Instructables

Knexsayer vs. BR18

Well I personally like the BR18, but I have never built the knexsayer. I would like to get some votes.
Please tell me which one you prefer, and why...

Thank you for your contributions!
=p

P.s.

I HAVE BUILT THE BR18 AND AM ABOUT TO START BUILDING THE KNEXSAYER AS OF 9:42, ON JULY 5 OF 2009. PACIFIC TIME...


DJ Radio4 years ago
BR18 pros: -18 shots -low part use -high range and accuracy BR18 cons: -Must wind up the turret to reload Knexsayer pros: -pump action -Medium ranged -Very sturdy Knexsayer cons: -very heavy -uses too many parts.
Why is everybody here saying that the Knexsayer doesn't shoot as far as the br18? And it's only coming from the people who haven't even built the Knexsayer. They shoot the same distance. Stop giving a worse name to people on Ibles.
I built the Knexsayer and I only got 20-25 feet.
i built the knexsayer and i got 75 - 80 feet.
Jesus. Jesus.4 years ago
with 2 rubbies
Build it right next time and put more then 1 band on it.
You put more then one rubber band on it and the gun wont work.
travw (author)  Killer~SafeCracker4 years ago
I have 2 on it...
Two 64s??
Yeah, I got about 70 feet.
Same here.
I put 2 rubberbands on that werent even #64's, and I got 90 feet flat.
travw (author)  Killer~SafeCracker4 years ago
Yes
Fine. I will say that BR18 gets medium range instead of high range.
i checked out your whole photobucket account and you turned your br18 into pump action. you need to make some more great guns!
thanks ill come up with something new whenever i get inspired to do so lol
now if someone can make a pump action while still keeping the stock decent, we would have an official minisayer.
I'll check it out tomorow.
no today lol
you angled it!
travw (author)  DJ Radio4 years ago
So, he got like 200 + feet. Let's see one of your guns get even 100 feet angled.
DJ Radio travw4 years ago
OSSR can go 180-200 angled.
travw (author)  DJ Radio4 years ago
Go ahead and try to get a shot off every second...
They both get high range.
I think that compared to the bigger snipers they both get medium-high range (something between the two)
"Sniper" is a very vague term. Are you talking about slingshot guns? Slingshot guns shooting sniper rods can get longer range. If you're talking about generic guns with a long barrel, then you're very wrong.
Yes, I meant slingshots.
I would probably assume he was talking about slings.
lol ibles
I built your gun, it got around 90 feet.
With or without fin rounds?
oodammo.
Im gonna build the BR v1 and check it out sometime. I do have enough knex, I bought some last week.
travw (author)  oodalumps4 years ago
How many #64's are supposed to be on the Knexsayer? Because I built it and got about half the range of the BR18. Even if I use 2 #64's on both. (Yes, I built it right. Yes, I'm sure.)
oodalumps travw4 years ago
4 or 5.
travw (author)  oodalumps4 years ago
Oh, ok. If I use any more than 3, the part that pulls the pin back breaks off.
oodalumps travw4 years ago
You're supposed to tape it.
travw (author)  oodalumps4 years ago
No, not that. I taped that part. I mean the connection of that part to the actual pump, which would be nearly impossible to tape. (I mean the area where the yellow rod connects to the pump with a white connector and an orange connector.)
I get around 90 feet on my old BRv1 with 2. I imagine the range would be super if I put 4 or 5 on.
DJ Radio4 years ago
Lol, my new BRv1 with mods works without tape.
bigdylan914 years ago
knexsayer way better the br18 unless somebody mods knexsayer to have 18 round turret.
oh gee, what an unoriginal comment. :-P
See one of DJ Radios comments below.
I would definitely say the BR18. BR18 Pros: 18 shots Small and compact Reliable Long distance Cons: Medium reload time. K-sayer pros: Innovative K-sayer cons: Short range Only 8 shots You can only use one rubberband
travw (author)  Killer~SafeCracker4 years ago
What range does the Knexsayer get?
jollex travw4 years ago
Knexsayer get's the same range as the BR18. My opinion is if you want something just to play around with, go with the k'sayer. However if you want something for a war, the BR18 is what you need.
DJ Radio jollex4 years ago
The Knexsayer gets better ROF, but has a smaller mag. The BR18 has a larger mag, but worse ROF. My solution- put a BR18-ish mag on the knexsayer.
But it wouldn't rotate as well.
Use the BR18's rotation mech, and let the pump pull the pin back.
i thought of that but pumps r unreliable and make the pin harder to pull back pumps actually slow down the ROF because u have to pump back then forward then u can shoot unless u redesign it also pumps increased the guns overall length more can go wrong mechanically w/ pumps not to say i don't like pumps entirely i do want to perfect one one of these days long story short when i made my Trifle series i didn't just come up w/ it off the top of my head i did a lot of research i designed and redesigned then i tested and tested and redesigned and tested some more when it comes down to it the simpler the better people r stupid people brake things easily aka my brother so i had to make a gun that was brotherproof the best way to increase range and accuracy is to use RR ammo (red rods w/ 3 fins angled slightly to rifle it in flight) to finish my novel up sooner than later let me b blunt my Trifle is compact for close quarters combat has a large ammo capacity allows for many different types of ammunition to be used loading is pretty strait forward the mechanics r simple tube and stick design true reliable trigger (had to redesign it thanks to my brother breaking it at the war) forgrip acts as support for barrel stock and turret guide pin keeps the gun strong when cocked stock supports the guide pin firing pin is simple and easy to replace in a battle rubberbands r easy to replace quickly the ROF is as good as it gets and the reliability of the weapon is second to none thanks to my brother and friends beating on it lol g2g i could go on forever the ksayer is a cool gun too i don't have time to get into all the pros and cons
