Instructables

K'nex Innovators Contest: discontinued until further notice

Can't be bothered to keep this contest going. If anyone else wants to run it or create their own, go for it.

~Point board~
Waffleman - 10
Kinetic - 9
Jollex - 4
Arjun - 3
Sharir - 3

I feel as if I am to late. But I can build fast to get some fly by points. Im in and be expecting a folding repeater by tomorrow! :)
TheDunkis (author)  Blue Mullet 22 years ago
Meh, Waffleman is the only one to have consistently entered, so you could probably still catch up. I am sorry, but I already told someone else I wouldn't be taking late entries. HOWEVER, because I'm disappointed in the turn out of this one, I'll probably make folding repeaters a revisit challenge in the future. For now, see if you can take on the next challenge. Best of luck. d(^_^d)
Okay. Here it is anyway. I'll at least show you it. :)

Specs:
*10 round magazine. In the handle.
*Foldable.
*Looks smooth and sturdy.
*Full stock and ram.
*Non folding handle.
*Carry handle and sights.
*Shoots around 35-40 feet.
*Shoots grey connectors.
*Straight very sturdy handle.
*Solid 7 layer.
*Cute ;)

I can remove this comment if it takes up to much room.

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Awesome! Please post, I'd build it immediately
Awesome! Please post, I'd build it immediately
TheDunkis (author)  Blue Mullet 22 years ago
Hmm, looks very promising. I like how it has a handle magazine, though before the next folding gun challenge you should see if you can get it to fold as well. That'd be excellence.
Well, after reading the Convo between you and Sharir, i understand, but i had an idea, but its useless now, since this is dead, but i will be posting KIC5 just to show it. I hope someone else can uphold a contest that i can join, because it gets me really motivated to build. Anyways, let me know whats up.

~SW~
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman1 year ago
Surely someone could do something. Heck, really all you need is a bunch of you to agree to compete and then just have a judge or two. Then you all can agree on the concept.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!?!?!? I was gonna post KIC5 tonight :( I was really into to this! Why did you end it D:?
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman1 year ago
Too much of a hassle for too few people. Other people are welcome to continue it, I just won't personally do it.
Sharir17012 years ago
are you dead? lol come on, update the page, it's wednesday.
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
Meh, I didn't get any entries despite the two weeks. But then I'm sure people are extra prepared for this week's entry. It seems like challenges are either a hit or miss and time will rarely affect it. I'm just not gonna bother with a two week notice anymore. I'll update this thread on Saturday. By the looks of it, the contest isn't taking off. I'll do one more challenge after this and if I don't have more than four entries like the first week, then I'm just gonna let it die or let someone else try to continue it.
first, i didn't know you made it two weeks. a shout out should have changed the situation, because i don't think anyone else did either. anyway, don't give up, this was just a bad concept. i don't think it's possible with knex. and i stand by what i said that you shouldn't make this contest as one to perfect every single concept there is, because those are the results. i think you should try to appeal to more people. for example, i dislike shotguns and slingshots, so i didn't even try the first two. this round, i tried three different times and failed. so try stuff more people will like, and stuff that is more do-able. don't get me wrong, slingshots are a good idea that most people do like, i'm just giving a personal example. i agree that there's no difference between a week or two. i think you're doing only things you like. the flat gun, and the folding gun. i don't think that appeals to most people, because they're simple guns that don't have much potential for war, or even if they do, a non flat or non folding gun will always have more potential. again, try to make it more interesting. honestly, i think simple hammer guns are way outdated. more complex hammer designs, like some of the stuff kinetic's been doing, sure, but simple ones, with or without a manual lock option, are outdated. i don't mean to come across rude or arrogant or anything like that, but i honestly think you're wasting a chance to perfect more potential and more interesting concepts. sure, you said you wanna start off with these, but that's not how you get more people to participate. do these types of things later. you know what? have a poll at the beginning of each week to chose concepts. let people add their own ideas and others to comment "+1"... anyway, i hope you try to be a bit more flexible and get this contest going.
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
...as in you have two challenges, one is due the week after. I'm sure people gathered, otherwise they need to read more.
And why is it a bad concept? It's entirely possible, I guess no one is capable of it. And that's the problem, people who give up and think "oh, I can't make it, so it must not be possible at all." Wait, now I'm confused, now you're calling it simple? Anyway, the whole reason I'm doing simple ones like the flat gun IS BECAUSE PEOPLE COMPLAIN THINGS ARE TOO HARD.
Well hur dur, it's why I've been asking for suggestions for concepts people want to do but very few people have actually suggested anything. -_- So then I do spit out ideas that I personally want to see done and try people to do things they're not used to. If people want to do exactly what they want THEN THEY SHOULD BUILD IT ALREADY! I shouldn't have to motivate someone to do something they already want to do, so I'm challenging them to do stuff they haven't done much of.
And you're being a bit contradicting by saying that you don't like shotguns or slingshots yet then you go on to say I should appeal to what people like, and that people don't like guns that don't have potential for war. ...well then, am I supposed to say "hey, show me your best TR!" Hell no, I'm tired of that. I'm sick of that mentality, that was the point of this contest. I'm not worried about war potential. People need to stop being so obsessed over whether a concept has potential for war or not. In that case, I'd only be putting out the shotgun and slingshot concepts because they're long overdue for being perfected for use in war.

