have you used gel packs before? Did you notice any difference?
Exocetid (author)  jaykins1 year ago
No, so many projects, so little time.

In actuality, I melted my fat the old-fashioned way--exercise.
Hey Exo. Just a heads-up my frankensculpting device is nearly complete. Just waiting for the final touches. I am yet to drill a hole in the plates and insert temp sensors. Also, I need to create a complete wiring harness for the power supply, which is also needing to be replaced with a smaller sized one (but outputs more power). Finally, I will be installing a method to increase and decrease the voltage to the peltiers so that I can control the temp to the skin.

Initial burn-in test was today, where I ran it at full power for a few hours. In this pic you can see the two plates (which are used to sandwich the fold of skin for treatment) have built up a layer of nicely frozen condensation (no water was added).

http://i.imgur.com/GdOblN7.jpg
GdOblN7[1].jpg
Exocetid (author)  jaykins1 year ago
That thing is scary!!

Just kidding--looks great. Your plan to use temp sensors is wise. Can't wait to see the final version.
I posted earlier but the post seems to be have been deleted from public viewing, although I can see it when I log in. Weird.
Anyway, the info is here:
http://i.imgur.com/LSg8raS.png

Also, I heard from a doc that the temperature is supposed to be +5degC. But looking at the patents I see that it says ideal is -10 to 0degC. I cant find an authoritative public source on it that isnt the patent -- however, the chinese versions of the coolsculpting machine all say -10 to 0C or -15 - 0C (see alibaba.com). So im testing with -5 not (the device bounces between -5 and -3. Lets see how it goes.
Exocetid (author)  jaykins1 year ago
A burp in the system. I was emailed your previous comment, but it was not displayed here so a response was not possible.

Clearly, you have created a Peltier-based cryolipolysis device and from your results is most likely effective. I found seven papers at PubMed on cryolipolysis, but none mentioned temperatures in the abstracts. I will need to check deeper to see if I can get you a trial-tested temp.
Hi Exo. If you could please have a look that would be greatly appreciated.
I had a read through the patent twice and I can't find any reference to temperatures (excepting the quote I posted earlier).
I had a look through the FDA website and found the device (NO: K120023, for those interested), but the only reference to temperature was:

http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FHY/GG79/HIWDJUYQ/FHYGG79HIWDJUYQ.SQUARE.jpg

So it quotes a CIF (Cooling Intensity Factor) of 42. Great! Searching the net for CIF and conversion methods yields almost zero results. By the looks of it the unit of measurement CIF was _invented_ by Zeltiq themselves!! and the FDA has gone ahead and used Zeltiqs own nomenclature in their FDA report! How stupid....
It also mentions CIF 42 is equiv. to 72.9 mW/cm^2 of heat extraction over 60 mins. But I have no idea what do with that.

So currently, I am using myself as the guinea pig and found that subzero temps are fine for my skin, so long as I use a towel between my skin and the device and I soak the towel in saltwater before a procedure. This way the towel wont freeze and give me frost bite (learnt that one the hard way!).
SjnFzYM[1].png
Exocetid (author)  jaykins1 year ago
That (CIF) is from a paper where the research was funded by Zeltiq. I could not find temperature either, but the so-called Cooling Intensity Factor (defined as the measure of the rate of heat extraction from a tissue; a high CIF represents a higher rate of heat extraction or a colder cycle) is more for relating cooling to effectiveness of the technique than it is for establishing a temperature for operation. Since CIF is defined in terms of area, it is calculated based on the size of the application plates. I would ignore it and look to minimum safe temperatures before frostbite sets in. Just anecdotal, but I would not go past -5 degrees and I would absolutely use an interface--try the gel in gel packs.
Yes, it does look scary! lol
First test run completed successfully. By successfully, I mean I was able to keep the temperature stable 5C (+/- 2) for 1 hour while clamping the skin/fat tightly to restrict blood flow.

