Youre welcome much love

Instead of going straight to the counselor, let him get to know the counselor and trust and like him or her as a friend. Kids don't want to confess thing to strangers.

+1

That wouldn't necessarily be so, if he has a "problem" of some sort. Internal chemical imbalance or a high functioning form of autism, like asperger's could easily be triggered by the frustration with a world that doesn't understand him and, to him anyways, it seems like the world at large doesn't try to understand. And the problem is, traditional punishments do not work for such. They tend to make matters much worse, very quickly.

That is why I said that the child is too young to experience aggressive behavior. He needs the help of professionals, not the help of laymen like us. When it comes to health issues I believe that we need to seek trained and certified professionals, not to ask questions in these forums. I find very irresponsible to post here or anywhere else instead of searching sound medical advice from a physician.

Yes I understand, but one has to also understand that, if such help has been sought, and mostly to no avail, then frustration can take over and one seeks help where ever they can. We can not diagnose for sure, but guidance can still be served in the form of direction, as I have attempted to do....offer another direction to look in, and maybe find better psycho-analysts for the child.

Ok, the reason I asked if he is on the spectrum or not is that traditional punishments will not work for those on any portion of the spectrum, even the high functioning Asperger's end. A whole different methodology would then need to be employed, IF he is on the spectrum that is.

+1

Also, don't forget that modifying his behaviour isn't primarily the job of other people, it's yours.

It can be very hard, long work, but the number one tool is your own determination and perseverance. Punish bad behaviour consistently (we found that "the naughty step" worked brilliantly, as the stairs have nothing of interest on them - the boys spent as many minutes alone on the step as their age in years) and remember to praise good behaviour. When he's doing the right thing, tell him he's doing the right thing. Avoid over-using material rewards - a smile, kind words and a bit of your precious time are worth far more than a new toy or candy.

>the boys spent as many minutes alone on the step as their age in years

It took me a disturbingly long time to parse this. At first I thought "wait, doesn't that mean they've lived their whole lives on the stairs?" XD

Haha, no - if they were naughty when they were 5, they spent 5 minutes on the step.

(I'm full of opinions tonight)

Badly-behaved children are often bored children. Bored because they lack appropriate activities.

There are lots of kid-friendly activities on this site - pick a few that will provide a challenge to his abilities, and then spend a Sunday doing something useful and creative.

I would avoid video games altogether, and monitor TV watching. If you can, watch TV with him, and talk about what's on the screen.

Read together.

Do chores together.

Set boundaries, stick to them.

Stick to a sensible bedtime (no matter what "all his friends" do), and a regular bedtime routine, even at weekends.

Stick to a sensible waking routine - up, washed, dressed, breakfast, school.

etc etc etc...

+1

Above all, spend some "quality time" with him...

And from one mother to another, spending your time posting questions about "Have you ever had your heartbroken..." shouldn't be a priority if you are having trouble at home. (Sorry for being so blunt, but that's just the way I feel).

+1

Although the source of that heartbreak may give an insight into the roots of the behaviour - possibly the author has been obsessing over a new beau and ignoring her son, and, now he's gone, she is suddenly having to face the consequences of her neglect.

You asked for help, and we have tried to give it, based on the very small amount of information you gave.

While we were giving the information, which you allegedly need desperately, you were spending your time talking about heartbreak and mythology.

That gives us a clear picture of your priorities.

"Be nice"? We are being nice - we're spending our time giving you the benefit of our knowledge and experience.

It's not our fault if you have not give the full picture.

Like I said, folk can only go on what you give them, and what you gave did not paint a pretty picture.

I must respectfully, but very strongly, express my dismay and disagreement with your (and others') position that a mother who posts about her own emotional distress while also posting about her troubles with her son is "neglectful."

The narrative of the good mother as a saint devoted entirely to her children and nothing else, and having no needs of her own (or if she does, neglecting them) is an old and tired trope. Insisting that a woman who asks for help for herself as well as her for son, who divides her attention between seeking help to fulfill both her needs and his, must be neglectful not only smacks more than a little of stereotypically patriarchal attitudes toward women, but is really rather rude.