I am rather tired of the contest already. If you really think you can make it run better (seriously, not spitefully) then I henceforth hand control over to you. I'll go about trying to improve the community in other ways. If you're not up for running a contest, then maybe someone else will pick it up. I should really focus on starting that video series anyway.
(removed by author or community request)
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
The funny thing is you've been more insulting here. I haven't directed a single word at you personally. But the second funny thing is that you act as if you, Kinetic, innovanna, and Oblivitus are the community. You guys are great innovaters, sure, but what about the rest of the community? It's dying, we need to keep getting new members and helping them progress instead of relying on a handful of people to do everything. It's when all the innovators of previous times left or fell idle that the community suddenly slowed down and we asked ourselves "has K'nex reached its limit?" Luckily the handful stepped up and said no. But what happens when all the current innovaters quit?

And just a quick point on the war weapon part. I was going to work into war concepts. Most of them were going to be more advanced, so I was gonna give it a little more time. And actually, that was the point of working on smaller concepts. We'd work our way up into making something war worthy, like repeating shotguns for example. I ask that you stop assuming what my intentions are. Never mind that now.

Anywho, I'm not looking for a fight. So let me just wrap this up ignoring any personal points. I'm perfectly aware my building abilities have peaked for the moment and I just can't think of what to build, hence why I'm seeing if others can build what ideas I have. No one else is taking much initiative in helping make the community active. I don't like being a leader, it's in my INTP/INFP personalty. So I'm only trying to get others to work with me, not always for me. If I can't handle something though (like this contest for example) then I'll see if someone else can. I'm done here. I don't want to continue an argument. If you want, then keep the contest going, run it how you like, see if you can get more people to join, I don't see why you took offense to me handing it over. If you want to keep building, sure, whatever.
well then, i am truly sorry, literally. it sounded to me like you were trying to be mean. i'm sorry then. i understand now what your purpose was. but still, you haven't gotten anywhere with it. this contest isn't going anywhere either with that. you should focus on the videos (i don't think the wiki is going to help that much). if you are doing the videos, i don't think you alone can do it all. you would need some help from other people. i say this because the wiki is pretty much what was true back in '07. nobody uses those things anymore (well, barely). if you need any help...

done.

i didn't take offence from the handing over part. i took offence from the rest... but i have the S3 (SA 3252) on my back, as well as two other concepts. i'm also not gonna be building for about 2 weeks, and won't have much time to manage a contest. normally, i would try to take over, but i don't have much time, and after that, i begin school, and back comes homework and tests...

