Instructables

How to Hack Your Eagle Award

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Picture of How to Hack Your Eagle Award
Here's how to hack your Eagle award. Some people might want to do this to show support for a change in policies within the Boy Scouts of America.
 
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Step 1: Cut Fabric

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Cut your ribbon. I ordered some 35mm grosgrain ribbon. Measuring ribbon in the US is usually English measure, so I ordered 35mm ribbon from an ebay supplier in the UK. I measured about 80mm in length of the rainbow ribbon.

Step 2: Fold and stitch

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Gently fold, without crimping, the rainbow ribbon in half. Stitch it by hand or with a machine. I used red thread, as that's the standard thread used in the original medal.

Step 3: Flip

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Flip the ribbon inside out.

Step 4: Place onto the motto

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On this medal, the top bar of the medal had a cut in it, which I was surprised to find. I bent it slightly so that I could slide the ribbon back into the medal. Red on the right, as presented to the public. I gently folded at the stitch side, so it was more likely to lay flat.

Step 5: And make it nice

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Bend the metal that's now in the ribbon back into a straight position. Make it meet up like it did before. Be careful not to bend it too far. It's soft metal.

Step 6: Stitch to hold the ribbon

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The ribbon needs to be stitched together on the sides to avoid the ribbon from sliding around. If you don't stitch it, it'll fall and slide and make a mess. I continued to use red thread. I machine stitched on a zero length stitch, but in the next one, I'll hand stitch it. Then prep the ring and the medal for re installation.

Step 7: Insert the ring

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Insert the ring back into the bottom of the ribbon. Push the middle of the ribbon (yellow and green) out toward the front to make it lay right. Make sure that the red or purple don't get folded under and get a crimp in them.
mcflaytus17 days ago

I support your 'ible. There are so many negative comments i thought I'd share my opinion. :)

strigoix5124 days ago

As an Eagle Scout, this is not what the badge is to symbolize, personal beliefs aside (I support the rights of all people). But you have removed what is a symbolic reminder of the three obligations of an Eagle Scout:

Always let the white of the badge remind you to live with honor

Let the blue of this badge remind you to remain loyal.

Let the red of the badge remind you of courage

Those are not the colors of sexual oppression, they are the colors of Honor, Loyalty, and Courage. Some people have been blinded by the rainbow flag. This is no longer the medal of an Eagle Scout, it is a political statement. May you look upon your medal and be reminded of how you discarded your symbols of Honor, Loyalty and Courage that so few bare upon their character for one that is nothing more than an 'in your face BSA' statement that is now meaningless due to policy changes.

Once an Eagle always an Eagle is true, I don't consider what you've done a disgrace or anything like that but I do consider it a disregard for the obligation you have pledged as an Eagle Scout. As long as your character represents that of the promise you made as an Eagle is what matters most to me. Live your life soaring above the land and be something people look up to. That was charged to me upon my award, I charge you to do the same.

That being said in my opinion these colors have no reason to be born upon an Eagle medal.

djsfantasi1 month ago

The Eagle award is a symbol of achievement, not necessarily of policy. However, I side with those who say if one were to change the stripes on Old Glory to rainbow stripes, is it our flag anymore? Is it an act of desecration to the flag? While I support the LBGT community, I still cannot agree with this 'ible. Besides the political statement that bobkrispen is trying to make, he is in violation of the regulations of the organization. If he wants to show support for a change in policies, he should do it within the confines of the organization. Otherwise, it becomes an act of defiance rather than a statement, and he has to accept the consequences (I am thinking back to the 60s protestors). He could design his own award, but it still is subject to approval by BSA.

My source is http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066_Sectio...

Alteration.png
bobkrispen (author)  djsfantasi27 days ago

You can't agree with the 'ible? No, you disagree with the reason behind the 'ible. You may disagree with the statement made by this 'ible. This is a hack of a political nature.

And you're going to trot out the guide to insignia? Come on, I can walk up and down a row of uniformed scouts/scouters (scouters especially!) at any single event at any level and see countless errors according to the insignia guide. My hack is obviously a statement - of course it violates the insignia guide. I don't think you'll find a single person who thinks that this doesn't violate the insignia guide.

The pressure that has been exerted on BSA to change their policies has come from two locations. Inside the organization and outside the organization. We never would have gotten the recent change for youth if it had not been for pressure from both sides. Your statement of "show support for a change in policies, he should do it within the confines of the organization" represents one way to fight for equality. It is a way that you would prefer I engage in. It is NOT the only way in which I have engaged in attempting to effect change. Congrats, you have an opinion too. Ain't it great?

This 'ible did exactly as I expected. And I'm happy that the BSA is slowly walking toward equality and inclusion. They're not where I'd like to be yet and I'll continue to work toward that both from within and from outside the organization.

Thanks for your reply, glad I inspired you to comment. ;)

Radicalone1 year ago
As an American, you have the right to agree or disagree with the beliefs and policies of the BSA. However, that only extents as to whether of not you decide to join the organization.

It does not give you the right to obtain their highest award and desicrate it publicly.

I am sure that all the parents and leaders who spend their time and effort over the years to help you achieve this honor would not be pleased by this instructable.

I sincerely hope that someone in your troop or council finds this instructable and takes back your medal.
I agree with you completely. And anyone who disagrees, deal with it. I have earned this award. It cost me a significant investment of time and energy as well as sacrifice. This is desecration of an award and it would be no different than changing the US Flag to be a rainbow. The Red White and Blue of the ribbon which the Eagle medal hangs from is representative of the flag of our great nation. The rainbow is representative of a degredation in morality and a rebellion against the values which our nation was founded on.

A scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.

On my Honor, I will, do my best, to do my duty, to God and my country and to obey the scout law, to help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

These are the Law and Oath that every scout learns and follows. If you don't believe in God, you arent following the oath you are making and you need to leave the organization. If you stay, then you are not being Honest and Trustworthy. I'm not even gonna get started on being obedient, as those who push this agenda can't understand that.

If you do believe in God yet are pushing this change in the BSA, then you are not being morally straight according to the morals taught by the Bible, which declares that sex between anyone but a man and his wife is adultery, and therefor sinful. While we are all sinners, the difference is being a wilful and unrepentant sinner versus being a repentent sinner who is trying to avoid sin.

If you disagree with me, you are entitled to your own opinion, but I am using the dictionary definition of the words that the scout makes an oath to follow. If you want change, that is your choice, but to break the oath you make in forcing that change is to show dishonor to the very award and to your own honor.

If you haven't earned the award, I'm not interested in your opinion either.
I'm not trying to start a web-argument, but I don't think you can say that the boyscouts inherently must believe in God and follow the bible. Why do they include religious awards for Buddhists, who do not necessarily believe in a God or follow the bible? Confucianism also does not mention any gods, but boys whose families practice that belief system are not excluded.

A scout must be encouraged to develop a conscience. If that conscience leads him not to want to follow a religion...seems contrary to the values of scouting to say he is bad for honestly professing what he believes to be true.

I never really imagined "reverent" as practicing religion. Just didn't make sense. I was in a troop with Catholic, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Scouts, as well as various other belief systems. Obviously I am not expecting my Buddhist friend to go to church on Sundays. I always thought "reverent" meant you always adhered to your own belief system (whatever that may be) and respected that of others.
I agree with this instructible completely. And anyone who disagrees, deal with it.

If you aren't interested in anyone's opinion who has not earned the award, then I'm not interested in your opinion.

P.S.: I  WONDEr, HOW COMe YOU BEHAVE LIKE A 10-YEAR-OLD AND FIGHt FOR YOUR KIDDIE aWArD LIKE IT WAS ALL YOU HAd ON THIS EARTH?




Completely agree with you Captain.
When I joined the Cub Scouts at age SEVEN it wasn't as an infiltrator of this fine, upstanding organization. I didn't even cackle maniacally when I did it. In fact, they came to ME because our school allowed them to come in and promote the group. I don't know if they still do that or not- probably not in most places. I wasn't plotting the downfall of the BSA when I became a Webelo or later a Boy Scout. In fact I was an exemplary Scout, earning badges and taking the organization's lessons to heart. Most people join as Cubs so you can hardly accuse them of joining the BSA with full knowledge or even understanding of their religious/political POV *or* of even of themselves as young adults. So it's rather silly to suggest that "if you don't agree with it, you shouldn't join." They're KIDS. It's only later that some of them discover that although their selves and personal values haven't really changed they are suddenly "unacceptable" to the BSA. The issue isn't being "let in" or of "sneaking INTO" the BSA with dishonorable intentions, it's of being KICKED OUT for things you cannot control. See the difference?
All the people here telling folks not to join the boy scouts if they don't agree with their rules could just follow their own advice. Cya.

But no, the damn hypocrites are just looking for an excuse to act up and pretend they have honor and are straight.

Enjoy your stagetime and the little attention smart people grant you here on the great internet, you poor sod. I don't need to look at your profile to pity you for your poor, valueless life of lies.
Um... no. Just no. Your username, "Radicalone," suggests you may not appreciate the diversity of our country, and the need to celebrate it... but you should open your mind. Also, you have no idea, and no right to presume to have an idea, what his parents and leaders think or do with him. You, sir, are precisely the kind of person who brings disgrace and dishonor to an organization which was founded on the principles of providing a conduit for personal growth and development of future leaders, regardless of race, creed, sex, and religious beliefs. Do your homework... the introduction of religious fundamental structure and "anti-gay" rulings wasn't in place until the late '70s when the Mormon Church started funneling cash into the organization, and essentially "purchased" the head honcho at a premium and began poisoning the organization with their religious beliefs.

http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/bsa_gay_policy.html

Seriously, you need to relax and learn to respect those around you.

Nicely done Instructable! I love it, and I hope you keep it up!
Do your homework.

The introduction of religious fundamental structure dates to the very beginning of scouting. Baden Powell's original Oath in 1908 included the same promise to "do my duty to God" that the Oath has today. If scouting was "poisoned" by religion, it wasn't the Mormons, but the founder himself who did it. Boy Scouts have always been encouraged to believe in God and take an active role in the religious organization of their choosing.

That has nothing to do with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("Mormons"), except that it may have been part of what prompted them to sign on as the BSA's first chartered organization in 1913.

The rulings in the 1970's were due not to changing policies of the BSA, but instead stemmed from increased acceptance of homosexuality in society. BSA policies from the beginning until the 70's were in line with the views of the general public--open homosexuality was taboo, so no need to defend anything. It wasn't until the 1970's when open homosexuality had become more accepted that the BSA actually had to defend long-held beliefs. It certainly wasn't because Mormons had just joined the party.
bobkrispen (author)  Radicalone1 year ago
> I sincerely hope that someone in your troop or
> council finds this instructable and takes back your medal.

Once an Eagle, always an Eagle. And if I lost the medal, if I sold the medal if someone stole the metal, a group of militant eagle medal hunters wanted to hunt down my medal and take it away, I would still be an Eagle.

I've said it several times in the past and a brilliant DESA recipient recently said this "It's not the medal, it's the mettle."

I've heard from plenty of Eagles, plenty of parents, plenty of leaders that appreciate this hack. I've heard from plenty of gay eagles, atheist eagles and those that are neither, but still support this kind of method of protest.

