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Last year i made a carbon fibre violin ,
I started out by drawing a violin on paper , working out the curve heights , plotting the lot on paper ,
Once i had my plans drawn it was time to start making moulds , the violin plate moulds started as block of plaster , that i routed out and fine carved to produce a "plug" , the 1st mould was taken off that , then fine finishing the top and bottom plate mould took about 1 month , and i still had a lot of fibreglass moulds to make , rib mould , neck mould , finger board mould, they all take time. ,
To have a Shop Bot would be a huge help with the mould making , change the shape slightly on the CAD drawings ,rerun CAM , and watch the Shop Bot produce its magic on HDPE ( only a dream )., using a Shop Bot to draw perf lines , and trim the carbon fibre , i wish i could afford one .
The first plates i made from carbon fibre were way to stiff , "tap tone's " told me it was better used as a brass bell than a violin , after producing about 10 violin plates i was getting into the ball park of tone , a combination of different materials , laid down in different thicknesses in different areas produced a violin front and back plate i was happy with .
I used the infusion method of carbon fibre making , were you lay all your layers up dry and vacuum bag it , once the vacuum is over 25hg (-12psi) you open the tap to the resin , and the vacuum pulls the resin into the carbon fibre fabric , the laying up of the rib mould took me 5 hours each side to get the fabric to sit in the right position , very fiddly ( pardon the pun) .
The gluing jig was made from MDF with 10mm cup heads sticking through , designed to allow side ways positioning of the rib and neck parts , and the holding down clamps for the top and bottom , the centre part of the jig was removed to glue the top on, with the 4 hour set time of the resin ,its important to keep it all firmly heard in position.
The cutting and shaping of the f holes is another reason they call them fiddles , carbon fibre is a bugger to cut , found that if you submerge the carbon fibre in water and use a Flexi Drive bit holder on a Dremmel, it keeps every thing cold , and produces no dust , just ware a rain coat
After a final coat of clear and a polish it was ready to string up and hand over too some who who could play it , ive had grate feed back and a few offers for this violin and at the moment are remoulding for violin 2 ,working on the 2nd set of plans now ,drawing them up on a low budget Cad , AutoCAD would be a big leap for me and used with a Shop Bot would speed up design changes 100 fold , and allow me to produce Cello's and Violas .
All up it took me 10 months of Sundays , from the time i decided to start to finished product , i had never made a violin before , and my carbon fibre skills were below basic , it was a huge learning curve but between the info on the net and getting your hands dirty and " givin it a go" , anything is possible
Dont forget to vote for this ,
by Ken Van Laatum
I started out by drawing a violin on paper , working out the curve heights , plotting the lot on paper ,
Once i had my plans drawn it was time to start making moulds , the violin plate moulds started as block of plaster , that i routed out and fine carved to produce a "plug" , the 1st mould was taken off that , then fine finishing the top and bottom plate mould took about 1 month , and i still had a lot of fibreglass moulds to make , rib mould , neck mould , finger board mould, they all take time. ,
To have a Shop Bot would be a huge help with the mould making , change the shape slightly on the CAD drawings ,rerun CAM , and watch the Shop Bot produce its magic on HDPE ( only a dream )., using a Shop Bot to draw perf lines , and trim the carbon fibre , i wish i could afford one .
The first plates i made from carbon fibre were way to stiff , "tap tone's " told me it was better used as a brass bell than a violin , after producing about 10 violin plates i was getting into the ball park of tone , a combination of different materials , laid down in different thicknesses in different areas produced a violin front and back plate i was happy with .
I used the infusion method of carbon fibre making , were you lay all your layers up dry and vacuum bag it , once the vacuum is over 25hg (-12psi) you open the tap to the resin , and the vacuum pulls the resin into the carbon fibre fabric , the laying up of the rib mould took me 5 hours each side to get the fabric to sit in the right position , very fiddly ( pardon the pun) .
The gluing jig was made from MDF with 10mm cup heads sticking through , designed to allow side ways positioning of the rib and neck parts , and the holding down clamps for the top and bottom , the centre part of the jig was removed to glue the top on, with the 4 hour set time of the resin ,its important to keep it all firmly heard in position.
