Distill Hydrogen Peroxide

If you have read some of my other Instructables you know that a lot of them require oxygen either from the surrounding air or from an oxidizer. Potassium Nitrate is the most common and easily obtainable but, for those of you who, for whatever reason can't obtain it can make your own from hydrogen peroxide.

Step 1: Gethering Materials

For materials you will need four things:

1. Hydrogen Peroxide (The Kind Diluted In Water)
2. A small glass or plastic cup.
3. Soluble salt (I used Morton's)
4. A small amount of your time.

Comments

[elementcollector1]

This topic is an insult to chemists everywhere. Give me physical evidence that hydrogen peroxide *can* be salted out, and I'll give you a full apology. Until then, my mixture of saltwater and hydrogen peroxide remains a fully miscible mixture of saltwater and hydrogen peroxide.

Meanwhile, back to freeze distilling, like a regular person.

[rocketguitarguy]

liquid Hydrogen Peroxide makes a wonderful rocket fuel. no need for an oxidizer tank for the Hydrogen Peroxide contains both the oxidizer and the fuel (hydrogen as the fuel, oxygen as the oxidizer)

[waynesl]

When H2O2 is used as a MONOPROPELLANT, there is no fuel nor oxidizer. The compound is broken down by catalytic action of a silver screen, evolving O2 and H2O and generating heat. The Bell rocket belt uses this method for relatively safe rocket thrust close to the body of the operator. The exhaust temperature and composition are safer than most other reactions would produce. The downside is a lack of specific impulse, because the reaction is relatively tame.

[nitrous]

I'd like to know if this fellow is still alive.
jpoopdog is confusing "I got away with it" with "it must be safe, because I got away with it".

Just for completeness, lead poisoning is generally an accumulate heavy metal poison. As such, it rarely kills immediately, unless of course the lead is provided as a soluble salt. The symptoms of lead poisoning are often found in cognitive dysfunction (children who ate lead based paint don't do so well in school).

I'm all for supporting inquisitive thought but draw the line when it puts the individual at serious risk of harm (including death). What fascinates me is that in today's climate of terror threats, much of what jpoopdog has admitted to would be considered a felony.

BTW, I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who has been both a chemist (doctoral program in physical chemistry many, many years ago) and a medical doctor. Many of the things I "got away with" as a high school student were never safe. I just "got away with it". No one was seriously hurt (although a friend has a keloid scar on his knee from a conc nitric acid bottle that he grabbed by the glass stopper and poured on himself. Bad luck - but it was MY bottle of conc acid.

Do you self a favor before it is too late. Stay away from energetic compounds (explosives and propellants) until you have formally studied them. Chemistry is a great field to study - I know - I did it for many years but you don't want to hurt yourself or others.

Much of what you have said in these posts will hurt someone. Waynesl gave you some good advice. If you're still alive (and not in jail), head it.

Good luck,
nitrous

[PyromaniacDaniel]

wrong. The reaction of decomposing H2O2 is 2 H2O2 > 2 H2O + O2 + heat. This is not a Redox Reaction. However the O2 can then be used as a oxidizer. For instance a common liquid fuel rocket engine is to pass high concentrated H2O2 over a silver screen (catalyst to decompose the H2O2) into the combustion chamber and add kerosene to it. The heat of the decomposition is enough to cause the kerosene to burn with the O2 created. However the decomposition of the H2O2 would produce a thrust on its own given that it is going from a liquid to a gas and being heat to produce a pressure.

[m0nk3yb01]

Hydrogen Peroxide works as a stand alone fuel. Old torpedoes used h2o2 solely as a fuel (with a copper pellet as a catalyst to separate it into it's component gasses), complications of which caused the sinking of several subs. They're even still in use on modern satellites to control their orientation, because it's easy to precisely control the thrust.

[PyromaniacDaniel]

yes that is true. I already said it would work by itself. see last sentence from above. I was merely pointing out that it is not a Redox Reaction as rocketguitarguy had stated but was instead a decomposition.

[I_am_Canadian]

So, how do you make a rocket then?

[waynesl]

http://www.nar.org/

[milamber]

so can i use this to make black powder?

[jpoopdog]

use very pure h202 instead if kno3. use too much and it will oxidize on contact with the charcoal and sulfure, not enough and you end up with a wet black mess. it can be ignited by catalycticaly decomposing the "wet powder" , in an exothermic, but fast reaction, its only realu use though would be for a very quick production rocket fuel, nothing else, its why people dotn use it, its too hazardous, plus not many people would do it anyway as pure h2o2 is hard to come by

[LiquidLightning]

First of all, recipe for disaster. Second, where you gonna get very pure h2o2? Third, it won't even work.