The first pic shows the clamp in place. The cabling was not complete which did not allow me to clamp it down properly, so the skin/fat slipped out a little. But still we got a good hold.

http://i.imgur.com/J5GpwY1.jpg

The second pic shows the 'block' of skin after 1 hour of ~5C. This is similar to what you would see in the 'Z' youtube videos.

http://i.imgur.com/y0tPCHJ.png

I will be documenting the whole process and step-by-step pictures/instructions on my blog at www.makeitbreakitfixit.com once I complete the final version. Currently, the temperature controller I built using an Arduino is a little flaky and the wiring needs to be cleaned up considerably.
J5GpwY1[1].jpgy0tPCHJ[1].png
Exocetid (author)  jaykins1 year ago
I think you've answered the naysayer(s) who said you can't use a Peltier solution!
According to the patent the temperature you need to get is -10C to 0C.

[Quoted from Patent: An exemplary range for the cooling elements 130a-b can be from about -20.degree. C. to about 20.degree. C., preferably from about -20.degree. C. to about 10.degree. C., more preferably from about -15.degree. C. to about 5.degree. C., more preferably from about -10.degree. C. to about 0.degree. C. ]

Of course, the gel packs will not be able to reduce the temperature of the fold of skin below its own temperature. To add, the pack will immediately begin to warm up once pulled from the freezer and continue to warm up considerably when applied to the skin. To assume the gel pack can cool the target area within the desired range as explained in the patent you would need to it start out well below -10C and you would need many packs to keep the skin within the range for the required length of time (around 45 mins to an hour).
According to my quick google search, freezers can reach below -20C, so I suppose the above isn't impossible, just not ideal and very difficult to control; with the risk of cooling too much (when the skin is already cold and you apply a fresh gel pack) and causing damage (someone below describes a cold burn that left a scar from doing exactly this).

I read below in one of the replies that different temperatures were used (around 4 or 6 Celsius). Does anyone know where these figures were from? Is it from an authoritative source? I can't find mention of them anywhere in the actual patent information.
Just to follow up on this post I made earlier, for posterity and to correct my error above. The temp used is ~5C. This was confirmed after I spoke to a consultant for 'Z' and he told me the temp which is used. This temp is set to that is cannot be changed. Please ignore the temp ranges I quoted above.
To add. The patent mentions the clamp will not only hold the fold of skin in place for the procedure, but the pressure on the skin will also prevent blood circulation to the device which would warm the area back up.
So the clamps use is two-fold. Hold the treatment zone; and prevent the treatment zone from warming up through blood flow.

Another reason why I don't believe gel packs are going to be very useful here.
Jumprocks1 year ago
Vacuum Head unit:

After doing some research on Stainless steel funnels, I’m pretty sure that the funnel cannot be sufficiently modified to meet the design requirements. My search led me to steam table insets and then the Bar garnish stations. All these items came close but did not have the dimensions needed (I’m assuming that it’s got to be about 1 ¼ inches x (4 or 8) inches (depending on area). This led me to Plexiglass/lexan forming. Apparently you can heat a sheet in an oven and you can drape it over and object and it will take its shape (think myth busters)

My thinking now is to create a mold from pine board (either route the ends or use dowels) and form a piece of Plexiglas over the blank. This should create a nice smooth surface for the flesh to slide on.. From the instructions on the web you can fine tune it with a heat gun so there’s plenty of hang time.

Note 1; This Idea is predicated on the assumption that Copper coils can be wrapped around the outside of the unit and will generate/transfer enough heat/cold to have the unit be effective.

Note 2; Plexiglas at Home Depot is about $5-10 for those who are bold you can get vacuum forming machines from $100 up (not sure if the low end unit gets hot enough to melt the Plexiglas.

Note: 3; If the actually works (the molding, and the heat transfer), then this could be a good cottage business for someone to make and sell these head units
Your thoughts are appreciated.


Joe.
\
Hi Joe,

I wouldnt bother with plexiglas. The heat transfer through the plastic is terrible. You need to use something with better heat conductive properties.

My idea is to use a cowbell (something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/131001223705). You may be able to find one that already has the shape you need.
Otherwise, a copper one is easily molded using some heat. Modifying the size would be as easy as cutting, shaping and copper soldering (if you know a plumber or have the skills). Attaching a vacuum tube to the top would be a little tricky, but not impossible.
Most importantly of all, cooling your skin/fat through the metal is easy. Attaching a peltier directly to it and a heatsink or similar to the other side of the peltier.