The cutting and shaping of the f holes is another reason they call them fiddles , carbon fibre is a bugger to cut , found that if you submerge the carbon fibre in water and use a Flexi Drive bit holder on a Dremmel, it keeps every thing cold , and produces no dust , just ware a rain coat
After a final coat of clear and a polish it was ready to string up and hand over too some who who could play it , ive had grate feed back and a few offers for this violin and at the moment are remoulding for violin 2 ,working on the 2nd set of plans now ,drawing them up on a low budget Cad , AutoCAD would be a big leap for me and used with a Shop Bot would speed up design changes 100 fold , and allow me to produce Cello's and Violas .
All up it took me 10 months of Sundays , from the time i decided to start to finished product , i had never made a violin before , and my carbon fibre skills were below basic , it was a huge learning curve but between the info on the net and getting your hands dirty and " givin it a go" , anything is possible
Dont forget to vote for this ,
by Ken Van Laatum
violin 1.mp3598 KB
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Signing UpStep 1Plan what you want to make
After purchasing a good violin making book or 2 , i set out to draw a violin ,not an easy thing to do.
All the compass work comes from a single measurement , the centre measurement of a violin bridge's feet ,that measurement is ether 2x 4x ect and the shape comes to life with the golden spiral rules .
The length and 8 widths were measured and the curve shape plotted , the 8 different width positions have different heights set from the length curve , once all the curves were plotted it was redrawn on a second plan as 2mm contours so a router could rough out the Plug for the mould
EDIT : 3.34AM 10th12/11
I down loaded a Mp3 of the open strings of this violin to make all the rioting people happy ,
please take the time to log in and vote for this instructable, as it is a competition , and I would like to win :-)
All the compass work comes from a single measurement , the centre measurement of a violin bridge's feet ,that measurement is ether 2x 4x ect and the shape comes to life with the golden spiral rules .
The length and 8 widths were measured and the curve shape plotted , the 8 different width positions have different heights set from the length curve , once all the curves were plotted it was redrawn on a second plan as 2mm contours so a router could rough out the Plug for the mould
EDIT : 3.34AM 10th12/11
I down loaded a Mp3 of the open strings of this violin to make all the rioting people happy ,
please take the time to log in and vote for this instructable, as it is a competition , and I would like to win :-)
violin 1.mp3598 KB| « Previous Step | Download PDFView All Steps | Next Step » |
Actually, if you read carefully, you'll find that serious and informed instrument makers basically agree that wood species has little effect on the sound. It's aesthetically important, and there are some limited structural differences. However, in general, which hardwood you choose doesn't have much effect on the sound.
I havn't analysed the sample that have been posted, but it's satisfying to me like that. But the question was HOW! I didn't question if that is possible...
no there is no wood in them
Sorry, didn't mean to put the beat down on you for not knowing. I read all about making guitars (Engineering the Guitar, for example, by RM French) and because it's the interwebs, I decided to proclaim my vast armchair knowledge in a authorative tone. Oh, and you can confirm these claims on mimr.com, too.
Anyhoo, it's nice to see such a professional-looking project posted here.
Also there is acustic testing (resonance) for the top and bottom parts for minimalise disortion. the top part get the resonance and the soundpost convey it to the bottom part which bouncing it back to amplify the sound and it comes out through the f-holes mostly.
The shape of the f-holes are trasitional, but the size is what counts in the loudness of the instrument. The size of the top and bottom part is matters in the pitch and this is something about wavelenghts. (it's a long story...)
And the inside shape of the surface of the top and bottom parts are critical becouse it ballances back the desortion caused by the f-holes, the soundpost and the bass bar. And this is why it should be resonance tested.
Even orientation of the wood pieces counts. Yes even the top part can't be build from 1 part. It's esential to get the parts from a specific place from the chunk of wood...
It's really complicated to do it right and thats making the difference in price, not the brand or the materials. (The test is really simple, but finetune is like hell and needs good skills in woodwork.) The cheap violines comes from factories aren't finetuned just copied over and over.
the size of the fholes ,is important , and must be tuned , the internal volume of air to fhole area is critical , look up " hemholts resonance " , the 4 small areas around the fholes should be thin enough to flex , each one a diffident amount of flexibility
carbon fibre resonates so much even the finger board has to be tuned
an easy guide line to start hacking a way at
On the resonance testing from my last post, here is an indepth description on Chladni patterns that help finetune the violins body - and there arre other instruments as well if you are curious. :)
I started off by tap tone , ( hit the plate with your knuckle and listen ) , lol my 1st all carbon plate rang like a brass bell ( not a good start )
after about 10 plates i was getting there , i was also using a tuning fork on the plates ( instead of the knuckle ) , and went on to the Chladni process over a speaker , using salt to show the lines
i have had no formal training in violin making , learnt every thing off the bits and peace's off the net ,
ok ok , ill dig it out of the shed and restring it , tune it up and play it to the best of my ability , 4 open string notes , i can manage that , the bugs are a bit loud now , but it would be better than traffic during the day , im on to it
i've been a huge fan of carbon fiber for at least 20 years, and i've done a very small bit of work with cf here and their along with standard composites like fiberglass. to be able to work with it and get the tone quality you have, that's just fantastic.