As I've said elsewhere, we can only go on what is given. I've already described the picture painted by the author in this topic (if it's survived the flagging flurry), but in the "heartbreak" thread, the author did not mention herself at all - we are not mind readers.

Then why did you say "the source of that heartbreak may give an insight into the roots of the behaviour - possibly the author has been obsessing over a new beau and ignoring her son, and, now he's gone, she is suddenly having to face the consequences of her neglect" ?

Either you reasonably concluded from the context and her actual statements (actually, she did mention herself in the comments on that topic, for example, "i want to rebuild my heart") that she was going through romantic problems, or you did not. You can't have it both ways.

My point stands re: the condescending paternalism inherent in the attitutude that asking for help on both subjects makes her "neglectful."

Because I had seen both topics being posted.

I know she mentioned herself in the comments, but not until after other people including me) had already commented.

Asking for help isn't neglect. Expecting other people to hand her an instant fix is immature and unrealistic.

However, she says she has drugged her own son, and makes no mention of the nature or source of the drugs, despite a number of questions. To me, that screams neglect. If she made such a comment to me [in the UK] as a teacher of her child, I would be both duty- and contractually-bound to make a formal report of the comment to the authorities concerned with child protection.

I know you're upset that people aren't being bright and unconditionally supportive of the author's plight, but, as I said elsewhere, I have been [professionally] involved in too many incidents that start with comments almost identical to the OP, and end up with the whole family being scrutinised by child protection agencies (and, in two cases, with the child being removed completely and permanently from the parents' custody within hours of such a revelation being made).

I acknowledge and respect your disagreement with my position here, and would not seek to censor your opinion (as, it seems, has happened to others on this topic, to the extent that the whole conversation has been removed from the wider lists), but in return I would ask that you respect my experience in such situations, which covers a similar time-span to your own life.

Seriously, I am not her to argue or fall out (certainly not with you), but I am genuinely worried about the fate of a child whose mother would rather seek the help of absolute anonymous strangers over the advice of medical professionals. She has openly stated that she is ignoring doctors' advice, and came here to have people agree with her rather than for actual advice.

The internet is not the place for the kind of emotional/psychological/medical/chemical therapy that the author and her son so clearly need. She must seek the help of professionals, and stick with it, probably for years. That's rough, but there is no other genuinely helpful response - if we all piled on sympathy and anecdotal agreements, she would carry on the way she is going, comfortable in the false belief that she is doing the right thing.

Now, for our friendship's sake, I hope you won't be offended if I don't contribute to this topic any more (unless directly asked to by the author).

I believe that you have eloquently expressed again and again my own feelings. I believed that it is irresponsible for anyone, and more so a parent, to ask for medical advice in a forum like this. It is disturbing for me that anyone would ask for the advice of complete strangers that might not have any medical training, There are parents that have successfully dealt with aggressive children, there are ways to handle the aggression in children (consistent discipline comes to mind), and I personally know of parents that have dealt with aggressive children. I do not disagree with medication as long as it is under a physician's supervision. There is no quick fix or panacea that will help Hazeleyes101 with her child. She has a long process ahead of her. Some children do need medication and respond well to the treatment. Every child is different and the parent(s) has(have) to take many factors into consideration when making decisions regarding children's health. I feel sorry that the conversation degraded to the point it did but I am positively sure that we all attempted to help Hazeleyes101, and she paid by lashing to everyone in here. At some point in our lives we need to "man up" or "woman up" for the best interest of our children. 

Fair enough; I hope you won't be offended by a brief reply. :)

I would like simply to correct something; she says "I let doctors influence me that medication was the best alternative,but no results."

(Oh and as to the censoring, as I'm sure you are aware that was done by management, not me (and not at my behest through flagging).)

Point #1: The OP made that statement 5 days after Kiteman and I had had our conversation which you felt compelled to criticize. Had that statement been made at the start, or clarified much sooner, perhaps a different assertion would have been made.

Point #2: Things are never truly deleted...

Point #1: Irrelevant as you both held to the position after the clarifying information was posted.

Point #2: Wow! It has been a _very_ long time since I have seen such a disingenuous attack. I'm frankly a little disappointed you'd stoop to that.

First, I didn't delete that comment. Since the entire exchange is simply gone, with no placeholders, that much should be obvious; I shouldn't have to "prove" it (how would I go about doing that, anyway?).

