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CNG tube salamander stove (salamandra de tubo GNC)

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Hace unos dos meses encontré tirado en un basural (de esos que tienen un gran cartel "PROHIBIDO ARROJAR BASURA") un cilindro de GNC, chico, presuntamente perteneciente a alguno de los varios autos robados que van a parar ahí y terminan en llamas. Con bastante dificultad lo levanté, lo cargué en el baúl del auto y me lo traje a casa, y puse en Instructable una pregunta "¿qué puedo hacer con él?". Hubo varias sugerencias, y finalmente se impuso la idea de hacer una salamandra, porque el gas natural aumentó muchísimo, y mi tallercito puede ser Siberia sin una calefacción.

NOTA: Ver la modificación hecha a la puerta, en http://www.instructables.com/id/Mejorando-la-salamandra-Improving-the-salamander/

About two months ago I found dumped in a landfill (the kind with a big sign "NO LITTERING") a CNG cylinder, little, surely belonging to one of several stolen cars that end up there in flames. With some difficulty I got up it, loaded in the trunk of the car and brought at home. After I put a question on Instructables "What I can do with it?". There were several suggestions, and finally imposed the idea of a salamander, because natural prize gas increased dramatically, and my little shop can be Siberia, without a heater.

NOTE: See modification to the door, in http://www.instructables.com/id/Mejorando-la-salamandra-Improving-the-salamander/
 
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Chango703 months ago

Te lo copio por acá: Magnifico laburo!!!

Tenía la idea de hacer un chulengo el día que muera mi cilindro de GNC.
Quisiera hacer una critica constructiva, muy constructiva....creo.
Para evitar cualquier inconveniente con la madera del techo, (donde pasa el caño del tiraje) tendrías que forrar el caño con material ignífugo. No digo amianto porque está perimido por contaminante, pero hay un material cerámico (tipo manta o paño) que aísla muy bien y esta aprobado para las juntas de estufas de tiro balanceado y cualquier aislación de alta temperatura.
Te agrego también que reglamentariamente está prohibida cualquier ventilación de artefactos a combustión su contacto o cercanía con productos inflamables.

Por lo demás ¡¡Te felicito!! ¡¡ un buen trabajo y muy útil!!

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si, el agujero está hecho, pero lo que se suele hacer es un agujero en la pared a 45 grados. De forma tal que (es dificil describir sin dibujar)..... sea algo asi:
Estufa ( caño vertical)
codo 45 grados
caño a 45 atraviesa la pared
codo 45 grados en el exterior
caño vertical en el exterior a gusto hasta salida a 4 vientos.

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Si; eso cuando no te queda mas remedio que sacar por la pared (sino le agujereas el piso al de arriba ) pero no es obligatorio, tampoco puede tener menos de treinta centímetros antes del primer codo, (pero eso es un tema reglamentario) es mas, los hogares a leña, o los tirajes de parrillas (sin ir mas lejos) son verticales directos.
El tema de la madera (machimbre del techo) es que se enciende alrededor de los 300º y no puede (ni debe) estar en contacto con el caño de salida.
Agrego otro dato: normalmente esas maderas se barnizan o, se les aplica producto mata bichos, ambos sumamente tóxicos al evaporarse, incluso los que son al agua.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I copied it over here : laburo Magnifico !

He had the idea of making a chulengo the day I die my CNG cylinder .

I would like to make a constructive criticism very constructive .... I think.

To avoid any inconvenience to the wooden ceiling (where the pipe passes the print run ) you'd have to line the pipe with fireproof material. I'm not saying that it is outdated asbestos contaminant , but a ceramic material ( blanket or cloth type ) that insulates well and is approved for joints stoves balanced shot and any high temperature insulation .

I also added that any vent combustion appliances or close contact with flammables is statutorily prohibited.

OtherwiseI congratulate you ! Good work and very helpful !

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if the hole is made , but what is usually done is a hole in the wall at 45 degrees. So that (it is difficult to describe without drawing ) ..... is something like this:

Stove (vertical pipe )

Elbow 45 degrees

pipe through the wall 45

Elbow 45 degrees outside

Vertical pipe outside comfortable to Exit 4 winds .

