Step 7: Additional Info

To read more on the subject of humane euthanasia of feeder animals, you can read what the American Veterinary Medical Association has published:
AVMA & humane euthanasia

or from the University of Iowa:
University of Iowa Animal Research

Guidelines for the Euthanasia of Rodent Feti and Neonates
Yale University's IACUC co2 euthanasia guidelines
University of California's euthanasia guidelines

Please note that these guidelines apply mostly to laboratory animals, as some mention the use of barbituates and other gases. But, the CO2 method is widely practiced and acceptable as a rather humane way to euthanize small animals.
<p>Hi, my son just got a 5 year old female ball python 2 days ago as a rescue. She has always eaten live food. Is it too late to try frozen? Thank you in advance for any advice you may have. Hope you have a great day! :)</p>
<p>It's never too late for swapping to f/t. It will be much easier to swap to freshly killed first until you can move to fully frozen ones.</p>
<p>my question is it dangerous to touch the hose when co2 is flowing through it?</p>
The CO2 method is far from perfect. Hold your breath for as long as you can, or breath in and out of a plastic bag for a while. Feel that pain in your upper chest and your head? That's not oxegen deprivation, it's CO2 intoxication. If you can find a canister of N2 (nitrogen), this will give the same result (i.e. a dead animal) but more humanely. If you're gonna ignore me and stick with the CO2, you're as well off drowning it, save you buying any gas at all. Having said that, I do agree that your way is more humane than most poisons, which can then be transferred to the snake too.
&nbsp;Liquid nitrogen is easier and cheaper if you can find it, most colleges and universities will sell it for about $2 a liter and you can carry it in a thermos. You could just put it in a sealed container and run a tube from the container to the gas chamber. Since the suffocation response is entirely controlled by CO2 levels, replacing all the CO2 and O2 in the chamber with N2 will cause the animal to pass out and die just from lack of O2, completely painlessly.
i know this post is years old but im still hoping for a reply, if i use the CO2 method or N2 to kill feeders rats for my ball python, it doesnt hurt my ball python to eat the poisoned rat does it...?
Nope, not any different than if you had drowned it.
&nbsp;Yep, that's what I was getting at. Just didn't realise it was so easy to get, thanks! :)
I know this post is years old, but i really need help, so if i use this method, and feed the poisoned rat to my snake, it wont hurt my snake, right?
Nope it won't hurt your snake. Also, the rat isn't &quot;poisoned&quot; - it's just been suffocated with carbon dioxide (which we all exhale naturally).<br><br>This is a good way to feed your snake without it getting hurt. Good luck.
Interesting...How does this compare in price and ease to buying commercial prekilled food? <br>
Buying commercial prekilled food is easy and convenient if you have 1 or 2 snakes. Especially if the snakes aren't very big.<br><br>I had several snakes back when I did this, and the boas were rather large. I started breeding mice and rats and used them to feed my snakes and sold them to other friends of mine to make some money on the side. Also, my boas liked food a little larger than rats, so I would buy rabbits, guinea pigs and other food for really cheap at an animal auction. They were live, so this is the way I would euthanize them.<br><br>I'm married now, so I had to give up my snake hobby.
Cute snake! Personally im a lizard guy but i still love snakes(and all reptiles).
one time found a 5 lined skink back behind my house. i kept him for about 3 weeks, but he refused to eat so i let him go
My friend has a ball python and the things are freaking awesome. The night i slept over they feed the snake and it was cool but i kind of felt bad for it. Are there any other less expensive ways to do this<br>
ball pythons tend to go long periods without eating, especially when you first get them
Yes. You can buy the mice already frozen. They're typically cheaper than live mice and they can be stored in the freezer. It's convenient also because you can buy 10 or a dozen (or more) at once instead of running back to the pet store every week.<br><br>To thaw the mouse properly, don't leave it on the counter or something to defrost. Just put the frozen mouse in a ziplock baggie and place it in a sink full of warm water. Once the mouse is completely thawed and thoroughly warmed, you should be able to feed the snake.<br><br>Ball Pythons are well-known as finicky eaters, so don't be discouraged if it is difficult to get it started on frozen/thawed mice. I was successful with mine.<br><br>If you need any other tips, let me know.
