Instructables

A question for/about Vegans...

In Belsey's fabulous ible Vegan Egg, it's states that "Vegans won't eat or use animal products..."

Which begs the question:  Is it unethical, or unprincipled for a Vegan to drive (or ride in) any vehicle that consumes gasoline or deisel? 

Afterall, fuel is an animal by-product.

Abigaill2 years ago
There 're too many animal by-products around us. it's hard for vegans to avoid, even if they don't like.
bajablue (author)  Abigaill2 years ago
You make an excellent point Abigaill. The only thing a vegan can really control is what they choose to eat.
bajablue (author) 2 years ago
Now I'm wondering about pigskin/cowskin... actually Footballs to be more exact.

I understand the small footballs for kids are rubber, but collegiate and professional balls are made of cows hide.

Tony Gonzalez of the Falcons is a self-professed Vegan, but really in name only as far as I can see.   He's like the married guy (in name only) who won't wear a wedding ring for fear of missing an opportunity.

If Gonzalez doesn't adhere to Vegan principles, he should just call himself a I-Don't-Eat-Meat-But-I-Play-With-Skin guy.

If I was a devout Vegan, I'd pay some REALLY-GIGANTIC-nefarious-type-carnivorous-person(s) to tar and fake-feather Gonzalez.

To that end, I'm pretty sure tar is acceptable.

Wouldn't that be a fun Utube video?

 
I have to say I don't get all this no true scotsman stuff. Different people have different places of drawing the line as to how much due diligence they can/will do to ensure they are not using any animal products. Add in problems of definition and pretty soon you could get vegans who won't eat any food that has glucose on the grounds that it COULD be from an animal. Doesn't seem very reasonable to start berating people for not being good enough vegans because they use hydrocarbons and sometimes toss a football around.
bajablue (author)  Lithium Rain2 years ago
hmmm... I think the big guy could take a little light-hearted fun-poking... lol...IF he cared. ;-)

Are you a Vegan, Lithium Rain?
Nope, not even a vegetarian.
bajablue (author)  Lithium Rain2 years ago
Well darn. I was really hoping a few Vegans would weigh in... unless they're too serious to appreciate the innocuous, light-hearted banter.
Believe me, I have had enough run-ins with militant vegans to know how fanatical some can get.....when you get accused of being a murderer and life hater; well you get the picture.
bajablue (author)  Goodhart2 years ago
Wow. I've never had the displeasure, Goodhart. I would definitely consider such individuals "too serious..." for this discourse.

I also get the impression that some members feel this discussion has somehow breached hallowed ground. ;-/
I have even been told that some forms of torture are ok; such as feeding veggies only to a pet whose entire makeup, from their teeth to their intestinal constitution are geared for being carniverous. It boggles the mind....

bajablue (author)  Goodhart2 years ago
LOL!!! Thanks... I needed that! ;-D

My dog would make the perfect vegetarian as long as fish and eggs were on the menu.

She loves bananas, tomatoes, broccoli, bell peppers ... even wasabi peas of all things. If I eat it, she's convinced it must be good. ;-D
Yes, but most cats, and probably all lizards / snakes, some fish, etc etc. would have difficulties with a fruit and veggie diet. Some of them will literally eat and eat and still not be able to digest the cellulose material in veggies. They starve to death on a strict diet without their meat.

I was once asked:   How can you POSSIBLY eat anything that has eyes?  Andf I asked right back;  "what ?  You don't like potatoes?  ;-)

 
bajablue (author)  Goodhart2 years ago
Excellent points, all.

>>>potatoes>>>eyes>>> *snicker* ;-)
That would be a wrong impression if you are referring to me. However, I do feel that it's rather a negative thing to bash people for not fitting your own personal definition of adherence to a certain philosophy/way of life, and then claim that it was all in good fun and anyone who doesn't think so, or who objects to what you are saying, is uptight, over-serious, consider the topic hallowed ground, etc.
bajablue (author)  Lithium Rain2 years ago
lol... Boy... I guess you told me.

I am a scosh stymied as to how you think you've come to know "my personal definition of adherence to a certain philosophy/way of life... blah, blah, blah."

Perhaps you're projecting?  I don't pretend to know you, or the motivation behind this/your rabid diatribe.

But if you feel better now, I'm good with that. ;-)
I know your personal definition of adherence to the philosophy of Veganism because you keep talking about what choices people should and should not make.

In so doing, you are both defining your personal definition of adherence to veganism (do these things and not these other things) and attempting to impose your interpretation of veganism on others, by saying that if they don't do things they way you say, they aren't really vegans. So assumption on my part is utterly unnecessary.