you are a bigger man than i... well done for handling that the way you did.
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
Alright, thanks, man. Yeah, I know I can't do it alone. That's why I made the thread for it, I need help and I was wondering who was all capable. I didn't want to start until I had solid volunteers. But no one has really answered the thread yet, so I'll bump it.
what kind of help do you need?
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17011 year ago
Simple, other people to do videos for topics they may be more avid about than I am.
and in these videos do you plan to build different types of mechanisms before hand and then show them? or rather build things at live to show building techniques? i might be able to help you with that. i need you to show me an example first, if you can.
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17011 year ago
It depends on the size of the build. I'll usually try building whatever it is unless I'm pressed for time and just want to show them. The idea will be to at least build one gun that demonstrates the purpose of that lesson.
sure, count me in. i think a good idea would be to list all the videos you want to do before starting to make the videos. what i mean is to make a list now of all the topics you want to get through in the entire series. for example:
- knex parts (and all their qualities and uses)
- connection types (what fits with what, how)
- barrel types
- trigger types
- bullet types
- magazine types
- handle types
- mechanism types (classic repeater, bolt action, slingshot, others)
- notable guns
- [more...]
Sharir17012 years ago
you gonna update the forum? i wanna see what challenge 6 is, so i might start on it.
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
I'll do so tomorrow. Was at my newphews' birthday party all day out of town and I can't be bothered to do it now, I need to get to bed early.
well?
also, write down the TDAC concept in future concepts.
Well, i must apologize, but im not going to do round 4, ive tried twice, with no results whatsoever, so, i will attempt round 5 for the time being.
I don't think anyone's going to do the revolver. It's hard enough just to make a semi automatic revolver, but to make it into a hybrid? That's way too hard.
TheDunkis (author)  ~KnexBuild~2 years ago
It shouldn't be so difficult in theory. We have a great example of a semi automatic revolver. So really if you take that concept and then just make a way for the trigger to also lock back the hammer when you pull it down, you'd have this concept down. But alright, I guess we'll come back to this one in the future.
I have a good idea of how to do it in my head, but when you try to do it with K'nex, then it doesn't seem to work. It would work if you could make it out of metal, because you can shape the metal however you want. So what's going to happen to challenge 4? If no one posts an entry, then what will you do?
TheDunkis (author)  ~KnexBuild~2 years ago
Then no points are awarded. I can't really help anything so we'll just proceed and I'll hope people participate in future challenges. I'll have to keep them easier than I thought I guess.
i'd hate to say i told you so...
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
So what do you gain by saying it? Doesn't really matter to me, we'll simply do it in the future when we have more people and after everyone has gained a little more skill.
Well, ill be starting challenge 4, but how many will there be?
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
Challenges? I don't know, we'll go on as long as possible, but I'll see about awarding prizes at certain benchmarks, like first to 50 points or something like that.
Ok, cool. But im having a pretty hard time with Challenge 4 :(
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
C'mon, keep pushing. You've been doing great so far at staying in the game.
Yeah, im not giving up on this.
Sharir17012 years ago
i'm just letting you know what i think about each of the new ideas:
i don't like shotguns, but that's just me.
did this idea have anything to do with my closed barreled slingshot from my failed projects 'ible? anyway, i like it and think it is a challenge i have been putting off for too long. i was gonna try it again anyway. you should do that challenge sometime.
i don't get the point of the RBG... there are quite a few of those out there, including the one i made for you at the time.
i think shell ejectors, while they are fun to play with, aren't practical for wars. and besides, there are plenty of goog shell ejectors as well.
if you mean to have a magazine that also turns the bullet in that circle at the end of the magazine, i think it's impossible with knex. if you just mean a horizontal magazine, sure, that's good.
i don't understand the "entirely flat gun". what? have a gun with no rods sticking out? those have been done so many times before, and aren't helpful, because pretty much any really good gun should have that level of freedom.
the stock has also been done before, and isn't very helpful, so no.

i think the closed barreled sling is the best idea.
also, if i had to add some kind of concept, it would be a multiple barrel alternating semi auto.
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
1. This contest isn't about what you like, but that's just me--oh wait, it's about everyone. XP I'll be doing things that others don't like but others do, that's just a fact everyone will have to deal with.
2. I don't know, I just decided that I'd like to build weapons in slingshot configuration, but I hate having an open barrel, so I'd like someone to perfect the concept because I have so little experience or patience. So yeah I look forward to this one too. But I do want to wait until I have quite a few people working before I get into these bigger ones.
3. I have yet to see a simple one, one without broken parts and that is actually as perfect as possible. If it's easy, great, we can get it out of the way. If it's hard, great, now we have a challenge. That's the point of this contest.
4. I think that people haven't given shells guns enough consideration. If you could make a double stack magazine (something more doable with shelled rounds) so that capacity isn't as much of a problem, it's a nice alternative to other power maximizing methods. I don't think they've been perfected quite yet.
5. Yeah, I just mean making the best, slim horizontal magazine. Something to hopefully put into an actual P90 sometime.
6. Yes, I mean something three layered thick with nothing sticking out. Really? Wanna show me? I recall only mine really. And the point is to make them good. -_- I'm not picking only the war weapon worthy concepts, we'll be tackling everything.
7. It has, but not exactly perfected. Else it'd be useful, especially for replicas.

So overall, we're doing things that are fun and/or cool, not just helpful.
Blue mullet had a few flat guns till he deleted them.
I believe he called them the smooth series
1. hey, i didn't say you have to do what ***i*** want. i just told you what ***i*** thought about each idea.
2. ok, sure.
3. ok, it's about the broken parts, well that might just be true. sure, go ahead then.
4.ok, i said that yesterday about the shells, but i've given it some more thought and i know exactly what you mean. i don't quite get how it's easier to double stack with shells, but whatever.
5. what i meant was that the real P90 magazine, if you know it, has the bullets stacked like a normal magazine, just horizontally, and at the back end of the magazine, there is a circular thing that turns the bullet so that it is facing the front of the gun, whereas before it was facing the side of the gun. my question was if you wanted to actually have that or just a normal kinetic's KLS mag, horizontal magazine?
6. ok fair enough. i don't see why you'd want these, but fair enough.
7. ok...

