The K4: Long-Range Reinvented

Greetings K'nex community.  I know I have been dead for the past few days, but that is because I have been very busy working on my latest and greatest K'nex gun, the K4.

Before I start, let me just point out that when I say "latest and greatest", I mean it.  This gun is all about innovation, power, and performance.  It utilizes a new breed of pump (a slide in this case) that runs along a track system, allowing it to maintain a firm grip on the gun without getting in the way of any other major mechanisms.  It also uses a new kind of ammo, a new bow system (which is not yet on the gun) that allows the trigger to be place in the front of the gun that keeps it from interfering with any other mechanisms, and many other mechanisms that you just wouldn't see in an ordinary gun.  

At this point, it is not yet complete, the bow is still in the works but most of the more tedious elements have been taken care of.

So now I'll just shut up and give you guys a peek at the K4! 

Check out the video here

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kinetic hey I've got you gun after building and he is working. it's not exactly according to your concet but work great. This is a picture of my gun I hope you like him
Sharir17015 years ago
did you by any chance get the string a pivoting bow arms idea from my closed barreled slingshot concept? the thing is i was talking with oblivitus about making my gun into exactly that concept, keeping the winding mechanism i made. if you view the 'ible i said the problem was that the band would turn inside the barrel and said to oblivitus that if i made the bands external on a bow and have a string go through the barrel it might work. i never actually did it because i was sunk into working on something else, but i did discuss it with him and so i must ask - did you get the concept from my idea?
Kinetic (author)  Sharir17015 years ago
No, the two mechanisms are actually very different. The reason it uses a string is because the point of the pivoting bow was to allow the tension to be concentrated in the pivoting sections, not in the area where the string contacts the bullet. In otherwords, when you pull back the string, you can then mkve the string around or do whatever because it is not taught, as a rubberband would be if you were using an ordinary bow system. However, a trigger mechanism for this type of setup is goong to be gery difficult to develop because the torque exerted on the small space that the trigger contacts the pivoting arms is enormous, and thus friction makes for a very hard trigger pull.

But dude, I think you should have continued on that project, it would have been amazing. You said the band got twisted up, right. Were you only using one string to pull it back? If you used two strings, each connected to the band with about a rod's width between them, it would likely get rid of any twisting motion. That would have really reinvented long range. If you don't go back on that project, I might just have to. I'll give you credit of course.
ok first of all, they actually are similar. the original gun i posted in my failed projects 'ible wasn't very similar, but the one i talked with oblivitus about later (in the comments of said 'ible) was. never mind though. i wish you the best of luck with this project... it sounds promising.

wow, really? you really think so? anyway, since i was thinking on continuing it, since i've just entered my summer vacation and since i don't have a project at the moment, i will take on the challenge again. i thought about doing the idea with the two strings (so did oblivitus and you), but the ratchet mechanism i had built back there (the one that the string wraps around and is cocked on) didn't allow to do so without making that area of the gun (11 layers as it was) thicker. i might try a few other things i have bobbing around in my head, i might even try the idea with the two strings, and anyway i hope one of the things i try will work. i agree that it is a fresh new concept that may be very helpful. btw, on the subject, do you have any more concepts you would like to try that i might be able to help you with?
Kinetic (author)  Sharir17015 years ago
There is another concept I had a while back, I'll see if I can dig out the computer-sketch I made...

But anyways:
The reason that full and semi-autos are so difficult to make out of K'nex is because, unlike real bullets, each individual round does not come pre-loaded with a source of energy that can b\easily be released by a smaller source of energy. This could be achieved in K'ned by making pre-loaded "shells" for each individual round that would resemble cocked block-trigger guns, just without the handle and as simple as possible. These could then be stacked and, using the mag pusher as the ignition energy source, they would be pushed up continuously or semi-automatically so that the blocks release the pin and fire the bullet.

However, this poses multiple problems in the areas of bullet portability and in the loading process, as each shell will likely be awkwardly shaped. My idea is to create a cylinder that is fixed to the gun, and houses these pre-loaded pins, but not the bullets. The bullets would be housed in a vertical removable magazine that would line up with the cylinder, so that as the cylinder rotates, either by trigger pull (we could do 3 round bursts with one pull), or by a wound rubberband, the blocks in the cylinder releases the pin just as it is lined up with the bullet, firing it, and then the next bullet would pop up just as the next pin lines up and goes off.

Unfortunately I couldn't find the sketch I made, but I think you can picture it in your head. It will definitely be easier said than done, but if it can be done, I feel it will be one of the best guns ever made.
i know that thing about the real bullets... lol pretty much everybody does. anyway, your idea sounds amazing and i think i know how i can do it. wow i'm going straight to work right now (after i finish checking my comments lol) !!!
Kinetic (author)  Sharir17015 years ago
Great man, I'll start working on it too as soon as I can.
i started working on it, but there was a big problem i didn't anticipate: the rams, since they revolve and they have both a cocked and uncocked position require A LOT of space in all the direction, and that would require for a gigantic gun that would probably be weak seeing as you can't put too many bands on a simple block trigger, and it would be a pain to cock all the pins each time. i might give it another shot sometime, but for now it just seems too unattractive. i broke it apart (didn't really have much built anyway), but i can show you a drawing of what i learned should be done, if you're interested in working on this concept. maybe we could work on it together sometime.
Kinetic (author)  Sharir17015 years ago
Well, because of all that's been going on lately I have been pretty dry on Ideas lately, which is why I am so glad that TD and Oblivitus are giving us some with their new series of challenges. I suggest you look into it as well.

But, I have gotten my new rail guided pump as good as I think it will get, and I could send you some detailed pics if you want to use it in something. It isn't too incredible in itself, but what makes it good is that it is a very useful supplemental concept, as it doesn't take up space that other mechanisms could occupy. I think it could be very useful in a sling repeater or rail system repeater. I will work on that sometime soon, but I am tied up with the "slingshotgun" that TD and Oblivitus came up with. If you want to try that idea that would be great.
as far as i know, they aren't really doing much on the contests side. i say this because i was talking with oblivitus on a more than daily basis about many things, i even offered both of them a few ideas for contests, but neither of them seamed very enthusiastic about having any contest at all, so...

no need... i can see it in the pics. it's really nice, btw, i like it a lot. nice original thinking to use a silver spacer and a male joint half. i might actually use it in something. i think it could be better than the stringer loading system i wanted to use in my closed barreled slingshot. i'm not actually gonna keep on working on it because i remembered why else it wasn't very good or reliable. think about this: the wheel that the string raps around has two holes. both of them need to contain a tan clip to hold the wheel from turning under all the pressure of the band. the string has to be attached to the wheel in a way that doesn't use the holes. the wheel is smooth, so you can't just tie the string around the wheel cause it won't help. i'm not drilling another hole in my wheels. the only conceivable way to attach the string is to super glue it to the wheels, which isn't very powerful. i can't find another solution to this, but if you can, be my guest to try and build it or tell me of your solution.
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