i think i heard them say that they will only eat live mice<br><br>i dont know though so i will ask him today<br>
Has he tried F/T mice?<br><br>If your friend decides he wants to try to switch, I will be happy to offer advice.
I talked to him yesterday, he says they only eat live mice. What are f/t mice<br>
F/T = Frozen/Thawed
thats what i thought. Im going to talk to hi today<br>
that is a beautiful red tail boa
Alternatives:<br><br>* Simply use canned air for cleaning keyboards. Inject the gas into a small hole in the lid of the container. It's heavier then air so it will displace the air and fill the container. Then no valves or tubing is required.<br><br>* Or make CO2 using vinegar and baking soda in a tall pitcher then pour the CO2 into the other container. To test that it works, put a tea light candle in the larger container. The candle will go out.
i know this is a dead post, but i would not recommend using canned air, or &quot;dust off&quot; they contain a propellant, the refrigerant 1,1-Difluoroethane. This crap stays in the blood stream and can lead to some complications in the snake. besides that, the prey would be high and panic before death. don't forget, whats good for the snake is good for the prey.
In animal studies 1,1-difluoroethane causes reduced aggression/excitement and diffuses away in minutes. <br>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20822675<br><br>It doesn't stay in the blood forever. So everything you just said above is at best mostly wrong. It's certainly true that carbon dioxide is more natural, which is why I recommended it too. But realistically difluoroethane should be equally safe. Many gases are used in the treatment of meat such as carbon monoxide, but the gut is good at dealing with toxic gases like carbon monoxide and other mixes of methane and even sulfur dioxide. And since difluoroethane diffuses out of living organisms very quickly, if it was absorbed by the gut it would only be absorbed very slowly. So I don't think it's likely that traces of diflouroethane in a treated food animal is going to harm the snake. It should be perfectly safe. <br>
I have a Spider phase Ball Python ,I feed him in a plastic shoe box never in his enclosure ,i put a live mouse in box lower him in he attacks mouse while still in my hand ,I feed him every Saturday hasn't skipped a meal yet ...
Huh...reading this, I can only think that my old python died because of me.
At the risk of being laughed at for jumping off the snake subject... I was wondering if this setup could be scaled up slightly for the humane processing of meat rabbits?<br /> <br /> I have been taking mine to a butcher that specializes in deer and small game but it gets rather expensive after a while. I was thinking that this might work.<br /> <br /> Also, would the CO2 / N2 leave any traces in the meat that would make them bad for eating?<br />
Any chance you could elaborate more on everything you need for the CO2 cannister? Also, thanks for telling us about the outlet tube and how to properly use this. I actually recently bought out a small pet store and the previous owner seemed to have problems with her CO2 chamber due to panicing and slow deaths. Havn't needed to use it yet (mouse colony is still too small), but this is all good info.
I'll quote myself from a post a little bit lower down: OK, I'll try to describe them since I don't know what they are called. I bought two new tanks at Wal-Mart. I took them to a paintball store and told the clerk what I was planning to use it for and what I would need to have. He gave me a valve that fits over the threads of the tank. The valve screws downward and depresses the button on the tank. There is a threaded hole in the side of the valve that the gas escapes through. Into that threaded outlet, he put in some sort of coupling that grips the black rubber straw looking-thing in the picture. That's what I bought. The aquarium tubing that I used fits over the black straw. Maybe a paintball hobbyist can chime in with the exact names of the parts, but really, if you do what I did any knowledgeable clerk will be able to assist you.
So is it regulated
The valve I describe allows you to manually control the amount of CO2 going into the chamber.&nbsp; There is no gauge or anything, but I'd guess one could be integrated into the setup. Is that what you wanted to know?<br />
The part that screws onto the valve of the tank is called a &quot;on/off ASA&quot; (Air Source Adapter). <br /> <br /> The output from the ASA is threaded at 1/8&quot; NPT.<br /> The black tube coming from the asa is called macro line.<br /> <br /> So you would need<br /> co2 tank<br /> on/off asa<br /> Macro line<br /> Macro line fitting (1/8th)&quot;<br /> <br /> <br />