i hope you keep the lovely instruments coming. i'd love to see a bass. :)
keep dreaming, keep creating,
av
I'd love to know what it weighs and how thick the plates are etc in comparison with a timber instrument. As well, of course, as how it sounds!
Interesting that the one part you didn't make from carbon was the bridge - was that because a carbon bridge gave a poor tone, or just because it looks great with normal bridge!?
Even more interesting might be a carbon bow - the weight of the bow must be significant in some fast pieces and a minimal weigth carbon bow might allow some techniques that are hardly accessable with a normal bow.
Thanks for posting - superb work.
i live in the tropics ( 12deg south of the equator ) the tropical weather up here will destroy a timber violin in one wet season ( 3 meters of rain last wet season ( 5 months ) ) , so i figger there is a market for good sounding indestructible violins for students
all up with out strings ,pegs , chin rest , tail peace , it weighed 348grams , i could probably shave another 50grams out of the neck / finger board with no real affect ( its sold as a rock , even served a tennis ball with it ,
the top and bottom plates rage from 0.8mm - 1.2 , there is a lot of grading in the plates
ribs are 0.5mm thick , sound paper thin when you tap on them
the sound post is carbon fibre
the pegs , ( strings) tailpeace , chin rest , bridge are all normal violin peace's , not carbon fibre ,
the bridge is critical for the sound , even changing the type of timber will affect the tone , i plan in playing around with the bridge on the next batch , but i expect it will be like the the plates , 2 months of tinkering to get it right , but a carbon bridge would make it weather proof , if every thing is carbon / composite you wouldn't have to slacken off the strings for storage
with the sound / video , well i dont have have one , and a mobile phone recording would be useless , so when i get one , ill post it ,
as for price , i never kept track of it , with the R&D and all i still believe im less than 1/2 the cost of the "brand" on the market now ,
once the moulds are made and jigs are made , the materials would be as low as $200 but thats not paying for my time , and carbon fibre is very labour intensive at every stage
I kniw a guy who was friends with a guy who had a cantract with a museam for 3mill to make 5 carbonfiber benches. its crazy
and that just to sit on...
yer what you say is about what every one who played it says , apart from the " how much " and " what , thats your first "
i wont sell this one until i agree that number 2?3?4? 25 is better , then rent it out , keep control of the " make " so i can personally recall the early ones when i nail the sound
ive got 5 pro's that are my testers , free rent on hack violins i promised , ill get a video of them thrashing it , man metalica never sounded so good from one of them , shredded bows and all , they all wanted to bye this one ( tropics here ) so came up with
i make them , lend them ones to thrash , bring them new and improved ones , and let them keep the one they have or up grade , and i get free testers , just need decent video camera and sound
I can see it now; The Stradivarius of Carbon! You can do this!!!!
i purchased the CT scans of 3 stradivarius violins , and want to CAD them up and try some , looking at his plate variations is an education in its self , and de lamination of the rib wall ????? did he not glue it on purpose , a .5mm gap in the rib wall next to the corner block , another thing to try
I have a painting by this elderly lady gave to my mom as she was starting to learn. Not worth much really. But, as the years have gone by, her work now is worth something. Maybe one day that little beginning art will end up being worth the most!
Interesting on the de-laminated part. Seems maybe it act as some type of tone/vibration damper/muffler to provide a more mellow tone instead of a more Tin Can type sound??? Hard to find good comparisons.
I myself am going to research this more, thanks for the insight!
I truly believe;
Teachers are learners and learners are teachers!
wer cen i bay the ct scanes
thenks
has
"Plowden" by J.Guarneri 1735
"Willemotte" by A.Stradivari 1734
"Titian" by A Stradivari 1715
a lot of info , they 3d laser scanned the surface while notes were played , and the DVD gets right into the f hole movement , and rib movement
you have to strip the single fames of the CT scans out of the video's but there about every 2mm , they didnt make it easy to reproduce there violins