Update on International Entries in Instructables Contests
Currently, we can only accept entries from the US, UK, Australia, Belgium, Canada (excluding Quebec), China, and Netherlands in our contests and challenges. Here's why, and what we're doing to expand.
(EDIT: while we're working on expanding the country list, here's our stop-gap program to reward great projects from international authors. More info here.)
UPDATE 4/18/2012:
Belgium, China, and Netherlands are now eligible for all contests! We've updated the rules to make this clear. More countries coming as fast as we can. --Christy
Broadly, there are two types of contests: games of skill and games of chance. Most of our contests are games of skill because they are judged, but we have occasionally run games of chance (random winner in a contest, random commenter wins a prize, etc..). Both types are regulated, sometimes stringently, across the world.
As an independent entity, we may have been violating the contest and gaming laws in every country on the planet except the US. While ignorance of the law isn't an acceptable reason to violate it, I did not spend the time to understand and comply with every country's contest laws. Without locations across the world, the potential for enforcement of laws I didn't know about was low.
We are now part of an international company, and the potential for enforcement is real.
Complying with laws is not a drag! It's what sustainable businesses that expect to be around for a long time do!
If you are upset about this, before you complain here, please write or call your representative, member of parliament, or dictator and ask them to simplify contest law in your country. The easier to understand your country's contest laws, the faster we can open our contests to you, and comply with your country's laws. Remember, obeying the law is what good websites do!
Autodesk is not trying to destroy the Instructables community by reducing the number of entrants to our contests; in fact, they're very concerned about the issue. We are trying to make sure we obey all the laws of all the countries where we operate. We are simultaneously working to understand the laws of more countries so we can legally run contests in more areas.
The terms and conditions of our contests are now in full compliance with the requirements of the US and Canada, except Quebec. Doing so required many hours of me talking to lawyers, and very large costs.
I have sorted the countries we will work on next by where our traffic comes from, and where past winners and entrants have come from. For reference:
Top 10 Countries by traffic:
US
UK
Canada
Australia
India
Germany
Philippines
Brazil
Mexico
France
Top 10 Countries by winners and entrants:
US
Canada
UK
Australia
Netherlands
Germany
New Zealand
Argentina
Colombia
India
The rules for games of skill and games of chance are drastically different. I foresee a situation where there are countries in which we can run one type of contest, but not the other.
Since we don't collect your country of residence during registration, our method of determining who is eligible is based on where a winner wants us to ship a prize.
Obeying laws is not a drag, but this is a tricky situation. I'll concede that you might view this as a bait and switch: we should have fully understood the contest laws of any country where we wanted to encourage DIY through our contests before allowing entrants from those countries. Instead, we allowed everyone, and now have to pause until I can talk to more lawyers. For that I apologize. Fixing this is one of our top priorities. Even yesterday, I discussed how to get the UK and Australia added to the approved list, and we'll work from there.
(EDIT: while we're working on expanding the country list, here's our stop-gap program to reward great projects from international authors. More info here.)
UPDATE 4/18/2012:
Belgium, China, and Netherlands are now eligible for all contests! We've updated the rules to make this clear. More countries coming as fast as we can. --Christy
Broadly, there are two types of contests: games of skill and games of chance. Most of our contests are games of skill because they are judged, but we have occasionally run games of chance (random winner in a contest, random commenter wins a prize, etc..). Both types are regulated, sometimes stringently, across the world.
As an independent entity, we may have been violating the contest and gaming laws in every country on the planet except the US. While ignorance of the law isn't an acceptable reason to violate it, I did not spend the time to understand and comply with every country's contest laws. Without locations across the world, the potential for enforcement of laws I didn't know about was low.
We are now part of an international company, and the potential for enforcement is real.
Complying with laws is not a drag! It's what sustainable businesses that expect to be around for a long time do!