Secondly, I just said that the other side of the conversation (specifically, your comments, but in general is also true) wasn't censored at my behest through flagging. I didn't say I didn't flag something else objectionable by another user. Because I did. Which is why I said so to one of the offending parties.

And if you actually looked at the context - rather than quote-mining - I flagged just two comments, and one of them by OP! One said "you suck as a mother" and the other said "ya'll suck"; I flagged them both as what is good for the goose is good for the gander. It had nothing to do with disagreement and everything to do with maintaining some semblance of civility.

Yep, in your screenshot I said I flagged blkhawk's comment. But the screenshot is like a dishonest journalist who twists "if you want to be bored out of your mind, you should definitely see this movie!" to "you should definitely see this movie!" For a few comments down, blkhawk asked why I didn't flag the OP's top level comment to which he was replying. To which I replied that I flagged that one too.

I flagged both sides equally, for "language/insults" and flagrantly violating the Be Nice policy. So that shoots your theory that I'm going through flagging one side to "censor" them or just because I disagree. I've never done that and am a bit insulted that you would suggest I do.

I did not flag anything else on the thread (that I can recall - I've slept since then so it's possible some staff member could view the logs and see something else I flagged for name-calling or extreme terribleness, but I don't think so).

The point is, I most emphatically did *not* just go through all your (or anyone's) replies going "eww they disagree, flag, flag, flag, flag." I never do that; there's no point as meaningless flags just tick off staff or at the very least create extra unneeded work. I was frankly surprised to see your comments to me removed since it meant someone else must have flagged them.

If you're feeling hurt your comments were removed, take it up with HQ, not me. I never asked anyone to so much as review them, much less delete them. Besides, if HQ will unfairly remove one side of a conversation simply because a user asks, I think you have a bigger issue to worry about...

TL;DR:

I repeat: "the conversation was not 'censored' at my behest through flagging." I certainly didn't systematically go through and flag every comment that disagreed with me. The worst you can possibly say is that two remarkably rude comments, on both sides, were reviewed at my behest. *I didn't try to censor anybody by flagging them.*

But nice try manufacturing a "gotcha" moment.

Soo what does all that have to do with the authors Topic jus wondering?

I was accused of dishonesty regarding my participation in the author's topic.

Point #1: The OP's statement had no baring on my opinion. I discussed the point that the "heartbreak" post was made before this post, and in my opinion (whether right, wrong or indifferent), I felt she showed a misjudgment in priorities. In the days that followed, no reply other than "you all s*ck" was made… and quite frankly, that didn't change my opinion of her or the situation.

Point #2: You stated that "(Oh and as to the censoring, as I'm sure you are aware that was done by management, not me (and not at my behest through flagging).)"

If I incorrectly concluded that "not me", meant you had not done any flagging, then I'll apologize to you for that misunderstanding. It wasn't a "manufactured gotcha moment" or any "theory" I need holes shot through. It was merely to clarify, that yes in part, it "was you".

As far as feeling hurt… um… No. Why would I? My comments were not removed. As a matter of fact, all YOUR comments were removed from our conversation…

Last point: It doesn't feel very good when people rip apart your statements does it? You spent a great deal of time in your reply, and I can only conclude that what I said bothered you (but lets not debate that, if I am being presumptuous of your feelings). My point is that "we" don't like it any better than you do. You don't have to like everything that's said in the forums, and you also don't have to criticize everything you read.

I have nothing against you, and would welcome a pleasant, civilized conversation, but thus far, its never occurred. I'll take responsibility for my part (and apologize to you again for any offense I've caused you with "I am sorry"), and all I ask is that you take responsibility for yours. It would have been much more beneficial to the OP and her son for you to have actually offered her some constructive advice instead of just criticizing our opinions. Kiteman can speak for himself, but clearly, he has knowledge in this area, as do I; and we both have concerns for the child and nothing more.

With a situation like this it isn't about the mother… It's about the child.

Point #1: If her clarification had no bearing on your opinion, why did you imply that earlier posting of it would have changed your opinion?

