Are you to blame?
There was a post on the Bamboo bike frame, essentially saying "a disclaimer that this could be dangerous isn't enough; people aren't qualified to judge the strength of their homebuilt bike frames so might still get hurt even if they are careful", which attracted a lot of ire, but also a response from whiteoakart reframing the question, thus:
As a maker and writer of an Instructable, what is your responsibility to keep your readers safe? How far does your culpability extend?
This is obviously a knotty issue, and one that seems to have a range of attitudes across the board- some people say "pointy things are pointy, hot things are burny, don't hurt yourself" and leave it at that, some people list all the grievous injuries possible from their Instructable.
In my opinion, there are two major things to consider:
Is a person likely to do themselves harm even taking reasonable precautions?
- An Instructable on how to weld, with clear advice on breathing protection, eye protection and not electrocuting yourself should be "safe"
- An Instructable on free rock climbing, even with all the advice in the world about how to climb well, could easily get someone killed because free climbing is inherently dangerous
Both of these have an element of "reasonable" to them- if you make your instructions foolproof nature will give you a bigger fool, but there is a point at which it is reasonable to assume that a sensible person following your instructions with care and attention will not injure themselves.
More thoughts?
35
comments
|
Add Comment
|
If a person can't take responsibility for their own actions, they shouldn't
DO
anything.Period.
In addition, all these issues of what if a 10 year old reads it and tries it...WHERE ARE HIS PARENTS and why aren't they being responsible parents. with many of these 'ibles if i had tried them when i was 10 my parents would have killed me, there wouldn't have been any concern about me injuring myself and suing. I think we need to stop pandering and hold people to higher standards both as individuals and parents(if they are parents).
I am tired of being expected to live in fear with everything i do because someone might take offense or decide they need to sue me. I want my liberty and freedom back and with that the right to hurt myself if i am stupid. if i did decide to sue and it was my stupidity, I want a justice system that will say just that and throw the case out right away and even better would be if my lawyer then got in trouble for bringing such stupidity into the court. this issue falls right in line with all the "political correctness" garbage out there and the issue of nanny states. I lived in a 3rd world country for 2 years and people there called things as they are, if you're stupid, they'd tell you; if you were white, they'd say white not caucasian; if you were begging, they'd tell you to get a job; if you hurt yourself, you were to blame. it was so refreshing. it is sad that things aren't like that here anymore.
Copping out is a failure in personal responsibility.
Finding an explanation is a gift which will help avoid the problem in the future.
There is nothing wrong with stating that some kid did poorly in school because of ADD. The next step is more important. What do you do about it? If you use it as an excuse to continue poor performance, then, yeah, that's BS. But if a diagnosis changes the way you approach life, your life can be made the better for it.
In our household, I practically forbid the use of the word "fault" as in "who's fault is it?" It does not matter whose fault it is. What matters is that there is a problem looking for a solution. If you find a solution, you're a hero.
Instead of "fault", we substitute "responsibility". If it's my responsibility, I need to make it right.
Fault implies failure and blame. That's why everyone is so quick to claim, "it's not my fault!"
If the tire falls off my car while I'm driving, is it my fault? Who the he** knows? Maybe I should have checked the lugnuts. Maybe someone did it maliciously.
But it is my responsibility. I am thankful no one got hurt and I fix it.
Presumably the law has its own criteria for what information is considered dangerous of itself, I'd guess the ethical equivalent of that distinction is part of what I'm looking for.
I think there are also some things you can't disclaim responsibility for- a zoo with no fences and a sign saying "beware of the leopard", or a public building full of rusty nails sticking out of the floor with a sign saying "please mind your step" isn't going to cut it. If you posted the pipe bomb instructions online, some kid found your instructions, built one and blew himself up, you are responsible even if you disclaimed responsibility. In that case the responsible thing to do would be not post at all.
Many Instructable writers take the sensible standpoint of saying "I disclaim responsibility for what happens to you; if you disagree, don't build it", which is effective, but only so far as you consider those disclaimers to be binding. When's the last time you read every word of a EULA you then clicked "I Agree" on? IIRC there is a legal precedent that EULAs aren't legally binding because it's an established fact that no-one reads them, even if you do have to scroll all the way to the bottom to unlock the Agree button.