If you are upset about this, before you complain here, please write or call your representative, member of parliament, or dictator and ask them to simplify contest law in your country. The easier to understand your country's contest laws, the faster we can open our contests to you, and comply with your country's laws. Remember, obeying the law is what good websites do!
Autodesk is not trying to destroy the Instructables community by reducing the number of entrants to our contests; in fact, they're very concerned about the issue. We are trying to make sure we obey all the laws of all the countries where we operate. We are simultaneously working to understand the laws of more countries so we can legally run contests in more areas.
The terms and conditions of our contests are now in full compliance with the requirements of the US and Canada, except Quebec. Doing so required many hours of me talking to lawyers, and very large costs.
I have sorted the countries we will work on next by where our traffic comes from, and where past winners and entrants have come from. For reference:
Top 10 Countries by traffic:
US
UK
Canada
Australia
India
Germany
Philippines
Brazil
Mexico
France
Top 10 Countries by winners and entrants:
US
Canada
UK
Australia
Netherlands
Germany
New Zealand
Argentina
Colombia
India
The rules for games of skill and games of chance are drastically different. I foresee a situation where there are countries in which we can run one type of contest, but not the other.
Since we don't collect your country of residence during registration, our method of determining who is eligible is based on where a winner wants us to ship a prize.
Obeying laws is not a drag, but this is a tricky situation. I'll concede that you might view this as a bait and switch: we should have fully understood the contest laws of any country where we wanted to encourage DIY through our contests before allowing entrants from those countries. Instead, we allowed everyone, and now have to pause until I can talk to more lawyers. For that I apologize. Fixing this is one of our top priorities. Even yesterday, I discussed how to get the UK and Australia added to the approved list, and we'll work from there.
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You should include Finland to your list. To here you can send everything exept Drugs, nicotine and alcohol(nicotine and alcohol only inside EU) and guns. And if it is a price won from some contest there is not tax in it because its not something bought from the internet. its a price.
The problem is that the law on who can participate in contests, and how, is different in almost every country on the planet.
ahaa. What if you know that you can participate in contest but your country is not on the list? i mean, there is nothing wrong in that.
Actually, you CAN win the prize, you just can't get it shipped to your country of origin....
(But you can get it shipped to a cooperative person in a "valid" country.)
It has to be shipped to an actual person, who usually needs to sign for valuable prizes.
Hi people! I have a question: now when the TPA with Colombia is fully in vigency, there is a chance for us to be included in the countries allowed for the contests?
Italy actually has a very odd rule: you can't run a contest in Italy AND also allow outside countries to enter. So effectively, you're not allowed to run international contests in Italy.
This is a very clear and specific case where if you'd like to be able to enter a contest on Instructables, you're going to have to get your country to change its laws. Or, you can collaborate with a partner who lives in an eligible country!
This is a very clear and specific case where if you'd like to be able to enter a contest on Instructables, you're going to have to get your country to change its laws. Or, you can collaborate with a partner who lives in an eligible country!
This is not happy news, but I understand the need for this decision.
I was thinking, 1. Why do governments make (complicated) laws on games and extend them to foreign organisations? 2. How can Instructables members and contest participants help?
1. Well, governments make (complicated) laws on games because they want to protect their citizens from organisations running games that are not honest and/or lead to gambling addictions. And of course because they want to raise taxes on them when people pay to participate. The reason this is extended to games of skill is because the line between both is sometimes (intentionally) thin. And of course they need to extend that legislation to foreign organisations offering games to their citizens, as with modern media this would be the obvious way around. It is just another example of the basic mechanism where well meaning people and organisations have to bring up more effort, because people meaning less well, gave rise to a need for regulations.
One important and as such not unreasonable regulation is often that the rules of the game should be published in the official language(s) of the participants country. Obviously that alone represents work for Instructables.
Obviously the country's regulation and legislation itself is also in the official language(s). Not making it easy either.
I guess that in many countries a special case applies when the participants do not have to pay to participate. On the other hand some complicated regulation might exist to determine no indirect or hidden payment mechanisms are involved.
