Instructables

wind generator ?

has anyone had experience in using magnets to help propel a horizontal wind mill or vertical wind turbine .what I mean is putting them in a circular series where the north propel against the north creating , forcing or helping the windmill to move in a circular motion?

junkyardenergy (author) 5 years ago
come on people help me out i dont think this is too far fetched of a idea ....
Won't work. The next pole in series will oppose the forward motion (duh), such that the stable equilibrium point is to have the rotation stopped. As for far fetched, I suggest you look up "perpetual motion machine" on Wikipedia. If you don't understand why it doesn't work, you may not be qualified to be designing a wind turbine, or any other device which relies on physical law for its operation.
I imagine a timed electromagnetic force could work, but I'm not skilled in this field, ideas?
"Timed" means some device determining and applying the timing, which means consuming power in order to do that. Now you've (properly :-) escaped the realm of perpetual motion. What you propose is certainly possible! It's called a motor, not a generator, and it requires power input to operate. It does not produce power output.
Perpetual motion is unachievable so I'm not trying, I'm just saying working from the magnets idea, that's the only way it would work without canceling itself out.
Yes, you're exactly right. I think we agree on all points :-)

Just to add a bit of detail, a motor works by having a set of fixed magnet poles (two, four, or however many you want) alternating around the spindle, N-S-N-S-... A matching number of coils are arranged around those spindles, with the current flowing in opposite directions on adjacent coils, again, N-S-N-S-...

Now, start the system with the spindle magnets aligned at the coil-coil boundaries. Energize the system, and a N-coil will repel the nearby N-magnet, while simultaneously attracting the adjacent S-magnet (and similarly for the S-coil). This pulls the spindle around a bit. Since the spindle is already moving, its own inertia will cause it to "overshoot" the balance point, and end up beyond the middle of the N-coil.

Just as the N-magnet gets directly centered on the S-coil that's been attracting it, switch the direction of the current flow. Now the S-coil becomes an N-coil.
It will repel the magnet that it was previously attracting, and push it along in the same direction (since the spindle has overshot the center point).

If you get the timing just right, and keep switching the the coil currents, you can keep the spindle going around and around. You are feeding in energy in the form of electric current, so this is not perpetual motion.

In most modern electric motors, the coils are actually on the spindle, and there is a system of sliding contacts that automatically do the current-reversal as the system spins. I described a different system, just because it's easier to picture what's happening.
junkyardenergy (author)  kelseymh5 years ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adfgMWQB_6o

you seem to be a very smart person ,its to bad your locked up in a box and bound by the laws of physics . I have found the answers that I have been looking for ,thanks for all your optimism...
junkyardenergy out
Good for you. When you get your system working, be sure to carefully document all of your energy inputs (including any wall power you use to power your magnets), and measure your energy output. Let us know the result!
junkyardenergy (author)  kelseymh5 years ago
did you watch the you tube link on the last reply?
Yes. There's no useful technical information, nor is there any way to tell what's going on behind the scenes. They make claims without providing supporting evidence other than their own sayso.
Not just that, where is the FORCE coming from. Its a perpetual motion machine. You can't win, you can only lose, you can't breakeven. Steve
The force would be coming from the time-varying current in coils which generate a magnetic field which pulls the spindle around. Like I said (and like you already know, Steve, this is for other readers), that's what we call a motor.
Which is almost the exact opposite of a generator.
junkyardenergy (author)  Kryptonite5 years ago
now we are climbing out of the box ,thanks for your reply
Saw the link to the YouTube thing but even using it on a proxy for school doesn't work; needs latest flash player. : [
By the way, what you suggest is exactly how particle accelerators work.
I was working on something like this but then I got this idea of how to run my car on water and now I'm working on that and given up on the magnet idea. But really, what kelseymh said is right. One pole of the magnets would be pushing and the other pole would be pulling in the opposite direction.
junkyardenergy (author)  Re-design5 years ago
OK I found what I was looking for, here is what I was trying to do ...know you can watch this and draw your own conclusions about the laws of physics be sure to read the comments ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAK_V73jNVc
put that into your google seach bar ...
So what? You have no idea what else is hidden under the opaque disk (a motor and batteries? who knows?). A low friction bearing and inertia are enough to keep something spinning after you provide an initial energy input.

A wind turbine as you propose is designed to extract energy from rotation; when you do that, you need to provide more energy as input (such as the wind) to keep the device moving. Otherwise (obviously), it will slow down as you extract it's kinetic energy.
junkyardenergy (author)  Re-design5 years ago
thank you for your positive approach to my question . but I just put it out there to get some ideas and try to get out of the box .keep in touch if you ever decide to build it . and fyi , kelseymh said it was impossible to run a car on water....
No, what I said was that you could not use the car's engine to electrolyze water, and then run that same engine on the H2/O2 recombination reaction. That is exactly the same perpetual motion as your ring of magnets, and it is exactly as impossible.

It is absolutely possible to build an engine which runs on "water" (i.e., on hydrogen burning in an oxygen atmosphere). However, you are going to use more energy producing the hydrogen from water in the first place, then you get back burning the hydrogen in an engine.
Gee, I guess I wasn't sarcastic enough!
We don't understand the qu'estion: can you give more details? (If you REPLY to comments like I've done to you, people will get a notification telling them that you have - do this to keep in communication) L
Sounds like a perpetual motion machine to me. !
junkyardenergy (author)  steveastrouk5 years ago
OK I found what I was looking for, here is what I was trying to do ...know you can watch this and draw your own conclusions about the laws of physics be sure to read the comments ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAK_V73jNVc
put that into your google seach bar ...
Yep, its a fix. There is a spinning magnet under the table. Until he flicks it JUST right, the top magnet can't catch the magnet underneath. Its a synchronous motor. Sorry,.
junkyardenergy (author)  steveastrouk5 years ago
yes , kind of with the help of wind and or some kind of timed electromagnetic force that takes less energy to run than my turbine is making... a exchange of energy ,only I am getting the better deal..
No, you won't. If you don't understand that, you will have some basic problems trying to design and build a functional piece of equipment.
Am I reading it wrong? It looks like he's asking for info on a wind turbine that uses fixed magnets, like one posted here, just poorly worded (no offense intended j-yard)
oh...nvm...I just read it again...and well...nvm...I agree with what Steve said.
Kiteman5 years ago
Isn't a powered wind turbine usually called a fan?
junkyardenergy (author)  Kiteman5 years ago
OK I found what I was looking for, here is what I was trying to do ...know you can watch this and draw your own conclusions about the laws of physics be sure to read the comments ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAK_V73jNVc
put that into your google seach bar ...
junkyardenergy (author)  Kiteman5 years ago
its not a fan kiteman. thanks for the laugh..
'Fraid he's right, dude. If you provide input power to spin the blades, then you've built a motor and are running a fan. If you use external force (wind) to spin the blades and drive a generator, then you have a wind turbine. Pick one.
junkyardenergy (author)  kelseymh5 years ago
OK I found what I was looking for, here is what I was trying to do ...know you can watch this and draw your own conclusions about the laws of physics be sure to read the comments ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAK_V73jNVc
put that into your google seach bar ...