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Here's a project that uses some of those dead hard drives you've got lying around. In the Tesla Turbine, air, steam, oil, or any other fluid is injec...
Step 1 should probably be to disassemble some hard drives but I assume that if you read Make, you've already figured out how to un-Make a hard drive.T...
The ideal spacing between the platters depends on several variables including the fluid viscosity, velocity, and temperature. You could go through th...
This is just a piece of aluminum stock turned on a lathe. The center diameter is about .98" (which is the inside diameter of the platters) and about ...
The collars are made from more aluminum stock are wider versions of the platter spacers. The inside diameter is also .98" but they're about .3" thick...
Center the platters, spacers, and collars on the shaft and tighten the set screws to hold everything together. I used 11 platters, and 10 spacers. T...
This is a 4.75" x 4.75" x 2" piece of acrylic that was bored out on a lathe using a 4 jaw chuck. The intake hole is taped for a 1/4" pipe fitting and...
The side panels are 4.75" x 4.75" x 0.47" acrylic with untaped .25" holes to screw to the main chamber. The center hole is 0.6" and the counterbore i...
Please post (or email me) any questions or comments and I'll do my best to answer them. Thanks for reading, Steven
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May 25, 2006
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and the perpetual motion comments? LMAO!!
If perpetual in the sense of forever, well highly improbable.
As to coupled occilator's with irreversible flows it happens in biology.
Thermodynamics
While the 1st law seems on the sturdiest ground experimentally.
The 2nd law as applied to thermodynamics is about energy density. Objects at a particular temperature if unrestricted by activation energies move spontaneously from high to low, and from dense to less dense.
3rd law that you can never break even except at 0 Kelvin is the add on law that may be cracked and or found exceptions too. Zeroth Law is just common sense as the commutative law of addition. It sets T.
3rd law is valid when considering reversible flows, but if one looks at coupled occilator s using irreversible flows out of phase one can see immediately that this is not necessarily so.
As to Boltzman you can argue that with irreversible flows that the state is not exactly returned to the same probabilistic state as before, but the averages can be! Think about that! That fits right in with Poincare thinking which informed Boltzmans work. So there is times arrow locally and as we extend the domain we get back to symmetry. Something exhibited in the real world, in chaos theory, and many other physical phenomena. Geometrically we can think of fractals.
So while it is true that in a simple expression of reversible processes the 3rd law is true, that we can only break even at 0 K and also can never reach 0 K because of Zeroth. We can always couple irreversible flows, which from a probabilistic standpoint cannot return to original state, but from a physical energy standpoint can return to the same average energy.
Awesome project, really :) I wanna try it!
Still, nothing is impossible.
And perpetual motion means that the machine generates more energy than it uses, which at 0 for 0 it wouldn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage
Get them working at Standard Temps and you will have yourself a Nobel Prize.
E-5+5=E
E is energy
-5 is the amount of energy required to keep it going
+5 is the amount of energy produced
Now imagine there's a load of 1 on it
E-6+5=E-1
It will slow.
The reason the battery has not worn down yet is its a very good regenerator.
Also you could have thermal power as in a coupled chemical occilator which would pass its thermal energy back and forth for a very long time and its resulting fluid power from the phase change would be greater than the losses of the thermal energy.
It's not perpetual, in that in time you will lose mass and you will lose energy, but if most of the energy is internal and insulated it can continue for a long time as long as it gets the small kick.
The best that can be done is highly regenerative systems which are coupled occilators.
In the end you only delay the inevitable.
such a cruel world.
In 16 billion years it will stabilise, the moon's orbit will be 1.6 times that of today and an earth day will be 55 current days long. You might then see the moon's orbit start to decay. But in 7 billon years the sun will be a red giant and destroy the earth and moon, so it's all academic.
strict definition: continuing or enduring forever.
practical definition: continuing an extremely long time.
Satellites are still in contact with a very thin atmosphere and so the orbit will decay. They aren't really in space.
Since the orbit of planets and moons will last billions of years, for all practical purposes it may as well be perpetual. It is of course not "true" perpetual motion as it will not last forever.
Yes, there will always be losses in any system (current physics) but it is the scale of the losses compared to the energy in the system that will determine how long the system will be in motion.
For me billions of years is practically perpetual motion.
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it would be very useful, if it were possible...
It would need to spin at very high rpm or be very heavy. The problem is the bigger the flywheel the stronger the magnetic bearings need to be, I think there were/are limits to this and you could not make a large enough device to be practical. Also a large flywheel would need to be stationary as any large movments might cause the magnetic bearings to make physical contact. With the energies involved that could literally rip the device apart (explode).
The size of a flywheel to hold the same amount as a car battery would probably be much bigger and heavier than a car battery. Even if you could make it small enough you would never get 100% efficiency due to electrical resistance, magnetic "friction", etc. A room tempreture super conductor would solve some of these problems, and make it very efficient.
It seems chemical storage at the moment is a more practical solution. Chemical batteries are fairly simple devices and easy to make. Batteries are becoming smaller with greater capacities every year. New technologies will make them even more so.
They have a higher energy density storage than conventional batteries.
Also Ultracaps can't store the energy density but the can charge and discharge large amounts of power quickly with low ESR. Low ESR = essentially resistance to discharging their power. Conventional batteries if you try to discharge to quick will heat up and resist discharging.