2. I'm afraid that appealing to representatives to simplify legislation is not realistic, as actually there are lot more voices and media attention asking for more regulation, with the protection of the citizen in mind (at least in Europe). Of course, stricter rules do not mean more complex rules, even on the contrary, but the priority in this field is not set on simplification yet.
But we might be able to help in translating to and from our official language? And we might be able to check our local legislation an see in how far Instructables' typical game rules comply? Is that useful or does that need to be done by sworn translators and/or contracted lawyers anyway?
I was thinking, 1. Why do governments make (complicated) laws on games and extend them to foreign organisations? 2. How can Instructables members and contest participants help?
1. Well, governments make (complicated) laws on games because they want to protect their citizens from organisations running games that are not honest and/or lead to gambling addictions. And of course because they want to raise taxes on them when people pay to participate. The reason this is extended to games of skill is because the line between both is sometimes (intentionally) thin. And of course they need to extend that legislation to foreign organisations offering games to their citizens, as with modern media this would be the obvious way around. It is just another example of the basic mechanism where well meaning people and organisations have to bring up more effort, because people meaning less well, gave rise to a need for regulations.
One important and as such not unreasonable regulation is often that the rules of the game should be published in the official language(s) of the participants country. Obviously that alone represents work for Instructables.
Obviously the country's regulation and legislation itself is also in the official language(s). Not making it easy either.
I guess that in many countries a special case applies when the participants do not have to pay to participate. On the other hand some complicated regulation might exist to determine no indirect or hidden payment mechanisms are involved.
2. I'm afraid that appealing to representatives to simplify legislation is not realistic, as actually there are lot more voices and media attention asking for more regulation, with the protection of the citizen in mind (at least in Europe). Of course, stricter rules do not mean more complex rules, even on the contrary, but the priority in this field is not set on simplification yet.
But we might be able to help in translating to and from our official language? And we might be able to check our local legislation an see in how far Instructables' typical game rules comply? Is that useful or does that need to be done by sworn translators and/or contracted lawyers anyway?
Thanks for your offer to help! If I can figure out a way for you to help, I'll ask.
By the way, Belgium is 11th on the list of countries by winners, so you are not forgotten!
By the way, Belgium is 11th on the list of countries by winners, so you are not forgotten!
Would this say that I can enter any contest at the moment if i'm from Belgium?
Are middle eastern countries ( Saudi Arabia Bahrain and Jordan ) on the bottom of the list and if not what country is on the bottom of the list and where are the middle eastern countries?
I don't know that we've had any winners from those 3 countries yet, but we still hope to have some in the future!
You're welcome, but more important thank YOU, four all your efforts.
Masynmachine, thank YOU (and all other Instructable members) for posting such great projects. Great projects make Instructables such a great place to be.
Please!!!!!! Don't forget Colombia!!!!!!!!! :-)
Thanks friends!!!! :-)
Thanks friends!!!! :-)
I currently reside on Panama, but I will be moving to study in a US college this fall. Is there a way for me to participate in a contest and if I win (a big IF); my prices held by instructables until I move? or should i just wait until I move before participating?
If you already have a contact address in the US, you can give it now, and pick your prize up when you get there.
Apr 9, 2012. 7:09 AMmarrogante
says:
Hello excuse me for barging in but I'm just curious, when will the Philippines be able to join such contests?
Hoping for a reply
Thanks. God bless!
Hoping for a reply
Thanks. God bless!
Mar 23, 2012. 1:39 AMEvent Horizon
says:
So Philippines is listed in the top 10 countries by traffic. Does this mean entries from the Philippines a legible?
Man India should get included soon I want to enter the arduino challenge
"...Top 10 Countries by winners and entrants:
US
Canada
UK
Australia
Netherlands
Germany..."
Does this mean I can even join a challenge if I live in a country which isn't integrated yet?