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If ; So when you have no choice but to pull down the wall ( but you agujereas the floor above : mrgreen : ) but not required , nor can it be less than a foot before the first elbow (but that's a regulatory issue ) is more , the fireplaces , grills or runs ( without going too far ) are direct vertical .

The theme of wood ( machimbre roof ) is going on around 300 ° and can not ( and should not) be in contact with the spout .

We add another fact: usually these are varnished woods or is applied product kills bugs, both highly toxic to evaporate , even those that are in the water.

rimar2000 (author)  Chango703 months ago

Gracias, Chango70.

Sí, todo eso que decís es correcto, pero a esta altura no creo que me vaya a poner a modificar nada. En primer lugar, porque luego de dos inviernos observando cuidadosamente si había algún problema con la chimenea, los pocos que surgieron los pude resolver con poco trabajo y casi sin gastar un peso. La madera del techo se chamuscó un poco y nada más, y la separación de algunos milímetros parece ser más que suficiente para evitar que la chimenea siga atacándola. Hay que tener en cuenta que se trata de un taller, la construcción es sumamente básica, con maderas semiduras sin tratar. Por otro lado, encendiendo la salamandra normalmente no existe ninguna posibilidad de que el problema se repita. El chamuscamiento se produjo porque al principio yo la "apuré" demasiado, recargándola de papeles y charamuscas que produjeron una gran cantidad de llama. Eso no conviene en ningún sentido, lo ideal es que la llama sea moderada desde el principio.

Hubiera sido interesante atravesar la pared a 45 grados como sugerís, pero 1) es mucho más trabajo; 2) en ese lugar hay un alero, así que el brazo inclinado hubiera tenido que ser bastante más largo o atravesar igualmente la chapa; 3) por lo que sé, para el tipo de caño que usé no se consiguen accesorios, o sea que iba a tener que hacerlos yo mismo, lo cual me hubiera llevado más de una semana de trabajo.

Lo que sí he visto y me preocupa un poco, es que la ceniza es altamente corrosiva, lo mismo que el humo. El bonete de arriba se agujereó y tuve que reemplazarlo por otro más grueso, y las escamas que caen del interior de la chimenea al golpearla sugieren que en un año o dos esta también se va a agujerear. Pensé que duraría más. Tal vez lo conveniente sería limpiar la ceniza todas las noches, pero por lo general cuando me decido a dejar de trabajar, ya no me quedan ganas de ocuparme de eso.

Nuevamente gracias por el interés que has puesto en el tema. Un abrazo.

Mira, actualmente estoy trabajando en algo parecido a esto:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vblt_kcebdA y para hacer la chimenea pienso usar extiguidores viejos cortados y soldados (por mi bario hay muchos edificios y de vez en cuando sacan a la calle los que no pasan los controles). Lo increíble de este diseño es que se puede sumergir en una pileta en funcionamiento y se esa forma calentar el agua.

Look, I'm currently working on something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vblt_kcebdA and make the fireplace extiguidores I use old cut and welded (my barium many buildings and occasionally take to the streets that do not pass the checks). The amazing thing about this design is that you can dip in a pool running and thus heat the water.

rimar2000 (author)  Chango703 months ago

Tenés suerte de vivir ahí, acá nadie tira ni un corcho usado. Ese tubo de GNC que usé lo hallé tirado en medio de la calle cerca de casa, no tengo idea de por qué alguien decidió tirarlo. Es cierto que una vez cumplida su vida útil está prohibido reutilizarlos, pero como sirven para otras cosas los venden, y piden bastante. Interesantísimo tu diseño!

Chango703 months ago

http://www.gncusers.com.ar/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18036

rimar2000 (author)  Chango703 months ago

El administrador del Sitio requiere que estés registrado y hayas ingresado para ver este foro.

Y no quiero registrarme. Gracias de todos modos.