how about my idea? that is a concept that you might do in a later stage, and it is definitely one with a lot of potential that hasn't been thoroughly tackled yet by the community.
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
1. And I told you what I thought about your thoughts, it's all fair. XP
3. Alright, glad you see.
4. Yeah, there is still some hidden potential. People think it's too gimmicky to give it serious thought. And I've actually built a magazine that was I think 2.5 layers wide inside so that the shelled rounds were double stacked. I didn't know how I'd turn it into a single stack, though, so never kept working with it. I suppose it might be possible to make a double stack for plane rods, but I don't think it'd be as reliable.
5. Yeah, I know. I don't care how the bullets are orientated. If they were side ways, you could maximize capacity and still just shoot them sideways. I won't be picky about performance shootingwise.
6. Simple, it's just something different. Something that others may or may not be capable of.

Through what kind of semi auto mechanism were you thinking it'd fire?
pseudo semi auto multi pin alternating mechanism. to simplify it, like oblivitus' Z3. i think the Z3 doesn't suffice, because i think the mechanism can be made much more efficiently, much smaller and with different types of mechs. i am currently working on a very specific one that i believe will be a lot better than the Z3, and possibly smaller too.
Sharir17012 years ago
lol i just finished challenge 5 after 2 hours of working on it... it's a pretty easy challenge. i'm not posting it yet, though, so no one gets any ideas from me. lol. also, i gotta tell you, i tried challenge four three times, in three different setups (last week too), and none of them worked. i don't think you'll get any entries this week...
Sharir17012 years ago
btw, i think having a 5 layered flat gun is much smarter, since you can do much more, and it will result in a better gun for sure.
Sharir17012 years ago
are broken white rods allowed for KIC5?
~KnexBuild~2 years ago
I have a suggestion for challenge 6. A bolt action rifle that has a bolt with a pin that goes through the middle of the bolt. The bolt would push the bullet straight into another chamber, and it wouldn't need any ramps. It works sort of like a real gun's bolt action system. I have a rifle that uses this concept and shoots canadammo. It also has bending crossbow limbs and can shoot 100 feet. The gun also works flawlessly.
but then that's not fair because you already have one built.
TheDunkis (author) 2 years ago
Results are in, and the week after's challenge has also been posted. I was a little disappointed in only getting two entries and neither making too much progress toward perfecting folding guns. However, I do like that both had internal pins, so I think if we revisit this one in the future, let you guys think about it for a while on how you would do it, we could probably have it done when I reissue the challenge. For now, I'm really hoping you guys can pull off the hyrbrid revolver. It's actually a promising concept, something with war potential.
TheDunkis (author) 2 years ago
Alright, hey, I added a few ideas for future challenges. Do suggest your own AND suggest what we do next. I want to do what the contestants are up for or what the community wants, not just what I want.

Anywho, I'll be late for judging and giving challenge five (but challenge four is already up) tomorrow because I'll be going on a biking trip in the morning and probably hanging out with friends all day, but I'm not sure how long.
Hey, I have round 3 ready, but i ned to take pics, sorry, but ive been really busy lately.
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
Alright, as long as you have an entry in before tomorrow. I was beginning to worry I wouldn't have any for this round.
i only have a video up at the moment, and i've taken pictures, but for some reason my ipod isn't connecting with my computer for now. i'll try again tomorrow. does a video only (pics soon) qualify?
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
Actually, I do like videos more than pictures, but both would be nice.
Sharir17012 years ago
Do you mind if i post a few days late because of vacation
TheDunkis (author)  TheAwesomestDude2 years ago
Sorry, but yes.
oh well ill see what i can do by tommarrow
TheDunkis (author)  TheAwesomestDude2 years ago
Best of luck. Hope I can see an entry out of you.
Thats sweet my pics wont upload i would have it posted but some stupid error stops me from uploading oh well ill see what i can do, ive already made a forum topic about it so hopefully this problem wont happen again
Sharir17012 years ago
so i made a folding repeater. what's worrying me is this:
A. my gun basically just has a folding stock that folds and covers almost everything else to make it look like an almost perfect rectangle. nothing BUT the stock folds though. is that ok? will it lose me points?
B. right now i have a manual lock for the gun to stay folded. basically, you fold it and you have to take a blue rod out of one place and put it into another. is this allowed? will it lose me points? should i just make a automatic lock for it? thing is, i'm not sure i know how... please answer me.

btw, the idea is to make it rectangular when it's folded, right? also, it should open automatically, right?
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
Pardon me for being vague. I guess my internal thinking was that I wanted people to take a base concept and innovate for themselves so I wouldn't tell them exactly what I wanted. The idea is to see what you think you could do to make it better.

