"Truth is, pipe tobacco in moderation isn't all that bad for you."

Another failure of modern education...

Please, read what I wrote, rather than laying your own prejudices on me. I wasn't insulting anybody, and I wasn't judging anybody, except the education system, of which I am a part.

If a child comes out of a modern education system thinking that "the truth" is that tobacco smoke is basically fine as long as you inhale it "in moderation", then that education system has failed the child.

As for your "justification" that it's OK to smoke because everybody's going to die anyway, the actual "truth" is that smokers have half the chance of surviving to 65 as a non-smoker, and you have obviously never had the experience of watching somebody close to you spend years dying of tobacco-induced cancers.

Pray that you never do.

Wait, who said anything about inhaling? You don't inhale a pipe, that'll mess up the flavor and your lungs. Not all smoking is about getting a nicotine hit, pipes are for relaxation. General Douglas MacArthur was a pipe smoker and lived to be about 84 If I recall correctly, Elmer Keith (inventor of the .44, 41, and .357 Magnum) sure died young at 85 years old. Mark Twain was 75, that was a pretty good life.

You don't inhale pipes, you enjoy the flavor in moderation. You're comparing a wine taster to an alcoholic basically. I smoke a pipe but cigarettes smell like garbage to me, It's a different kind of tobacco.

As for it being addictive, I've smoked a pipe since my early teens and I have a genetic disposition to addiction in my family. However I can just have a pipe, put it down for a week, no withdraws or anything. It's great.

Hmm, three people beat the odds, therefore it's safe.

You don't inhale deeply? Very sensible...

this is true but rare to what i have seen a pipe is NOT safe but its not like yout keeping it i your lungs then again im 19 i dont have much experience

Not just three people, there are many more than that. Look up famous pipe smokers, a majority of them live long lives.

I don't inhale at all actually. And I smoke in moderation, If you want to keep me from smoking you're gonna have to try harder. I don't care what your lifestyle choices are, mind your own business and stay out of mine. If you don't want to smoke then simply don't do it. It's that simple, but I wish to smoke regardless of your disgusting mouth cancer link.

I live a dangerous lifestyle, and pipe smoking is nothing compared to what I could be killed by. Ever hunt wild hog? Ever have a 250 pound wild boar charge you? I was lucky that my .44 caliber bullet was placed correctly. I was indeed lucky that I cleared leather and shot and hit the right spot just in time. I otherwise wouldn't be typing this right now.

After that we BBQ'ed that porker. My friends and myself. Yep, carcinogens from charcoal used to cook the meat. Oooh, guess I should stick with little carrots and celery since that's safer. But you need protein to build muscle right? Well, you can't just eat it raw! Raw meat isn't healthy either, you can get bacteria and viruses. Guess I'll just have to live on the edge.

Speaking of living on the edge, ever try rock climbing without ropes or anything? I think it's called free climbing, a fitting name wouldn't you say? Well that's just what I do, I free climb on big rocks when the opportunity is present. I love it too!

I know that I could fall and die if I'm being stupid or just plain unlucky, but I enjoy doing so despite the danger. I am careful though, and I still haven't ever had any broken bones.

I also throw knives, shoot guns, hunt, fish, build my own firearms, and stuff like that. Yes, a knife could come back and nail me between the eyes. Yes I could have a squib round stuck in the barrel and on the next shot blow my gun up. Yes I could get killed by a wild boar, yes I could drown in the fishing hole, yes I could have a microscopic crack in the receiver or barrel of my firearm and have it explode on me. But do I let that limit me? Nope. Not at all, in fact I enjoy those things even though I could get hurt doing so.

Mortality rates for non-inhaling pipe smokers are two years higher than non-smokers, don't try and explain to me why I should take up knitting instead.