An example is when you said :

"Tony Gonzalez of the Falcons is a self-professed Vegan, but really in name only as far as I can see. He's like the married guy (in name only) who won't wear a wedding ring for fear of missing an opportunity.

If Gonzalez doesn't adhere to Vegan principles, he should just call himself a I-Don't-Eat-Meat-But-I-Play-With-Skin guy.

If I was a devout Vegan, I'd pay some REALLY-GIGANTIC-nefarious-type-carnivorous-person(s) to tar and fake-feather Gonzalez.")

And you say *I* went on a rabid diatribe?

I did not go on a "rabid diatribe." I calmly stated my position, as I continue to do now. In addition to being exceedingly condescending, you are making things up which never happened. Please do not do that.
bajablue (author)  Lithium Rain2 years ago
Clearly, you have difficulty grasping the rhetorical concept of tongue-in-cheek humor... and/or your comprehension skills are in desperately need of honing.

I'm sorry I can't help you what that.

What do you say we just agree to disagree and call a truce? ;-)
Insults and repeated cries of "You need to lighten up! Don't take things so SERIOUSLY" (all the while rather oddly attempting to deny it) only serve to more effectively make my point for me.
bajablue (author)  Lithium Rain2 years ago
Oh my. I don't think this conversation is going to end well for us Lithium Rain.... I surely don't.

I'll concede to tossing a few barbs your way, but what did you expect?
You've clearly been itching for a fight since comment one. 

I've never asked (or cried for) anyone to lighten up.  Knock your silly, unhappy, indignant, delirious self out if bickering makes you feel good.  Throw another tantrum.  I honestly do not care.  Welcome to your very own self-induced train wreck, Lithium Rain. I do hope you enjoy it!
Why?

No, I have not been itching for a fight. I have expressed disagreement with you. These things are not the same.

You have certainly asked for (and indicated hopes for) people to lighten up (sometimes preemptively). To claim otherwise is beyond disingenuous:

>hmmm... I think the big guy could take a little light-hearted fun-poking... lol...IF he cared. ;-)

>I was really hoping a few Vegans would weigh in... unless they're too serious to appreciate the innocuous, light-hearted banter.

>I would definitely consider such individuals "too serious..." for this discourse.

I also get the impression that some members feel this discussion has somehow breached hallowed ground. ;-/

>Clearly, you have difficulty grasping the rhetorical concept of tongue-in-cheek humor.


Please stop calling me names and accusing me of rabid diatribes and tantrums when I've done no such thing. It is very immature.
bajablue (author)  Lithium Rain2 years ago
If I promise not to acknowledge you from this moment on, will you leave me alone?

Please???

So if they don't like what you say, they need to lighten up? :\
bajablue (author)  Lithium Rain2 years ago
Is that reallly what you thought I said?
It is certainly implied.
bajablue (author)  Lithium Rain2 years ago
That is certainly your assumption, anyway. ;-/
Now it's *definitely* what you said.
bajablue (author)  Lithium Rain2 years ago
WTH are you hallucinating about now? 8-/
bajablue (author)  bajablue2 years ago
Please, please... forget I asked. I.D.O.N.O.T.W.A.N.T.T.O.K.N.O.W.
See my reply dated Mar 21, 9:25 PM.

Also, please don't start yelling/cussing at me when I haven't done anything to warrant such a response.
bajablue (author)  Lithium Rain2 years ago
What the HECK? Are you addicted to drama... or?
One of us has gotten upset about this conversation and departed from points of logic in their posts. That person is not me. I have generated no drama.
.
bajablue (author)  caitlinsdad2 years ago
lol... yeah, what Spock said. ;-D
bajablue (author)  bajablue2 years ago
hahaha... "really", too. ;-)
.
bajablue (author)  caitlinsdad2 years ago
omg... this is so nutty, it could drive a person to chew on... bark! ;-)
Many vegans will tell you that the only difference between a vegan and a vegetarian is the "reason" for the abstinence: Vegans: so animals will not suffer; vegetarians: for health reasons. The fanatical ones go so far as to not want to destroy a disease harboring misquito....
Probably not, anecdotal evidence points to not enough fiber in her diet.
+1
lemonie2 years ago
It is unethical for a "vegan" to drive or be driven in a car with leather-trim. Or horse-hair / feather stuffing in the upholstery.

L
bajablue (author)  lemonie2 years ago
[gasp] Something else just occurred to me, Lemonie...

Now I'm not sure about in the UK, but in the States, many newly developed diesel engines require a urea additive.  (lol... no s#it... it's pee!;-O)

I don't know what kind of urea is used in this additive, but I betcha it ain't human... which probably wouldn't bother a Vegan in the least!