This is MY award that I've hacked. Because it's mine, it's not yours. Because it's not yours, I can't desecrate it. If I hacked yours, you might have a legitimate reason to call it desecration. But this is mine, and I'm entitled to do with it what I want.
I am a Scoutmaster and encourage all the scouts in my charge to think for themselves. That is part of scouting and one of the goals of scouting. At some point in anyone's life that person must decide what he believes in and take action on those beliefs. If you have chosen to change your beliefs that is wonderful. However, changing your beliefs does not give you the right to be disrespectful to a symbol of the work you put forth to earn that symbol or the people who taught and helped you along the path to Eagle. Freedom of association is a core principle of the Constitution. The BSA may choose with whom to associate or not and by choosing is neither intolerant nor demeaning. Your action, however, is both.
Years ago there used to be laws in the USA that supported discrimination against black people. One reason those laws no longer exist is that people protested in many different ways against these laws and the policies of government that supported them. Using your logic the people who protested against the widespread bigotry in the USA of years past were being disrespectful.

Sometimes the greatest respect one can express is to counter the status quo and support human rights.
He didn't "obtain" it. He earned it. As for desecration? It could be argued that this scout is upholding the principles of the rank, even if they may conflict with the parent organization's current policies.

It's interesting that you know all the parents and leaders in the organization are homophobic bigots. Can I borrow your crystal ball?

Being an Eagle Scout is most certainly not about obtaining the physical medal. I sincerely hope that someone in your community finds this comment and helps you understand that it's okay for people to have differing opinions.
lbrewer42 Kozz1 year ago
Sure its Ok to have differing opinions, but when those opinions are going o force a private individual/organization to give up his veteran-blood-bought American freedoms, then those holding those opinions MUST, to be American, realize their OPINIONS must come secondary to forcing a private organization to give up its personal rights.

So do you want a dictatorial state? See the big picture please
I have no opinion as to whether or not the parents or leaders were "homophobic bigots" as you say. However, I can only assume from your statement that you think I am. That being said, it is obvious that you have made your mind up already as to MY mindset and therefore will not waste my time confirming or denying your conclusion.

I will however say that I am fairly positive that if a person posted an instructable showing how to hack a Purple Heart, all the outcry would not come from "right wing nutjobs" (as I am sure you would label them).

By the way, I live in New Rochelle, NY. Troop 15.
Thought I would add in here to support you. I earned my Eagle in 1998 from Troop 1 in Duncanville, Texas. I am also a brotherhood member of Order of the Arrow and I am a disable veteran/SGT from service in Iraq. I am now a men's minister in Dallas and I firmly belive and support the BSA in thier policies and in the Scout Oath and Law.
He violated the scout oath and law. In doing so, he did not earn it, he lied for it. That is a violation of the oath and law.

It's okay for people to have differing opinions. It is not okay for someone to change what an award means to make it fit thier opinion when that goes against everything that the organization and those who have sacrificed so much for the award stand for.
One of the ways to "obtain" something is to earn it. The definition of the word is "To succeed in gaining possession of as the result of planning or endeavor; acquire" I don't doubt the author properly obtained/earned the award. As for the organizations "current policies" I would like to see your definition of "current" The policies have not changed since the organization began, they've only just begun (last 20-30 years) to be questioned.
bobkrispen (author) 1 year ago
Damn, must have done somethin' right with this. Looks like the BSA is changing policy.
Woot!!! Just what I was thinking.
TGP1 year ago
This is a wonderful hack. Thank you. As the proud older sibling to one eagle scout and two more boy scouts, child of a scout master and den mother, I appreciate the hardwork it takes in earning this award. And as a member of the LGBT community myself, I also thank you for your support and openmindedness.

This may seem like a small point of rebelion to you, but to me, it is part of a growing voice in our world. It is my hope that this voice will someday reach the BSA and they will become as all inclusive as they were claimed to be. Someday, being gay won't make you evil, morally corrupt, or a boogeyman.

So, thank you. Hopefully all the bad comments aren't getting you down :)
bobkrispen (author)  TGP1 year ago
> Hopefully all the bad comments aren't getting you down :)

Most of the negative comments are related to one of a few things. Against my right to modify my own property, am unworthy of the rank (once and Eagle... ), homophobic or merely people yelling loudly to cling to their own notions of their right to exclude people because they're afraid of them. It is, at this point, mostly entertaining to re-read some of the vitriol that some supposedly "courteous" and "kind" people have spewed.

When one stirs up this kind of controversy, chances are, they're onto something good.

Thanks for the positive reinforcement. Someday... someday we'll get there.
olistr1 year ago
Awesome. Hope the boyscouts find their way into the 21st century eventually.
Martyka1 year ago
what is the eagle scout award? Is is the highest award? Because here in Australia our highest award for Venturer scouts is the Queen Scout Award
bobkrispen (author)  Martyka1 year ago
Yes, we have "Eagle Scout" as the top award for the "Boy Scouts" segment of our youth program. We've had Eagle Scout for 100 years now. I know that in countries where there are royal families, they often have "Queen's Scout" or "King's Scout" depending on the reigning royal, but the US, without such royal families, went for Eagle Scout.

In other programs (Venture is our older youth program, Sea Scouting a subset thereof) have awards like Ranger or Quartermaster, though those apex youth awards have changed over the years (Silver Explorer, as one example).

The most recognized apex award in scouting is, however, the Eagle Scout award. Until 1952, adults could earn the Eagle Scout award. Since then, it's a youth only award.
thesamhill1 year ago
I teach in a criminal justice department with a homeland security program. A lot of my colleagues - former police and military officers - have medals in shadowboxes on display. I think the shadowboxes look pretty sharp, but they tend to give the office a military air and, to my mind, might tend to make our LGBTQ students a bit nervous (even though my colleagues themselves are very supportive). I think I'll try this and display it in my office in a shadowbox, provided I can find my Eagle. Thanks!
@thesamhill - I hesitate to point this out, but the award ceases to be an Eagle Scout award when it is changed. The award was awarded under the current policies. If you change an organization to fit everyone's ideals, then it ceases to be an organization that truly inspires. Look at the Girl Scouts and the drop of their message now. Not just the LGBTQ message of equality, but the message that in an elite organization, it is harder to win the highest coveted award... and for a reason.

It is not the "military air" nor is it medals on display. It is highly coveted, hard earned actions. That's why they give out so few Medals of Honor, because if it were easy then the medal would have no value.

The Medal of Honor with a rainbow field is just not the same and it's not a Medal of Honor. Neither is the Eagle Scout award an Eagle Scout Award with it's field changed to a rainbow one. This is about the Red White and Blue not about what your sexual orientation.

If you don't like the way they award the Eagle Rank, then find an organization that allows what you are looking for and join them. It isn't a bad thing to strive for a higher standard.

Annie
Mother of an Eagle Scout
Wife of a retired Naval Officer
Former military
Daughter of a Decorated Army Officer
antioch sires61 year ago
You, like the bulk of the US military personel, are mistaking medals for currency. Quite repulsive to anyone who has earned his medal.

Turning the scouts into a red-white-and-blue band of parole-singing and flag-swinging molestors and disciminators is what took place in the US.
A disgrace to international boy (and girl) scouts.

Unfortunately you will disagree and thus be unable to see how this could expose the severe hypocrisy in your complaint. And how all this fits in with your family's obsession with organizations that sell honor and glory cheaply to people with low standards.
sires6 antioch1 year ago
When your comment actually makes sense, I'll answer it.
antioch sires61 year ago
Take your time, I know you'll need it ;)
I myself am a gay boy scout that only has the eagle project to do in order to obtain the requirements to be an eagle. If I'm reading your comment correctly, you are saying if I lost the patches you earn along with the certificate of advancement, I would no longer have earned those things? Also, "If you don't like the way they award the Eagle Rank, then find an organization that allows what you are looking for and join them. It isn't a bad thing to strive for a higher standard. " , basically, what you're saying is because I'm gay I automatically forfeit the rights to my eagle award should I earn it? And you claim to be so acquainted with the legal system yet you ignore the part of the constitution that says freedom of speech and expression. And finally, this is not your award, there is no law against doing this, and apparently things have changed where women are the people who decide how BSA works. And in your self appointed jurisdiction it has become law that if a boy scout should modify his own property he automatically forfeits all rights to claim possession of that property and anything that associates with it at any given moment. I'm really not a mean person but your comments are ignorant and mislead.
No, you read it wrong. Reread it. I was talking about the nature of awarded medals. They are representative of the organization that awards them.

It is like anything, if you want to modify it and make it yours, sure, go ahead. But it ceases to be an Eagle Scout Award.

That is not ignorance.
Thanks for your comment. I respect the passion and respect your opinion.

Just personally, I feel like the BSA policy is a betrayal of what the Eagle stands for. For me, this is a way to say "I'm an Eagle and I disagree with this." The fact that I would modify the Eagle medal itself is a statement of the depth of my feeling. It's OK with me if you disagree, and I appreciate your insights.
I get your point about the value of a medal being its difficulty to earn, but that is not the point of this 'ible. Saying the BSA is "elite" because some people aren't allowed join due to their sexual orientation is ridiculous. I've been in scouts my whole life, and perhaps Scouting Ireland is more liberal than the BSA, but that kind of thinking would have no place in our organisation. Scouting doctrine is about supporting young people, not ostracising them.

To get back on topic though, this instructable is about @bobkrispen expressing his displeasure about the BSA's policies, and it has already started a debate about something that needs to be talked about and I completely support him/her.

Irish Scout Leader
Holder of Chief Scout's Award (Irish equivalent of Eagle)
FYI, Scouting Ireland's statement: http://www.scouts.ie/news/article/press_statement_on_the_stance_taken_by_bsa-562.html
is it bad for someone to improve the organisation it is in ?

When I don't agree with my governement, should I leave my country ? or just show my disaprobation ? would 45+% of the population leave the USA when either Barrack or Mitt get elected ?

It seems like some people try to force their view on others, it is in some way political but very natural, everything evolve over time.

"The Medal of Honor with a rainbow field is just not the same and it's not a Medal of Honor". I disagree, what is important, the bit of metal or what it represents ? He earned his eagle, even if he changed the ribbon, you can't deny he earned it !
For me, the message is clear: "I am proud to be a scout, I am proud of my achievement, but I wish a few things were different . . . "
Very well said.

You do honor to both the BSA and our miltary services.
I another Eagle Scout who finds this instructable very offensive. It is hands down a desecration, and agree with comments that it is no different than desecrating an American flag in protest of an American policy. What is worse is that you are a voluntarily a member of this organization and rather than respectfully leaving, you choose to both remain a member and openly mock them at the same time. That is what I consider a complete failure to follow the Scout Law and Oath.

I am also a bit shocked at the mean spirited comments here to those who hold the same viewpoint as the BSA. It isn't bigotry to disagree with the sexual actions of an adult. I don't agree with people who have multiple spouses, but that doesn't make me a bigot about it. To all those commenters: please quit throwing judgemental names like "bigot", "hateful" and "intolerant" around. If you are trying to prove a point of tolerance, then you are being counter productive.There are decent people here who may disagree with you, but they respectful to your and others, and being respectful a big part of what being a Boy Scout is about.
Desecration is an act of blasphemous behavior or profanation of a sacred item - while you may argue that the BSA stands for some virtues of Christianity, the medal itself is not a holy or sacred item, and ergo, this is not desecration. Learn the meanings of the words you use.