I am toying around with developing something like this. But first, I need to concentrate on completing the Arduino controller.
Exocetid (author)  jaykins1 year ago
The cow bell idea is excellent! Take a look here.

...then some edge trim.

...a vacuum cleaner for suction and then the tricky part, the cooling system.


I'm with you but how do you cool it???
I was checking out welding service on CL and it looks like guy who Tig weld change about $50.00 per hour.. there cant be more than 1/2 hour work per head. If the coolant rout is chosen then the trick is to make sire that it's air and water tight before leaving the shop.

I was reading about Alumioy and it's not as easy as the video suggest So I would anticipate wasting a whole day making these pieces (well worth the $50.00.
Ok... does anyone have any guesses on the dimensions of the heads??

Also, if I choose to go with the liquid cooled route how big should the channel be? I'm thinking that the 1/4 in may be too small to allow for flow and cooling..
Here’s what the web says about head size (formpeopl eonthe we:

1. Each cycle with the regular size treatment head can treat the area of about the size of a cube of butter.

2. The large treatment head treats 2.5 times as much volume in the same amount of time as the regular size treatment head.

3. The large (8) is actually 2.5 times the size of the smaller applicator (6).


So If they are referencing the Elgen butter standard the the #6 applicator is 1.25 x 4.75 inches. So the bigger head is 3.125 x 11.8
Try as i might I could not find 1/2x4in rectangular tubing. So now I'm off to my fallback plan, which is to make the Head out of Flatstock (aluminum).
I wound a welder guy on Cl that will weld for 35 per hour.
My plan is to wrap copper tubing around the head. Peltier place cound be used too.

here's some picks of my mockup.
IMG_0662.JPGIMG_0659.JPG
Exocetid (author)  Jumprocks1 year ago
Try here for square and rectangular tubing.
Exocetid, I checked it out and he problem is that when you get into the bigger stock only comes in the wider dimensions. I tied with using 3 inch pieces but the welding cost would skyrocket (with no process of Success). So now I'm leaning toward the welded play design with either copper coils of Cooling plates attached.
Based on my vast amount of testing I'l finding that proto-1 is too big.. Last night I simply squeezed my belly fat figured out that the new dimensions should be.. the with should be about the with of a stick of butter 1/14 to 1 1/2 and the length should be about 8-9 inches.. using something the size of proto-1 would mean you would need a very large vacuum and never mind the damage you would do to yourself.
I'm toying around with a metal solution too but I'm worried that the seam will not be smooth and cut into the skin. so a question have is how cold does the slurry have to be to overcome the the inefficiency of the plastic?

I have never played with Petier plate so I'm considering the Ice/surry as the cooling source, now I'm not sure that it will l get cold enough. this site says that using CaCl2 makes the slurry colder (I assume that it's Ice melt you find at home depot). http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_does_rock_salt_make_ice_colder

I don't have the Skill or the machines (metal press CNC) but to me the correct way to do this is carve of molds a billet and press one.

I've got other projects this weekend but next weekend I'll do some experiments.
I guess what I'm trying to do is mimic the dimensions of the head unit (thinking it’s the shape that it is for a reason;. . As I remember the unit on the zetliq was made of plastic (it could have been plastic covered stainless it something like that.

I’ve attached what I’m thinking of for a head unit. It’s basically an Vacuum formed Plexiglas innards with a copper plate and copper tubing wrapped in thin insulation. I’m thinking that if the outside is insulated then the clod has nowhere to go but inside the unit..

Note: For aesthetics the unit can be covered with a Vinyl or another piece Plexiglas; As I remember it the head unit was good sized and heavy)

(note : I se e you’re working on andruno, do you have SW skills??)
head unit.jpg
What about 1/4 x 2in rectangular aluminum tubing. I'm pretty sure that the bend radius is a bit tight but the corners can be cut in 45 degree angels and welded.

Also a plate wound need to be welded to the top create a seal for the vacuum. All the seams can be ground down sanded smooth.