1: "Pumps are unreliable." No they are not, they are just an add-on to the ram. 2: "Pumps slow down the ROF because you have to pump back forward before you can shoot..." You also have to take it in consideration that with a ram you have to move your hand from the grip to the ram, pull it back, then put your hand back on the grip again, then aim (you can't keep a larger gun really steady when your hand is not on the grip) and pull the trigger. That reduces the ROF with ± 0.8 second. 3: "...Unless you redesign this." What could you change about the system, it's fine! 4: "Pumps increase the overall length." True, but a longer length is usually not much of a problem. 5: "More can go wrong with mechanical pumps." Partly true, but according to people that built it it doesn't jam (comment if my sources are wrong) 6: "I do want to perfect one one of these days." Well that's good news. I wish you good luck. I hope it uses less pieces then the knexsayer. 7: "The simpler the better." I do not agree with you entirely, sometimes complicated systems combined with simpler things can improve prestations a lot. Maybe that is what makes the knexsayer (slightly) better 8: "people r stupid" What are (r) you trying to say with that? 9: "The best way to increase range and accuracy is to use RR ammo." True, it is really good stuff you made, but I just want you to know that the knexsayer (being a turret gun) can also support fin ammo. Your BR18 and your Trifle were the first to have this, but not the only one. 10: "the ROF is as good as it gets" Umm... It fires just as fast as a normal bolt action, pumps fire faster, semi-auto's even faster, and machine guns fire A LOT faster then your gun. 11: "My Trifle is..." and "G2g I could go on forever." and "the ksayer is a cool gun too I don't have time to get into all the pros and cons" No offence, but I think it is really childish of you to only list the pros on your own knex gun. You really disappoint me in that. In my own opinion; the trifle was maybe your best knex gun so far but the knexsayer is much better. If you want to know why, please reply.
1: "Pumps are unreliable." No they are not, they are just an add-on to the ram.
increasing the number of mechanical parts on a gun increases the chances that it will fail
2: "Pumps slow down the ROF because you have to pump back forward before you can shoot..." You also have to take it in consideration that with a ram you have to move your hand from the grip to the ram, pull it back, then put your hand back on the grip again, then aim (you can't keep a larger gun really steady when your hand is not on the grip) and pull the trigger. That reduces the ROF with ± 0.8 second.
my charging handle u just pull back and shoot
w/ a pump u pull back then forward then shoot
the ROF is really about even taking everything into consideration
3: "...Unless you redesign this." What could you change about the system, it's fine!
just cause something works doesn't mean it can't be made better
4: "Pumps increase the overall length." True, but a longer length is usually not much of a problem.
Pandemonium taught us that compact gun designs where the way to go
larger guns where 2 clumsy and difficult to use in tight situations
5: "More can go wrong with mechanical pumps." Partly true, but according to people that built it it doesn't jam (comment if my sources are wrong)
u haven't even built one? how can u sit here and tell me what works and what doesn't? lol
6: "I do want to perfect one one of these days." Well that's good news. I wish you good luck. I hope it uses less pieces then the knexsayer.
thank u
7: "The simpler the better." I do not agree with you entirely, sometimes complicated systems combined with simpler things can improve prestations a lot. Maybe that is what makes the knexsayer (slightly) better
ok then lol
look ksayer wasn't used at Pandemonium
y?
b/c it was broke
y didn't Mepain just fix it?
b/c it is a huge complicated piece of machinery that is difficult to repair apparently
anyway look im not here to bash ksayer
when Mepain showed me ksayer at Pandemonium it wasn't working but it was still impressive looking
it was very huge and very heavy i was impressed
everyone has there own opinions on what gun is better
but if u don't build both than u can't really have an good educated opinion
8: "people r stupid" What are (r) you trying to say with that?
9: "The best way to increase range and accuracy is to use RR ammo." True, it is really good stuff you made, but I just want you to know that the knexsayer (being a turret gun) can also support fin ammo. Your BR18 and your Trifle were the first to have this, but not the only one.
ksayer's turret cannot support fin ammo go try it
not even sure what u r trying to say towards the end of ur comment
10: "the ROF is as good as it gets" Umm... It fires just as fast as a normal bolt action, pumps fire faster, semi-auto's even faster, and machine guns fire A LOT faster then your gun.
im saying for a gun that is actually good
sure anyone can make an MG that shoots 10ft at a decent rate of fire but that is no good for battle
11: "My Trifle is..." and "G2g I could go on forever." and "the ksayer is a cool gun too I don't have time to get into all the pros and cons" No offence, but I think it is really childish of you to only list the pros on your own knex gun. You really disappoint me in that.
this was a response to a comment made about my gun
this was not a response to the forum
In my own opinion; the trifle was maybe your best knex gun so far but the knexsayer is much better. If you want to know why, please reply.
everyone has there own opinion and i can't make u a believer until u come up to the next war and face the TR18 for yourself
as i have already said before the ksayer is a good gun
however in my personal very biased opinion the TR18 is an extraordinary preforming gun on the battle field second to none
travw (author)  KILLERK4 years ago
Ouch... Lots of letters. By the way, to everyone who's opinion is that the Knexsayer is better than the BR18... MY opinion is that you are not entitled to your opinion until it reflects my opinion.