Furthermore, making the argument that "if you don't like it then leave" is a completely immature and thoughtless statement. Do you not make repairs to your own house when you find something wrong rather than abandon it completely to find another? Do you leave the country (the typical usage of this idiotic statement) when you want a different politician in office? The Scout Law and Oath is and has always been open to interpretation by those who follow and uphold it. To act as if it is an absolute and that YOUR interpretation, or anyone else's, is the only one, and that the organization cannot and should not be changed from within by those who believe it needs to, is disingenuous at least and completely ignorant and hateful at worst.
You should realize that the Eagle rank is the most sacred honor held by the Boy Scouts of America. To defile it is desecration. I know the meaning of the word and the significance of the honor. Just because you don't value it doesn't make it any less of a desecration.


You should realize that ranks, awards, big words mean nothing to a boy scout. It's about living a life of virtues. That's what's 'sacred' to boy scouts. And something that you have consequently failed to display.

The use of the word "defile" does not make the use of the word "desecration" sound more plausible.

Just because the Eagle award is all that you will ever look up to in your life doesn't give it any real value. And no, not even if it's an american one.

It is obvious you don't know why those ranks and awards are earned. They are by definition a symbol of living up to the meaning and character of the Boy Scouts. Taking the central symbol of demonstrating all that the Boys Scouts Stand for, and trashing it does is horribly disrespectful the Boy Scouts.

The rank and award is the result of living as a Boy Scout. The award itself might not be the goal of any true Boy Scout, to earn it is the greatest honor you can receive. Desecrating the highest award and what it stands for is in no way a constructive or honorable way to show you disagree with a policy they have.
i am an Eagle Scout, and Vigil Honor Member, and frankly, I think you're a bit out of line.

First, the Eagle Award is not an honor -- it is earned. Anyone who goes through the motions can earn it. It certainly is a big deal to earn it, and it looks very good to people outside of the organization because of the dedication and hard work it entails. Let me be clear here: I am not trying to downplay the importance of the award, I just think you're making a bigger deal out of this than you should be.

Second, this is a very constructive (and rather creative) way to show disagreement with policy. As an aside, I feel like that, and other exclusionary policies have no place in Scouting.

Are you also offended by people who put up gay pride flags in lieu of an american flag? What about the Christian Flag of America?

Get off your goddamn high horse.
When they deface a real flag to do so, yes.

When they create their own symbol, no.

It's called having respect.
You don't know the first thing about respect. Just blind adherence to your dogma.
So protesting an exclusionary policy is defilement? I see a very clever protest of a policy that has no defense.
There are many ways to protest. The gentleman here chose to protest in a manner very disrespectful to other Eagle Scouts and what they accomplished. He is entitled to opinion, but when that involves mocking an achievement highly revered for a hundred years by Boy Scouts of every generation, that is where it becomes defilement and offensive.

You only see the policy as having no defense because you are either choosing to ignore or simply unable to see a different point of view on the topic. If there was truly no defense, then logically it wouldn't be a controversial issue.
Look who's talking about not being able to see someone else's point of view? You have to go to incredible lengths, ('sacred, disrespectful, unpatriotic, defilement? All from someone putting a rainbow piece of cloth on an eagle pin? Get a grip.
He never once discussed his opinion on the policy. He discussed that it is, in his opinion, incorrect to change the medal for a purpose other than what it was originally intended. Please respond to what he writes, and do not extrapolate his opinions on the morality of the instructable to his opinions on the Boy Scout policy. That is a logical conclusion that cannot be made.

I do believe that this is disrespectful to the organization, and to the award. It is politicizing the award and making it a means to an end. I would rather people do stuff like this:

Pay attention specifically to the knot, as that one is probably the most effective (People in scouting understand).
http://www.scoutingforall.org/data/layer02/store.html

There are great ideas out there for protests, this instructable is not one of them.
get a life.
good response
Actually, it is a perfectly salient response. You seem to have far too much time to devote to dictating proper beliefs, attitudes, and behaviours to other in matters that are clearly none of your business. For one thing, your, and the other poster's silence on the matter makes it clear that neither of you are Eagle scouts, and as such, your silly outrage is neither pertinent, nor founded.
And you only see hyperbole. Stop accusing others of being intolerant because they don't agree with you. You call it disrespectful, unpatriotic, desecration, etc., etc. The exclusionist policy is what is disrespectful, unpatriotic, and soils the scouting tradition, not this person's instructable.
Vigo: Freedom of Speech.
kccd antioch1 year ago
Antioch, are you an eagle scout?
You might want to reread your hand book. No where does it refer to the Eagle rank as sacred. Even if it did, that says nothing of the medal itself. How about the word? Can an Eagle scout say bad things about Eagles? Can I route for the Steelers? Where does it end?
Also, changing out the ribbon on a medal is not an act of desecration, per se.
Lastly, no, you apparently do not know the meaning of the word. You personal estimation of value does not have any bearing on whether or not it is an act of desecration. If it did, then so does anyone else's, and so no one can desecrate anything if they have no such beliefs.

As to the argument, if you don't like it, then leave, You might wish to contemplate where the BSA would be if the founding fathers of this country had taken the same attitude. Hint: There would not be any U.S.A. for there to be a BSA.
See my below post. The desecration is not of the medal, but what is stands for. Just like burning an American flag. Cheap American Flags are a dime a dozen, but burning one to make a statement is an act of desecration.

From your statement here: "As to the argument, if you don't like it, then leave, You might wish to contemplate where the BSA would be if the founding fathers of this country had taken the same attitude. Hint: There would not be any U.S.A. for there to be a BSA."
Actually, that is the exact value and attitude of the founding fathers. America was the place they left to. They left from the oppressive rulers in Europe.



First, regardless of what you were taught in indoctrination 101, burning the flag is NOT desecrating it. In fact, flab burning is the ONLY way to legitimately decommission a flag. So your example is just misinformed. Likewise, unless the medal stands for bigotry, then swapping out the ribbon in no way desecrates what it "stands for". If it DOES stand for bigotry, then I have no issue desecrating it.

As to the last but, you might want to consider retaking your class in American history. First, the majority of our founding fathers did NOT come her to escape persecution. Where on earth did you get that idea. Do you believe Jefferson and Franklin came over on the Mayflower?!? Most settlers came over for abundant land and increased economic opportunities offered by a land of virgin resources.
Please pray tell, if the the majority came over to escape religious persecution, why was the Anglican Church of England the most populated church in the colonies, and the church whose members included Washington?
In fact, the American history you think you know is nothing more than a myth, and a myth so obviously false in its inconsistencies, that there is little to no excuse for grown adults believing it.
In fact, the founders almost to a one were very reluctant to secede, because they were LOYAL subjects of the British Crown. Seriously, your knowledge of American history is sketchy at best.
But even if that were not the case, my point still stands. They were subjects of a political system where the status quo was to remain so. If they took the attitude that if they didn't like it, they should leave it, they would have NOT come to the colonies, which would NOT have been leaving it, they would have gone someplace NOT within the British Empire.
Sigh, learn to read. I said burning a flag to make a statement. I didn't say burning to decommission.

Second, I very well know my history, and our founding fathers did see America as shelter from European dictatorship. It is why we fought the revolutonary war, because the British Empire was extending their control into the Americas without allowing representation. Those practices had become increasingly iron fisted. The entire point of the declaration of Independence was to declare that they were living in free land not under empirical rule.
My dear sire:
I would politely suggest that it is you who enlists in Hooked on Phonics. Burning a flag for ANY reason is not desecration. How are you claiming says this? Certainly it is NOT part of the U.S. flag code of flag rules and etiquette. Surely you would have read those before making such a declarative announcement of fact:
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm
Also, you might want to reread your U.S. History primer. The founders almost to a man did NOT originally come here to escape dictatorship. In fact, many argued vociferously in favour of staying with the crown. You are free to pretend that this is not the case, but how about you back that up with a citation.
Please list which of the signers of the Declaration of Independence came to this country to escape dictatorship.
I am well versed in the rationale for the Revolutionary War, or the professed cause, a fight against taxation without representation, however that has NOTHING to do with why they CAME here. And in terms of the "if you don't like it, then leave," comment, that is the motivation that is relevant.
So, let's see that list.
I love how the link you provided both states that a flag cannot be used in a manner that damages it, and calls misuse of the desecration. Your own source condradicts both your points of flag desecration.

Also, if you don't believe that the revolutionary war was was not fought by people who left to America as refuge from European rule and their sons, then you need to read the most influential document to incite the revolution, Common Sense by Thomas Paine. Its an excellent read.
Not just a bit disingenuous. First, that is NOT what the flag code is saying. It is talking about it's use as a flag. Nor does it at ANY point refer to misuse as desecration. In fact, nowhere in the entire code is the word used.
As to your bit about Paine, this is a perfect example of your failure to properly employ logical reasoning. NOTHING about Paine's "Common Sense" has ANYTHING to do with why he emigrated from England! Did you bother to research before you posted? Because Paine is a TERRIBLE example. In fact, Paine worked in British government as a TAX OFFICER prior to leaving for the colonies. He emigrated to the colonies after a series of events, starting with his firing from his job at the excise office due to failure to show up, followed by the failure of his business, which caused him have to sell off all his assets to avoid going to debtor's prison, resulting in his separation from his wife. This lead to his invitation to come to the colonies from Benjamin Franklin via his mutual acquaintance, the mathematician and Commissioner of the Excise George Lewis Scott.
His leaving had NOTHING to do with seeking refuge from British rule. History is not something you make up to suit your argument. It certainly does not back up your case here.
Its right on the top in the preamble. Stating that the penalties for such desecration is covered in Title 18, chapter 33. The point referring to misuse of the flag is in Section 8. The portion that would cover flag disrespectful flag burning is in article g.

You also seem to only understand leaving British rule in a physical sense. America's declaration of Independence was their leaving King George's rule. They didn't physically pack their bags and go anywhere. They simply declared America free soil. This is exactly what Paine's Common Sense is all about. Declaring Independence is refuge from British Rule.
Oh god, really?!? First, the section above the preamble is NOT in the Flag Code. That is why it is called the PREamble. There is no pre-preamble. That section is just notes from the person who wrote the website! And again, desecration is mentioned NOWHERE in the code. Anywhere.
Second, the discussion is as to why the founders came to this country it is not, and never was, despite your attempt at the logically fallacious shifting argument, about metaphorical emigration to the colonies. It is about why they actually came here in the first place. You claim they came here to escape religious persecution. In fact, none of them did.
First off, you don't get to say what it is about, because I am the one that brought it up. Second, you yourself signed on to the topic with your own statement:
"... America was the place they left to. They left from the oppressive rulers in Europe."
And again, no they didn't. So you can add rhetorical dishonesty to your illustrious list of credentials.
And reiterate, if you want to not be a hypocrite, please feel free to follow your own dictates. This is instructable WAS published. If you don't like it, you now what to do.
Quit trolling, man. This is what the preamble refers to.

(1) Whoever knowingly mutilates, defaces, physically defiles, burns, maintains on the floor or ground, or tramples upon any flag of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/700

debate that. It's black and white.




Dude. When people realize that you are utterly unable to comprehend anything that contradicts your beliefs. That, just that. That's why and that's when they start getting mad. And then they just stop responding because they realize it's pointless. Or they start insulting you. Because it's the next-best thing to giving you the wake up slap in the face that you so desperately need.