No entiendo, no podes acceder al link?

rimar2000 (author)  Chango703 months ago

Sí, puedo acceder. Lo que no quiero es registrarme para poder leerlo.

jrek8 months ago
The hole where the chimney goes thru the mezzanine floor is too small. That single wall pipe can turn red hot if the tar that forms inside of it catches fire (and it will). I hope you will consider enlarging it by a couple of inches away from the pipe then sheilding the wood with something like a clay pot or metal sleave. Same thing where it goes through the roof.
Cool stove ;)
rimar2000 (author)  jrek8 months ago
Thanks, jrek, I never thought that. Another solution could be to clean each two or three years the inner of the chimney. I had noticed that pounding the tube, some scales of rust-tar-dirt fall into the salamander sometimes. Perhaps I shall be obliged to repair or replace the tube in one or two years. The walls are 2 mm thick, that is easily penetrable.
MR..1 year ago
WOW!! I love this design. I was thinking of making something similar to this very soon.
rimar2000 (author)  MR..1 year ago
Thanks, MR..

Glad you find useful my instructable.
blkhawk1 year ago
Don Osvaldo, I would like to suggest that you exchange the word "butterfly" on the English text on step 5 for the word "throttle" which in your case is the right translation for your project. I want to ask you if this "salamandra" works with the same principle as a rocket stove. Thank you very much.

Don Osvaldo me gustaria sugerirle que cambie la palabra "butterfly" en el texto en ingles en el paso 5 por la palabra "throttle", la cual es la traduccion correcta en el caso de su proyecto. Quiero preguntarle si esta salamandra trabaja con el mismo principio de la estufa cohete. Muchas gracias.
rimar2000 (author)  blkhawk1 year ago
Thanks blkhawk, done the correction.

I don't know any rocket stove, but it is probable this salamander is one of them. When I feed it with enough fuel (papers, woods, PET, etc) IT ROARS LOUDLY.
I have been interested in building a rocket heater to warm my garage which gets cold at this time of the year. I liked your project very much because it is very well designed. If it roars like you said, it works like a rocket stove/heater. Thank you very much Don Osvaldo!

 Yo he estado interesado en construir una calefaccion cohete para calentar mi garaje, el cual es muy frio durante esta epoca del año. Me gusto mucho su proyecto porque esta muy bien diseñado. Si ruge como usted dice, trabaja como una estufa/calefaccion cohete. ¡Muchisimas gracias Don Osvaldo!
RC Guy2 years ago
nice work
rimar2000 (author)  RC Guy2 years ago
Thanks. Last week I did it an improvement: cut the door in two: one bigger beneath, to clean the ashes each morning and initiate the fire, and other littler up, to feed firewood when the salamander is on. Maybe I will post the instructable.
A beautiful piece of recycling,
and a lovely piece of useful art.
Rimar, where do you live?
Thank you for the inspiration.
~ ricardo
rimar2000 (author)  Ricardo Furioso2 years ago
I live in Argentina, near La Plata city.

Thanks for your kind comment.
Dr Qui2 years ago
Fantastic build Rimar. nice design and build, I was glad to see you burned the paint of your tank before you painted it black, I didn't and the yellow paint eventually bubbled and lifted and I had to grind the old paint of with a flap disk.

Glad to see you got this one featured, of all of my Ibles My wood stove was the one i really wanted to get a feature for as its the thing I'm proudest of so far, but such is life, you screw 2 ball bearings together and it an instant hit and  gets 75k hits so far

I laughed when i saw the frying pan as the ash pan, I also use an old saucepan as a ash pan too, must be universal thinking.

Let the ashes build up in the bottom they help hold heat and slow the burn time down which saves fuel, just remove enough to let some air in, I only clean my stove out when the grate get blocked up with old nails and screws from the scrap timber I burn.

Very nice steel work on the grate and the overall build, I went down the rough and tough re-bar road when i make my grate a i didnot know how long it would last before it burned out, iiit is still hold out well 5 years down the line.

I fitted a larger flue in 2 sections so it could be dismantled if it ever blocks again, i will post a few soon as I'm in the process of clearing out and changing the layout of my shed, I will post a Ible of the various things I have changed.

Save your sawdust and wood shavings and all your old newspapers and make your own fuel bricks. Check out my Ible on Bio Fuel Briquettes.

I lined my wood stove with 3/4" of fire cement, that really help hold the heat for a few hours after the fire has died out. Its an option if you find the tank loses heat to quickly when the fire is out.