[jpoopdog]

trolling dude, trolling. i was like 14 at the time

[LiquidLightning]

Lol, take care with your trolling. Some idiot will take it seriously, and try it.

[jpoopdog]

anyone listening to this should know it would never work unless the carbon and sulfur used was atomized and at leat 99.995% (LR grade) pure. otherwise it would oxidize on contact. anyways it wouldnt work. rockets i have checked use parrafin and some agent to help decompose water as the H²O² decomposes .

[anoderwanabe]

Be severely careful. The reason why H2O2 is normally in a 3% volume is because it is highly reactive. in chemistry labs we only use a max of 10%. everything above 30% is highly touch reactive and very dangerous

[LiquidLightning]

In general, chemistry labs use 30%.

[jlund]

None of this answer the question of which is water and h2o2 and I wana know too so Plc answer

[recon506]

a different method is to simply boil out the water in the Hydrogen peroxide solution. Same result - just faster and less wasteful on the salt. I prefer to use my salt on french fries and the like... Otherwise great -ible and keep up the good work. And invest in a hot plate, THEY'RE WONDERFUL!

[Kinnishian]

Does that even work? If the freezing point of water and hydrogen peroxide are close to the same, I'm guessing the vapour pressures are similar, so you're just getting equal proportions of water and hydrogen peroxide boiling off...No increase of %

[antibatman]

Actually, there is no possible way boiling it would yield ANY hydrogen peroxide at all. Hydrogen peroxide is enormously unstable, and simply exposing it to sunlight for short periods of time introduces enough energy to the system to begin decomposition to water and oxygen. This is why it is packaged in dark, opaque bottles. Boiling accomplishes nothing. High-concentration H2O2 can only be produced industrially or through a highly complex and controlled synthesis in a professional lab.

[DeusXMachina]

Actually, I used to think that, too, but H2O2 is apparently stable enough to heat that you can concentrate it with heat. I've been meaning to look into it.

Vacuum distillation would definitely work.

[waynesl]

absolutely wrong. H2O2 is VERY sensitive to heat, decomposing into H2O & O2 even at high room temperatures.

[Kinnishian]

In labs they keep H2O2 in fridges because it's indeed very easy for it to decompose from heat, UV, or any energy increase. Basically there's an electron shared between the 02 molecules and they both really want it and will take it with a little bit of help.

[waynesl]

Right on, Kinnishian- A clear and relatively simple explanation of the instability of the polar covalent bonding that makes H2O2 so unstable.
The extreme variance in posts to this particular 'ible dramatically illustrate the disparity in thought process between those of us who have been exposed to rigor and guidance in our learning, and those who have had to figure it out with little if any help. I have to admire people like spence012, DeusXMachina and jpoopdog for their tenacity, enthusiasm and creative thinking, but without more guidance they will die or be severely injured long before producing any useful results. They will also, by this hit-miss process, re-invent the wheel many, many times. I'm beginning to wonder if some vetting process like WikiPedia uses might make this site more effective.

[DeusXMachina]

in before- I am not talking about, and never was referring to, when I made my original comment in 2010, making high test peroxide by heating and evaporating off water. That would be impossible or ludicrously impractical. I was referring to increasing the concentration of store-bought 3% hydrogen peroxide solution to 6% or maybe as high as 12% or 15%, if one lacks vacuum distillation equipment or the means to control temperature well for fractional freezing.

It would be inefficient, but it should theoretically be possible, as pointed out below, in counterpoint to antibatman's statement: "Actually, there is no possible way boiling it would yield ANY hydrogen peroxide at all."

[DeusXMachina]

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50456a010

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50473a026

Image didn't upload properly first time.

[DeusXMachina]

In fact, with a little cursory digging, I found a source for the thermal stability of 90% H2O2.

From Shanley & Greenspan, Dec 1947, Industrial and Engineering Chemistry: (see image)
Approximate rate of decomposition of 90% H2O2 at 100 degC: 2% in 24 hours

Now, I'm still looking for either direct experimental data or extrapolation as to the stability of less concentrated solutions of H2O2 at elevated temperatures, but suffice it to say that it is not "absolutely wrong" to suppose that H2O2 decomposes slowly enough at ~100C to be able to be concentrated without vacuum.