You need help. Go get it now. Don't reply, don't hesitate, just go and make an appointment.
Again, that is NOT the preamble. What part of that are you not understanding. THERE IS NO PREAMBLE TO THE FLAG CODE.
As to your foolhardy reference to §18/700 of the USC, the United States Supreme Court riled in 1989 in Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397, and again in 1990 reaffirmed in U.S. v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 that it is unconstitutional for a government (whether federal, state, or municipality) to prohibit the desecration of a flag, so this supposed "law" is invalid, and CAN NOT BE enforced. I.e., it is NOT the law.
Consider the issue debated.
And that you have been proved wrong.
Again.
correction for the above....article e.
Learn to read this instructible then.
This medal is not changed to desecrate it (hoho, how dare I use your favourite word without permission!) but to upgrade it. Hacked to improve. That's something like decommissioning, just the other way round.

Your interpretation of 'your history' is just as wild and fantastic as all your reasoning. I'm not gonna get into how much more complicated it was and how you just picked out and twisted the a few facts to make it all sound ridiculously brave and glorious and heroic. I'll just state my concern that you might actually not be miseducated. Not just.
Oct 25, 2012. 9:29 PMManifoldSky says:
Oh, and BTW, Instructables clearly thinks this instructable belongs on this site.
If you don't like it, then leave.
It's no honor and it's not sacred.
You are just a little boy taking all sorts of important sounding words (let me take this opportunity to point to you saying 'ad hominem argument' and 'self-hypocrisy') in your loud, inexperienced mouth without any idea how to use them.
Please, stop that. Shut up. Back to your gaming console, now. I'm not saying this for myself or anyone else, I'm just trying to protect you from yourself and the harsh world that will rudely stomp on you when you do this stuff outside the internet.

Stop trying to define defilement and desecration. You are a dumb, little boy that somehow found his way from his gaming console to dad's keyboard. You have just successfully demonstrated how utterly useless it is to know a word when it is not what you want it to be. No matter how hard you want.
Your knowledge of the honor's significance is illusional just as the honor itself.

Just because you value something doesn't make it any more of a desecration when people improve it.
When you look to be insulted, you are seldom disappointed.
I'm a little shocked at your vociferous defense of an exclusionary policy.
At what point have I defended any policy? I strictly based my commentary on the treatment of the the Eagle Scout rank and voiced my concern over the people here who have called those who disagree with them things like hateful, bigots, intolerant, etc. Do you think hateful name calling has any place here? Probably not. I am encouraging people to adhere to the "be nice" policy. For anyone sprewing that kind of garbage around here: The world is a much better place when you realize that the people who disagree with you are not hateful bigots.
Crawl down off your cross and we'll talk.
troll troll troll
knickers in a bunch?
wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
Although you can argue that this is desecration, that is the poster's right.

One of the main ideals of BSA is civil duty. I don't look favorably upon homosexuals, but who am I to dictate their sexuality? Although the BSA is apparently a private organization, they receive enough funding and benefits from the government that they loose their right to exclude people.

I am also an athiest, and I suspect that almost lost me the award.

Many Eagles have returned their metals in protest of these exclusionary policies.

If the BSA wants to preach tolerance, honor, and individual rights, they should certainly practice them.

ramses ramses1 year ago
That said, it was very risk of Instructables to put this in their newsletter. Belligerent, in fact.

Doing so implies that they agree with the message of this instructable.
Actually, there's no real risk in Instructables.com allowing a member to post instructions on how to exchange one piece of cloth for another. Further, because they allow the instructable, doesn't necessarily mean they agree with its message.

Freedom of speech must be tolerated, good or bad. When we start deciding not to allow something, just because we personally disagree with it, we take the freedom out of it.

I personally don't care for the person who did this, as I feel they are showing disrespect to the Boy Scouts; but then again, I can't see a large number of Scouts crying over this. There are many more important things in the world than arguing over one person's desire to gain their 15 minutes of fame (which they apparently did quite well).
I agree wholeheartedly.

I do think it was risky for them to include it in their 'featured' newsletter. This at least implies some agreement with the message, even if that was not their intent.
The moment the OP altered the badge, it was no longer an official Eagle pin. It became a statement about the BSA's policy on gays. In some circles, people call that "art" others might call it "freedom of expression." It does seem more political than instructible.

If someone gets hugely offended every time a symbol they like is messed up for emotional impact, I would suggest Ativan. Pro hint, "That is why they are doing it."
antioch1 year ago
soooo many words, sooo little reason. yet you're so much fun to troll because of your ignorance. girlcousin also has it about right when talking about your crayons. to no avail, though: it's not like anyone on here could ever give you any insights about yourself. because a while ago you discovered that as long as you sound convincing and smart to yourself you are practically invincible in the world-wide intarwebs!

most people here have better things to do in their time than explaining to you why everything you say is invalidating itself and how your small intellect falls prey to poor education. but hey, why don't you print out your witty replies, pay some kids to find logical flaws in your reasoning. they will have an easy time and they'll be willing to help you cheaply. it also easier running away from them (and their ugly truth).
M.Adams1 year ago
I am a Eagle Scout and I fully support this "Hack". We as human beings do lots of contradictory things I support the BSA but not the policy on sexuality. I completed my Eagle Scout Award so that I could help change the current policy.

The most American display of free speech is to burn ones own flag, its a display that would result in sever punishment in many places in the world.

The BSA is not a Christian organisation it is secular, the only requirement is that a scout believe in a higher power. As such I believe that some one else's religious text should not be taken as the final say on any topic.
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Awards/ReligiousAwards/chart.aspx

Lastly as this is a transformative criticism and possibly parody alteration to a copyrighted emblem it is fully covered under copyright laws due to fair use.
Notice your own words - you completed it so you could help change the current policy.

Your very words show your goal was not to be a part of an (American) PRIVATELY owned and free organization to fulfill ITS stated agenda.

Rather your own opinions wrongly became the focus.

If you truly want the BSA to be forced into the opinions of others - then you rob a proud American institution of the freedoms it is guaranteed under the Constitution.

Rather start your own organization with your own opinions. And i can guarantee if you did, you would, rightly so, be the first one to fight against it when someone tried to tell you you WILL change to suite their opinions.

See the bigger picture. This is a liberal ploy of getting rid of our freedoms.

You say:
The most American display of free speech is to burn ones own flag, its a display that would result in sever punishment in many places in the world.

no one who knows the actual history of our country - and actually KNOWS the freedoms they enjoy would do such a thing. However, it IS allowed b/c of our freedoms.

In the same vain of thought - we need t make sure our government and public opinion cannot ever dictate to us what we will and will not agree with/believe. And the absurd removal of a patriotic symbol from this medal.
vein - not vain
the scouts are not immune to reformation and change (like, when someone decided to include religious terms in some chapters' constitutions).
and everybody is free to initiate this from outside or from within, before or after or whenever it pleases him.
not when it comes to insecure types who would wish people who question, argue or even disagree (!) just shut up and go away to make their own organization.
telling scouts to leave if unhappy with the circumstances is conservativism in its most primitive, infantile and contraproductive form. it's undemocratic, unamerican and a disgrace to the values of the boy (and girl) scouts.

almost all the anti-posts here share one major trait: they reeks of hypocrisy and lacks integrity. if i was to follow your example, i would tell you to shut up and leave instructables, if you don't like this. then i'd lean back and enjoy yor raging all over the place. =]

btw. the term "liberal ploy" roots in the mccarthy era and that's where you would probably be happier. or in some orwellian world.
it also marks you as political extremist since you believe in a bipolarity of politics, where the side you are not on is vile, evil and treacherous.
we don't need any of that, america doesn't need any of that. neither does the world, but we're a long way from developing the brain capacity required for that.

also note that the american boyscouts are the most perverted and distorted of all the internation boy scout associations. sexual and violent transgressions are as numerous as the amount of cowardly cover-ups. the regular eagle medal is a worthless piece of metal that can be bought by anyone with a little anxiety and some spare time.

this instructabe has been made by one with a spine, one of the few who actually learned something in the boy scouts, one of the few who actually brought honor to the ideal - unlike all the spineless scum screaming for censorship and talking about desecration and how their own honor is tainted by this.
christ...


Wasn't it boy scout camp where Huckabee's son tortured a dog to death?
no idea - bad things happen all the time and everywhere
You're living proof of that.
Yes - reality based on facts can be harsh when people do not want to accept it.

BTW - Ad hominem responses invalidate the people who post them and, by definition, verifies the person proffering the ad hominem response knows they are wrong - hence they rely upon an emotionally based attack of character. Yours is an ad hominem reply in its truest sense.

I am sure that you could probably say something constructive and valid if you would, indeed, do some research into the facts.

The desire to know what is factual needs be elevated above all personal, non-factually (normally emotional only) based agenda. History shows non-factual, agenda driven people are easiest prey for those who would manipulate them as puppets. They are being led around, being told what to do and say, and are not even aware of it.

I cannot say if this is what you are like since all I know is you made an ad hominem response. However, ad hominem statements are typical of people who are unknowing, PC puppets...so be careful.
I did say something constructive. I can tell by your prissy response. Probably took you all day to come up with. Congrats.
Strictly ad hominem - you have invalidated yourself and only added credence to what I have posted.

Do a little research to find out what this term means and how it affects what you say.
Well, I will CERTAINLY cry into my little pillow over that. And as far as looking up ad hominem--I'll leave that to you. It will be a good assignment for your 6th grade class project.
My profession of both a counselor and a teacher includes (and has for many, many years) helping people to reason logically. The approach i have been trained to use is one of training a person to identify their own personality type so as to define and minimize their own weaknesses and maximize their strengths - in an effort to help them maximize their innate sense of critical thinking. Our society is one in which this innate ability is not fostered in a good many educational institutions.

I am sorry you feel a need to vent your emotions instead of taking the time to see how your own responses are the equivalent of the old saying, "Open mouth, insert foot, chew vigorously."

I hope you take the time to understand how this has happened. And please do not take this the wrong way, but you tell me it will help my "6th grade class project," and yet 6th grade children are normally the ones who hurtleinsults back and forth instead of being able to calmly discuss and reason through issues. Again, I am NOT "throwing this back at you." I am trying to point out to you that you have again used circular reasoning - likely indicating a use of emotions and no logical reasoning. I have no doubt you are capable of much more.

I also realize that as an imperfect human being, I have no right to insult anyone else's character since I make mistakes myself! This is why i rely on fact and reason instead of emotion. This mindset is always a solid basis in training people to better themselves.

I honestly do wish you the best. I think at the root of things you are most likely a very nice person who has great passion for their personal opinions - a great strength when harnessed to promote facts. I really hope you will take the time to better understand what thinking processes and approaches have produced this discussion because a person (myself included) can only improve themselves through knowledge.

I also value situations like this set of posts b/c it helps to educate everyone (myself included) about good debate skills and helps some people (I have been told this privately in emails form others) to better their reasoning skills and effectiveness in discerning fact from fiction. i wish you the best and would encourage you to put some time/research what you say/believe since it will help you avoid invalidating your position and minimize making mistakes.


If I truly believed you were a counselor I would call the licensing agency responsible for letting you be in charge of anything. As far as educating, this is the most pompous drivel I have seen in a long time. But it is hardly surprising you claim to be a counselor. Many short men with oversized egos usually go for law or counseling due to the control issues they have.
I find it amazing that a person can continually hurl insults, provide no facts of anything they are saying, and expect anyone to take them seriously.

List something factual, researchable, and verifiable or continue your current path if it makes you feel better.