The warmest feeling you will get from it is when people find out that you built it yourself. everyone who has seen my wood stove thinks that it was store bought.

Fantástico Rimar construcción. buen diseño y construcción, me alegré de ver que queman la pintura de su tanque antes de pintar de negro, yo no, y la pintura amarilla con el tiempo burbujeaba y se levantó y tuve que rectificar la pintura vieja con un disco de la solapa.

Me alegra ver que tienes éste aparece, de todos mis ibles Mi estufa de leña era la que yo realmente quería tener una función de como lo estoy más orgulloso hasta ahora, pero así es la vida, te equivocas 2 rodamientos de bolas juntos y en un éxito instantáneo y se pone 75K éxitos hasta el momento

Me reí cuando vi la sartén como el cenicero, yo también uso una olla vieja como un cenicero también, debe ser el pensamiento universal.

Que las cenizas se acumulan en el fondo ayudan a mantener el calor y disminuir el tiempo de grabación por lo que ahorra combustible, sólo quitar lo suficiente para dejar un poco de aire, yo sólo limpiar mi cocina cuando la reja se bloquean con clavos viejos y los tornillos de la desechos de madera que quemar.

Muy bonito el trabajo de acero en la parrilla y la construcción del conjunto, me fui por el áspero y duro camino de re-bar cuando hago mi rejilla ai nose sabe cuánto tiempo iba a durar antes de que se quemó, IIIT aún así resistir hasta 5 años la línea.

Me instalado un tubo más grande en 2 secciones por lo que podría ser desmantelada si alguna vez se bloquea de nuevo, voy a publicar algunos más pronto que estoy en el proceso de limpiar y cambiar el diseño de mi nave, voy a publicar una visibles de la varias cosas que han cambiado.

Guarde sus aserrín y madera y todos los periódicos a sus viejos y hacer sus ladrillos de combustible propias. Echa un vistazo a mi ible de briquetas de combustible Bio.

Forré mi estufa de leña con 3/4 "de cemento refractario, que realmente ayudan a mantener el calor durante unas pocas horas después del incendio se ha extinguido. Su opción si usted encuentra el tanque pierde calor rápidamente cuando el fuego se haya extinguido.

La más cálida sensación que se obtiene de ella es cuando la gente se entera de que lo construyó a ti mismo. todos los que han visto a mi estufa de leña cree que fue comprado en la tienda.
rimar2000 (author)  Dr Qui2 years ago
Your desing is more elaborated than mine, DrQui, and cuter .

But I am quite rebel about some popular concepts: I don't agree about the inner refractary covering. I think the heat must exit quickly from the stove, before it goes to the chimney. Anyway, it will be absorbed by the environment: walls, air, furniture, etc. This is preferable than lost it for the exhaust.
The side wall of my tank where only 3mm and it was heavily pitted because it had been a shop sign at the hardware store i worked in after it reached the end of its useful life as a gas tank, the gas company drill the tanks, remove the valve, repair the tank and add a sign where the valve goes, they give these out to the stores who sell the gas for them. once the sign get rusty the store then throw them out. that is why i had to use the fire cement. I added a 5" steel pipe flue that acts like a radiator and hold all the heat in my shed, and now i have insulated the roof of my shed I have to keep the door open when the fire is lit as it becomes just way to warm. I plan to do a ible about my shed soon once i finish clearing it out, and all the changes done, a few more weeks hopefully.

La pared lateral de mi tanque, donde sólo 3 mm y se enfrentó en gran medida debido a que había sido una señal de compra en la tienda de hardware he trabajado en el después de haber llegado al final de su vida útil como un tanque de gas, la compañía de gas perforar los tanques, retire la válvula, la reparación del tanque y agregar un signo de que la válvula se va, que se dé esta información a las tiendas que venden el gas por ellos. una vez que la señal se oxida la tienda luego deshacerse de ellos. es por eso que tuve que usar el cemento refractario. He añadido un 5 "del conducto de humos de acero que actúa como un radiador y mantener todo el calor en mi cobertizo, y ahora que me he aislado el techo de mi galpón que tengo que mantener la puerta abierta cuando se enciende el fuego, ya que se convierte simplemente en forma de caliente. me he propuesto hacer una ible de mi galpón pronto una vez que termine de despejar, y todos los cambios que se realicen, unas semanas más esperanzado.
rimar2000 (author)  Dr Qui2 years ago
Muy buena idea lo del radiador, yo tengo pensado eso como alternativa si el rendimiento de la salamandra no es suficiente.