I think Don't ask, don't tell  is probably the most (U)reasonable approach

I know, I know... this is almost unbelievable, but I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried! ;-D
Urea is industrial: mineral gas (methane) + water -> carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide & hydrogen.
Hydrogen + air (nitrogen) -> ammonia
Ammonia + carbon dioxide -> Urea

L
bajablue (author)  lemonie2 years ago
Taken from hino SCR Technology:

Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) is a solution made up of purified water and 32.5 percent automotive-grade urea that is used as a carrying agent for the ammonia needed to reduce nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions from vehicles into nitrogen, water and carbon dioxide (CO2).

What is urea?
Urea is a compound of nitrogen that turns to ammonia when heated. It is used in a variety of industries, most commonly as a fertilizer for agriculture. Urea is naturally occurring, but it is primarily produced from natural gas.


bajablue (author)  bajablue2 years ago
I must say it's the last sentence gives me cause to pause.

hmmm..... "primarily"..... ?
That means "-can also be produced from other sources, but we haven't researched that much."

L
Yes, that's it. DEF will be industrial as I described.
The synthesis can be reversed in the exhaust-system to produce ammonia (and carbon dioxide). ammonia reduces nitrogen-oxides to dinitrogen and water (harmless).

L
bajablue (author)  lemonie2 years ago
But.. but... what about the horses under the hood? ;-D
Kiteman2 years ago
:-D

Excellent.

I wonder how many vegetarians and vegans are aware that when toiletry and laundry products list "anionic surfactants" in their contents, they usually mean chemicals extracted from sheep?
bajablue (author)  Kiteman2 years ago
DANG! 8-/

I.d.i.d.n.o.t.k.n.o.w.t.h.a.t.e.i.t.h.e.r.!!!
There was an interesting series of documentaries on the BBC, called Kill It, Cut it, Use It..

LINK

LINK

If you're in the UK, you can see clips here, otherwise, many clips are available on YouTube.

bajablue (author)  Kiteman2 years ago
Oh my. Perfume a la Whale Puke. Fascinating stuff!
Babies of a bird species called the Eurasian Roller vomit a foul-smelling orange liquid on themselves as a defense mechanism. Talk about eau de farum ! LOL
bajablue (author)  Goodhart2 years ago
lol... I did not need to know this, evil Goodhart!  No, I did not! ;-D
A lot of seabirds vomit on you as a defence mechanism.
Yes, but it seemed extra gross to me to vomit on one's self for this purpose....albeit the alternative is much worse I suppose
bajablue (author)  Goodhart2 years ago
I agree. No one should ab stain. Not even birds.
I didn't know that birds had abs ;-D
bajablue (author)  Goodhart2 years ago
Let me ponder this. ;-)
Goodhart2 years ago
"Technically" the answer would be "no". From what I have been grilled on by vegans, this does not harm an existing animal. Which begs the question, is road kill allowable then? :-)
bajablue (author)  Goodhart2 years ago
OMG, Goodhart... You seriously read my road-kill mind!!! ;-O)
(lol... and don't think "grilled" escaped my attention.;-) 

On a different-but-the-same subject...

I also wonder if all Vegans are Pro-Lifers... or just Pro-Animal-Lifers? 
Technically, humans are animals... most of them, anyway. ;-)
Yes, but a LOT of them prefer animals over humans (until they get eaten by one LOL). This is interesting....nothing but the ORIGINAL LOL
bajablue (author)  Goodhart2 years ago
Here's the tally of a recent poll of Vegan members at 30 Bananas A Day :

Pro-Life: 26

Pro-Choice: 41
LOL that's only 67 % of them, do the rest abstain? LOL
bajablue (author)  Goodhart2 years ago
Allow me to rephrase:

67 Vegans respnded to a Poll. 41 Vegans said they were Pro-Choice. 26 Vegans said they were Pro-Life.

To abstain, or not to abstain, was not the question. ;-)

Yeah, I try to avoid staining my abs too ;-)
bajablue (author)  Goodhart2 years ago
hahahahahahaha!!!
canucksgirl2 years ago
Honestly, I had to laugh when I looked at the "Vegan Egg".

The "recipe" calls for calcium lactate, and although the author tries to suggest "it is made by reacting lactic acid with calcium carbonate"; there is a failure to mention that whey is most often used as the fermentation medium (because its cheap and plentiful).

Whey is a milk by-product and yes, milk comes from a cow. Some production of calcium lactate is made using beet sugar, but unless the manufacturer chooses to divulge their methods, the "Vegan Egg" may very well be made WITH animal products.
bajablue (author)  canucksgirl2 years ago
f.o.r.s.u.r.e I.d.i.d.n.o.t.k.n.o.w.t.h.i.s.!!!

Yet another revelation! ;-D