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Step 10FAQ
How big/small of an object can I do?
- My browsing around on the web found people doing anything from small parts in a 1/2 gallon tub to a trailer body in a swimming pool using a large welder for the power.
Does the solution "wear out"?
- No - it just gets nasty
How much power should I use?
- As little as possible to still get the job done. I think you will get better results with low power and two days of processing than high power and getting it done in an hour. The larger the object (surface area) the more power required to do it in a given amount of time. My charger is 1.5 amp 6 volt and works great for hand tools. the small stuff takes a few hours. The larger complex plane took a day and a half before i was happy with the amount of removal.
Is this dangerous?
- Only if you don’t have any common sense and don’t use a GFCI protected power source.
- Yes if you do it inside - the bubbles forming are evidently hydrogen which is flammable. Outside it does not cause any problems.
- The low voltage is pretty safe - especially if your charger has an automatic cut off "trouble" switch.
Are there any drawbacks to this system?
- Some people say that depending on the power and time involved, the steel can become brittle due to a temporary change in structure. This is cured by "baking" the tool for a few hours at 350 in the oven or letting it sit around for a few months before any hard use. see the links below for more info. I have not found this to be a problem.
These guys deserve the credit for teaching me how to do this and provide way more info on this system:
http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoepp/electrolyticrust.html
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/rust.htm#top
http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp
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I set up the tank with the work piece inserted and fill with water from the garden hose. The carbonate does not dissolve easily in cold water. I get a half gallon of hot water and dissolve a handful in that. Then add slowly to the main tank until the charger current comes up to what I want. I have an old 6 amp 6/12 volt charger. I don't know the chemistry either, but believe the lower voltage works better, and it is really amps per square inch of tool surface that controls the process.
I pull the tools out about every half hour and give them a light scrub with a brass bristle brush. The brass won't scratch cast iron. You can find good brass brushes at stores selling barbeque grills. Watch that they are not just brass plated steel though. If you scrub the piece while it is wet with carbonate, some of the brass will plate over onto the iron, giving it a slight yellow cast. I think it looks antiquey. If you don't like that idea, rinse the piece well before brushing.
1. stainless steel does not conduct amps well don't use it.
2. Copper for your anode is better used and a copper pipe flatting ¾ of it with a hammer
3. the further your anode is away from your work peace is bad it takes more amps and time to work on cleaning.
4. Power 1 to 12 volts they don't matter at all amps is what matters 10 amps works the best no closer than 4 inches from what you are cleaning the farther your anode is from what you are cleaning the more amps it takes to do the job.
5. Cleaning soap phosphates use TSP you will find it in a store that sales paint it is a mild soap use
for cleaning walls in the house to paint. It will not harm you. Plus add two cups of white vinegar to 4 gallons of water in your 5 gallon buck of water mix with soap it will help to conduct the amps better. O and what I mean that TSP won't harm you I mean your hands please people don't drink it is a small joke:)
and one more thing please people stop telling people that stainless steel is toxic if they use it because its not it just wont carrier the amps. The only way to make it toxic is to weld with it over a long time or by passing volts throw it at high amps in a acid bath and I mean amps 150 amps and up.
Thank you for your time hope this helps
http://www.rickswoodshopcreations.com/Miscellaneous/Rust_Removal.htm
"It is important that any copper connected to the anode does not touch the solution. If it does, copper will oxidize to cupric ion, Cu++. The connector will be destroyed. Most of the copper ions formed should precipitate as copper carbonate or copper hydroxide, but if any of this dissolved copper reaches the cathode it will be reduced to copper metal on the iron object. Its presence will promote rapid re-rusting."
Re the stainless steel advice - there is simply too much other advice out there warning of the potential hazards of this, so I am going to maintain my statement that stainless should not be used. for example, here is one of the original electrolytic rust removal sites that was inspiration for this instructable:
http://antique-engines.com/stainless-steel-electrodes.htm
So anyway, I'm going to stick to err on the side of caution on this one and continue to caution against stainless, but am interested if there is something definitive on this. Lastly, I don't see a real benefit to stainless, its more expensive, and we are talking about a disposable anode by definition, no matter what kind of conductive material it is...
1. I only used washing soda in a 1tbsp /gal ratio. My largest tank was 7ft W X 3ft L X 3ft D. This was for the lathe bed and the Mill body.
2. My anodes are always steel plate. Plain old 1/8" mild steel. Pieces about 10inx 12 in. In the large tank I had 8 of them. In a 35gal plastic garbage can where I did most everything I used 2. I drilled a hole and bolted bailing wire (now called tie wire) to them and hung them in the bath.
3. I clean my pieces using a plastic bristle brush and some orange gojo degreasing hand cleaning stuff. Just get the grease off your part so it will conduct. This process has removed everything from unseen grease and dirt & paint, but especially rust!
4. Leave overnight.
5. remove the anodes and simply wire brush the crud off and set them aside to be used again. The anodes will corrode completely away eventually. I think it kinda looks cool the pitting and corrosion that occurs on the anode. the way I see it, the more surface area of the anode the more electrons can flow onto it and the more rust it removes.
Sorry I don't have pics of the tank ( I may somewhere) but I do have before and after pics of the machines, however in the after they are completely repainted. I've done parts hanging half in the bath then rotated over after the first part is done. Screws bolts and nuts are easy when you simply cut a long piece of wire then tie them all together with a couple wraps around them and space them about 1" apart. the results are nothing short of amazing. There is no damage to the original part.
Warning!! Get the polarity right! If not you will corrode whatever you are cleaning into something unusable really quickly.
Second, if anybody is worried about using mains electricity this will work just as well with a car battery; as long as it has some decent amount of charge in it of course :-)
Very good ible, well done.
Thank you and take care.
Kevan
Once this weather warms up I have some Land Rover wheel drums (brakes) to de-rust. 11 inch ones...
Oh, another thought. How about a piece of sheet steel inserted into the bucket so it encircles anything you want to derust? You'd get full line of sight for the object that way with no voids. Just a thought :-) Or even using a steel (not galvanised though) bucket or large industrial paint tin.
Take care.
Kevan
Use the 5v for small parts and 12v for larger items.
A power strip is not a gfi unless it specifically says so.
A power strip (or bar) usually has a breaker wich shuts off if more then 10 or 15a flows but a gfi (ground fault interrupter) detects leakage current, ie. power that is not returning on the same line that it came in. So if you use a gfi and connect one lead to a metal pole in the ground or any other line (like you) that bypass the gfi it will shut off.
I wouldn't recommend a ups system, they have a lot of internal circuitry for testing the battery, and would probably not work.