wiki is the right source if it has the answer you are looking for, if you don't like or agree with there's,, there is alway "brittanica" or what ever agrees with you
From Wikipedia: "Studies in workers exposed to PCBs have shown changes in blood and urine that may indicate liver damage. In Japan in 1968, 280 kg of PCB-contaminated rice bran oil was used as chicken feed, resulting in a mass poisoning, known as Yushō disease, in over 14,000 people. Common symptoms included dermal and ocular lesions, irregular menstrual cycles and lowered immune responses.Other symptoms included fatigue, headaches, coughs, and unusual skin sores. Additionally, in children, there were reports of poor cognitive development."
Yes, a simple task like "pulling a transformer out of a PCB filled x-ray head" probably wont kill you. But what you are not understanding is that there is a probability that it will cause damage such that if x amount of people perform the same task y amount will develop a health concern, some of which might be life threatening.
And to say something like mineral oil is also a carcinogen is petty. It is a matter of degrees. You can burn you hand with a match but you can do a lot worse with an acetylene torch.
You are not using these materials responsibly and as you're the one disseminating this information it is incumbent upon you to address health concerns and to not offhandedly dismiss knowledgeable people like cablemonkey who are trying to help you.
I'm going to have to agree with grenadier on this one. The toxicity of polychlorinated biphenols is of little concern. The rice that caused Yushō disease was also contaminated with Polychlorinated dibenzofurans and Polychlorinated dibenzodioxins; both chemicals much more toxic than PCBs. Those PCDFs and the PCDDs were likely the cause of the health effects experienced by those people, with the PCBs having little to no responsibility.
Unfortunately the chance of Radio Shack stocking electronic components, are slim to bone. I heard slim left town last week.. Might be wise to buy a few items each pay check to build up a personal inventory while RS still stocks them. YMMV the store here still stocks a limited selection, I hear others don't at all.
Why even bother with Radioshack? Order online from places like Mouser or Digikey. The shipping cost is worth it because you'll be paying a normal price for components, instead of the Radioshack prices of something like a few dollars for five resistors.
I'm not sure what the "normal" price is, but 4 cents for a resistor isn't really out of line. In regards to mail order I haven't found anything that comes in much better with all the charges are considered delivered to my door. Been there done that, and always revisiting it to see if it has improved. In 35 years it really hasn't. All things considered the local RS generally was the one to beat. The only thing that has changed is the inventory. Even that means there are new items RS now stocks that I can buy there for less than I can via mail order.
I just don't think it makes sense to stock up on components at RS. 4 cents per isn't out of line, but RS doesn't sell things under .99 for a 5-pack. I do consider 4 cents per a perfectly fine price to pay for component you don't buy in bulk (<100 units, say?).
I think that most people, once they make a list of what they'd like to have on hand for projects, will find it cheaper to look online. It's fairly easy to show that is true if you're looking to stock up on about ten or so common resistor values, and very easy to show if you want to stock up on anything else as well, namely LEDs, transistors, 555 timer chips, hobby motors, switches....all the common project stuff.
Wow, I just realized you were the same person who wrote the 'ible on the plasma speaker I had put on my to do list of things to make. Im trying to get into high voltage electricity, but time, money and parents slow that endeavor. It took some convincing to build a railgun. Thank you for this lengthy enlightening guide. It gives me more ideas to add to the list of things to do.
Also, havent checked it out, but my mom works at a place where the buisness upstairs does neon signs. Potential goodies.
im sure if you crank it into kilowatt range you would experience problems,but compared to all the lame oscillators ive ever built (555 astable,transistor flip flop,L.C oscillators,positive feedback audio amplifier oscillators....) this one realy shines!!....i still need to get used to having my semiconductors totally cool and my 0.7mm wire smoking ,as other stuff ive built generally have bipolar transistors breaking out in flames ,for panzy wispy sparks.
thanks for the info about the separate mosfet supply,but i think ill stick with 120w it seems a lot "safer" :)
And about the diode: I wouldn't say useful, as it is a regular slow diode and it will also probably die if you try to pull an arc through it. Some regular high current diodes in series would be much tougher than that puny plastic thing.
You might be able to wire them in parallel to handle more current, much like you can wire them in series to handle more voltage.