Yes but losses tend to go up too. However if you had room temperature superconductors and you spun in an absolute vacuum. (Absolute vacuum being impossible) You could accelerate to the speed of light, except what would you make the material from? But if you could and couple the two of them together, but then the problem would be switching which would be limited to the speed of light.
Information problem.
argh Nature gets you again. Now if you can find away around the speed limit of the Universe.... ? Happy hunting.
Motors and generators are not 100% efficient. The best motors are about 95% efficient and the best generators about 80%. The rest of the energy is lost to heat and noise.
The Tesla turbine is also not 100% efficient, let's assume it is 90 %.
So if you put 100 units of energy into the motor, you get 95 units out to turn the turbine. The turbine then outputs 85.5 units of energy (95 x 90%) into the other turbine, which outputs 76.95 units of energy (85.5 x x90%).
This turns the generator which outputs 61.56 units of energy (76.95 x 80%) which is fed back into the motor ad the cycle begins again.
So your system runs down very quickly.
Also if this system was a coupled occilator where the natural reaction is pressure out of phase with temperature such that they could never reach equilibrium unless they lost mas or heat, what would you have?
I should say this is academic as there is no perfect insulator or seal.
But there are chemical systems which act in this manner and they require only small energy inputs from the outside to make up for losses. Their energy flows are much higher, how does one explain this. Resonance.
And internal energy is conserved and these small energy inputs feed one another. Take a look at the science of chaos or google chemical occilator.
So you can get more energy out of a device than you put in but you cant get more energy out that the entire energy flow of the system!
Think of it as a flow issue. Some of the flow can be converted to work but you cant convert 100% to work and you most certainly cant generate more than the flow. Thing is in dynamic systems you can have a dual flow system.
Say heat and a fluid flow. A chemical occilator passes heat an fluid back and forth but they do this slightly out of phase with one another. In facts its required or they would be at equilibrium. The heat is conserved as is the mass. The fluid flow can drive a turbine and not lose energy. The reason they don't reach equilibrium is that when one evolves a fluid its endothermic and the other is exothermic. In the real world this is temperature sensitive and they always leak mass in enough time.
Although no-one will ever succeed in making it it would be the perfect solution for all the problems we are facing today. Imagine a world where your car powers itself while driving :D One gallon of gass and the thing could run forever :D
That would be pretty sweet :D
IN such a case it may look like you are getting more energy than you put in.
However, you are only inputing energy from the outside for losses.
If you map the internal energy flow you are always getting less energy than the internal flow.
The Famous Carnot engine as it nears optimum has a poor work ratio to the energy flow, even if you had a perfect regenerator.
Ericsson Engine has the greatest work output for a Carnot equivalent.
I was also thinking that if you used a hydraulic accumulator, you could store energy in that system for acceleration and braking, then you wouldn't have to use as much electricity to get the car up to speed. (I saw a video of a vehicle that used one, several years ago.)And you'd have less wear and tear on the motors.
I figure some one out there could figure it out. Hell, if we can make 4g phones that can run your life, we should be able to produce a fully self-powered electric car.
What do you think?
.
A perpetual motion device could be an electric motor attached to an alternator (assuming both are 100% efficient). Once you give it a turn and start the motion initially, that kinetic energy is turned into electricity by the alternator, which powers the motor, which turns the alternator again. It is a 100% efficient setup. If, however, you had the alternator ALSO power even a small LED, then the device would not move perpetually, because some of the energy is "leaking" out through the LED (each time the electricity gets back to the motor, there would be slightly less). If, however, the alternator was SOMEHOW able to convert & output more electrical energy than the kinetic energy put in, then you would have higher than 100% efficiency and would be able to generate power perpetually. That's impossible, though.
Theory is fine for theorists. Obviously one could build perfect machines if they could be made 100% efficient but they can't. Even if one adds devices to retrieve the unwanted output and convert it back to the wanted output there will still be losses. Certain physical laws just must be obeyed.
The electric generator does not consume heat, it consumes the mechanical force generated by the heat acting on the mass flow.
If you had a perfect insulator that would allow no heat to escape and had two chemical occilators occilating between endothermic and exothermic reactions driving the mass flow at a set temperature for evolving a gas...
Ah but no such thing as a perfect insulator, and its only instructive as a thought experiment.
My point is you can with aerogels get a very good insulator, and you can design with regeneration in mind, and therefore have very compact energy efficient machines. Where the only energy input is to make up for the losses.
Another problem with the above example is not only would you need the perfect insulator but permeability would also have to be 0.
Gases like Hydrogen and Helium diffuse through anything, its just a matter of time. H3 III a neet example.
If not, please go and read up on Lenz's Law.
A generator will create a force in the direction that opposes its rotation. The higher the current draw from the generator, the more pronounced the effect.
If you put a generator on any part of the car, there is a braking force. With an alternator, it's not too big, but with anything that generates a large amount of power, it's huge. Think of electromagnetic braking - it converts the car's kinetic energy into electrical energy. That's where it comes from. You can't make energy from nothing.
A 4G phone obeys the laws of physics. Overunity does not.
thanks for your information
very nice
I, too, have an Instructable on how to build a Basic Tesla Turbine...except from CD discs, and CD Spindle...Wish I knew about your instructable when I recently did mine!
For a really different take on the Tesla Turbine check out my new Steampunk Tesla CD Turbine with Pumpkincutter Attachment in action...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoRh8T_VX-Y