Very good idea what the radiator, I have thought of that as an alternative if the performance of the salamander is not enough.
yellowcatt2 years ago
Very nice work.
Wood burning stoves are quite popular in Turkey. I have seen some where for a section flue pipe is split into four smaller pipes to make a more efficient radiator.

Another thing I have seen is flue pipes with a large 'ballooned' section containing a small oven.
I could not find any examples online so I will have to photograph some next time I see them.
rimar2000 (author)  yellowcatt2 years ago
Thanks for yout kind comment, yellowcatt.

I was thinking to weld some heatsinks, but before I must wait the winter and see how it works.
AR10NZ2 years ago
Hi Rimar :
Your new stove should outlive us both ! If you plan to make any more, ( saleable ?) if you cut 1 end off, to make a hinged door, flue at other end, you can fuel it with long wood. Also, if you can duct outside air to where air enters firebox, much more efficient. A layer of clean sand, NO salt, could be used to sheild the bottom of the firebox.
Cheers,
Dennis.
rimar2000 (author)  AR10NZ2 years ago
To outlive me, it needs no much time, Dennis, only other 67 years... ;)

I don't plan to do another, because for holing it I had to pay U$S 75, and that is a bit of money for me. Besides, I don't know where I could find another cylinder as that.

It is not neccesary to shield the bottom of the firebox, it is very thick steel, about 3/4 inches.
Hi Rimar :
US$75 is too much. Suggest you check out plasma cutting, or the cost of ultra thin cut off wheels, for a disk grinder.
Cheers,
Dennis
$75 - I am not sure of the local pricing and wages etc.. but for the amount of gas consumed and the time taken to cut it, and to make a profit on the job, that actually seems to be a fair price.

The ultra thin cut off wheels would have been OK on the straight cuts, around the side of the cylinder, for the door, BUT going on the cheap DOES have it's limitations and drawbacks...

Once the steel gets to it's softening point - it doesn't matter how tough it is, but this is a lot of steel in thickness, it's an interesting shape so the disks would have been OK for the door. But cutting out the ends - no hope.

Some days - it's better to just pay the people with the right equipment, and to get the job done right the first time - quickly and neatly etc.

Cutting with a disk grinder....

It's HARD to cut neat holes THROUGH the ends with a disk grinder.

Better to pay the right people with the right gear and be done with it.

rimar2000 (author)  Wroger-Wroger2 years ago
Yes, I agree totally. I can not buy an oxyacethilene torch, then I must pay the owner for he makes the work.
nnygamer2 years ago
It's a great design but please do not burn plastic bottles.
rimar2000 (author)  nnygamer2 years ago
Thanks for your comment, nnygamer. Please explain me more about plastic bottles. They are anyway condemned to be piled and burned, after travel some days thru the streets, giving a poor spectacle to us the people.
Plastic will give off some toxic chemicals when burned, these can hurt both you and the environment.
Collecting them and finding a new use for them would be better, maybe even finding a way to melt them down and cast them into other things.
rimar2000 (author)  nnygamer2 years ago
Yes, you're right, but I must take into account the rate cost / benefit, but before viability. I am a "warm green" and think the main responsibility is not mine but of the rulers, locally and globally.
Tazo2 years ago
Un trabajo increible. Felicidades.
rimar2000 (author)  Tazo2 years ago
Gracias, no es para tanto. Un abrazo.
spike35792 years ago
Nice craftsmanship! I thought the circles for the grate and the chimney collar came out especially well. Did you use a slip roller, a template or just bend them by hand?
rimar2000 (author)  spike35792 years ago
Thanks for your kind comment, spike3579.

I did them by hand, hammer and eyes. It is not difficult if you had made some others during your life (failing often). To do a jig or template I would have taken a longer time, I guess, because the rods are not soft iron but soft steel, and to get a diameter you must begin aiming to one slightly smaller. How much smaller, that is the question!

