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Ok, found a report on Hydrogen, and its myths...
You should read this report, it demistifies the fears of hydrogen. For me, the issue is to find a compressor to compress hydrogen, this is now the challenge.
The report is from Rocky Mountain Institute.
From the previous link:
"Myth #7 - we lack a safe and affortable way to store hydrogen in cars.
This problem was solved several years ago. Such firms as Quantum (partly own by GM) and Dynatek now sell filament-wound carbon-fiber tank lined with an aluminized polyester bladder instead of the TRADITIONAL SOLID METAL LINER."
Traditional... This means hydrogen is being compressed in metal tanks...
Also, if you look at this hydrogen house project (link above), you will find the guy has a massive amount of steel tanks to store his hydrogen reserves...
Suppose I can provide a vacuumed propane cylinder, can you explain to me why I can not just keep pumping the hydrogen gas into the cylinder until it reaches the pressure I want?
There is no reason you couldn't. You just wouldn't be able to store much.
The propane tank won't reach a very high psi. You may only be able to store half a liter or less of compressed hydrogen in that amount of space.
Hydrogen requires super high compression to store efficiently in gas form.
That is why the use of a metal hydride is mentioned so you can store vast amounts in a small space then chemically release the hydrogen when needed, by releasing into a secondary holding container to be used on demand.
Google "Norway Hydrogen Highway" and "Scandinavian hydrogen highway partnership" to see what the rest of the world is actually "doing", not just fear-mongering about. Norway has legislated out all gasoline, diesel & hybrid autos by the year 2025. Refueling stations already in use afford H2 refueling within 3 minutes employing high-pressure hydrogen gas.
The exaggerated fear of hydrogen gas storage and "embrittlement" is epidemically rampant! Purified hydrogen gas >99.5% is compressed well above 200 bar/~3000 psi and delivered in STEEL WELDING TANKS for everyday use from every major gas welding supplier known. I've had a steel cylinder sitting in my shop for almost 2 years with 1600 psi remaining and UNCHANGED.
Employed internationally offshore on rigs, here's a standard rack of STEEL H2 gas bottles compressed at 200 bar:
ok, this is getting more interesting... Materials to store hydrogen:
Thank you for the insight. I want to collect metal hydride from NIMH batteries as you suggested to put in Cylinder to store Hydrogen gas. but why I cant use the extracted metal hydride as it is? Can you please guide me and explain why I should add water to it and then dry it? Will it not react with water and become obsolete? Many thanks John
More digging on this topic...
I was watching a car tv show, and they talked about the Toyota mirai which runs on hydrogen using a fuel cell... I looked at their system and they do not appear to use hydrides, they are using a HIGH PRESSURE composite tank!!
Also, I remembered this project in Island where they have hydrogen stations performing electrolysis, and running different car brands running on hydrogen.
Make your own conclusions.
Here is a book I found, talking about magnets and their hydrogen absorbtion phenomena.
"Intelligent Application in Material World Select Papers from IPMM-2001"
This is for educational purpose only.
I have been looking at this for a little while now, and digging into metal hydrides.
I read the rare earth magnets use metal hydride, and I was wodnering if they could be used to store hydrogen...
Here is what I found:
I was thinking of running an engine with pure hydrogen, not hho. HHO does not seem sufficiently potent to run the engine.
The issue is how to store the hydrogen, or to put it in the bottle...
I have also seen Bob Lazar running his Corvette on Hydrogen, however he uses metal hydrites to store the hydrogen into some tanks, which seems to be heated when the hydrogen needs to be used.
Here is a good link on hydrogen, demystifying it.
Perhaps you need to use a hydrogen generator "on demand", which for instance use aluminium, KOH, and water (or other types of alloys and water). This will produce a good amount of hydrogen which can be used instantly. Some are running engines with this technique (hydrolysis).
Storage of hydrogen in bottles is dangerous. However storage of H2 in solid array is stable and safe. I however doubt you have the means to do so. Metal hydride storage of hydrogen is very safe and stable. Even more safe than storage of petrol in your vehicle tank. There is a lot of sensationalism over hydrogen storage because of one zeplin. This isn't then. Solid State storage of hydrogen is very safe. Do not attempt liquid or compressed gas storage, it is just asking for trouble.
To store hydrogen into a cylinder tank:1. Hydrogen must be remove from all oxygen making hydrogen an inert gas form.2. Hydrogen must be liquefied at temperature of 20.28 K (−423.17 °F/−252.87°C) and maintained at this temperature so it does not turn into gas form by means of nitrogen.3. Hydrogen; maintenance of liquid state and the devices in order to do this requires an industrial MAZMAT type licensing and certification. This can only be acquired if undersigned by corporate entity with engineering degree with over-sight. Liquid hydrogen requires cryogenic storage technology such as special thermally insulated containers and requires special handling common to all cryogenic fuels. Liquid hydrogen is in all purposes considered an explosive in liquid form or gas form and certifications are not for public use.4. Hydrogen; if you do not storage H2 in liquid form, or gas form and have proper ventilation is still considered illegal for vehicular combustion volume metric efficiency usage in public highway motor applications, but currently is not enforced. As a private citizen on a public highway using water-hydrogen-cell for hydrogen+oxygen mix usage is considered an explosive do to oxygen in gas line with H2/Hydrogen. If hydrogen is introduced into combustion chamber without oxygen mixture then it is inert until contact with oxygen, therefore none explosive till that O2/Oxygen contact point of gas mixture. If hydrogen is introduced in combustion cylinder chamber as only hydrogen then it is considered legal if done by qualified professional certified by DOT/Department of Motor Vehicles, but again these laws are not in effect. Thus, do not become a poster child/adult as an example for the enforcement of these law awaiting to take effect. Therefore, do not ruin this new H2 application to further your fuel economy, please be careful and be certain hydrogen will not have any areas to pocket in engine compartment awaiting an ignition point explosive. ---Please Be Careful, and Be safe. Think of others in your science project.
can i storage on a big hard balloon and connect to a little stove heater just for a evening cooking ? last time i make hydrogen (electrolysis) i use a regular balloon for storage and i connect a firefighters like hose (smaller scale of course) and i fire up like a torch for like one minute and was fun until balloon was empty :). i guess i can do same with bigger maybe cylindrical balloon (human size could be) and cook something. sorry my bad english
This I have personally seen done. Yes, but don't expect that balloon to last more than a day.
could you clarify what you mean by "return to gas form by means of nitrogen"?
Hydrogen is NOT an inert gas, regardless of form.
You do NOT need an engineering degree to handle liquified gases, including hydrogen. (The key mistake here is "engineering degree")
Do you just make this up or are you paraphrasing (badly) some other source?
It is wise not to say "can't" in our evolving science, my friends. From the first fuel cell design in 1801 (that's 214 years ago), much of this has been considered, designed, and tested. The link above is current, and the link below shows fuel cell history.
Ahh the danger of speaking in absolutes. Here is a fellow doing it in a residential setting on a large scale - albeit at low pressure/high volume. Really gets the imagination going....
Could you store it in a a propane tank for a grill, or maybe a refrigerant tank?
Gas Cooker & Water Purifier Using Free Energy
Make Hydrogen,Oxygen And Chlorine
How to assemble a HHO Generator and why it works
DIY hydrogen generator
Make it BIG
Electrolysis Without Batteries
Collecting Hydrogen and Oxygen
Make Sulfuric Acid by Copper Sulfate Electrolysis
Splitting Water the Easy Way
The Oakland Toy Lab
The problem of green energy saving - simple DIY electrolysis
Posted:Nov 3, 2009
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