Just kidding

Kinda
TigerNod travw4 years ago
In that case, my opinion is that I don't care about your opinion :-)
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
I just said that you are not entitled to your opinion until it reflects my opinion, which is that you won't get your opinion until it reflects my opinion, which is that you won't get your opinion until it reflects my opinion, which is that you won't get your opinion until it reflects my opinion.........

In simpler terms. You have no opinion.

=p
TigerNod travw4 years ago
Lol
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
You also don't get to laugh. Or Laugh Out Loud.
TigerNod travw4 years ago
Lmao
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
WHAT DID I JUST SAY???!!!
TigerNod travw4 years ago
That I mustn't say Lol. You didn't told me anything about Lmao.
Have you visited this site btw? http://www.klikhierniet.net
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
And you call KILLERK's comment spam? That was some hardcore spammage. It took me like five min. to get throught that clicking as fast as I could.
TigerNod travw4 years ago
Haha, lol. Oh, forgot to say you can also hold the enter button to skip it in ten seconds.
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
Well, I just tapped "enter" really fast...
TigerNod travw4 years ago
Do you know what "klik hier niet" means? do not click here
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
"You also don't get to laugh. " DON'T MAKE ME KILL YOU.
TigerNod travw4 years ago
Anytime I hear something like that, I have only one answer... Bunneh?

........Do you have a job for me?
(\_/)/
(>,<)===>-----+
(> -.)>\`...\..
KILLERK travw4 years ago
New TR18w/slide go check it out here http://www.instructables.com/id/Trifle/
Dude, stop spamming! Yes your guns are nice, but please don't post ads when they are irrelevant to the topic!
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
Um... That's not irrelevant. It makes for a better ROF which is another "pro" of the BR18.
TigerNod travw4 years ago
Oops, srry!
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
No problem!
1: Sorry, I was wrong on that.
2: As I said before, you have to move your hand off the grip. This makes it much slower. Right now I kinda changed my opinion about pumps and firing pins; they are pretty equal in prestations but pumps are more fun :-)
3: I have no idea how you could improve it.
4: Maybe, but if I could choose between a larger knex gun with better prestations or a smaller one that is not as good, I have to go for the big one.
5: If I see an interesting forum topic, I just have the tendency to press that "reply" button. But you are right, next time I'll be sure I know some more about the subject
6
7: Now that you mention that, maybe simple is good in knex games. But if you just want to have fun shooting, use something complicated
8: (this comment has been removed by author or community request)
9: I thought all turret guns could use it, apparently I'm wrong (again). On the end I was trying to say that your gun was the first knex gun to support the RR ammo, but not the only one. But as I stated above: I was wrong on that.
10: I'm sure the ROF could get much much better.
11: Maybe... But next time it would be nice of you to spend just a little more time on the pros and cons of the knexsayer, especially because you listed like 14 pros on your own Trifle and none on the Ksayer.