f*ck<br /> my snake died a cause of the co2<br /> D:<br /> haha just kidding<br /> its easy to do<br /> <br />
Never use a microwave to thaw or heat frozen mice.Not only can it cause them to explode, but it can also begin a cooking process which is NOT good for your snake. Thaw them under warm(not hot)water. And if your snake is finicky, you may want to try thoroughly washing the frozen critter,as it's thawing. Not only does this wash off any germs that may be on the skin, but it removes the smell that may be there from the freezer, or from old urine/feces on the fuzzy critters when they were originally frozen.This tip originally came from the breeder that I bought my last two snakes from- and it has never failed.
Sometimes when my snake doesn't want to eat, we sprinkle some chicken broth on the mouse.This keeps him rather occupied in the tank as he grooms himself and doesn't see my ball python coming at all.Don't drown the little guy, just sprinkle.I've heard this works well for getting snakes to eat thawed mice too. Hell, he even started smelling good to ME, jk :)
Punch holes in them with a fork and they won't explode when you microwave them.
lol, your talking about them as if they were sausages or something. ill have to try that! (jokes) does it work, if so, i s'pose its okay. i dont know of any detrimental effects microwaving food can have to the herp.
Or just use hot water since its much smarter to do...
Smarter but not as fast. We were always pressed for time at the wildlife rehab place I volunteered at so we would do water if we had time, but sometimes just zapped them in microwave.
I'm confused as to what you mean "if we had the time", you can thaw several animals at the same time, and secondly I don't know of anything that eats frozen food that has to eat in a 15 minutes time frame. Punching holes in them runs the risk of them leaving a large mess behind after being devoured, which runs some sanitation risks. I suppose if you've been fortunate enough that you hadn't had problems that's your own prerogative. I just find it easy to multitask while letting some mice thaw out under hot water, and then have less of a chance of finding gore in the feeding tank.
Typically we had a great many animals to weigh, medicate, clean their cage and feed. Since it was an all volunteer staff and little to no organization/coordination getting the shift before to thaw the mice and rats for the hawks the next day was unlikely. The sanitation risk was low b/c the cages were cleaned daily. I can definately understand why someone wouldn't want that in their pet's cage though.
Ok ok, touche :P didn't think about birds of prey, making me a jerk. Any way, as I said its your prerogative all the same, but what I meant (I am a little sleep deprived, one of those inspiration nights last night i guess) is that if it works for you that's fine, but keep in mind there are plenty of other people taking tips here, and just because they made an instructable on advanced robotic programming, doesn't mean they have common sense (hell, look at me). So in other-words I think I was kind of being a jerk and I apologize, but also you still gotta be careful with microwaving, especially depending on what you are feeding. A constrictor snake can make quite a mess (even if you don't pop holes in it) and it can be a pain to clean (i know someone who tried this). However I have never fed, nor seen something like a hawk fed, so you win that round. But for the majority of the people, they can do whatever they want (sometimes a sad fact) but for things that live on the ground, especially in substrate, I would vote against creating any more possibility of insides becoming outsides because cleaning takes a lot longer then thawing in hot water. Again, all just opinions.
Cool. Just looking at the same thing from different points of view and arriving at different conclusions. Typical human condition. :)
The urine and feces will actually entice the snake to eat the mice, thats the smell its looking for when it looks for food. That's why sometimes people who buy frozen will have the mice rubbed around in old hamster/mice bedding...
At first I thought that this instructable was about how to feed a snake CO2...
LOL me too.
You brought up an interesting point though... Can a snake eat tofu? could you compress it into a mouse-like shape, add some frilly stuff to simulate hair, and smear it with chicken bullion cubes? Anyway, I just wanted to throw a tip my friend told me about. He said that initially, his snake was accustomed to eating chicks and so wouldn't eat when he switched to mice. He dipped the thawed-frozen mice in chicken broth and got the snake to eat it. Not sure if it's valid of he was BSing me (he was known to do so often)...

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