Recoil simulation! Gas single action air cylinder or extended solenoid?

OK, final question for this project! You guys on the other answer topics gave been a great help even if I haven't had time to reply yet!

One half sorted onto the other. I have a tube with a 25mm diameter about 20cm long ( I could put a smaller pipe inside this and extend it at least another 20cm) I need recoil. Not super realistic, but as heavy as possible. Budget is about 40 pounds. (Money)

My current ideas include either a 350g metal 20mm diameter by 10cm bar and a spring, being moved by a 250g solenoid with 10mm stroke, I would replace the metal solenoid bar (thing inside soldnoid) with a longer one, this will encrease stroke. Even if this did work there would be little recoil, though it is cheap and very easy. Power is a very short 12v pulse.

The alternative idea is the pneumatic one, I don't really want to do this asi need to conserve my air supply for the other part of this project. It's effectively a solenoid valve (12v pulse) and an air cylinder (homemade to conserve price) which is attached to that weight aforementioned. Power is 6bar. This should provide significant recoil but is expensive, difficult and wastes large amounts of gas.

is there a better way? Is there an electronic way that could avoid gas but still have heavy recoil and use my 12v pulse? Even if it is out of my budget, it'd be great to know. This is to simulate a backwards recoil as heavy as possible.

Final question (unless something goes wrong) I promise!  Thanks.

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iceng1 year ago

How about specifying the recoil duration in milliseconds and the peak pressure force in pounds.

That data can help to design the potential energy to kinetic energy conversion device be it incendiary, pneumatic, mechanical or electrical.

Recoil-plot1.gif
Digital Flame (author)  iceng1 year ago

2-4 pounds (peak) over (as quick as possble) maybe 250+ miliseconds?

Interestingly a rifle recoil, see above ( did you click on it ?.... you should :-)

has a minimum is 400_pounds for 10_ms....You want 4 pounds for 250ms.

Start with understanding that you must constantly accelerate your 350g metal at with a kilogram of force for 250ms for 17 cm.

F=MxA=MxV/s=MxDistance/s^2

Dist=F x Sec x Sec / M = 1 x o.25 x o.25 / o.35 = .17 meter

Which is close to your 10cm and if the force is the peak you can probably do it with a half inch stroke. This solenoid is a close at 5N = 1.1 Lb

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/171785492241?ul_noapp...

Digital Flame (author)  iceng1 year ago

Hi, I did look at your graph but I was a little shocked, I am British and not too experienced in pounds but... 400 pounds!? I am trying to replicate something like a .223 /5.56 nato (Ar15) (or possibly .45) and the recoil for .223 is consistently around 5 pounds. (for example http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm)

Unfortunately the solenoid you sent me is too large, (i have a 25mm tube) but thank you for the specifications as I now know what I am looking for. I wasn't sure about the length of recoil, so I slowed a video or a rifle shooting and measured each shot at 250ms.

I am now considering going the pneumatic route with the specifications you have provided (half an inch+ with about 10N force) by making a pvc air cylinder that will run on 6 bar, and use the 350g weight and a long and moderately strong spring.

To convert pounds to kilograms divide by 2.2 so 400 lbs => 181 Kg

Next your table gives energy in foot-pounds a measure of work while my graph shows pound/second or force per time probably measured at the projectile and not representative of the palm pressure because the gun mass absorbs the majority of the projectile (bullet) acceleration through the weapon's barrel length.

Wiki does not make me understand recoil at all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil

And again a new topic without finnishing the old ones or marking them as solved :(

Must be really hard to keep one problem in one topic....

Digital Flame (author)  Downunder35m1 year ago

Sorry, I already solved one, Ill solve the other now. Won't happen again.