A discussion about the actual legal standing of EULAs (though it may be just armchair lawyers).
I think that comment thread touches on some of the points I am thinking of, but the legal details (contract law, IP law etc.) are way over my head. The part I was specifically thinking of was that I seem to remember someone winning a judgement against an EULA based on the fact that it's a well-established fact that almost no-one ever reads an EULA in its entirety.
I'm envisaging a similar scenario where someone points out all the sets of dangerous instructions on the internet, complete with "If you do this I disclaim all responsibility, this is for informational purposes only pls don't actually make any explosives kthx" and a similar establishment that the detailed step-by-step instructions in question are designed to be followed, not just consulted for information.
While it would be nice if you could write "by accepting this brick through your window, Sony Corporation accept all liability for potential property damage and expenses occurring as a result" and have it be legally binding, I don't think it's quite that easy.
For rock climbing, you shouldn't need to warn that falling off is dangerous, but it would be sensible to warn about a particular kind of rock being brittle, or extra slippery when wet.
You shouldn't need to warn about soldering irons being hot, but if you are using it on a material not normally subjected to heat, and it creates particularly noxious fumes, that is a useful warning.
Basically, if it is unexpected, or counter-intuitive, warn about it.
A Native American has been kidnapped. You may have seen the signs: Watch for Falling Rock.
One Native American was so upset at the lack of police assistance in looking into the kidnapping that he staged a protest. He sat outside of his wigwam and stayed up all night drinking 400 cups of tee.
The next day, they found him dead in his teepee.
How do you warn against things like that? ;-)
How do you warn against things like that?
"Excessive consumption may produce diuretic effects"
I both agree and disagree (as can be seen from some of my own comments and replies). If someone raises a legitimate safety issue, which the author didn't mention, then it deserves to be acknowledged. Maybe it's a misunderstanding to be corrected, or the author should add a note, or the comment itself can act as such.
On the other hand, consider the recent "pop-tab chain maille" imbroglio. Someone decided that the whole Instructable ought to be taken down, because the author didn't state in big bold capital letters that the project wasn't actual protective equipment. To me, that kind of over-reaction is just blind stupidity and lack of common sense, not a reasonable safety warning, and deserves all the ridicule it gets.
By using Instructables or any Service, you may be exposed to Content that is offensive, indecent, objectionable or unsafe. Each user must evaluate, and bear all risks associated with, the use of any Content, including any reliance on the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of such Content.
L
For example, look at my baby-crib mod. I have a whole Step discussing the fact that this modification is technical "unsafe," as it violates the CPSC's rules for rail heights on cribs. However, I don't bother to warn people that a power drill might put a hole through their hand if they're too stupid to use it properly.
The proliferation of lawsuit-driven, liability-fearing warning labels, or the enumeration of "possible" drug side effects with no indication of probabilities, leads to both irresponsible victimology ("it's not my fault, you didn't warn me!") and to a desensitization for real dangers.
I'm quite happy with what I do myself, but in publishing this I thought about electricity and added some notes of caution. If you give people instruction that can be followed it's worth considering who might follow and what you aren't sharing.
You need to address hazards reasonably, if someone has a table-saw it's reasonable to assume that they know how to use it, or can otherwise lose fingers without following your instruction (unless it involves an unconventional use of the machine).
If you're hacking or otherwise perverting something that was safe (like electricals, home made pyrotechnics) it's advisable to point out where safety is compromised. If what you show is obviously hazardous (hot molten-metal) there's less to be said, but the two do cross over.
In conclusion, be sure that a 10 year old has enough information to be aware that there are hazards and roughly what they are (whether these are obvious or explicitly stated)
L
![]() |






















Vancouver Mini Maker Faire 2012
Rebuilding NordicTrack ski machine drive rollers
Looking for New Zealand-based Instructables authors for conference on August 27 in Wellington
Call to makers - Brighton Mini Maker Faire
Milk Crates - not as green as you think
TEDxBaghdad - Iraq - violence, dust storms and open sourced manufacturing
UK Mini Maker Faire - The Derby Silk Mill - New Poster to Share!