I haven't tested it, but the resistance from the assembly should be (diode resistance) / (# of diodes) because you're multiplying the area of the PN junction by (# of diodes). Since the cross-sectional area of a conductor is inversely proportional to resistance, and resistance is inversely proportional to current, by wiring diodes in parallel you should be able to pull more amps without subjecting each individual diode to more current than it's used to.
I've noticed that for passive components, you can (sometimes) multiply the voltage they can handle by wiring them in series, while you can (usually) multiply the current they can handle by wiring them in parallel.
Very, very nice instructable. This is one of the best instructables, i have seen so far. 5++++ and my vote for it. (The PCB-Lab, POV is in the same range) I second, that not too many young people are interested in electronics. (Beside plugging in a game console...) But there still are, you can see them here. I made my Ham-license when i was 17.
I have a very funny story about my younger brother, a antistatic bag and a CW cascade. I was hanging around in my room, playing with this CW, that was scrounged from a powder coating machine. I had a grounding strap on the floor and a antistatic bag on it. (the metallized bags) I zapped on the bag and after a short while, a spark ran around the bags edges. I was quite amazed for a while, until i realized, that the spark vapourized the metallization on the edges. I switched off the CW and wanted to discard the bag. Holy moly, i got a zap from the bag. After i thought about it, i realized i made a condensator by insulating the edges.
So i reloaded it and at that point my brother entered my room with one of his friends. He was around 8 then... I asked him, if he wanted a bag of electricity. He said, you can't put electricity in a bag. (Now he also works in electronics) I teased him, ok, then take it. The rest is history... and we still have a very good relationship.
Heh, I've managed to get quite a jolt from a regular plastic sheet by charging it with a CW. There was no metallization at all, but it still held a charge somehow.
This is an amazing instructable. Having so much relevant and useful information in one place is so convenient. I've been meaning to make myself a a few HV power supplies for a while now and no I have no excuse not to. You've literally done all the work i would have needed to do for me already, thank you! you got my vote for sure, I hope you get your idea up and running soon, you will definitely have my business.
Excellent work, got my vote. And I totally agree with grunff, a Tesla coil is recommended. It took me a few tries to get it right but the result was well worth it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5N5_pGuvyY
This is exacly what I was looking for. I'm 1 year away from beeing an electrical engineer (well, specialized for Telecommunication), and this is what we should be dooing more.
I have found this info in various places on the net but you did a great job putting it in one place. I too would like to see more experimenting and I think you may have encouraged just that. Excellent job!
Wow. This is literally the best instructable that I've ever read. I only recently started venturing into high voltage projects, a simple welder from another instructable on here, but this is just perfect.
I've been indecisive about trying to do a Jacob's ladder or your plasma speaker for my next project and this gives me so many more tantalizing options.
Well done, sir. You definitely deserve the laser cutter.
I actually hunkered down and read this start to finish despite my initial 'TLDR' reaction. I like your dream and enjoyed your writing :) (especially the part about where to obtain PTs)
You've sold me! I see the problem you presented (in a strikingly eloquent manner) and I agree, almost no one does this kind of stuff anymore. Everything has correct spelling and grammar which is huge for me. I'm not sure about how far you'll get but I wish you the best of luck and if you manage to get this little business off the ground, I'll be sure to buy from it! You have my vote and I posted it on my Facebook.
You wrote: now most kids don't even know how a radio works let alone how to make one or any other circuit for that matter....
I agree. I am one of the Older set here, and have been finding it difficult to find anyone in my area interested in any "electronics projects" at all, and only a few PC enthusiasts.
I started my Latest ible with the intent of starting at the very basics (super simple crystal sets) to a bit more complex (and making a radio almost completely out of stuff found in the home; and still no connection to the MAINS. :-)
You did a VERY thorough job here, and as a long time subscriber, have to say I am VERY impressed. Thank you for taking the time to share this with all.
wow, this is great, so detailed. even the comments are impressive, in my quick skim over the comments i haven't seen any flaming or people saying "its to dangerous to be an instructable"
You have some laudable goals, Keep in mind it's hard to interest kids in new things if the cost prevents them affording what the other kids are doing. As you mention project that would interest them will be hard to come by High Voltage project may be one of them, they may also be ones that will prompt parent to apply the brakes. Who knows? You mentioned soldering irons. Before making any investment make sure you can compete with local established hardware, and box store. Who often stock Weller soldering irons Just basic soldering irons, but that's all a beginner needs anyway.