This would result in a 1/4 in (could be other sizes too) chamber that can be filled with cooling liquid. In/Out nipples would have to be added. I would imagine that the direction of the flow would need to change every few minutes to insure even cooling.

To get this built you can go to metal shop (expensive or maybe the VoC-Tech or for you real DIYers there’s a product called Alumaloy; you’re supposed to be able to weld aluminum with a propane torch.. see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ3uMVkZ2Lc

The rods cost about $10 on ebay and I think they have it at harbor freight too.

If this stuff really works then it would only take a couple of hours to build a head. they would be relatively light, simple construction and you can quickly make many size head for the belly, love handles, thighs, bingo-wings, etc).

I was hooked on Plexiglas with I first started this tread, but I may experiment aluminum tubing next week. This way I don’t have to bother with Heat transfer testing.

Joe
Jumprocks1 year ago
Vacuum Head unit:
It seem like all the discussions regarding vacuum heads revolve around marrying gel packs to some sort of suction device.

1. Is it necessary to use gelpack?
2. Can the same Cold temps be generated with an ice/salt slurry solution?

If # 2 is yes, then Does me make sense to Use a stainless steel funnel as the head unit (you can make it oblong to mimic the brick look of the Zeltiq unit))

Instead of Gel packs, Copper Tubing is tightly wrapped on the outside of the funnel (spot solder the tubes so the keep their shape) and use some Epoxy to keep everything together.) Cosmetically you can use a Funnel one size bigger to cover the tubing clad exterior and be creative with jb weld or something to secure everything down.

This will result in an extremely air tight unit with a very smooth interior surface. Body fat should easily slide into it. (Now the Sheet with the Gel makes sense; it’s a conductor and lubricant). Some sort of stop/insert has to be made for the small end of the funnel so that the flesh does not get squeezed/pinched. The shape of the tapered funnel nipple allows for the sliding on of the vacuum hose

The key here is if the Slurry gets cold enough and the Cold transfers from the reservoir, to the copper coil then to the funnel and the Skin. OF the ice-slurry does not generate enough cold then another source has to be found.

I would imagine that the slurry would have to alternate Flow to insure even cooling..

Any thoughts on this??

Joe
Aluminium welding requires some serious skills. Ive got a Mig/Arc/Tig welder but I cant do aluminium, that requires a DC TIG which mine isnt. Its quite tricky and more of an art form, so be sure to source a good welder.

Personally, I think using a slurry solution is not needed (and likely very difficult to control and the lag between temperature adjustments is quite large, when compared to the adjustments you can make using a Peltier). A copper cowbell would work nicely with peltiers. Copper is a great thermal conductor and its easy to work with in you garage. No special components needed (unless you are soldering it, and even that isnt too bad).
dmydlack1 year ago
There are a few systems here that I am working out:

1. Precise cooling

Temperature must be very precisely controlled and maintained to be effective and to prevent freezer burn and frostbite. The source of coolant must be continuous, fast flowing and of enough mass/quantity to maintain constant, steady cooling: water with 33% food-grade propylene glycol pumped at a good rate.

I am attempting to use a small dorm freezer/refrigerator as a ready cooling apparatus. A closed reservoir is installed inside the freezer. Flexible tubing is installed coming in and going out through a notch in the closed door gasket. The outgoing tube feeds what I am calling the Applicator. The incoming tube comes from the Applicator and connects to a 1/2 hp pass through pump and then into the freezer. The incoming and outgoing tubes are bound together and thermally insulated.

A precise digital freezer thermometer has its sensor located on the Applicator and controls the power to the freezer.

2. The Applicator
The Applicator receives the tubed coolant, snakes it through a pair of manifolds mostly constructed of inexpensive CPVC parts but with copper sections for cold temperature conduction surfaces. Tubing returns the coolant drawn by the pump back into the freezer.

The precise digital freezer thermometer sensor is inserted into the stream of coolant at the Applicator for the most accurate temperature reading.

The Applicator transfers through conduction the cold temperature from the copper tubing sections to copper contact plates (the actual working surface.)