Whats the different than living in a country which is already alowed?
MFG
US
Canada
UK
Australia
Netherlands
Germany..."
Does this mean I can even join a challenge if I live in a country which isn't integrated yet?
Whats the different than living in a country which is already alowed?
MFG
Since the lawyers are working on the job "now", it's OK to enter a contest you are not officially eligible for.
The site does not officially know where you live until you tell them, which means that, should you win a contest you are not eligible to enter, you can give them an address of a friend in an eligible country, and your friend can mail the prize onwards to you.
Or, maybe, your country becomes eligible between your entry and the deadline...
The site does not officially know where you live until you tell them, which means that, should you win a contest you are not eligible to enter, you can give them an address of a friend in an eligible country, and your friend can mail the prize onwards to you.
Or, maybe, your country becomes eligible between your entry and the deadline...
Thanks, too. What a pity though.
But at least, having the chance to have a friend forward any price seems ok.
But at least, having the chance to have a friend forward any price seems ok.
I just want to add a shout for minority countries: South Africa!!!
While winning a contest is statistically slim, at least being allowed to try is a good start. :)
While winning a contest is statistically slim, at least being allowed to try is a good start. :)
Oct 30, 2011. 3:50 PMnodnodwinkwink
says:
Just a query about the UK.
If you're an Irish person, *normally* you'd prefer not to be lumped in with the UK because we've had our disagreements in the past.
But in the case of instructable competitions i personally wouldn't mind a whole lot.
So basically, are we or aren't we lumped in with the UK in this case?
Thanks.
If you're an Irish person, *normally* you'd prefer not to be lumped in with the UK because we've had our disagreements in the past.
But in the case of instructable competitions i personally wouldn't mind a whole lot.
So basically, are we or aren't we lumped in with the UK in this case?
Thanks.
Are we any closer to having some other countries added to the eligible list?
Update! We finally got feedback from the UK/Australia lawyers yesterday afternoon, and are now working over the rules to incorporate their edits. Should be able to give ETA after tomorrow's lawyer meeting.
*Does a little dance*
When it's sorted, you'll need to clarify the situation regarding contests that have already begun - specifically, if a Brit has already entered an already-running contest, will they be able to legitimately win a prize?
When it's sorted, you'll need to clarify the situation regarding contests that have already begun - specifically, if a Brit has already entered an already-running contest, will they be able to legitimately win a prize?
Oooowwwwww, this rips me apart!!! I'm glad to hear other countries are eligible now, and at the same time it makes me jealous... I want to be able to take part as well. Please, please pleeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzz? I want to EEK! just like Kiteman does...
We are working on it - Netherlands is on the list above.
But do notice it took two months to get UK and AUS approved. I hope we can move faster, but we have to consult outside lawyers in each country - this means I can't stop by their offices and hurry them up, so sometimes it's very slow. :( I want to be able to send more prizes - hopefully soon!
But do notice it took two months to get UK and AUS approved. I hope we can move faster, but we have to consult outside lawyers in each country - this means I can't stop by their offices and hurry them up, so sometimes it's very slow. :( I want to be able to send more prizes - hopefully soon!
Canida, I watch the announcements of FANTASTIC new contests go by and by. So I started counting: If it took you two months to include UK and AUS, it will be 2014 before NL will be included... if it ever will.
I'm sorry to say, but I feel left out by the way you're handling this issue. Big time.
I'm sorry to say, but I feel left out by the way you're handling this issue. Big time.
Owwwwwww, you deserve a big hug now! Someday I'll come over and bring it to you.
I'm going to change my avatar right now!
Big big smile from overseas!
I'm going to change my avatar right now!
Big big smile from overseas!
You can still enter my contest!
Most recent projects are eligible.
Most recent projects are eligible.
:-D I hadn't noticed your guerilla-contest yet! Thanks, I will enter!
