avcde

Thanks for picking mine as "Best Answer." :) (And not to worry: there are countless numbers of times that I've wound up feeling stupid beyond belieg. :) Not knowing exactly what the matter was, I jumped to the really big things: as I see it, the only truly permanent things, the only things you can never undo once they've been done, are ending life and beginning it. You can't un-kill yourself, and giving birth is something you can't take back. (I guess that's the basis of why I believe so strongly that life matters very much: death is the only thing I know of that is truly permanent; and the inception of life, whether it's as momentous as a new baby or as tiny as a sprouted seed, is the only thing I can't imagine ever being explained or understood.) Everything else a person might do can be eventually be undone, learned to live with, or overcome - but often not very easily. Just because the matter at hand with your friend is not one of the super-big issues doesn't mean it's not important. Taking drugs? Sex outside of marriage? Even something as small-seeming as getting her ears pierced? ...Those are all important matters/issues/decisions, and have effects and risks of effects that can really screw a person's life up for a very long time: My BF kicked heroin 25 years ago, and he tells me not a day goes by that he doesn't crave the sweet soft sensory bliss of getting high - and reject the nerve-screaming-painful sickness of coming down. I can tell you that extra-marital sex places you at risk for AIDS, other STD's, and pregnancy - and I can personally promise you that it will break your heart sooner or later, maybe not with every partner you chose but pretty damned near. And my mother, while she loves me absolutely and unconditionally, is never going to completely forgive me for having mutilated my earlobes that way. So don't let my talk about the super-big things make you think that whatever it is is too small a thing to worry about. If you'd like to say more about what's going on, feel free either to further comment here, or PM me if you like.

...then they say why is the same "god" watching people die all the time

???

What Steve might have meant is the old question about how a loving & all-powerful God can co-exist with a world full of death and murder and rape and pain and genocide and holocausts and people who litter in the public street.

If God existed and were any sort of a decent kind of deity, He'd certainly want to put a stop to all that, right? And if God existed and were all-powerful, then He certainly could put a stop to it, right?

But the evidence is pretty clear that He hasn't put any sort of a stop to all the horrible nasty stuff that humans dream up to do to each other. That leads one to think that either:
1) God is not a decent and loving kind of deity, and doesn't mind all this rotten crap going on; or -
2) God is not all-powerful, but is sort some of much more limited deity; or -
3) God does not exist.

(Just for myself, me, personally - I find Option 1 utterly unpalatable; and Option 2 either pointless or extremely confusing or both; which has led my adopting Option 3 as my current working hypothesis. Like I said, I think I'm an agnostic, but I'm not really sure.)

No. Don't.

It's that sort of heavy-handed, imposing, one-size-(e.g., your size)-fits-all religiousity that gives otherwise-decent Christians a bad name. Too much of that and you won't be able to take someone like me to church unless you drag them in there by brute force.

Mmm - point out that they already know God in some way they just don't realise it. So you can say e.g. - you know what's right & wrong, that's God telling you like the rest of us. Watched all the time sounds threatening / sinister (you understand that) - being there all the time is a better way of introducing these ideas?

L

You'll not "convert" them easily, but a soft approach that gets them thinking about stuff can help a person (whether they see it in exactly the same way as you or not). L

Okay, fair enough. The original outline seemed much more religious in its aim. Truth is, it still does but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for a moment. I understand the (basic) dilemma of helping a friend who's sliding away, perhaps down a path you feel is destructive, but that's very tough situation. In my age group we've dealt with some pretty tricky issues, be it drugs or sex at 12-13 or criminal behavior, depression, etc. Things were, shall I say, messy, in my neck of the woods when I was younger. Very, very messy... However...I do not believe that you are going to reach her by using a religious tactic. If she is agnostic or atheistic or from a faith that has contrary views on certain subject, that will inevitably alienate her even more, so in fact, I would strongly urge you to cease with the religiocity with haste, or you'll make things even worse. And in the long run, her decisions are hers. They aren't yours to make. You can only choose for yourself. For instance, if were bandying around about abortion,well, that simply isn't your decision. If it's about whether she will or won't be having sex, that is not your decision, it's hers. If she's breaking the law, committing violent acts, taking hard rugs (heroin, cocaine, Meth), well the call is yours. You can take the social hit and "narc ", if you feel the need...that's your call, but in the end it's her decision as to whether she will engage in those activities. I can't advise you either way on topics like that...It's simply not my place, and frankly I do not have intimacy with your life and hers to make proper judgment. What I can say is that if she does not share your religious views, if you keep trying to reach her by spouting "the word of the lord", y'ain't gonna get anywhere but hate. And I say this not as either an agnostic or atheist, but as an independent believer, a non affiliate with any church, temple, synagogue, or other religious institution, and for good reason, though I'll "be nice" and not spell out my differences with the institutions (I attended most of the major Protestant denominationals, Roman Catholic, Mormon, and Synagogue at my own discretion as a youth, and the one fundamental thing I learned they had in common was and innate bigotry against other religions) I think you need to spell the situation out in detail to a youth counselor WITHOUT IDENTIFYING YOUR FRIEND, and get their advise. Honestly, this isn't the place for revealing intimate details about anyone's life, whether hers or yours. Not your pastor, not your priest, not your nun, not your minister, not your rabbi, not your church. She is not religious and as such is not under their thumbrella. If you Honestly, really, truly in actuality are her friend, you'll respect that distinction.

I vote yours the best answer. (not that my opinion matters or anything...lol)

Agreed.

Like it or not, agnosticism and atheism are valid religious beliefs. You have no more chance of talking him out of his understanding of the universe than he has of talking you out of yours. If you try to do so he's likely to react as you would react should he try to convince you that *your* beliefs are wrong.

(I'm a strong agnostic theist myself. I don't know, I don't think anyone else knows, I can't imagine any argument or evidence that would convince me, and I can't accept the concept that a deity small enough that our religious beliefs matter to him/her/it. "Be kind to each other; the rest is commentary.")

Typo -- "concept that" should have been "concept of". Sorry.