Stick that in your pipe and.. oh wait, nevermind! :)

Pipe smoke, like cigar smoke, doesn't get into the lungs as much as with cigarette smoking, it impacts the mouth, and throat however. Long term use of either, since some of the "juice" can get into even the voice box, cause many kinds of cancers, some of which are fatal, ALL of which are deforming. I have seen a lot of cigar and pipe smokers with a tracheotomy....not the "preferred" method of talking for sure.

Now the apples vs oranges "argument".

Hey-ho. I'm not trying to convert you. As you say, how you choose to shorten your life is up to you, and addictions* are usually immune to logical arguments anyway - you probably won't change your mind about smoking until it impacts you personally. In advance, I am sorry.

All I'm doing is making sure that anybody reading this gets some scientific facts as well as romanticised self-deception.

_{*You may not be addicted to the actual nicotine, but you are addicted to the image you choose to project to the world.}

theres also the fact that you can buy organic tobacco which is nothing like the nicotine filled tobacco at a store most cancers come from the processeing not the tobacco.

I "hate" the organic argument: #1: organic material is that which is grown, all tobacco is grown #2: many plants contain arsenic, which is completely organic but not healthy in any way. Breathing in particulates, smoke, dust, asbestos, ANYTHING not gaseous, can cause cancers, especially of the lungs. However, mouth, throat, and larynx cancers are most common with pipe smoking but just as deadly if not halted.

im not saying its good for you its far from healthy but its not as bad as a ciggarete which lots of people instantly think of

It's not as bad as cigerettes IF you mean for the lungs if you don't inhale. BUT it is worse then cigerettes for the mouth, thoat, teeth, etc. Much worse.

And, of course, you have the data to back up this amazing claim...?

No actually I don't this is from when I smoked trying to defend myself and block out danger, I quit since due to studying if what can happen

The issue under discussion here is not that it's dangerous and therefore you should not have the freedom to do it. The issue here is that some users are claiming that the danger does not exist, and that is simply not true.

You know, I think that tobacco is being attacked the same way as pot was back in the day. But instead of "Reefer Madness" and all the hilarity we can bask in, we get pictures of people who smoke so much that they have to get a hole in their throat.

Don't listen to alarmists, they are merely trying to scare you and keep you from enjoying those simple pleasures in life. Even though there's danger, you've got to accept it if you wish to smoke pipes. You have my support my friend, I believe in smoker's rights and know for a fact that we both have the right to do what we please given it's legal.


Today I stopped by the drugstore and got myself a new pipe, a Missouri Meerschaum Legend. It's a bent corncob pipe and was very affordable. It smokes cool and dry! It's got a filter too, you can get a box of ten filters for a mere .89 cents. The pipe, was a mere $5, and American made! It's definitely affordable and you get a lot for your money.

~Levi

Do you have any idea at all about the risks of smoking?

Do you know how many times you need to smoke to be at risk of a fatal cancer?

*None*

Not only is second-hand smoke as carcinogenic as smoking yourself (sometimes more so, because you aren't breathing through a filter), even being in the presence of somebody who has recently smoked has been shown to be a cancer risk - if a smoker only smokes outside their home, and never smokes in the presence of their children, their children are still at a much-increased risk of a wide range of cancers.

You want to live on the edge, prove yourself immortally young? Climb a rock, jump off a ferry or drink yourself into a stupor. At least then you're only killing yourself.

I'm done with you, just make sure you keep your medical insurance up to date.

I'm well aware of the real dangers of smoke. I'll be sure that if I get the pleasure of meeting you that I'll blow a big fat cloud of smoke in your face, because according to you if I do that you will die in 30 seconds.

Now excuse me while I go smoke my pipe.

Anti smoking crusade? He manipulated it to fight for [his] own cause? Made into something unpleaseant and partially destroyed its helpfulness?  Destructive?

Please. Someone disagreeing with you may be painful, but that doesn't make it wrong or evil. Yelling "Shut up shut up shut up shut UP!!" when someone says something that makes you uncomfortable isn't a valiant protest of persecution; it's just childish.

