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Compressing hydrogen?

I have a hydrogen generator and use the gas as i make it at the moment. I want to try compressing it, the issue is the gas is really a combination of pure oxygen and hydrogen in the perfect explosive mix. If i have flame aresters on all my pipes and have it well earthed as well as not using steel parts in the compressor so there is no chance of static or sparks from steel, will it be relatively safe to try compressing this into a cylinder? or am i insane to try this???

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Hello Ben!   For a while now I have had an untested idea regarding a way to separate hydrogen from a mixture of hydrogen and other gasses, and since you seem to be interested in hydrogen, I thought I would tell you all about it.  Lucky for you to be on the receiving end of such wisdom, right?
;-)

This idea is based on the observation that hydrogen seems to diffuse through the skin of a latex balloon faster than other gasses.  Well, that's not really an observation, not a direct one, since no one has ever seen those tiny little molecules moving through the skin of the balloon, from inside the balloon to outside the balloon. 

Rather this is the story that is told to explain why the H2-filled latex party balloon shrinks in size over several hours.  You know, this big balloon starts out all big and pretty and stuck to the ceiling, but then it inevitably ends up shrunken, and shriveled,  and floating towards the floor.

According to the story, H2 molecules are just so tiny, and also very fast-moving because they have small mass, that they can diffuse through barriers much faster than other gasses.

Anyway, the idea is that one could maybe build a plumbing fitting that has part, or all, of a stretched latex balloon inside it, and that piece of latex could act as a sieve for hydrogen molecules.

I read somewhere else, a thin piece of palladium metal,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladium
can be used for this purpose, since it dissolves hydrogen but blocks other gasses.

However latex balloons are much cheaper than palladium metal.
;-)

ummm, I thought party balloons were filled with Helium, not Hydrogen

It really depends on the party. Some people like to party with hydrogen.

It is also possible to fill balloons with air, or exhaled breath, but the balloons are much less buoyant that way.

Not sure how your HHO generator is setup but keep something in mind with electrolysis.
I am not sure the polarity here but in electrolysis of water the hydrogen comes off one pole and the oxygen off the other.

so if you separate the space the gas bubbles rise up into then you will get a different gas off the (-) than you do off the (+).

Instead of "pump compressing" let your gas generator do it.
Build your gas generator to handle 200 PSI with a pressure relief valve at around 100PSI for safety.
Hook it to your tank. Let the gas pressure build with the Hydrogen building up in the tank. When it reaches 100 PSI (or your desired pressure) close the tank off and you have your pressurized gas.
I have not done this but I believe it should work.
Be safe.

benmurton (author)  Jack A Lopez3 years ago
This is a very good idea, and maybe a great way of getting a high purity of hydrogen gas! At least someone is thinking in this world. I will have to try this soon and see if i can turn my explosions into more of a burn. Thing about palladium is quite interesting, a pity it isnt easy to come by.

Thanks :)
Sounds like a blast.
Do you know how a diesel engine works.
Take a combustible mix and compress it and boom the ambient heat in the gas itself is the spark.
Take the oxygen out, dissipate the ambient heat with a condenser and you can compress the hydrogen leave the oxygen in and boom.
Joe

slight correction on your explanation of a diesel engine, only air is compressed initially and then fuel is injected under extreme pressure at 20 degrees before top dead centre.

I was talking about his gas mix going boom but you are right the way I said it can be confused.

MarloS11 year ago

Not sure how your HHO generator is setup but keep something in mind with electrolysis.
I am not sure the polarity here but in electrolysis of water the hydrogen comes off one pole and the oxygen off the other.

so if you separate the space the gas bubbles rise up into then you will get a different gas off the (-) than you do off the (+).

Instead of "pump compressing" let your gas generator do it.
Build your gas generator to handle 200 PSI with a pressure relief valve at around 100PSI for safety.
Hook it to your tank. Let the gas pressure build with the Hydrogen building up in the tank. When it reaches 100 PSI (or your desired pressure) close the tank off and you have your pressurized gas.
I have not done this but I believe it should work.
Be safe.