Point #2

"It doesn't feel very good when people rip apart your statements does it?" Um...it feels fine. I don't care if you "rip apart [my] statements" as you put it (though you've yet to actually do that). In-depth dissection of a discussion hardly feels bad to me, else I wouldn't do it. You may not be aware of this, but point-by point discussions such as I have been engaging in in fact have a years-long history and tradition on the forums - ask any other "old" forumite. It's not at all considered discourteous on these forums.

"You don't have to like everything that's said in the forums, and you also don't have to criticize everything you read."

Neither do you. The great part about public forums is that differing views can be aired. I'm terribly sorry if you dislike that I "criticize" your advice but that's not about to shut me up. I've never asked you not to post and ask the same common courtesy.

Having no advice to offer, I chose to counter advice I saw as bad. I don't see how you can possibly take issue with that unless you pledge not to ever disagree with anyone on the forums again.


"As a matter of fact, all YOUR comments were removed from our conversation…"

What are you talking about? It's the other way around. See the attached screenshot:

"apologize to you again for any offense I've caused you with "I am sorry""

You'll forgive me if I somewhat doubt your sincerity after that.

I have nothing to take responsibility for.

I was not trying to be disingenuous.

Re: comments. Clearly there is 3 versions. You see your comments only. I see my comments only (see screenshot), and the 3rd version is what others see (check it while not logged in), which shows neither of our comments...

Oh, that's quite funny (and also explains several unrelated incidents). And here I thought I'd seen (or at least heard of) every variation on the hellban ever dreamed up...

Well played, Instructables. XD XD XD

It is rather funny and does explain a few things....

It's a first for me also. We were played. XD

I suggest we both save the page as html and screenshot it for good measure against those times when the existence of this measure is denied...just sayin'.

LOL... Something tells me no one would believe it unless they saw it for themselves... (so yes, I agree). :P

Point #whatever...

I hope you two are sorting things out?

As for not being able to see posts, I'm sending you both the same PM.

Allow me to deconstruct your comment like you love to do:

Insisting that a woman who asks for help for herself as well as her for son, who divides her attention between seeking help to fulfill both her needs and his, must be neglectful not only smacks more than a little of stereotypically patriarchal attitudes toward women, but is really rather rude.

How can you be so sure that this is the case?

That what is the case? I'm not sure what you're asking.

If you're asking how I can be sure that an assertion that "good" mothers sacrifice everything for their progeny and are totally child-centered is rude, I'm simply asserting it's so. That question makes little sense as manners are inherently culturally-specific and therefore relative. I can't "prove" to you that burping the alphabet at dinner with the Queen is rude, but I can certainly reasonably assert it.

If you're asking how I can be sure that an attitude that "good" mothers sacrifice everything for their progeny and are totally child-centered smacks of patriarchy, that is somewhat more readily shown. For a feminist look at a "sociopolitical rationale for our preoccupation with bad mothers" the first thing a Google search turns up is "Bad Mother" by Ayelet Waldman (can't vouch for the book beyond the limited extracts available through Google, however. While this author is controversial, the attacks are pretty much all ad hominems which themselves call her a terrible mother). A Google search for "heroic mother" or similar should turn up plenty of further examples of this attitude both in literature and contemporary scholarship, as well of discussion of how it is a male-defined metric.

You are ranting like a madman. You are taking this whole thing to a "pseudo-academic" level. The issue is very simple, she asked for help, we tried to help her and she snapped at everyone in here. The father of this child was not mentioned in her post so we had to assume that somehow the father is either not present for some reason or unable to help. I never said that only mothers should be "heroically" taking care of their children, I am a father, and I am proud to always be part of rising my children. I always said "as a parent", I never said "as a mother", you always need two to procreate.

I don't appreciate you asking me a question, then chastising me for answering it in-depth as you requested. As you have no substantive response to what I have actually said I will conclude you have none.

Whatever makes you happy!

I agree. If the heartbreak was the son's father, or someone who took on a father-figure role, it could explain his behavior. If he's having trouble coping or feels neglected or in some way abandoned, he may not know how to communicate that, and in turn the hurt comes out as anger and hostility.

My feelings exactly!

Of course, without knowing more details than were given, its really difficult to give more advice than we have; and its sad that this topic turned into more of a train wreck than anything...