In addition, there was no need too much precision in any of the four circles that I made.
WWC2 years ago
You really do some nice work!
rimar2000 (author)  WWC2 years ago
Thanks for your kind comment.
Phil B2 years ago
I am glad to see you found a good use for your natural gas cylinder. You did a good job.
rimar2000 (author)  Phil B2 years ago
Me too, Phil. I hope the salamander will work well next winter.

Thanks for your comment.
johnyhacek2 years ago
It is good way to use dumped materials, but really be careful what are you burning.

It is because burning plastics in home conditions (not proper temperature, lack of oxygen, no separation of polutants) can be dangerous for yours and others health.
Depending on conditions burning of PET can create Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) and benzopyrene. Some of them can even cause cancer. But PET is the least dangerous.

Don't burn polystyrene or PVC because it will create Polychlorinated biphenyl which is really dangerous because it acumulates in ecosystems and causes cancer too.
rimar2000 (author)  johnyhacek2 years ago
OK, I know a bit of these danger. Thanks for the warning.

About PVC, the opinions are very conflicting (like occurs with sodium cyclamate): some persons say that it is very safe to burn it, other say that is dangerous.

Polystyrene produces a very unpleasant and persistent smell, so I will apart it from the waste before burn.

About Polyethylene I don't know, I must search the web. In the home waste there are occasionally some little piece of it. Some about Polycarbonate and others.

Anyway, there are 99.9% possibilities that all that waste end in a big bonfire at open field...
This is a clever and wonderful use of the CNG tank, a heater that will repay the hard work on those cold days!!! I suggest you check the pipe at the roof line, the heat of the pipe can ignite the roof wood if too close. There is a simple collar that will hold the chimney in place and allow for more space around the pipe as it leaves the roof to prevent such a fire hazard, check with heating shops for this collar. Overall this is a very nice stove, and you could burn a log from end to end in an upright position and get every bit of fuel used up with ease. Nice design and solid construction, a delight to see and you made it with so few parts. Thanks for sharing the design, it makes one ponder the possibilities for other such heaters.
rimar2000 (author)  trike road poet2 years ago
Thanks for your kind comment, trike road poet, specially for the advice. I hesitated about it, and finally I decided to leave a space of a few millimeters between the wood floor and the metal pipe. I hope that in normal use the temperature does not become high enough to skip that gap, but still I will be alert.
knife1412 years ago
Very nice work, Osvaldo! Once a heavy steel tank like that heats up, I'll bet it radiates heat for quite a while. Nice instructable!
rimar2000 (author)  knife1412 years ago
Thanks for your comment, knife141!

Was very fun for me to made it, and to fire it was a grateful experience. I hope it will work well. Here the cold is not hard, about 0º C (32º F) with some rare exceptions.
AR10NZ2 years ago
Hi Rimar :
Nice Instructable ! Good to see waste turned into something useful. CNG was used to power vehicles here, in New Zealand, some years ago, As the compressors wore out at the filling stations, it became too expensive to re-build them, so the industry died, and a lot of cheap tanks were available.
I once had 3 cut in 1/2, to make 6 pistol safes. I got a quote to have them band sawed, at a metal working shop. Ruined 2 new blades, but the quote was honored. Yes, very tough & hard.
Cheers,
Dennis
rimar2000 (author)  AR10NZ2 years ago
Thanks for your comment.

WOW, there are a mine of useful things to do with them. Think some alternatives!
Excelente construcción, siempre me gusta ver lo que logras con las mercancías.
Excellent build, I always enjoy seeing what you accomplish with found goods.
rimar2000 (author)  MissouriVillian2 years ago
Gracias, MissouriVillian, celebro que te guste, y espero que cuando venga el frío me encuentre bien provisto. (thank you, MissouriVillian, glad that you like it, and I hope when come the cold I be well stocked.)
marianok2 years ago
Osvaldo: Magnifico como siempre !!! muy buena idea !!
Great as always !, really cool idea !
rimar2000 (author)  marianok2 years ago
Gracias, Mariano, celebro que te guste, y espero que cuando venga el frío me
encuentre bien provisto. (thank you, Mariano, glad that you like it, and I hope when come the cold I be well stocked.)