B2ct MarloS123 days ago

Combustion (explosion) of hydrogen in air might
occur at volume fractions of 4%-77%, with as little energy as 0.02 [mJ] from
the ignition source (comparable with a friction induced discharge from
clothing).

When water is split, the mixture of both gasses is highly explosive. Compressing it as 'HHO' is not a good idea. What might be a better idea is splitting the gasses before compressing. Most advanced alkaline electrolysers have a diaphragm between the anode and cathode, should not be that hard to make. Discard the oxygen and compress the hydrogen.

Although you are right about the pressure build-up, this process will only reach certain pressures depending on your electroliser materials and construction. There is a danger of failure of course, but there is also an equilibrium between production and pressurisation. Compressing externally is much safer and does not compromise production rate. For compression a scrap diaphragm compressor from a fridge might do (depends on desired pressure ofcourse).

VaughnJ18 months ago

Get rid of this American-promoted HHO garbage for starters.

Start producing hydrogen instead, air is all around you.

Do not store a fuel carrier and an oxidant in the same tank.

Find a compressor with good quality seals that can do Helium. Hydrogen naturally forms diatomic molecules just like Oxygen and Helium, so it's not as tiny as people make out. Use dense materials to prevent diffusion.

High pressure electrolysis is insanely dangerous; if anyone recommends it, do not follow their advice.

BrandonC22 years ago

The problem starts with the purity of the hydrogen gas. If it is 96% pure then it can be compressed somewhat. When you compress it though it becomes very cold, this can cause the fittings in the tanks to crack, thus leaks. Not to mention that hydrogen boils at like negative 439 degrees. I've been trying to crack this myself but unless you live on Pluto(cold) it is very dangerous. I can't figure though, that i know some places compress it and sell it to people with a license to use it.

The better way to do this is to maybe have a constant energy source like solar or wind to store the energy in batteries for days that you have little of either and then you can make it off the battery. I have been toying with the idea of heating my house with it but i haven't quite figured out how to convert it to transfer the heat to coils or something.

Try passing the hydrogen through a CAT converter off a car... The cleaner the bester... As the HHO passes through the converter it will create H2O And Heat ... Its Also Ment To Purify the HO in the process

VaughnJ1 JesseM108 months ago

I know this site has a 'be nice' policy but you need to refrain from offering advice until you understand the basics of practically everything you just said.

Start by Googling what catalytic conversion of a gas actually does and why automobile manufacturers are legally bound to do it, then the chemical created when hydrogen reacts with oxygen.

ToniD109 months ago

Lets not forget that Hydrogen, even though an explosive gas, requires to be in an exacting amount before it will explode when in the presence of air / oxygen. Military requirements for instance regarding the charging rooms of power plants that require battery back ups have an explosive meter which reads between 2% and 4% hydrogen concentration. So there is a lower explosive limit and a higher explosive limit. Without the right concentration of hydrogen, there's no explosion, but it is always good to fall on the side of caution

VaughnJ1 ToniD108 months ago

Your statement "Hydrogen, even though an explosive gas, requires to be in an exacting amount before it will explode when in the presence of air" is incorrect.

A carburetor is designed for delivering a correct fuel to air ratio. The beauty of a hydrogen fueled combustion engine is that the volume of hydrogen can be from 5-95%, thus eliminating the need for a carburetor entirely.

"Military requirements for instance regarding the charging rooms of power plants that require battery back ups have an explosive meter which reads between 2% and 4% hydrogen concentration."

This is an untruth based on the above rebuttle, but moreso; if you somehow had access to that information, and indeed had ever spent any time at all on any military installation, you would know that what you just posted is illegal.

Please fact-check what you post.

MarloS11 year ago

I made the following comment a few days ago and want to expand on my comment if anyone is reading it.

In the electrolysis of water the (+) pole is the Anode and it gives off Oxygen.
The (-) pole is the cathode it gives off the beloved Hydrogen.

Turning a liquid to a gas in a sealed container creates pressure.
You don't need to have a compressor. But make sure you have safety relief valves in place to keep the whole thing from blowing up.

Kiteman3 years ago
Er, I'd say "insane".

Vyger3 years ago
your basically making a bomb.
Guess.