Oct 13, 2011. 7:58 AMsyribia
says:
If you need some help in looking for Mexico game rules and making translations, please let me know. I'll be happy to help!
Meanwhile I have question: I live in Mexico but I have a friend address in the USA where you can ship the prizes (in the case I win some), can I participate in the contests?
Meanwhile I have question: I live in Mexico but I have a friend address in the USA where you can ship the prizes (in the case I win some), can I participate in the contests?
Oct 12, 2011. 8:03 PMdexhand
says:
Hoping that someday, very soon, Indonesia will become eligible country. Hoping so much.
You have until Sunday to enter the International Go-Pro Contest.
Entry requirements are flexible, and there are year-long pro memberships up for grabs.
Click here to see the rules and enter.
Entry requirements are flexible, and there are year-long pro memberships up for grabs.
Click here to see the rules and enter.
wow... wonder where / if Iceland is on the list :-/
I have been super busy over the last few months with school and other things so I haven't been here in quite a while and I really can't believe this has happened...
Hope you guys will be able to fix this and return everything back to normal :D
I have been super busy over the last few months with school and other things so I haven't been here in quite a while and I really can't believe this has happened...
Hope you guys will be able to fix this and return everything back to normal :D
Iceland is on the list, but unfortunately not at the top - just a simple matter of numbers.
In the meantime, we can still send you things if you post awesome projects. Check out the info here.
In the meantime, we can still send you things if you post awesome projects. Check out the info here.
Hi! I'm from Colombia. I have a question: while the rest of countries are unlocked for the contests, we could participate if we have a related one who lives in US or Australia and could receive the prize for us?
Yes, you can. That is, you could before the Autodesk takeover. I won a prize in the Monster-contest, in february '11. That was a US-only contest, I had the prize shipped to my niece, who lives in the US. Her kids have spent HOURS building monsters with the prize :-)
Hi,
Hope the work to include international entries is going well. I thought I'd post a link here that discusses Australian competition requirements:
http://www.digitaldialogue.com.au/online-competition-permits-australia
So far as I can see, if an online competition involves skill rather than chance a permit is not required in any Australian state or territory. I realise that there may be other legal issues to look at other than just permits, but it's a start.
Hope the work to include international entries is going well. I thought I'd post a link here that discusses Australian competition requirements:
http://www.digitaldialogue.com.au/online-competition-permits-australia
So far as I can see, if an online competition involves skill rather than chance a permit is not required in any Australian state or territory. I realise that there may be other legal issues to look at other than just permits, but it's a start.
Thanks! We've finished up the Australia rules mods, so post away. :)
Is an "Australian rules contest" anything like "Australian rules football"? And if so, why did it take so long? ;->
It's exactly the same thing!
Most of our time was spent running marketing surveys to determine whether "australian rules Instructables" could gain traction outside the colonies.
Most of our time was spent running marketing surveys to determine whether "australian rules Instructables" could gain traction outside the colonies.
To the entire Staff at Instructables:
YOU'RE THE GREATEST!!!
YOU'RE THE GREATEST!!!
VIVA COLOMBIA!!!!! :-)
I love you guys!!! Instructables is the BEST!!!!!
I love you guys!!! Instructables is the BEST!!!!!
Colombia has a remarkably large number of contest winners! Nice work. ;)
Yes? How many? I thought we are only two colombian constest winners: Mr. Sanchez and me :-)
To clarify: Colombians win a large number of contests, meaning that the two of you do extremely well.
Yay, I see the UK and Australia are now added in the latest contests (photo edit and Hack it)
That news adds a question for me though, does that mean we can now enter the existing contests or will we only be able to enter new contests as they are added?
Great news though guys, thank you
That news adds a question for me though, does that mean we can now enter the existing contests or will we only be able to enter new contests as they are added?