Basically think of it this way, if there isn't anything realistic you can think of to improve your gun, it'll be a five. Otherwise it'll be a three or four depending if the concept works but there's stuff that could make it better.

As for answering your questions directly:
A. If it conceals the gun and is reasonably sized, that's fine. I don't know how big your gun is, so I can't say what it'd earn.
B. Again, this is fine, as long as it automatically folds out and holds steady. Something wanting a five, though, would have an automatic lock.
k thanks
~KnexBuild~2 years ago
I think I may skip Challenge Three, because I'm not that good with making guns small and compact. That will give me more time to do the revolver.
TheDunkis (author)  ~KnexBuild~2 years ago
Fair enough. That's why Jollex suggested I mention two challenges. I'd rather have one skipped and one solid entry than two or less shaky entries.
Wow, challenge three. You already got me stumped as soon as i read "Folding" well, ill give it my best shot!
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
Well, it's been done before, so now you guys just have to worry about perfecting it. We kind of left it on the table all this time so it's about time we finish folding guns. Look to previous examples for inspiration.
TheDunkis (author) 2 years ago
Alright, round two is closed and round three is open. Also, the fourth challenge was mentioned so that those that want to can get a headstart in it, though it'll be two weeks before entries are due. Good luck, everyone.
Kinetic2 years ago
Ugh! Its done...

Haha you really kicked me in the balls with that one guys, tough build.
TheDunkis (author)  Kinetic2 years ago
It's funny, it was really supposed to be a simpler challenge in the eyes of other builders, but you indeed are more of a big builds person.
~KnexBuild~2 years ago
Are you able to enter your entry at any time on Friday? Or do you have to enter the entry before Friday? I wish these contests were longer than a week. It's the last day of the contest, and I still have to finish my gun, test it to make sure it works, take pictures of it, load the pictures onto the computer, and make an instructable.
Ideally, if I wanted to make a video so I don't get only a few points, I would also have to make a YouTube account, make a video, load the video onto the computer, and then using the embed code, I would put the video onto my instructable. I also don't have all day to do this, because I am doing other things. To make a long story short, I am saying that I think that one week is not enough time. Perhaps next challenge could be two weeks long?
TheDunkis (author)  ~KnexBuild~2 years ago
Yes, you can enter on Friday. Given my free time, I'll probably do all judging and start the next challenge on Saturday morning.

You don't absolutely need a video for points, but then I want a detailed explanation of your concept, how far it shoots, any inconsistency in accuracy, any problems like that, etc.

A week should be long enough for most challenges. I said I'd extend the time for concepts that would need it. You're dramatizing the entry process. Between 7 days to do so, even 30-60 minutes of free time a day should allow for plenty of time to prepare an entry. I want to keep these challenges coming out at a steady pace.
I had to break my first prototype because it was just horrible and didn't work at all. My second prototype didn't work either. Oh well, at least I tried. I hope the next challenge is a little easier.
I just had an idea that I think could be beneficial for this contest. You should have a challenge every week, but give the challenge two weeks in advance. This way, people who want to do every challenge still basically only have one week per challenge if they work on one gun at a time, but other people may want to skip on challenge and spend two weeks on a gun for another challenge. It seems pretty balanced to me, let me know what you think.
TheDunkis (author)  jollex2 years ago
I'll have to do that. I'll propose two challenges this week. At first I wasn't too keen about giving people an advantage, but it doesn't matter too much. If people finish the current challenge, they can get a headstart on the next challenge.
Round 2 V2!

    -Here-
Here is my entry for round two!