Actually the MOT's core is not live, In fact in a microwave oven the MOT's core is electrically connected to the chassis, and if it were hot well then touching a microwave oven would be lethal!
As for the "+", I use + and - to differentiate between secondary windings on a transformer. In a center tapped transformer one HV output will always be negative while the other is positive, and therefore the + and - imply that the outputs cannot be tied together (unless you use diodes on both to make a full wave rectified output).
In transformers with only one secondary winding I designate the output with a +, mainly because transformers are most often used with a diode to create +HVDC rather than -HVDC.
I love the idea stated in your intro, getting kids to make stuff is a great thing. If you don't win the laser, don't give up. Look around your area for hacker shops or Maker groups. My local group has gotten an Epilog, and for minimun cost anyone can use it after taking the training class. I know that Columbus Ohio is not the only city with a maker comunity, so hang in there, and know that there are others who believe like you.
Where'd it go?
yeah where did it go
???
To my website!
Where on your website?
Please provide a link.
Let see what fun I can gleen from this...
"The toxicity is actually of little concern."
Media hype aside, the established body of medical and scientific research on these compounds does not support your statement.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/pcb/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated_biphenyl#Health_effects
http://www.ph.ucla.edu/ehs/student%20hazards/PCB.pdf
It's your body; treat it how you will, but I urge you to please be careful about spreading misinformation such as the statement above.
Again, there are reasons that these oils have been banned since the 70's
wiki is not a reliable source bro.
wiki is the right source if it has the answer you are looking for, if you don't like or agree with there's,, there is alway "brittanica" or what ever agrees with you
From Wikipedia: "Studies in workers exposed to PCBs have shown changes in blood and urine that may indicate liver damage. In Japan in 1968, 280 kg of PCB-contaminated rice bran oil was used as chicken feed, resulting in a mass poisoning, known as Yushō disease, in over 14,000 people. Common symptoms included dermal and ocular lesions, irregular menstrual cycles and lowered immune responses.Other symptoms included fatigue, headaches, coughs, and unusual skin sores. Additionally, in children, there were reports of poor cognitive development."
Yes, a simple task like "pulling a transformer out of a PCB filled x-ray head" probably wont kill you. But what you are not understanding is that there is a probability that it will cause damage such that if x amount of people perform the same task y amount will develop a health concern, some of which might be life threatening.
And to say something like mineral oil is also a carcinogen is petty. It is a matter of degrees. You can burn you hand with a match but you can do a lot worse with an acetylene torch.
You are not using these materials responsibly and as you're the one disseminating this information it is incumbent upon you to address health concerns and to not offhandedly dismiss knowledgeable people like cablemonkey who are trying to help you.
like he said don't eat it
I'm going to have to agree with grenadier on this one. The toxicity of polychlorinated biphenols is of little concern. The rice that caused Yushō disease was also contaminated with Polychlorinated dibenzofurans and Polychlorinated dibenzodioxins; both chemicals much more toxic than PCBs. Those PCDFs and the PCDDs were likely the cause of the health effects experienced by those people, with the PCBs having little to no responsibility.
that step wont delete because its the first step. lol you put all the information in the intro. although you probably already knew that.
"Hopefully to the point where radioshack can actually start selling components again and not just phones and cameras."
Amen to that brother...
Unfortunately the chance of Radio Shack stocking electronic components, are slim to bone. I heard slim left town last week.. Might be wise to buy a few items each pay check to build up a personal inventory while RS still stocks them. YMMV the store here still stocks a limited selection, I hear others don't at all.
Why even bother with Radioshack? Order online from places like Mouser or Digikey. The shipping cost is worth it because you'll be paying a normal price for components, instead of the Radioshack prices of something like a few dollars for five resistors.
can't forget ebay... bought a pack of 100 resistors for $1.10
I'm not sure what the "normal" price is, but 4 cents for a resistor isn't really out of line. In regards to mail order I haven't found anything that comes in much better with all the charges are considered delivered to my door. Been there done that, and always revisiting it to see if it has improved. In 35 years it really hasn't. All things considered the local RS generally was the one to beat. The only thing that has changed is the inventory. Even that means there are new items RS now stocks that I can buy there for less than I can via mail order.