Nope, not true. There was no "massive attack." There was a very short comment contradicting your blatently incorrect statement. Sorry, but you don't get to rewrite history.

I'm so very sorry that you didn't find posts that disagree with you helpful, but I am afraid that on the internet, when somebody says something we disagree with we put on our big girl/boy pants and deal. The point of the forum is not merely to be helpful to you, personally, or to any OP for that matter. Not one poster on the thread is under any obligation to tickle your ears. 

Logic didn't fail because you didn't use logic. Or reading comprehension. Reread the thread. Nobody is saying you shouldn't do it because it is dangerous. What they ARE saying is that you are absolutely, completely, totally, horrifically wrong for saying it isn't dangerous. And you simply cannot defend your original statement with verifiable facts or science.

I am not sure exactly where you got the notion that you are in a position to dictate to others what they may post about on the forums, but I can assure you that you are mistaken. Sorry, but there's not even a rule of etiquette that requires us to respect your desire for a personal echo chamber. You can keep asking people not to post at all, or not to post in a manner you dislike, but you will not gain any traction.

As for C: What was that again about not talking to someone else like a parent? I don't recall insulting you. I did use that terrible thing I've heard people use online sometimes, sarcasm. (Oh, no, I did it again!) You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I care about what you think about my use of sarcasm. I don't.

Keep the tobacco apologism in check, no one wants to deal or even talk to someone who is half as tobacco apologetic as you are, please just step back and think. When would you listen to a person who is talking contrary to facts?

Else wise they come off as plagued by dementia or schizophrenia.

That's an unnecessarily low blow, and a contravention of the Be Nice policy.

I suggest you respond with verifiable facts, rather than ad hominem attacks.

>they come off as plagued by dementia or schizophrenia...it just plainly doesn't make sense

And I say that's hogwash. There's NEVER been any kind of rule, or even custom really, about staying on topic on this forum. (Also, you've misused "disenfranchised.") Just look around, dude. The only people who talk about staying on topic are those who personally dislike the direction a thread takes.

>I don't see at all why you think your so special. I really really hope you have something special going for you.

Right back at ya, cupcake.

>so please tell me why. why do you feel the need to challenge me? i really hope you don't get off feeling like a winner for trying to start an argument. so tell why, or what is your purpose on posting on this forum? please make it concise and I'll do my best to give you the best answer i can.

You're one of the most arrogant people I've come across (and let me assure you that that is _really_ saying something). I'm not sure why you think it's such a travesty anyone would dare challenge you, or why you think it takes temerity. It doesn't.

I'm not sure why you think I answer to you, but I'll bite. I'm posting because I happen to feel like backing someone who is pointing out that you are spreading misinformation that can and does hurt people, not because I find the feeling of challenging HOMEPIE64's Supreme Sovereign Authority Over The Internet orgasmic, or because it makes me feel sooooooo good inside.

You can continue to try to browbeat me into submission by questioning if the Real Reason Lira Posts is because she needs to feed her insatiable ego, but it's a silly endeavor if the point is to make me feel all sad, make me go away, or post in a manner conforming to your personal preferences.

Don't let people get to you like that (corrosive) - there are better things to be doing than internet-bickering...
Conceding this one to Lira was a good move.

L

I wasn't just posting to you.
This is a publicly-visible forum, and I feel a moral obligation to correct dangerously false statements made in public places.

_{(I also don't think you fully understand the reasons most people start smoking. Genuine "choice" is frequently not involved, but that's another discussion.)}

We're cool - I'm sensible enough to realise that a single opinion does not define the whole man.

There's health risks in literally everything. You could die while driving a car, or a bike, or you could get some virus on the buss from one of the weirdies and fall fatally ill. I'm not going to live my life in fear, I smoke a pipe because I enjoy it and not because I "need" it. I have made the choice to do so and I'm not letting any anti-smoker change me.