[DeusXMachina]

I admire your condescension, but I actually have a BS in chemistry. If I remember correctly, my offhand comment that I made a year ago was based on a quick napkin-calculation on the decomposition rate of acid-stabilized 3% H2O2 at 120 degC based on the kinetics of H2O2 at room temperature. Obviously it decomposes at room temperature, but over a relatively long time frame. Even though there is a thousandfold increase in the reaction rate, the breakdown rate was low enough (I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think the halflife was on the order of an hour) that it should be theoretically possible to increase the concentration by a few percentage points merely by controlled boiling at atmospheric pressure in acid-washed borosilicate glass. You're clearly not going to get HTP or even 30% by this method, but for some purposes, increasing OTC 3% to 6% or 9% is sufficient (so long as the purity is high enough that there aren't enough metal ions to catalyze the decomp, the rate is close enough to breakeven as it is). Since the concentration remains relatively low, there is also much less risk of dangerous rapid decomposition as would be the case with high test, so the worst outcome is you end up with warm water. I would have investigated further, but I was busy with other things, and found a vacuum distillation method that was far more efficient, rendering the heating method moot, and just forgot about the matter. I may have to actually test this now just for the sake of thoroughness. I'd be more than happy to admit that it is not possible, because it's going to be a pain as it is merely due to existing impurities, but at least there will be a solid answer on the matter, rather than speculation.

Naturally, it's also not my issue if someone reads my comment or any other information on the internet, tries it, and suffers ill consequence from it, whether it be boiling H2O2, building a spudgun or frying a turkey. There is much, much more dangerous information on the internet.

But yes, I do agree that virtually everyone else has no idea what they are talking about.

[waynesl]

Points well taken, supporting data well cited, and I apologize for the condescension.
The strength of my responses here was motivated by concern for individuals who, like myself, are fascinated with science yet do not always think a problem through or research it appropriately before designing an experiment. You, DeusXmachina, are not about to mix up some slurry of volatile reactants without proper precautions and have a potentially fatal incident, but take a look at the post of Jan 2, 2011. 5:35 PM. It reminded me of an incident from my childhood:
When I was 11, a schoolmate of mine couple of years older than me asked me to help him with a science fair project. I referred him to the UNESCO science projects book in the school library. He perused it and asked me to help him make "safety" matches. Since I frequently went to the "chemist shop" (as they called a pharmacy in England) I agreed to purchase the materials for him. He paid me for them and took them home.
Instead of following the very clear instructions in the book and heeding the stringent warnings, he proceeded to do exactly what he had been warned against. Mixing the red phosphorus with the KClO4 in a mortar, he began to triturate it, and spent the remainder of the day in the emergency room, getting his eyes rinsed and bandaged. My response at the time was, "Serves him right for being a dummy," but I still remember the hot water I was in afterward.
Please forgive my seeming to lump you in with some of the less knowledgeable and perhaps overly-imaginative contributors to this forum. It was unintentional.

[DeusXMachina]

It's no problem. I totally understand and feel the aggravation with people that are reckless with chemistry. I was a bit bold with chemistry for a while as a teenager, but I got a lot safer with maturity and experience, and even back then didn't attempt anything ridiculously stupid....like making Armstrong's mixture by hand.

Good gods, he's lucky he didn't get killed or maimed. I remember really early on reading about someone mixing phosphorus with chlorate or perchlorate with a metal spoon, in a metal can. That was good encouragement for me to avoid a lot of the nastier things out there.

[MikeyNCat]

Exactly!

[___]

no, cold distillation is actually a way to concentrate als H2O2 boils at 150 C

[Noname23]

If you're going to do this be very very careful not to boil off the peroxide because peroxide gas is highly explosive.

[snipegoat]

if you put a bag over it while boiling it do you think you could get a condensed peroxide gas?

[jpoopdog]

no, everyone listen up, hydrogen peroxide decomposes in the presence of energy, aka heat or sunlight, if you heat it up it will decompose into oxygen and water, you cannot make peroxide gas by boiling it away , because boing it with destroy it.

also that is true it does boil at 150c, but it would decompose under normal conditions before ever reaching that tempurature so you would get peroxide gas, just not alot, , and not nearly enough to condense into a usable liquid

[Kinnishian]

No. There is no such thing as condensed gas. Gas turning to liquid is condensation. A gas condensing, means it turns to liquid. So boiling condensed gas is even more of a confusing oxymoron. What's a more useful answer is that when you boil it you boil both water and hydrogenperoxide. And since they suggested boiling as a method, I assume that hyrogenperoxide isn't very volatile and the vapors boiling gives off are mostly those of water.

[jpoopdog]

steam/vapour but not a distinguishable liquid.

[waynesl]

The only way to boil H2O2 without it decomposing is to use vacuum. Your assumption is wrong. Take a couple of semesters of college chemistry or read some books, not the drivel here.

[bylerfamily]

So,Is this a solid oxidizer as in could you mix it with sugar and shoot a rocket off?Really want to know because i am having trouble finding potassium nitrate.