Right now, I changed my opinion about the Ksayer. That doesn't mean I am a "believer". Sure, the trifle is a wonderful state of the art knex gun, just like the Ksayer, but as serial cricket stated, "Both are not that good. I think people are amazed just by the revolving barrel." And I think he do gets a point there. Both are good, but our brains are confused by the rotating barrel, thus we rate it too high when we compare it to others. The newest storm for example, works with a bolt and a mag, and reaches just as far as the trifle. Also it doesn't jam, a significant benefit. On the other hand, turrets are more reliable then mags, and can support many exotic types of ammo. (oodammo, RR's, shotgun bullets, and of course normal rods, regardless of the size.) But like all knex guns they do need a lot of work to become great.
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
I have made the newest storm... I fired at a 1 foot by 1 foot target 25 feet away... out of 50 shots 2 hit it... 19 shots fired, and only 5 went past about 10 feet. All the rest of the shots, that's 29 shots, jammed and pretty much destroyed the entire barrel. I actually did that, and I'm sure a lot of people feel my pain. pitiful
TigerNod travw4 years ago
Really? Oh my god, according to the jamalam the storm 221 v2.4 has a 95 feet range with 3 rubberbands, accuracy to within 25 cm off target from 30 ft, and it never jams! Are you sure this is about the right storm?
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
OF COURSE!!! First of all, yellow rod magazines are not, and will not be (in the near future) jamless. Second of all, if it was actually that awesome, why would everyone love the BR's? It would be all anyone would use. There's a reason people don't like it...
TigerNod travw4 years ago
First of all, be careful what you say bout the future of mags, I believe the day will come that repeaters will never jam. Second, I only copied what The Jamalam stated. Maybe you were talking about the original storm 221?
travw (author)  TigerNod4 years ago
I think you're right. But I'm betting they will be nothing like the 221 v2.4. They will probably be more similar to the ZKAR. And yes, it was the 221 v2.4.
jollex travw4 years ago
It's cause you don't have the magical "Jamagic" rubber bands that instantly make your gun shoot 100 feet *rolls eyes*.
I have made some slide action guns, and I found they have easier pin pulls than just regular pin guns. You might wanna read my review on your BRv1, BTW, do you have pics of the redesigned trigger?
jollex DJ Radio4 years ago
Neither the BR18 nor the Knexsayer have a mag.
DJ Radio jollex4 years ago
I meant turret. I didnt think my word choice that well. I meant put a BR18-ish turret on the knexsayer. At least Jammy got what I was trying to say.
;D Cos I'm clever! Lol, I think in literal terms it should be either a drum magazine or a clip. I think a clip.
Clip can also refer to a regular magazine.
Sorry, no it can't. A clip is a device for storing ammo, then loading it into the magazine. A magazine is holding ammo within the gun. So, a KAR98k has its own internal magazine. This can be loaded with a "stripper clip". However, a gun where the chamber/mag well is held without a magazine, a removeable magazine is needed. You get me? if not, look it up.
True, but I mean in knex terms there are a lot of names for what I call a mag, most popular are mag, hopper and clip.
lol stripper clip.
jollex DJ Radio4 years ago
Wow.
Oh, if you say so.
I guess so.
thats the thing about the knexsayer, you can't but a bigger barrel on it with out major mods to the entire gun. the barrel turning system is made to turn the barrel for a 8 barrel system. when you add 10 more, the space you need to rotate the barrel is smaller, and you need a completely new mech. or just make it turn with rubberbands(still not exactly sure what the disadvantage is that made mepain add the turning mech)
I said above to use Killerk's rotation mech, and let the pump just pull the pin back.
Hehe, good idea.
...You mean capacity...
yeah. Thats what I meant.
at the Knex war in ohio aka Pandamonium i loaded the TR18 before the battle and never had to reload during reload load a few shots here n there in while u have time and u will never run out the weapon worked very well
im gonna say neither cus i have not bulit eather but the br18 and 36 have more shots then the k sayer but im gonna have to bulid to find out whats the best
You have to build the BR18. It's the best gun out there.
sprout_less4 years ago
personaly i kinda like the knexsayer and i think my friends were more impressed with it also
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