The straight facts are that tobacco DOES contain carcinogens. Then again so does coffee, and those hot dogs you just grilled on the BBQ, I shoot guns and handle lead ammunition. I work with solder and brass sometimes and I get lead on my hands through that. I of course wash them, after I'm done but some little stray particles of lead could linger on my hands.

It's a dangerous world out there. I don't let that stop me from living life the way I want to and neither should you.

If someone wants to enjoy their pipe, it's their body and their choice. Freedom of smoke man, freedom of smoke.

~Levi

 I don't know. I personally would like to fly more kites myself.

fly a kite while smoking your pipe!

Will try this.

now that sir is a fine idea lol

^not sure if serious....

Yeah, jerky wouldn't light.

Directly killed anyone, of course not, but indirectly killed someone, that's for sure. Wait, I'll do a little research on the effects of marijuana... Oh, here we go, respiratory problems... plays a role in cancer... and somehow affects the immune system. Also concluded is that marijuana may have more adverse effects than tobacco. Another source also says that initial effects are loss of balance, dry mouth, rapid heartbeat, and loss of coordination. Withdrawal after being chronically exposed may stimulate the stress response system (yeah, that's right, stress). There are other stuff listed. Want sources?

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/f/mjp_faq14.htm
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/effects-of-marijuana.html

Conclusion: Marijuana intake must be regulated in case of medical use. And it might have killed someone, but who knows? The "hasn't killed anyone" part is somehow true. Indirectly though, smoking weed while driving a car, bad idea.

These are the facts, and I am only the messenger.

Your opinion has nothing to do with the question

First of all, I posted that comment over a year ago, and second, there is no real question, I don't see a question mark anywhere in his topic.

It's a hookah pipe.  You puff on the pipe which pulls the smoke through the coal on the flavourant through water.  In doing so, it bubbles (obviously).  Hence the name.

It's not something you carry around with you while smoking but it is very quick to set up.  I think it's from India (not sure though)

It gets really interesting when some fool replaces the water with brandy or vodka!

I'm with you on the good oral hygiene.  One can never really have enough.

As for the type of person, I've got that same image, but then you get these:

Ask yourself - why is a website selling you a tobacco product using a thirty-one year old report to persuade you that their product is safe?

There has been a lot of research since then, and a clearing out of a lot of corrupt practices from "the system".

Have a look at what the surgeon general says about smoking now.  He (?) makes no distinction between the devices used to hold the burning tobacco.

Not at all.

There is one simple fact with tobacco - using it shortens your life.

The only real question is which bit of you will be responsible for shortening it most?

Lungs clogged with tar?

Poisoned epithelial cells unable to clear infections from your trachea?

Cancer of the lungs, trachea, mouth ("I don't inhale deeply" is no protection) or colon?  It was bladder cancer that finally took my grandmother, although she took three years to die as her whole body shut down, a piece at a time, including her mind.  Yes, it was tobacco that gave her the cancer.

Heart disease?

Reduced circulation in the extremities (yes, including those extremities, resulting in a loss of libido)?

Is it worth all that, just for an image?

Alcohol in moderation has proven medical benefits.  A diet can be adjusted to be healthy.

The same cannot be said of tobacco.

 I agree that cigarettes are disgusting, and are one of the worst possible things you can do to your body short of Russian roulette, but they do help relieve stress. My older brother recently came back from Iraq, and everyone took up smoking, mostly to relieve the stress, even more so with PTSD. I'm not condoning smoking, and I don't think that people should ever start unless they have a serious situation. 

I do think that the risks far outweigh the benefits. My uncle recently died of lung cancer and complications, and I definitely think that it is one of the most horrible ways to die.

 Wow, this comment would definitely be ruled "Dilatory" in a debate situation

"I am not arguing that tobacco is good for you..."

Yes, you are.  You claimed that pipe smokers live two years longer on average than non-smokers.

Just because famous people smoked before they knew the risks of tobacco does not mean that you, or anybody else, is right to smoke.