The manifolds and copper conduction tubes and plates are all housed in an insulated cowling outfitted with a hose attached to a continuous vacuum source.

The pump and freezer would be turned on and allowed to get to working temperature. Once reached, the Applicator would be applied.

Questions:

1. Will a cheap dorm freezer/refrigerator get the coolant cold enough and hold it to exact temperature?

2. Can enough air be purged from the tubing/reservoir/pump/applicator chain so pump does not cavitate?

3. Will water/propylene glycol mix expand considerably so that some sort of expansion tank needs to be installed in the chain?

4. Does the Applicator need to have adjustable "jaws" to fit varying fat folds? Also, would an Applicator need to be designed with deeper concavity for hips and a different Applicator with a shallower concavity for bellies?
1. I would imagine the small fridge has enough capacity to remove the heat picked up in the applicator and lines, but transferring the heat into the cold area of the fridge might be a challenge. Try to have metal to metal contact between the evaporator and coils of your coolant (not metal to air). As far as holding it to the exact temperature, the fridge thermostat will probably have a 5-10F swing.

2. Shouldn't be a problem. Install a bleeder valve, or crack a fitting.

3. I would add a swirl pot just in case (do a google search if you're not familiar)

4. Yes, if you want to treat different areas. Not sure what you mean by concavity.
Exocetid (author)  dmydlack1 year ago
1. This can be calculated. You may find the formulas on ASHRAE sites.

2. I frankly don't see this as a problem. You may want to have the applicator always higher than the pump, that way the pump is a sump and any trapped air would be up in the applicator. You could also install a continuous air bleed valve and sump.

3. Again, calculable.

4. Yes, adjustable jaws would give greater flexibility. I think the sky is the limit on the applicator. Certainly different body parts would profit from different applicator schemes.
orksecurity4 years ago
The fact that something is expensive doesn't mean it works. Consider this a scoff.

Just be careful not to hurt yourself.
Exocetid (author)  orksecurity3 years ago
No, that was not why I mentioned the cost. The research is already there that says it works. It just amazes me that a chilled clamp can be used to make so much money.
Uhm... the claims are there which say it works. Have they been independently confirmed? If not, the research is questionable at best.

If this really was proven, don't you think chilled clamps would be all over TV for $39.95 plus shipping, given the thousands of ineffective products sold that way? Or at the very least offered as a cheap course of treatment in every clinic which could get a nurse with just enough certification to administer it? The very fact that it isn't widely well known and publicized is itself strong evidence that it's unproven at best and almost certainly bogus.

The high price just means the scammers are trying to make their money fast from a few rich suckers before they're discredited and have to go into hiding.

If you're determined to believe, this won't dissuade you. But know what you're walking into. And remember that if anything has enough effect on the body to do something useful, it almost certainly has the potential for serious side effects which may not show up until it's too late to prevent them. Do you REALLY want to be the one who proves that this eventually causes cancer?
Zeltiq holds the exclusive rights to cryolipolysis, and I imagine they enforce it. They're not going to let anybody sell anything that resembles a cryolipolysis device. Also, to keep the FDA on their side, they say a trained physician has to administer the procedure.

We all know the risks trying this ourselves, and it is pretty crazy. But people will do crazy things to look good!
mrsbeans2 years ago
I tried the home version from the months of Sept. thru Oct. last year. Several body areas were treated repeatedly, and this was my resut- the only area where I noticed fat reduction was in my lower abs. I think it is because the skin is so thin there due to to all the stretchmarks of childbearing. (Finally a positive side to stretch marks!)

I used homemade freezer packs (rubbing alcohol and water) inside my "freezing chamber" (a facet cover), and attached it to a vacuum. I can add pics of my contraption if anyone is interested.

When the fat wasn't budging in most areas, I experimented with longer sessions and lower temps... and now I have discolored skin splotches to show for it... which was really fun when my dermatologist noticed!



Exocetid (author)  mrsbeans2 years ago
I'd like to see pictures of your device--sounds clever.

I don't think there is any question about this working (cryolipolysis), but the devil is in the details. Two facts are evident. One is that the process of getting the chilling effect to the fat is not easy and two, the localization of the effect can lead to spotty results. Of course, if you go to a physician and have it done, they are going to give you the best, most consistent result (presuming that they are competent), but it will cost you in the neighborhood of $500 per session.