          -Here-
Its just about done :D im still waiting to see if it can have a bow or not, then ill put pics :) and a video
Yes, I'm sure it can have a bow. Is yours slide action?
Sadly, no, im very bad at those, but its still a good gun.
It sounds cool even if it doesn't have a slide. How far does your gun shoot? When are you going to post the gun?
Well, it shoots approx. 45 Ft, and in a few seconds.
Can it have a bow?
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
Of course. It's one of those things I was hoping people would think about adding.
Sweet.
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
Yup. Look forward to seeing your entry.
So round 2 is still open and anyone can enter?
TheDunkis (author)  Killer~SafeCracker2 years ago
Of course. You got until next Friday to make something.
Hmm.. I got some free time.. I'll try to get something made.
i did have a video of mine, but oh well, round two, I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL >:D!!
TheDunkis (author) 2 years ago
OK, sorry for taking a while. I'll make the next challenge rather simple to attract more people this time around. I'm updating the thread with the scores now. I'll think of what concept we should do next while I do.
jollex2 years ago
Soooo, when's this ending?
TheDunkis (author)  jollex2 years ago
Back from vacation now, I'll say this Friday I'd like all entries in. Sorry, yeh, the start was rather slow. I'll hope to pick up pace as we get more people involved.
Sounds good.
V2 and Final Version here!
-V2-
Sharir17012 years ago
does it have to have an internal basket and such or can i just make a slingshot with multiple ammo slots? i know, stupid question, but if i can i'd be saving myself a lot of work lol.
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
Again, I hate to be so limiting, but we'll have plenty of other rounds as well. We're gonna stick close to this concept just this time. The idea is a shell but on a rail essentially. I realize their are other methods, other shotgun concepts entirely as well, so we'll just finish this one and tackle those at other times. I'm thinking what I might end up doing is a few root challenges. Basically after we've explored a bunch of different concepts for a similar purpose, I'll have everyone go out and build what they think would make the best weapon for that purpose. For example, shotguns in general for war purpose. It's a delicate balance of choosing specific concepts so we can perfect them and leaving it open so we can cut straight to the point, so I think that'll be my solution.
i would really like to participate in such contests, but i (and kinetic and i presume many others) admittedly don't like shotguns, because of their high demand for ammo and their unaccuracy (usually) and their large size. also, i prefer to aim or shoot at a high ROF than just have a multiple shot single round fired randomly in the direction of an opponent, hoping for some of the shots to hit him. i don't know, i just think it's not such a good idea to focus on shotguns so much like you said.
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
On the contrary, it sounds like you guys need to try it out now. I believe that we shouldn't focus so much on range. The K'nex wars we have had showed the same thing over and over, it didn't matter how far you could shoot because people had to keep getting closer to guarantee hits. As such, high output weapons is what we should focus on just for war's sake (and we're innovating for the sake of innovating, so it won't be all about war). This means high RoF and multiple projectile weapons. And honestly, you guys must have not put much thought into it if you don't think an effective shotgun can be made. At the least, it's easy to make a gun that shoots three pieces and is not bigger than a typical gun. So, when we come around to them, either make a gun that satisfies your tastes or pass up the points. We're covering a large variety of other concepts so it won't be just you who has to go outside of their comfort zone.
don't catch me on my word about kinetic not liking shotguns. i just think he doesn't. anyway, i still think a shotgun isn't too effective. this type of mechanism in particular, because it's not a repeater... it's just an insert bullets, cock, fire gun that would have large spread, yes, but i don't think it will have any potential for range (and i do think range is important, because i'm a good shot, so range doesn't scare me), and it takes at least 5 seconds at the very VERY least to load such a gun that only has one not so good shot. sure, for up to 20 feet if you have only one opponent to shoot, it's good, but in any other situation, it's not. sorry, i just don't think i'll invest my time in a concept that may be interesting for some, but isn't potential at all.
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
This type of mechanism wasn't meant to be war worthy. Obl wanted to do it because it was simple and something most people could probably think up, but still have variety too. I'll be pushing toward more war efficient designs. And you should've read my post somewhere about how we don't innovate over night. The reason we're doing these contests is to work people up and gradually perfect an overall concept. It may not seem like it has potential now, but who knows what could come out of it? The TR, for example, didn't come out as is overnight. Anywho, fine, if you want to skip out on rounds, that's up to you.
oh don't take this personally, i wasn't trying to be rude or anything, i was just stating why i don't want to work on this. it came out harsher than i wanted. anyway, i understand, but i think the only people who will participate in these contests are the people who don't need the working up. look at the only two people who entered. i don't think either of them need much working up in the way you meant. i mean - the concept of the contests may work in theory, but the newbies don't know how to approach new things such as this (or at least they might be intimidated). i think to encourage such people to try this you need to state that any person entering without experience will get bonus points. now, you will have to decide what qualifies for experience. for example, a person who hasn't posted 3 guns, or a person who has only built standard "MR. T" guns (kinetic's post). you know what i mean?
TheDunkis (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
Well, I can't expect a new person to make anything big and new. They're not the target of this contest. This is for the intermediate to experienced builders. I want to saturate the community with several examples of concepts, overall leading to new building techniques and whatnot.