I just don't think it makes sense to stock up on components at RS. 4 cents per isn't out of line, but RS doesn't sell things under .99 for a 5-pack. I do consider 4 cents per a perfectly fine price to pay for component you don't buy in bulk (<100 units, say?).
I think that most people, once they make a list of what they'd like to have on hand for projects, will find it cheaper to look online. It's fairly easy to show that is true if you're looking to stock up on about ten or so common resistor values, and very easy to show if you want to stock up on anything else as well, namely LEDs, transistors, 555 timer chips, hobby motors, switches....all the common project stuff.
Most likely many(most?) parents wouldn't have a clue about current limiting, and still nix the idea. Minor burns they would understand.
Top stuff. Have you ever modified a MOT for high voltage I have and it's awesome?
Wow, I just realized you were the same person who wrote the 'ible on the plasma speaker I had put on my to do list of things to make. Im trying to get into high voltage electricity, but time, money and parents slow that endeavor. It took some convincing to build a railgun. Thank you for this lengthy enlightening guide. It gives me more ideas to add to the list of things to do.
Also, havent checked it out, but my mom works at a place where the buisness upstairs does neon signs. Potential goodies.
hi people
WOAH!! 1.3kw!!!!!!! MAXIMUM RESPECT DUDE!!!!!
im sure if you crank it into kilowatt range you would experience problems,but compared to all the lame oscillators ive ever built (555 astable,transistor flip flop,L.C oscillators,positive feedback audio amplifier oscillators....) this one realy shines!!....i still need to get used to having my semiconductors totally cool and my 0.7mm wire smoking ,as other stuff ive built generally have bipolar transistors breaking out in flames ,for panzy wispy sparks.
thanks for the info about the separate mosfet supply,but i think ill stick with 120w it seems a lot "safer" :)
120W is for wimps, plug it into the rectified mains :p
3 FBTs? Awesome.
Fantastic- immediate Fav!
Read this, I hear evil chuckles of mad science delight....
Added.
And about the diode: I wouldn't say useful, as it is a regular slow diode and it will also probably die if you try to pull an arc through it. Some regular high current diodes in series would be much tougher than that puny plastic thing.
You might be able to wire them in parallel to handle more current, much like you can wire them in series to handle more voltage.
I haven't tested it, but the resistance from the assembly should be (diode resistance) / (# of diodes) because you're multiplying the area of the PN junction by (# of diodes). Since the cross-sectional area of a conductor is inversely proportional to resistance, and resistance is inversely proportional to current, by wiring diodes in parallel you should be able to pull more amps without subjecting each individual diode to more current than it's used to.
I've noticed that for passive components, you can (sometimes) multiply the voltage they can handle by wiring them in series, while you can (usually) multiply the current they can handle by wiring them in parallel.
Very, very nice instructable.
This is one of the best instructables, i have seen so far.
5++++ and my vote for it. (The PCB-Lab, POV is in the same range)
I second, that not too many young people are interested in electronics. (Beside plugging in a game console...)
But there still are, you can see them here.
I made my Ham-license when i was 17.
I have a very funny story about my younger brother, a antistatic bag and a CW cascade.
I was hanging around in my room, playing with this CW, that was scrounged from a powder coating machine.
I had a grounding strap on the floor and a antistatic bag on it. (the metallized bags)
I zapped on the bag and after a short while, a spark ran around the bags edges.
I was quite amazed for a while, until i realized, that the spark vapourized the metallization on the edges.
I switched off the CW and wanted to discard the bag. Holy moly, i got a zap from the bag. After i thought about it, i realized i made a condensator by insulating the edges.
So i reloaded it and at that point my brother entered my room with one of his friends. He was around 8 then... I asked him, if he wanted a bag of electricity. He said, you can't put electricity in a bag. (Now he also works in electronics)
I teased him, ok, then take it.
The rest is history... and we still have a very good relationship.
Heh, I've managed to get quite a jolt from a regular plastic sheet by charging it with a CW. There was no metallization at all, but it still held a charge somehow.
This is an amazing instructable. Having so much relevant and useful information in one place is so convenient. I've been meaning to make myself a a few HV power supplies for a while now and no I have no excuse not to. You've literally done all the work i would have needed to do for me already, thank you! you got my vote for sure, I hope you get your idea up and running soon, you will definitely have my business.
Great work man, Thanks
As so many have already said, awesome job! My electrical engineering students are going to get a LOT of mileage out of this. Thank you very much!