I admit am finding it hard to believe you are serious in what you post since you have not made an attempt to do anything but hurl meaningless insults. But to each his own

I seriously do wish the best for you in the future.

And I find it amazing that you are so clueless as to what your posts show about you, Mr. Ad Hominem. I only wish you more of what you already are. That's the worst curse I could ever put on you.
Your clarification concerning any factual falsehoods I have posted would be appreciated.

Verifiable fact and definitions that do not hold with a pc agenda commonly result in ad hominem responses.

Look up the term ad hominem - don't ignore it. You fell into the trap of using it in your reply. You have invalidated yourself.
And I'm sure you have it stenciled all over your mom's basement!
Do you have anything legitimate to contribute?

I am sure you can do better. The problem is that most people who have no idea what the mentioned term means are actually a lot more intelligent than the nature of the method they indadvertedly used. They have just not learned substituting emotion for reason is advantageous for no one in a discussion or in the real world.
girlcousin-
I have no idea whether or not Huckabee has a son. You clearly do not like him (Huckabee), and you are much more aware of him than I....Hmmmm
Free to initiate - good idea.

Coerce and deface to gain an agenda - childish, anti-patriotic (in this case), and aids in loss of freedoms.

BTW - please look up the term ad hominem. It is very clear by your statement, " when it comes to insecure types" falls into this category. By definition, you have invalidated your position. Calling someone insecure with no factual evidence (and emotions cannot be proven factually), shows the person proffering the ad hominem statement is not using rationale and fact as their total basis.

You also cannot know if "anti" posts are hypocritical. The term raging also implies a lack of willingness to look into the actual stated facts.

BTW - do a web search for McCarthy vindicated - you will find your history has also bee a bit tainted.

You also make interesting assumptions concerning what I do and do not believe "bipolarity of politics," etc. True science and fact realize you cannot know the mindset of another individual until you ask them exactly what their mindset is. And then you must make sure the terms are defined.the same.

I will make a comment as to your stated aversion (note i am not assuming your mindset) that America does not need a definition of vile, evil, and treacherous. The problem is that without knowing what is right and what is wrong you allow for anarchy. History has PROVEN this does not work and never can.

The people who spend their time and hard work EARNING an Eagle Scout medal would definitely - and should - be angered by your statement slandering the amount of hard work they spent to achieve this honor. Again, your emotional opinions of the situation are very evident and are only opinions - not truth or fact.

An ad hominem statement towards the BSA is also a nullification of your position. Especially wen you use the superlative "most" without stating any factual evidence. Here IS something anecdotal, I hear more about the church and priests than I do the BSA in this context. But I do not know which is "most."

And, BTW, calling the BSA perverted and distorted is an interesting thing for you to do. Isn't this calling sodomy (that they are covering) perverted and distorted? This is something you said I was doing without anything to back it up. Note that these terms are, even in your own post, something the human mind automatically associates with sodomy?

You have come full circle in your own post. And, please note, I am not judging you or your character. I am simply using your own ideas to show some problems in the nature of how you have come to your conclusions.

You say this instructable has been made with a person who has a spine. i will not argue that the person has exercised their right to state what they believe. I WILL say that by removing the patriotic reference to the flag of the US, and replacing it with his own PC agenda is a sad, non-patriotic defacement of the medal; goes exactly AGAINST what the awarding/standards of the medal represetn; and shows a great misunderstanding that a PC agenda is another way people are moved to eliminate the freedoms we Americans are born with.
Pretty big talk from a guy with a sheet in his closet. And I don't need to judge anything about you. This overblown post tells us everything we need to know about you and then some. Actually, it is WAY too much information.
Aww cute. Rather than making a logical point, You are calling a guy a Klan member for disagreeing with you. Good job!! You sure pointed out to everyone here who the hateful person is.
How DARE I point this out. You're all such boy scouts
Aww, I was hoping you would see what I did there, but it seems that it was a bit too subtle of a comment for you. Next time I will use small words and add a picture to help you comprehend the sentence.
Yet another chance to play with your crayons!
If that's what is easiest for you, no problem.
Whatever you do, don't quit your day job!
The BSA does not have an agenda concerning homosexuals, the BSA does not actively seek to find out some ones sexuality.

http://www.scouting.org/media/PressReleases/2012/20120607.aspx

I also fail to see how I am forcing any one to do anything. I have not said that you must do this or that. You assume that I am forcing my opion on you, I do not nor do I force it on the BSA I choose to be an active force for the current policys change.

I am also not the first to create a separate group. Scouting for All is a group seeking to open the BSA to all people.

I think it would be fruitful for you to read the Majority opinion written by Chief Justice William Rehnqust for Boy Scouts of America v. Dale. Specifically the last line about how any small group of thinkers has protection from the majority group. Even if members of the smaller group thinks differently then said group.

My opinions are based on my beliefs and the life I choose to lead. I choose to lead a life filled with compassion, I see no reason that some one who is gay should be excluded from the BSA.

Lastly the same protection that grants the BSA the right ro remove homosexuals is the same right granted to any one who wish to state an idea, the medium is irrelevant free speech is free even if not spoken so as I said before the greatest demonstration of freedom is to burn the flag or in the case remove it and replace it with rainbows.

As a final side note you are pointing out that some one is using "ad hominem" I would like to point out that "no one who knows the actual history of our country - and actually KNOWS the freedoms they enjoy would do such a thing." is a textbook case of a glittering generality.
Would you feel the same way about their passive policies if the BSA would not allow black scout leaders? or Jewish leaders? Or woman leaders? I don't dispute the legality of their policy, just the morality behind it.
Because race is genetic - then the BSA WOULD be guilty of discrimination based on senseless bigotry if they banned someone based on race/gender). No one can change their race, but mental decisions such as sodomy are changeable.

Since sodomy is proven to NOT be genetic (but a mental choice), not allowing sodomites as leaders is NOT discrimination any more than it would be discrimination not to allow a known pedophile, drug pusher, or other non-genetically inherent choice-driven individual to be a leader.

The very organization (APA) that first stated (and the media jumped on and repeated over and over and over until their propaganda was actually considered as possible) sodomy is genetic retracted the statement b/c genetics proved them wrong. The APA confessed when they made the statement, no science was involved, but it was a response to pc pressure.

Genetics at the time the statement was released was not advanced enough to even tell what made up human eye color, let alone something as complex as social interactions (which are not genetic anyway).

I also find it insulting (and so do my friends in minority groups) that sodomites would try to use the "race card" to equate personal CHOICES to the actual suffering some people have legitimately endured b/c of race.

As one of my friends said, "I can't change my race, but those people can decide not to take the actions they do. It cheapens me and my family by 'lowering us to only being the equivalent of a decision.'"

bobkrispen (author)  lbrewer421 year ago
You are confusing some things. Sodomy is an act. One who engages in that act could be considered a sodomite, if you wanted to label someone.

Not all homosexual people engage in sex in that manner. Further, there are plenty of people who are absolutely not homosexual that engage in the act, because they find it enjoyable.

If you are going to say that "X is proven" - please provide a source.

I can't help but agree that "sodomy is proven to NOT be genetic" is kind of accurate, just due to your complete misuse of words. However, what I _think_ you mean to allege is that "there's no proof that homosexuality is a genetic trait". However, science still cannot track all genetic traits.

So, your comment regarding "not allowing sodomites as leaders" is also off base. I'm sure there are plenty of heterosexual sodomites out there that are leaders.

What IS certain is that there are countless instances of homosexual people recounting that they have "known" they were gay as long as they can remember. They didn't wake up and decide "Hey, I think I'll be gay". There is something innate about the vast majority of homosexuals that makes them that way. I'm not contending any absolutes, but I am stating that, in any single gay person I've met and had conversation about it with, they've known they were gay for the longest time. They never decided to be that way.

And the BSA _IS_ guilty of discrimination. They are deciding that people who are gay or atheist are not welcome in their organization. It is absolutely discrimination. As a private organization, they are entitled to do that. Don't paint their actions as anything that isn't discriminatory.

tl;dr Not all homosexuals engage in sodomy. Sodomy occurs in heterosexual relationships. Your labeling all gay people as "sodomites" is inaccurate and ignorant.
I am sorry for any confusion the term sodomite, in my posts has caused. You are correct in technical terms of modern day usage and I was totally ignorant of the contemporary usage of the term. I thank you for pointing this out to me. I appreciate the clarification of my error.

The etymology of the term "sodomy" is rooted in the ancient city of Sodom and Gomorrah. The original wording in the Hebrew language, concerning the story of the city, is in terms of homosexuality. I have always used "sodomy" b/c I was thinking it a more polite term. You rarely see the term compared to "gay" or homosexual" and I was hoping to ease some oft he subconscious attachments we all attach to words.

As to stating where my facts are from, I am not sure where this has not been plain. Anyone can reference the APA's information and do their own homework. I even mentioned Dr. Spitner's name in my posts. Too many people, it seems, nowadays rely on blogs and letting others tell them what to think rather than just going to the source.

You are also right in that science cannot track all genetic traits. When the original APA falsehood that homosexuality is genetic was first stated, genetics had not unravelled even simple things like eye color. Their statementm when released, was an obvious pc falsehood to anyone who knew anything about science. It just took genetics a number of years to reach a level where genetics found no fact in their statement (the very nature of genetics is not psychology - its biology), and they had to admit their real derivation of the statement..

The very fact the APA retracted the statement admitting it was false and pc motivated -(admitting there was no science behind it). Should be enough for anyone to start wondering why this falsehood has been spread as fact. The author said the statement is nonsense!

We go beyond fact, and into the realm of agenda, when we (note my inclusion of self with this statement please) start looking for ways to try to make the author-admitted-falsehood a reality. A major thing hindering people from just dealing with cold, hard facts is no that we do not like to be told something qw have decided is fact (no matter the source) has to be reconsidered. And when the facts do not line up with what we want to be true, we end up putting emotion and agenda in front of reason.

As to pont of discrimination, since most of the time when this topic comes up, people are using a definition of the term akin to the one from the online dictionary that my Mac uses on its Dashboard:
"Discrimination:
The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex;"
this was the context and particular definition I was using.
The term "unjust" being the key to why the term discrimination, when using this definition, is not applicable to personal choices.

In the sense that the word Discrimination also has the meaning of:
"The ability to discern what is of high quality; good judgment or taste." You are correct. Every organization has the rights, under the Constitution, to take part in this type of discrimination as defined by their own ideals.

And as long as this is now a book. Sure, the people I know who are homosexuals also say they have always been that way. They have grown up hearing this as an explanation for 30 years! So of course their mind has accepted this as truth and they use it to view the mindset their own mindset.
The APA has admitted they actually are not 100 percent sure what causes it but believe it is due to many complex facts having to deal with a child's upbringing and the influences they encounter in their formative years and the circumstances the people are raised in.

Until the false "genetic" statement was picked up by the media and pushed so hard, the APA held the same position. They have simply come full circle since the science did not show what they said it would!

Also, please note, i have been encouraging anyone who answer to do the research themselves. Hours of work is just the beginning.

bobkrispen (author)  lbrewer421 year ago
> unjust or prejudicial

Not unjust AND prejudicial.

It's a prejudicial judgment made against people simply based on their sexual identity. Is it prejudicial? Yes. Is it unjust? I say no, you say yes. But it meets one of the definitions. Therefore, it qualifies.