And I figured you didn't meant to come off as arrogant or anything, but I do think you're not putting enough consideration into shotguns. It's done, it's over, the fact is fact, range isn't everything is. The obvious truth is that K'nex were not designed to fly. It doesn't matter how strong or accurate a gun is, it's still gonna be inconsistent unless using special ammo. I've played airsoft as well, and the trend continues, usually you'll either waste a lot of ammo taking shots from afar or you'll realize you'll need to charge to guarantee hits. That's where shotguns shine. Yes, we'll need to work on them first. A repeating shotgun would be best. Something that could pull off a rapid rate of fire. So I'll work our way up there at some point. Anyway, hopefully you can join in on other rounds.
there already is a good repeating shotgun - oblivitus' mag shotgun. except for that, you could build something similar with a bolt action mechanism to make it stronger. it shouldn't be too difficult. i can't at the moment because i have a few things i'm trying and very few spare pieces, but i might try it in a month or so.
My mag fed shotgun has only 20-25 feet of range. We should be aiming for 50. And we could make ones that fire more rounds at once. Shotguns are something that we still need to develop. As TheDunkis mentioned, we only have so much range potential with knex guns, a repeating shotgun is something to shoot for. Imagine a semi-automatic shotgun with 50 feet of range.
yeah, the problem is nobody's ever made a normal semi auto that gets 50 feet. as far as i can tell, even your Z3, which is probably the best semi auto out there, can't get 50 feet. besides, i don't think it possible to make a shotgun version Z3 at all, so... anyway, that's not this concept at all. this is a weak, one shot shotgun. and it isn't exactly a slingshot either...
But in order to make a long ranged repeating shotgun, we first have to make a long ranged shotgun. That's really all that it comes down to. These designs are the basis of the future ones.
i don't really see how you would make this concept into a repeater, but nvm, forget about this whole thing. it's that i don't or didn't understand why you were doing this contest, but i was stating that i think shotguns aren't practical weapons at all. but like i said, nvm.
All right, well back to your original concern then. Why are we doing this contest? Because the community needs innovation. Is this a good way to achieve it? I don't know, but it's like my painting teacher told me: "If you get stuck than just start moving the paint around".
ok, fine. acceptable. the only point i was trying to pass over originally is that i don't think shotguns are a good place to innovate. i think it would be better to focus on semi autos. they really aren't that difficult to make, and that would really be an innovative contest. nvm, forget about it.
Shotguns and semi-autos are equal in my mind, I'll agree to disagree with you on that, but maybe you're right about semi-auto challenges being more engaging. That's an interesting thought.
"The K'nex wars we have had showed the same thing over and over, it didn't matter how far you could shoot because people had to keep getting closer to guarantee hits"

What wars are we talking about now? Certainly not the Pandemonium wars. Any gun that couldn't match the range of an 8-shot TR always gets quickly put away. Even 18-shot TRs have fallen out of favor thanks to the tiny range and reliability gain from the 8-shot ones.
oodalumps2 years ago
The bucket is going to eat up most of the power that the rubberbands give. I suggest that you abandon rails, and go for more of a hook-type thing to fling pieces with.
jollex2 years ago
TheDunkis (author)  jollex2 years ago
Excellence. Great to see you could come out of hiatus (as far as I know) to get involved.
jollex2 years ago
I don't think this has a deadline but I just need a couple more days to finish off my design if that's cool.
TheDunkis (author)  jollex2 years ago
Yeah, take your time. I'm being generous with time on this one as long as it gets people interested.
arjun12 years ago
TheDunkis (author)  arjun12 years ago
Fantastic! I'll let you know when we finally finish.
Kinetic2 years ago
It...is..ALIVE!!!

Here is my entry. Hope you like it, and a video will be up shortly.

As for a concept suggestion, I would love to see people try out the rail-guided pump seen in the Kinetic Slingshotgun. I think it will open up a lot of possibilities in the realm of pump-actions, and I would love for builders to be able to have the experience of making it, so that they can be aware of it if they ever find the need for it. I can provide more detailed pictures, and it doesn't have to be the exact same one, I just thought it would be easier since I already have gotten rid of most of its flaws. Let me know what you think.
TheDunkis (author)  Kinetic2 years ago
Hey, sorry about the late replies. On vacation currently, didn't have wifi until last night, but it was buggy and I was really tired after traveling in the car all day so I didn't bother and just used the cord today. I'm in Vegas. =P