Tobacco is not double-edged.  It has no beneficial side, except to the wallets of the tobacco companies and taxing governments.

It is old data (31 years, remember?) - if anything, it is a badly-reported (tobacco-promoting website, remember?  You haven't checked the original report, never mind accessed the raw data) artefact of lifestyle - what else does the typical pipesmoker do that can affect lifespan?

This is not opinion.  This is fact.

There is no valid data that indicates any benefit from any use of tobacco.

You want help?  Here is my help - don't smoke.  There are cheaper, quicker and less anti-social forms of self-harm.

Check your history - doctors used to recommend smoking as a way clearing up chest infections.

Don't bias your search results by looking for evidence of longer life.  Search for pipe smoking statistics:

People who smoke cigars or pipes seem to have a higher risk of death from coronary heart disease (and possibly stroke), but their risk isn't as great as that of cigarette smokers. This is probably because they're less likely to inhale the smoke. 

Passive smoking, and even third hand smoke are a hazard to others, no matter what you smoke.

A few moments of googling found the answer in a 2007 study that identified the effects of different kinds of smoking:

The number of total life-years lost due to cigar or pipe smoking was 4.7 years. Moreover, cigarette smoking reduced the number of disease-free life-years by 5.8 years, and cigar or pipe smoking by 5.2 years.

That is, typical pipe or cigar habits reduced the length of the average healthy life by 9.9 years.

And?

Try following your own link properly.

All your data says is that pipes are less dangerous than cigarettes, IF you don't inhale, and IF you hardly ever actually use them.

Try finding data to show pipe smoking is healthy that is less than 31 years old (that link is to a report 46 years old!).

Finally, you admit that it is opinion only.

And I am offended by websites that fool young people into thinking that pipe and cigar smoking is practically harmless, even beneficial, by quoting reports that are decades out of date, produced at a time when tobacco producers could get away with bribing and corrupting government officials into only publishing favourable data.

Admit it - there is no safe form of tobacco.  The only reports which can be twisted to say a form of tobacco is "almost safe" were written decades before proper controls were in place.

So show us the evidence - find a current, peer-reviewed paper that asserts the safety of pipe smoking.

Go on, prove that I am closing out evidence.

You'll forgive me if I don't hold my breath, even if I do have a significantly higher capacity to do so than the typical smoker.

Pipe smokers live longer? 

Whatever, the mortality rate when all factors are taken into account is invariably 100% for everyone, so do what makes you happy.

They're going to do that eventually... Sometimes they do and just don't let on... I got a nasty shock the other week when my mum sat down for a conversation, awful blunt way to put it compared to her usual standards... 

Eh, if you actually think that coming to them for advice and their input on something may make them see you in a negative way then maybe you are worrying too much, have you actually tried pipe smoking, personally it's just not for me and seems to be an acquired taste...

Admittedly I do enjoy good strong coffee and a nice cigar... I imagine we'd see eye to eye there...

I wasn't saying don't, just that it is particular, you may well like... One thing though, make sure they don't get confused and think you're just smoking weed, most parents suspect that first about pipes, even wooden ones... 

Parents can be like that. Why not get the pipe to start with, then think about filling it?

L

Pipe smokers showed risk levels similar to cigarette smokers' levels

Prospective Study Of Effect Of Switching From Cigarettes To Pipes Or Cigars On Mortality From Three Smoking-Related Diseases

I meant buy a pipe and show them - "I'm not smoking it, I just like the look", sort of thing
?


L

You can surely buy the pipe without permission. Smoking it is something else, and it's not really advisable. I knew someone (deranged) who deliberately started smoking 'cos it was something he wanted to do, but he then ended up having to quit because he found that it wasn't anymore...

L

Yea, but you're after a look rather than deliberately acquiring a nicotine-addiction are you not?

L

The look was not meant as for others, you say pretty much what I thought about it. But you are not aiming to acquire a nicotine habit are you?

L