It's discrimination. Thanks for proving my point.
Faulty assumptions based on admittedly (APA) false statements come nowhere near fact.

Just because a person desires to see a situation as discrimination cannot erase the scientific and psychological facts that it has nothing to do with discrimination.

Ignoring fact is the only way to conclude this subject is one of prejudice.
YakAttack1 year ago
Very bad form to have this as a "featured" article, Instructables staff.

Will the Instructables staff now feature other politically or religiously sensitive Ibles?

A Pandora's box has been opened and I seriously doubt they will feature any Ible that is against homosexuality.

Good workmanship as an Ible yes, but bad form for featuring it.
Next weeks feature: How to hack your Countries flag into a Nazi flag ?
bobkrispen (author)  dalmond11 year ago
Wow, I'm actually kind of amazed it took this long to hit Godwin's Law.
chipper351 year ago
A Scout it: Trustworthy, loyal.....and reverent (among other things, many of which you may express daily, and if if you do, good for you). However, considering your willingness to ignore, demean, defile and contradict the Scout traditions and core elements by hacking one of the organization's most revered symbols, we pretty much know now where you stand on those three traits.

At some time in your life, you took an oath to keep yourself, "...morally straight." There's no need to re-hash the Bible's core teachings on how God views homosexuality....in relation to things God hates.

I love instructables and I sincerely don't come here to preach, but obviously, you do by your actions. So I just thought I'd share my comment about your little slice of self-expression.
Another thing a Scout is: "brave." The actual recitation is: A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, cheerful, considerate (or kind), courageous (or brave), clean, and reverent."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_Law

Trustworthy: I trust them to act and set a good example for others to follow. Being a bigot is not a good example.

Loyal: There are many things to which someone can be loyal.

Helpful: Help others express themselves, help others have a voice.

Friendly: There is nothing friendly about kicking someone out for being gay.

Courteous: there is nothing courteous about kicking someone out for being gay.

Cheerful: Even if you cheerfully cast out gays, you're still kicking out gays.

Considerate / Kind: It is fundamentally inconsiderate to rob someone of the opportunity to grow and develop strong character by saying they lack the "stuff" to do so because they're gay.

Courageous / Brave: It is the definition of bravery to display this Instructable... he is bravely standing up to the Machine of the BSA, against intolerance, hate, and bigotry. Well done, sir.

Clean: No point here.

Reverent: It is irreverent to publicly make a mockery of someone simply because you disagree with their personal choices. It is irreverent to capitulate to a select few ideals presented in the Bible only when it serves your purpose, and to ignore other ideals which may oppose your purpose. It is irreverent to say God Hates Gays. It is irreverent to practice cognitive dissonance, and to assign your own "truth" based on your biases to the words and lessons presented in a book which is supposed to provide a good moral foundation of love and compassion for all.

Let's count the ways you have failed to meet your Oath.
That medal looked pretty polished, so clean would apply, also the new ribbon was shiny. This discussion is really really emotionally charged, this protest is very effective.
kccd davisbr91 year ago
But this is still a revered symbol. I may or may not agree with you on your points of the scout law, but this medal is not the way to go about expressing it. This is the highest achievement one can earn in scouting, the pinnacle of the experience, and now it is becoming politically charged. I do not support this because I would rather eagle scouts battle for what they believe is right, while showing respect for what the organization has succeeded in and for what they, and others, have worked to accomplish.

It is true that the medal is just a symbol and that no Eagle Scout would really be that sad if they lost theirs (because losing a medal does not erase your character nor your accomplishments), but to see it re-purposed to achieve an end is a pain to me. There are other ways of showing your dissatisfaction.

Eagle Scout 2010
curtjen kccd1 year ago
Thank you. You've summed up my exact feelings about this Instructable. As I've read through many of the comments here, if the words were audible, it would be a loud mesh of yelling. Both sides of the argument have good points and not so good of points. It pains me as well to see this rehashed in such a way. But, in this person's defense, if I were to rebel against the BSA in one of the most severe ways I could possibly think of, this would be it.
You have GOT to be kidding.
What are you arguing? My opinion on the instructable and changing the medal? Or my opinion on the BSA policy? Because I did not include my opinion on the BSA policy.
Your attempt at the moral high ground defending an institution who has decided to institutionalize discrimination, and enable pedophiles. How's that for a great scouting tradition? Actually, your defense is going to be moot because after all the lawsuits filed by kids who were molested by BSA personnel they will probably fold. They don't have the deep pockets the catholic church has.
kccd kccd1 year ago
Speaking to girlcousin, not curtjen. apologies.
maka davisbr91 year ago
THANK. YOU.

My best friend is an Eagle Scout and gay. I can't wait to show him both this I'ble and your comment.
My God doesn't hate anything.
d_j_h sanmarr1 year ago
My God does. Idolatry, where you make up your own god, is one of them.
sanmarr d_j_h1 year ago
I hope that works out for you.
Did it ever occur to you that protesting a policy that cheapens the scouts is acting in the highest traditions?
lbrewer421 year ago
First: People here have it wrong. The term homophobia is a misnomer used by the media. The fact of the matter is there is no such thing. Put in proper context there is no fear. Tyring to be as non-confrontational as possible, and keeping with the facts - the actual feeling people get is one of a gut-wrenching feeling of disgust. A more correct term could be coined as "homonautic" (using the Gr prefix and Latin suffix as was used to coin the homophobia misnomer - "nautic being the word they used to describe the feeling of sea-sickness)

Second: The removal of the American flag colors in this award shows the value system of a person who would deface such a medal. They strip the patriotic colors of the American flag off of something that should be revered as a cherished symbol of America and replace it with their own desire for a perverted mindset (please note this word is used in DICTIONARY CONTEXT - NOT slander)

Third: Genetics proves sodomy is a mindset. The concept of sodomy being genetic and "natural" was first touted by the American Psychological Association in the 80's by a man named Dr. Spitner. The media - always ready to feed the liberal agenda - picked up this idea and have been trying to cram it down our throats ever since.
Even in the 80's it was obvious this sodomy-in-the-genes idea was a lie since 1980's genetic knowledge could not even tell us what genes made a person have blue eyes instead of brown! Anyone with common sense could see this was false information with a political agenda.

When genetics finally advanced enough to prove the ASA's statement wrong, the APA backpedalled; and the very same Dr. Spitner confessed the original statement had NOTHING to do with SCIENCE; but was made as a result of pressure from the groups pushing their agenda.

The APA now categorizes sodomy as having nothing to do with genetic code. It is a choice. They classify sodomy as a mental derangement.

I know the above is not easy for someone who has made the sodomite choice to accept (especially after being lied to all these years) that "normality" and sodomy are diametrically opposed words. But the facts are the facts. Anything that harms us tends to be addictive to some people (drinking, drugs, smoking, etc). This is the case with the choice of sodomy.

The BSA's medal is patriotically designed. If someone wants to push their own agenda over patriotism, it is obvious that they are unworthy of the reward to begin with. The BSA is PRIVATE. The very thought of the BSA having to kowtow to a perverted agenda (again - used in context - NOT slander), is as anti-American as a person can get (whether they actually understand this or not). I doubt the defacer of this award ever thought of the whole picture and was not trying to be anti-American.

Why don't sodomites realize that when the government can FORCE a private organization to fit into government-dictated standards, then there is then no stopping of the government telling everyone what they WILL do at all times?

American cherish American freedoms above all else. Let the private people live free as Americans and please don't spit on the graves of our forefathers.

The big picture is that this medal's defacement shows a weak understanding of the freedoms you are taking advantage of by even being able to voice your own opinion. You are helping all of us to LOSE those freedoms by pushing your agenda against a private organization.

Wow. I'm not a Boy Scout so can't comment on that part of your statement but as someone who has some basic scientific and medical literacy, I just had to comment on the others!

WHICH APA ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? The American Phobic Association? Homosexuality has not been considered a mental disorder since 1980 by the APA, the AMA, the AAP, the AAFP, any well-respected medical association actually. And actually they don't say whether it's a choice or genetic. Anywhere. Here's their statement! Read it! I think you may not have read it since the sixties or earlier!

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

Okay now to things in order:

First: The definition of phobia is "an extreme or irrational fear of OR AVERSION TO something. It's usually used more in the fear context, but can be used in the aversion context as well. I think your "gut-wrenching disgust" could conceivably be classified as an aversion.

Third: "Genetics proves sodomy is a mindset". What does that even MEAN? Are you saying that homosexual sex (between men, I guess women don't count, or do lesbians commit sodomy?) is a voluntary behavior? But then you say "mindset" so maybe you're talking about... I don't know what you're talking about? Sexual attraction is not a voluntary behavior. You can't choose to be attracted to someone you're not and vice versa. You could say that gay people just shouldn't ever have sex, but I doubt anyone will listen. (And if you're going to bring up the Old Testament thing, please tell me you at least keep Kosher.)

How is homosexuality, aka sodomy (I guess?) harmful? Who is it harming? Most gay people are quite happy and well-functioning and they have relationships and do other things that heterosexual people do like have jobs and go on vacations and things. I mean, you compare it to drinking and drugs, which actually can cause physical, can-see-it-on-an-X-ray harm. Homosexual sex isn't causing physical harm, any more than heterosexual sex is. Also, I don't think it's more "Addictive" than heterosexual sex. You have sex, it feels good, you might have more of it, especially if you're in a long-term relationship.

"Sodomy" and "normality" are not opposed. "Normality" and "abnormality" are opposed. Is "sodomy" abnormal? Depends who you ask. As I mentioned above, a lot of organizations full of very smart people who know lots of things about science and stuff think it's not.

No, we have not found a "homosexual gene". It's not that easy to find genes for lots of things. Is it genetic? Is it behavioral? Like almost anything else that is not a direct physical attribute, it's probably both. (The APA thinks so, too!)

Also, just have to say, studies on people as overwhelmingly homophobic (homonautic? Really? It sounds like a gay aircraft carrier or something) as you are have shown that a surprising amount experience physical sexual arousal when faced with homosexual images. Not saying you're gay. Not saying it would happen to you. But when you toss around things like "sodomite" and "kowtow to a perverted agenda", it really makes you seem like Roy Cohn.
eesh, this is not the right place for this discussion.
tl:dr
journey461 year ago
Great instructable and a creative way to protest an issue you feel strongly about.

I am an Eagle Scout (1973) and Member of the OA.

My medal is only a symbol of achievement. It was never a national or holy artifact to me.
My Scouting experience taught me to respect diversity and to promote inclusion. Scouting taught me to respect and defend all life and the rights of others.

I respect and defend your right First Amendment right to free speech.
Life affirming change is not easy. It comes through disagreement, discussion and debate. It rarely comes through exclusion and fanaticism.

I found nothing fanatical about your instructable.


kccd journey461 year ago
I am also an Eagle Scout (2010) and member of the OA (2005).

I recognize that the medal is a symbol of achievement, but it also represents all of the work and toil put each scout put into the program and a content of character of those who have earned it. Alone, it means nothing, it was never meant to, it simply represents. However, the eagle award was never meant to be used as a means to an end.

I can deal with people wanting to send the medal back, fine. That is their choice to cut off their ties with the program, and I can respect their decision and their rationale. But my issue comes when the medal is politicized and re-purposed to something other than its original intention. It is that decision that loses my respect.

I recognize the author's right to do this, but I hope he recognizes my right to utterly oppose him.

