Carbonation and it's relationship with oxygen

I have 2 random and somewhat contradicting questions:

Can oxygen cause carbonation in liquid?
Does oxygen decrease carbonation in liquids that are already carbonated? (soda)

The more details, the better :)

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Somewhere on this internet there's a table, or a set of graphs, or some numbers or something, comparing the solubility of common gasses in water... Oh here it is:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility...

Anyway, as you can see from these graphs, CO2 is a lot more soluble in water than O2, by a factor of about 36, at 20 C. That's from dividing 1.6g CO2/kg water, by 0.45 g O2/kg water. The ratio is a little different when you do it by mol/liter. Then I think the ratio comes out to something like CO2 being 48 times more soluble in water.

I think the reason why soda effervesces, er makes bubbles, is because it is water supersaturated

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersaturation

with CO2. That is to say the CO2 was dissolved in the water at a higher pressure, or a lower temperature, but now the conditions have changed; e.g. removing the cap from the bottle allows the pressure above the solution to drop, and now the CO2 wants to come out of solution.

I guess maybe you could supersaturate water with oxygen. For example, increasing the pressure of an oxygen containing gas, like air, above some water, all in a sealed bottle. But I don't know if the de-gassing part, when you take the cap off, if it is going to be as dramatic, as it is with CO2.

You know, from the graphs I linkek to at EngineeringToolbox, for O2 the actual molar concentration of gas in the water is only going to be like 1/50th what it would be for CO2.

tb24 (author)  Jack A Lopez2 years ago

Basically, I was curious if 1. High amounts of oxygen in liquid would cause carbonation or some other effect in liquid 2. If oxygen is the main factor that causes the loss of carbonation in liquids such as soda

I'll answer (2) first. Loss of carbonation, from an open bottle of soda, is NOT caused by the presence of oxygen. It is caused by the reduced pressure from gas (any kind of gas) above the soda.

Regarding (1), "High amounts of oxygen in liquid would cause carbonation or some other effect in liquid" I think the words {carbonate,carbonated, carbonation}, when used with water, simply refer to a supersaturated solution of CO2 in water.

I am guessing it is possible to make supersaturated solutions of other kinds of gasses in water. For example dissolving large amounts of oxygen in water.

Regarding language, it is somewhat confusing to say you want to carbonate water, but with a gas other than CO2; e.g. "I want to carbonate this water with nitrogen". The language is confusing because "carbonate" kind of means "put CO2 into"

It is kind of like saying,

"I butter(v.) my toast with mayonnaise, instead of with butter(n.)."

Or

"I water(v.) my plants with urine, instead of with water(n.)."

"What? Gloves? I don't call them 'gloves'. These are my hand-shoes. They're like shoes, only they protect my hands, instead of my feet. So they're called hand-shoes. I can't believe you've never heard of hand-shoes!?"

And I suppose analogy-based language like that kind of make sense.

BTW, there is such a thing as "oxygenated water" meaning "water with oxygen dissolved in it". I mean I have heard, or read, that phrase before, probably in relation to home aqauriums; i.e. the bubbler "oxygenates" the water, so your goldfish can keep from dying. Probably there also exists "nitrogenated water" meaning "water with nitrogen dissolved in it", and also "ammoniated water", "hydrogen-sulfide-ated water", etc.

However, I think the least ambiguous, most clear, way to say you want to dissolve some particular gas in water, is to simply use the words for solutions, words like "solvent", "solute", "dissolve", "saturated", "supersaturated". E.g. "I want to dissolve oxygen in water. I want to make a saturated solution of oxygen in water. I want to make a supersaturated solution of oxygen in water."

Anyway, that concludes the grammar lesson. I think the Wikipedia articles for Solution, and Supersaturation,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersaturation

do a decent job of explaining gasses dissolved in water The article on Supersaturation even mentions carbonated water as an example.

Carbonation is carbon dioxide being absorbed by a liquid while under pressure. Adding air or oxygen doesn't release the carbon so much as having available space for the CO2 to escape into. In essence adding air is adding space for the CO2 to move to from the liquid. Every time you open a bottle you release some of the CO2 that has dissipate into the open air space of the bottle. Upon closing the bottle there is now air space for more CO2 to dissipate into. Eventually leading to flat soda. In the 90's a company was marketing a collapsible soda bottle to allow you to make the bottle smaller as you drink it down reducing the space for the CO2 to dissipate into. Other devices over the years have used modified caps that allow you to pressurize the bottle after opening to prevent the CO2 from being able to dissipate out of the fluid. Thus allowing the carbonation to last longer.

Just pretend you are a UK citizen and in addition warm whiskey without rocks you include flat pop as your cultural favorites ;-)

Kiteman2 years ago

Are you working on making drinks fizzy with oxygen instead of carbon dioxide?

Vyger2 years ago

Carbonation is a result of CO2 (carbon dioxide) being added to a liquid, usually a mix of water and a sweetener. CO2 is a stable compound and not easily broken apart. You can't add another oxygen to it just by introducing free oxygen into the mix.

So, No oxygen does not cause carbonation, and no adding it to a carbonated liquid will not increase or decrese the carbonation.

Carbonation in liquids is usually either from tanks of carbon dioxide shot into liquids and trapped in so it dissolves into the liquid or it can occur naturally from yeast fermentation. I believe the yeast 'breathe' oxygen and 'exhale' carbon dioxide, though they do not have lungs. Thats all I know.

Carbonation in liquids is usually either from tanks of carbon dioxide shot into liquids and trapped in so it dissolves into the liquid or it can occur naturally from yeast fermentation. I believe the yeast 'breathe' oxygen and 'exhale' carbon dioxide, though they do not have lungs. Thats all I know.