Here's what I did~ I made a hole in the top of the faucet cover, and attached the hose (which I found at the pool section of a hardware store) with caulk and duct tape. Then I attached the hose to my central vac. It wasn't an airtight fit, so you can see that more duct tape was the solution.

In the middle pic you can see the thermometer that I use. It was surprisingly hard to find one with a wire probe, but I did find it through Ebay (key word to search for is "K type").

Also in the middle pic you'll see a white thing twisted kind of like a figure 8 and secured with... you guessed it... duct tape. This is the outside rim of a margarine container, and it is used to hold the two ice packs apart and to keep them from getting suctioned up.

I actually got all these ideas from a website I found last year, which no longer exists.
026.JPG028.JPG030.JPG
Exocetid (author)  mrsbeans2 years ago
This is brilliant. You should post an Instructable.

The only improvement I could see would be a bracket fitted up into the hose bib protector that would hold the cool packs in place. The vacuum would then pull the skin up between them.

You could also epoxy two large plastic nuts on the outside of the protector and then screw large plastic screws to push the two cool packs tighter against the skin.

Great job!
Cryolipolysis Head.jpg
Those are good ideas for improvement! I will think about posting an Instructable. :)

I am curious, have you noticed any fat reduction using the methods you have tried? It looks like you began experimenting with this March of last year.

Thanks!
Exocetid (author)  mrsbeans2 years ago
I haven't done anything except float the question. You are further ahead than anyone else in the DIY cryolipolysis movement.

...so many projects, so little time.
wintermelon3 years ago
From and engineering perspective I wouldn't give up on the peltiers, Exocited, but I would be very, very careful. The device I constructed happens to be similar to what you outlined in your original post: hand clamp, a peltier on each side which are thermal-epoxy-bonded to water blocks. A fountain pump circulates water from a chilled bucket. I have two industrial thermal controllers with thermocouples running the peltiers closed-loop and the system holds +/- a few tenths of a degree C. Running two 200W peltiers down to the proper operating temperature (0C to say -3C or lower) is well within the capability of this kind of system.

Take the warnings to heart: skin discoloration is definitely possible, especially at temperatures around -5C, and while it has lessened I do not know if it will ever completely go away. With just a hand clamp the force is not well controlled so repeatability is a real concern. This could well be very, very dangerous and I would not recommend this to anyone. I have only used this for a couple of months and for maybe 10 treatments of 20-60 minutes so the long term effects are also unclear. The fat loosens up and there is very slight visual reduction. I would love to hear more about blinkstreet's experience, which sounds more dramatic.
Wintermelon, It's great to hear from someone else who is trying this! My experiences are not more dramatic, I just write that way. If you have only been doing this for two months, then you have not seen the complete effect yet. It takes about four months or so. There is no way to hurry it along. Repeated treatments on the same area are not, as far as I know, more effective than one good one. The reason for this is that effective cooling can only penetrate a certain amount below the skin. When the fat cells have been damaged, they are scheduled for apoptosis, but that clean-up process takes the body time. The single thing you could do to make the process more effective is to shake and vibrate the fatty area once it is cooled to about -3C. Keep it at that temperature for about half an hour and repeat the shaking every few minutes. The "Z" has a vibration phase part-way through the cooling process that does something like this, I understand. This editor is not playing nice with my mobile device. Sorry for the gobbldeygook at the end.nd. hrough
Im trying it with gel packs too. I bought a few from CVS that have a protective cloth sleeve which should protect my skin. I've been toying with it for a day or two now. I have tried holding the gell pack on the target area, pinching up a fold, and using a clamp from Home depot to hold the gel pack in place. I have only done it for 15 min at a time so far...still a little hesitant, but when I take it off I feel the frozen block of fat in there. kinda crazy. are you using something to pinch the skin or laying the gel pack flat on the targeted area? are you getting it to freeze solid? Im nervous about freezing something under the fat...muscle ...intestines... have you noticed positive results yet? thanks!
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