Yours in scouting,

From a concerned Eagle Scout
Respectfully I disagree in part that the issue itself became politicized when the exclusions were made.
He disagrees with the decision to exclude and has chosen to modify his symbol in protest, while maintaining his relationship with the organization intending to lobby for change from within.
Nonviolent protest that harms noone but sparks discussion, as is proven in the comments.
I think he has proven the value of this 'ible, in that sort of modification as protest is very effective... and he could always replace the original ribbon if he wanted.
I learned a lot today, thank you.
Agreed.
Rovden1 year ago
As an Eagle Scout I have to say this is a most interesting hack.

I find myself rather watching the motions of the Eagles as this controversy has shown up, I do not agree with BSA on their opinions but am very traditional and to me the award shows that I do have power to make changes. But each person sees their own.

Now on changing your award, great, because as I feel it is YOUR award, you did the work to it, and it will represent something a little different to you than it will to me while at the same time is a unifying symbol for many.

Onto the actual work. I like the work done. In a way it helps me know if I ever need to do repair work too on mine.

Thank you for this 'ble
snrubbj1 year ago
I see an official box and some metal parts. I don't see an original BSA EAGLE SCOUT AWARD. And you haven't indicated you ever earned one. My pride and compassion for this level of achievement haven't diminished in the 50 years since so many many people helped me earn it and understand the wisdom surrounding this Grand Symbol of youth accomplishment. You merely show the prevailing ignorance and disrespect of so many in our GRAND UNION. Speech and Respect for an individual must be earned and maintained, there's nothing free about them.

Eagle Scout 1963
God and Country 1964
OA 1967
bobkrispen (author)  snrubbj1 year ago
>you haven't indicated you ever earned one

Almost two hours ago I talked about whether I was an Eagle or not. Let me make this absolutely 100% abundantly clear in the hopes that SOMEONE will actually read the comments instead of assuming whatever they'd like.

I earned my Eagle Scout award.

A medal in my possession does not make me an Eagle. A medal lost, stolen or sold does not make me give up being an Eagle.

Once an Eagle, always an Eagle.

It's the mettle, not the medal, that defines the Eagle. You may disagree with my motivation and method in my manner of protest, but that does not diminish my accomplishment of earning Eagle.

Congratulations to you earning your Eagle. I also earned a youth religious award as well. I'm also active in the order of the arrow. Hopefully you've been able to give back to scouting for what you received from it. I'm doing that which I can to give back at present.
@bobkrispen: I do respect that you feel so strongly about this issue that you want to raise awareness, stand up for your point of view, and make a difference. It is indicative to me that you stand by your principles on this issue. The fact that we can openly disagree on an issue, but at the end of the day be united as Americans is one if the biggest reasons this country is great.

The reason there are so many Boy Scouts here who are obviously upset is because what you did is quite obviously against multiple principles of the Scout Law. Particularly that you chose an irreverent method to display your point of view. Diminishing the Eagle Scout Award is simply disrespectful to the organization and especially to others who have achieved it.

I don't doubt that you have achieved and earned what you say you did, but resting on your laurels doesn't earn you the right disrespect the Eagle rank. Rather, it should have taught you to find a route to fight your cause in a way that is respectful to other Eagle Scouts and the organization I can tell from your comment you still believe in. It's time to prove your mettle, take this down, and find a better way to make your stand. As brethern in Eagle and order of the Arrow, I believe you have it in you to achieve this. Good luck!
"what you did is quite obviously against multiple principles of the Scout Law." - which law is that? I hope you are not talking about he exclusion of people based on their beliefs or orientation.

"Diminishing the Eagle Scout Award is simply disrespectful to the organization and especially to others who have achieved it." - I would say that the exclusion of an entire class of human beings based on their sexual orientation diminishes the spirit of the scouts far more than replacing a piece of fabric on a medal he earned.
There are other posts on here that you can reply to if you want a political debate, but my words are apolitical and I would appreciate it if you would not try to interject a political meaning into my words. All I simply said was that the ends do not justify the means, and turning a highly revered medal of honor into a political tool is a big smack in the face to Eagle Scouts of all generations. There are a million and one ways to make a well made point with class, but this is a way that alienates and insults other Eagle Scouts. It's a rather counter productive and divisive technique giving that his cause is to have Boys Scouts be more inclusive.

While I am not holding everyone to have respect for the organization, regardless of all the good they have done for 100+ years, I am hoping that we can all agree to honor and respect the individual Eagle Scouts who have selflessly helped their community and country for years before and after earning their Eagle Rank. Many Scouts have voiced here that they are upset with this, even ones who agree with the cause. That is why I am kindly asking Bob to remove his instructable and post a positive idea instead.
bobkrispen (author)  vigothecarpathian1 year ago
I will not be removing the 'ible.

I have taken this property which I own, this award which I have earned, and modified it. Modification of existing property is what ibles are about.

Is this political? In some ways, yes. Did I learn something in making a modification of this Eagle medal? Yes! I never realized the bar on the motto top was split - that's how they put em together!

This 'ible is valid. It's necessary, be it social commentary or actual 'ible.

It's a shame if people are offended, but, well, what's wrong with being offended? http://goo.gl/p2ulO . I have brought to light, in a way that awakens some, something with which I disagree.
Thank you for you input. I have to say I am a bit surprised by how your answer does not deliver any pride or purpose to your cause. Let's be honest here, to back pedal and say that this was equally posted for educational purposes is a cop out answer. It is a political statement as you made clear in your purpose statement. It was your purpose; you should fully stand by it. You posted first line of your instructable that your purpose is to push for a change in policies. No more no less. You titled it as how to hack your Eagle, not how to repair it with a new ribbon. I hate to get nitpicky, but your intentions were made clear right away. Let's not dilute your point, beat around the bush, or try to apply a false justification for this. If you are here to make a statement, stand by it. (and I am saying that in a positive light) :-)

Offended? I think you are reading me wrong. That is not the issue. I frankly don't care if people are offended. I offended people with one of my instructables by simply hacking an item that is older and not always readily available. People get offended all the time, and over anything and everything. To even go further, I don't even get too upset if people make political statements here, even ones seen as offensive by most everyone. No, offensive is not the problem. The rub that gets me is that you are an Eagle Scout and a respected leader in your community. What I do care about is that you were intentionally offensive to other Eagles. That your deliberate actions were a willing disrespect at Eagle Scouts everywhere. As an Eagle Scout, a leader, and a parent of Boy Scouts, you were completely aware of the rude gesture you made. I never said you do not have the right to do this, I am saying that you are not living up to the standards of an Eagle doing this. I'm talking to you openly and honestly as Eagle to Eagle, not Instructable member to Instructable member.

I am challenging you as a fellow Eagle because I know you can be better than this. I know you can stand up for what you believe in without bringing down your brethren Scouts. I have not attempted to flag your instructable as offensive, brought this issue elsewhere, called the BSA, or voiced lodged any complaint, even if others have suggested and done so. My concern is staying in these comments. I did this because I respect you as an Eagle and I know that you are capable of creating positive ideas to communicate your beliefs without being degrading to your fellow scouts. Leave the gutter tactics for the Michael Moores and Rush Limbaughs of the world. Keep Scouts Classy and be a positive example. Let's keep our actions in a light that we can also call ourselves model Eagles and know we are still proudly living up to our oaths and the Scout Law.

Yours in Scouting
- V
Vigo seems to value his Eagle pin over the Constitution (freedom of expression). Just to add a voice, please do not take down your post. Scouts like us and other interested parties need to talk this issue through,
Bob is free to do express himself, and I make it clear I want him to, but as a fellow Eagle Scout I would think he would be doing it with courtesy, kindness and reverence.

My suggestion to take it down is out having respect for fellow Boy Scouts. He can come up with a better way to make his point and be heard. He has achieved Eagle, he can achieve a way to sound his voice in a respectful manner.

Cheers!
Vigo
I'm thinkun maybe a rainbow inspired BBQ or sumthin?
(removed by author or community request)
??? That is a messed up analogy. I don't even know how this compares to a massacre.

You are saying I shouldn't be upset by this because it doesn't dimish my hard work, just as the Mai Lai Massacre didn't dimish the rest of the military. Um....I'm sure the military service men and women were are very reasonably upset by the Mai Lai massacre, and rightfully called out the horrendous acts performed by the company that did that. To suggest that the military was not dimished by such an act is simply preposterous. That was a low point for them all on a whole. Standing up for against such negative acts and challenging each other to be better people is critical for both military and boy scouts.
OK, bad analogy then.
Haha, I've come up with worse analogies before. No worries!
YakAttack1 year ago
Very bad form to have this as a "featured" article, Instructables staff.

Will the Instructables staff now feature other politically or religiously sensitive Ibles?

A Pandora's box has been opened and I seriously doubt they will feature any Ible that is against homosexuality.

Good workmanship as an Ible yes, but bad form for featuring it.
In regards to instructables against homosexuality, this instructable is about pride, not hate. You can feel free to create one about how proud you are for being straight. I would expect anything demonstrating hatred for another group to be properly moderated out of existence.

There is a clear line between finding something offensive and being the object of ridicule. People seem to be misunderstanding the difference a lot lately.
Pfarmkid1 year ago
It is so sad as a current star scout in the BSA to see this what is this world coming too?
Congrats on your progress, Scout!
Thank you

Are you/ ever been a scout if so what rank?
Life Scout who aged out before Eagle because 1) politics with the town government over the history trail I was trying to revive as my project and 2) discovered girls.
Ahh girls can mess you over on the trail to eagle - no offense girls - I am going to rebuild the trough and work on a local spring where jack Daniels almost put his still the town band together and had a church built on the land though there's a lot of moonshine in these hills of tn
WOO HOO! I would love to see your project. I have family who are Jack Daniel Squires, so your project would be of special interest to us. Plus, I'm here in Middle TN so I have an actual chance to see it.
A better place?
If that's what you can manage to call it in a twisted mind
In what way is a world where people mind their own business and let people live their lives in peace the work of a twisted mind?
jparmenter1 year ago
Great idea! This is a very clever upcycle and clearly deserves a place on Instructables. You've certainly added a lot of personal value and stylistic appeal to this otherwise visually drab, inanimate object.

I'm not sure why this post has so many negative trolling comments, but anyone who thinks you shouldn't feel ownership over your own life and possessions enough to change any of your personal property in any way you see fit, seems to be missing the point of this site. Personally, I'd guess they're just jealous of your creativity.

Way to express yourself through craftsmanship!
jparmenter, This medal is more than a "drab, inanimate object." It represents the Eagle Rank, the highest achievement in the scouting program. There is more than 100 years of history and tradition behind it. While there are some Eagle Scouts who will praise this, it is not something that many other Eagle Scouts can simply accept and overlook, please be sensitive of that.

There is some legitimate conversation here about the attitudes toward this instructable, please do not simply try to classify it as trolling, that is erroneous.

Yours in scouting,

From a concerned Eagle Scout
Oops! I think you took my quote out of context when you left off the word "visually" in your quote.

My comment is about the visual nature of the instructable's subject, not about what it represents (philosophically, metaphorically, or symbolically) to anyone.

I would argue that there's very little conversation going on about the instructable itself, although there sure is a lot of nonsense about people's feelings. The essence of trolling is about distracting or side-tracking a discussion, with the purpose of causing discord, which is what happened when people started commenting about politics and the 'larger implications' they feel the instructable represents.