Fantastic instructable, well done! That's the most detailed review of high voltage sources I've ever come across.
Someone this far into HV really needs to build a Tesla coil though. Look forward to seeing yours in a future writeup.
I have tons of magnet wire and the NSTs to make one, and it's on my to-do list. I have a very long to-do list though...
Excellent work, got my vote. And I totally agree with grunff, a Tesla coil is recommended. It took me a few tries to get it right but the result was well worth it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5N5_pGuvyY
My next project will be a DRSSTC.
MSDS for PCBs in case anyone is interested: http://www.gepower.com/prod_serv/products/capacitors/en/downloads/pcb_msds_pcb.pdf
You're right, the toxicity isn't too bad but it never hurts to be careful.
This is exacly what I was looking for. I'm 1 year away from beeing an electrical engineer (well, specialized for Telecommunication), and this is what we should be dooing more.
Wonderful 'ible! especially liked the MOT sections. I'll never throw another MO out again without removing all components.
I do hope you win the Zing!
Side note: my first hand build radio was a crystal, with the added plus of a 3 stage transistor amp driving an 8ohm speaker.
I have found this info in various places on the net but you did a great job putting it in one place. I too would like to see more experimenting and I think you may have encouraged just that. Excellent job!
best of all. now no one will ever post instructables any more on hv. (i think)
Wow. This is literally the best instructable that I've ever read. I only recently started venturing into high voltage projects, a simple welder from another instructable on here, but this is just perfect.
I've been indecisive about trying to do a Jacob's ladder or your plasma speaker for my next project and this gives me so many more tantalizing options.
Well done, sir. You definitely deserve the laser cutter.
I actually hunkered down and read this start to finish despite my initial 'TLDR' reaction. I like your dream and enjoyed your writing :) (especially the part about where to obtain PTs)
You've sold me!
I see the problem you presented (in a strikingly eloquent manner) and I agree, almost no one does this kind of stuff anymore. Everything has correct spelling and grammar which is huge for me. I'm not sure about how far you'll get but I wish you the best of luck and if you manage to get this little business off the ground, I'll be sure to buy from it! You have my vote and I posted it on my Facebook.
I hope you win.
You Win !
Thank You for all the work you put into this 'ible'.
I learned a lot of cool stuff and will be looking at
this post again and again.
You wrote: now most kids don't even know how a radio works let alone how to make one or any other circuit for that matter....
I agree. I am one of the Older set here, and have been finding it difficult to find anyone in my area interested in any "electronics projects" at all, and only a few PC enthusiasts.
I started my Latest ible with the intent of starting at the very basics (super simple crystal sets) to a bit more complex (and making a radio almost completely out of stuff found in the home; and still no connection to the MAINS. :-)
You did a VERY thorough job here, and as a long time subscriber, have to say I am VERY impressed. Thank you for taking the time to share this with all.
wow, this is great, so detailed. even the comments are impressive, in my quick skim over the comments i haven't seen any flaming or people saying "its to dangerous to be an instructable"
You have some laudable goals, Keep in mind it's hard to interest kids in new things if the cost prevents them affording what the other kids are doing. As you mention project that would interest them will be hard to come by High Voltage project may be one of them, they may also be ones that will prompt parent to apply the brakes. Who knows? You mentioned soldering irons. Before making any investment make sure you can compete with local established hardware, and box store. Who often stock Weller soldering irons Just basic soldering irons, but that's all a beginner needs anyway.
Actually the MOT's core is not live, In fact in a microwave oven the MOT's core is electrically connected to the chassis, and if it were hot well then touching a microwave oven would be lethal!
As for the "+", I use + and - to differentiate between secondary windings on a transformer. In a center tapped transformer one HV output will always be negative while the other is positive, and therefore the + and - imply that the outputs cannot be tied together (unless you use diodes on both to make a full wave rectified output).
In transformers with only one secondary winding I designate the output with a +, mainly because transformers are most often used with a diode to create +HVDC rather than -HVDC.
I love the idea stated in your intro, getting kids to make stuff is a great thing. If you don't win the laser, don't give up. Look around your area for hacker shops or Maker groups. My local group has gotten an Epilog, and for minimun cost anyone can use it after taking the training class. I know that Columbus Ohio is not the only city with a maker comunity, so hang in there, and know that there are others who believe like you.