Anywho, awesome, thanks for the entry. I'm not sure when I'll end, still waiting for a few entries. Now I'm off to take care of all the other comments that piled up. >_<
arjun12 years ago
I'm in, Ive already started
~KnexBuild~2 years ago
Do we have to follow Oblivitus' concept? If that is the case, then I'm out for this round. I made a slingshotgun, but it doesn't use Oblivitus' concept. When is the deadline for this round?
Here is my entry!! -Knex Concept 38F23-
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
Excellence! I'll let you know what you've earned after the deadline. d(^_^d) Thanks for being the first entry.
Cool :D and thanks :)
My gun is just about complete, i just have to check on how well it shoots. I think it came out pretty good. I need to know the deadline, and I'll have pictures up soon!!
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
Don't worry about a deadline as of yet, just focus on making sure it works. I'd like to proceed by Saturday, but I'm not gonna force it if not enough people are ready.
It works, but not well. But I tried, and i ran out of pieces at one point, but its done, i will post pictures after 7, because im about to go to football practice. Ive never done this concept before, but i took it head on, and i did what i could.
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
As long as it works. You get points for trying.
Kinetic2 years ago
It has been a week, so the deadline is today I would presume? Might want to post dates on future challenge topics.
TheDunkis (author)  Kinetic2 years ago
I already stated that because this is the first one, I'll be lenient on time. I'll probably wait for the first person to demonstrate their entry and then give a few more days. Ideally, would like to pick a day and follow a weekly schedule after that, so I'm hoping by Saturday so it's literally the end of each week, but I'll wait and see.
Kinetic2 years ago
Can't say I love the concept, but my own have been pretty crappy lately. Nothing like a challenge to get the ball rolling. I have to say that I am thankful for you both doing this, seeing that it will likely get the ball rollin for more people than just me. Thanks guys. Are collaborations allowed?
TheDunkis (author)  Kinetic2 years ago
Yeh, in all honesty, I'm not too thrilled by the idea, but it is easy enough to allow many entries on a sudden notice. We'll start rolling out more interesting concepts as the contest moves along. Likewise, we'll be mixing things up, like having teams and whatnot. That said, I'd like if everyone worked separately for this one, I want to stimulate everyone's minds seeing how this is a rather simple concept. However, at the same time, I want to make sure these concepts are close to perfected, so in the future what I might do is allow optional teams, but you split the points won among your team members just to be fair.
Yeah that sounds fair. Quick question though: I've been trying to come to a conclusion on this for a while now, but would a gun like this really be considered a sling? Yes, it does have sling elements, but the band or string or whatever you plan on using does not actually come into direct contact with the bullet(s). Should this be considered to be more of a rail gun than a sling gun? I'm not questioning what the forum states or anything, I just want a second opinion because I really am not sure.
TheDunkis (author)  Kinetic2 years ago
I was thinking about it too. It has elements of both really, but the reason I ultimately pick sling is because you're slinging the ammo, not ramming it. If you think about real slingshots, they have a pocket of sorts that the ammo sits in, similar to the basket of this concept. While it's true it does travel down a rail, the idea of a rail gun is that it's only the pin that travels down the rail and then hits the ammo.
knexguy2 years ago
Can I just clarify; is the concept meant to be effective in delivery of force or is it just for 'tagging' a large area at close range? Because the ammo I choose depends massively.
TheDunkis (author)  knexguy2 years ago
The idea in this one is to increase the effectiveness of ranged shots. It kind of contradicts our stereotypical idea of a shotgun: large spread for close range dominance. Rather, this idea is just to make singleshots more effective. Slingshots, for example, rely heavily on accuracy which in turn relies heavily on the shooter to score hits. However, with this concept, the idea is to make it easier to get ranged hits. I'm not saying this would be an effect war concept compared to other concepts, but it's just an simple idea being thrown out there.
Im in! I got this >:D
TheDunkis (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
Excellence! Good luck!
knexguy2 years ago
Well I didn't really want to break up my Falcon yet but you know what, it will present even more of a challenge creating this with extremely limited pieces. Count me in!
TheDunkis (author)  knexguy2 years ago
I always had a soft spot for efficiently built guns. If you manage to make it in a compact package, chances are you'll be awarded a fair amount of points. Good luck!
tytiger332 years ago
What about a better version of the "Logic Shotgun"? My version still uses a pin but it shoots 16 white rods like 30 ft with like a 2-3ft spread. I could even get the range up to like 60 ft with different ammo.
TheDunkis (author)  tytiger332 years ago
We'll attack other shotgun concepts later on, but we're gonna stick with a slingshotgun for this round.
Then I'm out. I don't have the available pieces to make that concept right now
jollex2 years ago
I'm in. I've been looking for something to get me building again.
TheDunkis (author)  jollex2 years ago
Excellent! I look forward to seeing what you build. This concept should be a piece of cake for you.
~KnexBuild~2 years ago
So the challenge is a slingshot shotgun? Does it have to use the exact concept like in the picture? If it just has to be a slingshot shotgun, then I'm going to have to kick myself for breaking a slingshot shotgun that I made. It shot 3 bullets, and used a true compound bow system. Oh well, I still have the compound bow, so I guess I could try to remake it. I would really like to participate in these innovation contests, so could you add me to the list of contestants?
TheDunkis (author)  ~KnexBuild~2 years ago
Just enter and you'll be on the list. Everyone is free to enter at any point because we'll simply be keeping track of earned points. Anywho, the idea, more or less, is to build the concept as explained. However, the whole point of a slingshotgun is range with decent spread to make ranged tags easier. Make it reliable enough to get it the first time every time. I won't force anyone to copy Obl's concept as long as they find a method that is as good or even better.
didexo2 years ago
I'll try but I'm busy with school.