Great news though guys, thank you
Yes, it just took us a while to get the updates through because we were also launching Halloween. Go to it!
http://www.animationmagazine.net/vfx/chinese-artist-wins-autodesk-rendering-revolution-contest/
With winners from China, Germany, and Italy, clearly Autodesk has some "boiler plate" contest terms and conditions. I'm going to go yell at lawyers right now.
With winners from China, Germany, and Italy, clearly Autodesk has some "boiler plate" contest terms and conditions. I'm going to go yell at lawyers right now.
Autodesk paid an international contest agency a "boatload of money" to run this 3DS Max contest in a way that wouldn't run afoul of any country-specific restrictions. The work unfortunately does not appear to be directly applicable to other contests. The legal team is very concerned with opening up eligibility in the wrong way, because doing so exposes the company to monetary sanctions and in some cases even criminal liability. In this context, I heard an anecdote about an advertising campaign run by another company that ran afoul of India's obscenity laws; when an executive of the company landed in India, he was held in prison for a week while a settlement was reached. This is an example parade-of-horribles that has lawyers all worked up over the way we previously ran contests, even if not directly applicable.
The good news is that I have the attention of the top brass and they understand and value the reasons I want to open up eligibility. Further, Autodesk marketing wants to do more international contests themselves, so there are many parties interested in finding a solution.
The good news is that I have the attention of the top brass and they understand and value the reasons I want to open up eligibility. Further, Autodesk marketing wants to do more international contests themselves, so there are many parties interested in finding a solution.
Now that's progress!
I'm certain there is no need to reinvent the wheel here.
Don't forget that the lawyers are working for Instructables. Not the other way round. If they aren't doing the job properly give them the old heave-ho and find someone who is solution driven.
Here's another world famous and highly regarded group that runs international competitions to make use of international talent.
http://www.kaggle.com/
There must be hundreds of others.
Good luck.
I'm certain there is no need to reinvent the wheel here.
Don't forget that the lawyers are working for Instructables. Not the other way round. If they aren't doing the job properly give them the old heave-ho and find someone who is solution driven.
Here's another world famous and highly regarded group that runs international competitions to make use of international talent.
http://www.kaggle.com/
There must be hundreds of others.
Good luck.
Australia is now officially on the contest list!
Good luck. ;)
Good luck. ;)
My father has a lot of dealings with corporate-type lawyers.
He finds that the most efficient way to get his point across is to shout at them and threaten gross physical violence.
"What do you have if a room full of lawyers are buried up to their necks in sand?"
(Not enough sand)
He finds that the most efficient way to get his point across is to shout at them and threaten gross physical violence.
"What do you have if a room full of lawyers are buried up to their necks in sand?"
(Not enough sand)
I told this one to my dad (an ex lawyer), and he gave the answer before I could. At least they (well, some of them) have a sense of humor (note the correct spelling on humor).
Yay! Go sic Robot on them! Robot does have an override switch so that lawyers are exempted from the Three Laws, right?
Eric, it's been a week since your last comment on this lovely subject. Do you have any news yet? Or should I start another drawing ;-)
Y.
Y.
I am knocking myself out to get this done. I spent 2.5 hours in meetings with lawyers today, and should have updates on UK and Australia beginning of next week.
Good news for you: Netherlands is now 8th in traffic, so moving up the priority list.
Good news for you: Netherlands is now 8th in traffic, so moving up the priority list.
Good to hear! Thanks for replying. Stand strong in meeting the lawyers!
Y.
Y.
Update on our stopgap solution: http://www.instructables.com/community/Good-news-for-International-Authors/
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aug 23, 2011. 4:05 AMjochemspek
says:
"Remember, obeying the law is what good websites do!"
oemf, sorry ? with all due respect, that's what knights of morality in shiny capitalistic armor do.
-this comment probably doesn't comply with the "be nice policy" but it should, because I'm not being nasty, it's how I and many people feel about this.
Thanks to Fungus Amungus, I started a "30 day project". I make a drawing every day, for 30 days. Today's drawing was easy :-P
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