To put it another way, I think you'd agree that a person who hypothetically turned to the comments section on an instructable like thiis one, to launch a discussion about the relative benefits or veganism and not eating meat, has missed the point of Instructables in general, and inappropriately inscribed his personal baggage into otherwise objective subject matter.

Instructables is a platform to share ideas on how to turn things into other, cooler things, not a pulpit to preach about personal beliefs. If you look at the Instructable itself, it's very straightforward and effective. I think it's pretty hard to argue against my statement that the author "added a lot of personal value and stylistic appeal to this otherwise visually drab, inanimate object" - unless you're in fact saying that R/W/B stripes are less-drab than a rainbow, which I think would be a valid opinion , although not one I'd agree with.

Please keep personal politics out of Instructables!

From a concerned Instructables Reader
jparmenter; we all see your point here and you do a fine job of making it but I am going drop my 2 cents in here:

1. 1st and foremost; it is pretty obvious to us all that this instructable was intended to be controversial (even if the author truly wishes this were not a topic of controversy) and that it was intended to generate some discussion. So while you may be correct that some of the discussion here has deviated from "the point of this site;" I feel that you are missing the point of this ible if you are suggesting that people shouldn't comment on the politically charged nature of this ible. To put it another way, this discussion was (whether you accept it or not) launched by the author; more so than by the posters you have been pointing the proverbial finger at.
2. If you truly think people's feelings are nonsense, then why do you even bother commenting at all? To put it another way, If a person thinks people's feelings are nonsense; does that person actually have any worthwhile thoughts of his own?
3. There are a 101 ways this ible could have been more effective and less controversial. Just as an example the Author could have shown how to renew old medals with fresh ribbons of the same design that give the medal a crisp look and this could have included tips on refurbishing the medal itself; as a side-note to this proposed ible the author could have even explained how to jazz up old (less significant) medals with alternative ribbon material to create some kind of "Super Flair" for a really motivated TGIF server (this jazzing up of less significant medals could have been less controversial and since GIs sometimes trade medals from other countries...I could see this as alot cooler if it were done with a "sharpshooter or expert pistol" logo, humanitarian, etc... Also the Author could have taken any various and sundry of charms, baubles, or pendants and affixed them onto a variety of different ribbons...
I would say there's a lot of discussion about the reasoning specifically from replacing the traditional red, white, and blue stripes from the medal with the colors of the gay pride flag with the intention of creating a political stance about an issue with a BSA policy.

The author instilled this instructable with politics, not the posters. This is much different than building a BBQ barrel, as this is politicizing an award that was supposed to be indifferent. This is not an instructable simply with the intention of replacing a ribbon, but one with a political agenda:

"Some people might want to do this to show support for a change in policies within the Boy Scouts of America." - author of this instructable

There is no political agenda in creating BBQ barrel, because a BBQ barrel does not represent the hard work that young men have put into their development of character and their communities.

Since the action that the author is posting about is a controversial issue, it should have been obvious that there would be backlash not just over the issue at hand, but changing a symbol that has remained constant for over 100 years.

I do believe you miss the point and do not entirely comprehend what this award represents to those who have earned it and know what it stands for. It is not something that should be changed.

Each color, the red, the white, and the blue, have a specific meaning.

The white: To live with honor

The blue: To inspire your loyalty

The red: To remind you of courage

To replace them on the badge rids it of its meaning and defaces the award.

In short: Your analogy does not fit and the author posted a politically charged instructable, just as if I posted one on how to burn a flag or change an army medal to whatever I wanted. Those objects mean something to people, just as this one does.

Thank you for responding and being respectful. It speaks volumes of your character.

A concerned Eagle Scout
YakAttack1 year ago
Very bad form to have this as a "featured" article, Instructables staff.

Will the Instructables staff now feature other politically or religiously sensitive Ibles?

A Pandora's box has been opened and I seriously doubt they will feature any Ible that is against homosexuality.

Good workmanship as an Ible yes, but bad form for featuring it.
I'm sure that this isn't what the creator of this 'ible is trying to say. But, it has always amazed me how someone will join an organization, club, political party or what-ever, or make some sort of commitment (say, marriage) knowing full well what is expected and what it is about. THEN they say, "I disagree with your policies, and so does a bunch of people I know. Now, change!" I just seems ridiculous to me.
If you disagree with a group, don't join them. If your views change over time, diverging from the views and policies of a group you all ready belong to, then it's time for you to leave them.
The idea that everything can be fair to everyone is just delusional. It's why family and patriotism have gone the way of the dinosaurs. It's why commitment now means "until something I perceive as better or more convenient comes along.".
Thank you for sharing this! I think this is a excellent way to show your pride. :)
tpagels1 year ago
As an Eagle Scout I must say that anyone who calls the BSA bigots or intolerant has absolutely no clue what they stand for are are just bigots themselves! If you think the BSA is a bunch of racist homophobes then you are again 100% wrong!

That red white and blue ribbon represents the American Flag and to deface that is about the same as burning the flag. I would never stand for that and no true American would either! Absolutely disgusting that such a hate filled instructable has been allowed!

The worst racists are the ones who go around looking for them! You will always find hate if you are looking for it! Try looking for happiness! The end of that hunt is a much better one!
100% agree with you..

The Eagle Scout award is prized and only 3-5% of Boy Scouts earn the rank of Eagle. I am currently almost complete with my Eagle. All that is being done is defacing and hatefulness towards the BSA.

You, my friend, should not have made this Instructable, because it is disrespectful to America and disrespectful to every Boy Scout that has earned the rank of Eagle..
@ freemacin: Congrat ahead of time on your soon-to-be-earned Eagle. I'm glad it will be going to a person who respects what it is and what it stands for.
Intolerance?
For someone with an eagle scout father, you know nothing of the program.
I believe it is the exclusionary policy of the boy scouts that is disrespectful.
I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I? Can't top that air tight comeback but I'll try. My dad was a boy scout, and an eagle scout, and he sure didn't agree with the no gay kids policy. I'm wearing his 1941 Eagle Scout ring. He loved the organization but didn't agree with them on excluding gay kids--or gay leaders. Why? Because he spent years thinking he disliked gay people. When a friend of his came out of the closet in the 80's he completely changed his mind. Realized he had been wrong for many years, and hated to see that mind set carried into the next generation. Organizations should make you better, not smaller.
Being that burning the flag is not defacement, I fail to see your point.

Nor did anyone deface the ribbon. Seems perfectly intact to me.

"The worst racists are the ones who go around looking for them!"

By what possible stretch of the definition is this even possibly true?
Surprise, the usual argument that "if you call someone something bad then obviously you are the bad one." Blind allegiance to an organization that has, on the record, preached intolerance and been caught covering up molestations. But you're right, anyone that mentions that is the intolerant molestor.

The instructable is not filled with hate, and in fact nowhere does the author even make a statement beyond "some people may want to do this in protest." Your comment, which calls it "absolutely disgusting," is what is filled with hate.

You then go along to contradict yourself, which is honestly quite humorous.
amen to that. i am neither political or part of teh BSA, but i can ecoe your opinion on how this 'ible is nothing more than a form of racism and a subtle witch hunt. easy it is in others to find fault. easy it is in other beliefs to find fault. more difficult it is to see good, but greater the rewards there are.
Ejunge1 year ago
I am an Eagle Scout. While I would never choose to alter my Eagle award the way the Author did, it's his medal.

Looking back on my Eagle, it is one of the most important things that I ever did as a young man. But maybe the Author feels that taking this stand is Equally important.

The author is most likely not currently involved in the program, so who does it really hurt. No adult would actually wear his Eagle scout award - and they shouldn't, not even to an Eagle Court of Honor- the program is about the youth.

So, here it is... Why does this person find it necessary to "hack" their Eagle? Is it to take a stand? Well, the truth is, that the policy of the BSA is not about LBGT people. The truth is that ALL discussions about sex and sexual orientation are verboten in the BSA program- hetero, homo, all of it. If you a talking about sex in the auspices of a BSA program, then you are doing the BSA program wrong.

So as an Eagle, I agree with the Author that these are frank discussions that need to be had, but cutting up your Eagle Award might not be the best way to start that conversation.

Finally, just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me a bad person, or that I feel that way about you. So save the rhetoric. There are no right or wrong answers here, and I don't want to change your views, and you might not be able to change mine. But what bothers me the most is how uncivilized these comments are.

LBGT people in our community are a real thing, and as Scouters, we need to be aware of it, and deal with it In a way that is consistent with the scout oath and law that values the contributions that these people make to our society. But to the BSA detractors, our policies are set by our National Board, and no one has been forced to join, and never have been. Yes there have been mistakes, but the BSA has been the most progressive body in the country regarding youth protection. Bad things happen everywhere. No organization is free from scandal, scout leaders, coaches, priests all show how a pedophile can abuse a role model situation. But scouts have required two deep leadership since 1996 or so.

In short, look beyond the anger of what you may feel about this subject and start contributing to a real discussion about civility, and how we, as a society, have been caught up in being right, that there is no room for middle ground anymore.

In conclusion, I support the Authors stand, but I don't like his methods. While I don't see the need to take the instructible down, taking an icon, and politicizing it may not have been the most effective way to get your point across.

Yours in scouting
@ejunge

If you follow the authors comments, you will see that he claims to quite active in Scouting and the OA.

Additionally, he claims he has two sons involved in the organization.

Who does it hurt? The boys in his charge

Who does it betray? The parents of the boys who believe that he is instructing their children in the core beliefs of Scouting.

I know this because he told me he would not reveal his identity for fear that his opinions and actions may have repercutions on his boys. Proof that he realizes that the other adults in his troop/council would not approve of this instructible.

bobkrispen (author)  Radicalone1 year ago
You make it sound as if I was telling you things in private I am not telling others. I posted a reply in a public thread to you where I indicated these things. The thread is here:

http://www.instructables.com/community/Defacing-of-a-hard-earned-award-and-instructibles-/

As for hurt and betrayal? Nobody is being hurt, nor betrayed. Let's not forget part of "A Scout is Reverent" shall we? "respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion."

Respects the convictions of others. THAT is what I'm teaching scouts. I am not teaching anything about sexuality, that's not part of the program. I teach respect. While I use examples of "Do you go to Church?" to engage a scout in conversation, I don't ask what church, I don't delve into their beliefs. But I do say "Some people don't go to a church, but might go to a temple or mosque or other house of worship. Some might not have a house of worship, but have their own spiritual belief.... as Scouts, "A Scout is reverent" tells us that we need to respect THAT person and their beliefs, even if we don't believe them."

> Proof that he realizes that the other adults in his
> troop/council would not approve of this instructible.
[sic]

Of course. There are plenty of individuals who DO make sexuality part of the program. Also, those who believe in one religion without respecting any other religion. In the last year, I've heard of dozens upon dozens of scouts that were asked directly if they were gay or atheist. Most incidents at boards of review. This is not a valid question for a BOR nor is it part of the scouting program. (A proper question MIGHT include "Can you describe how scouting has influenced your spiritual beliefs?") I do assume there are people in the council that feel this way. To that end, I am not being 100% public so that my children won't be blacklisted. I don't need the backlash of narrowminded folks who extend their own beliefs AGAINST SCOUT POLICY to affect my children's enjoyment of scouting.
ryanmercer1 year ago
Rock on, love it! As far as the people dissaproving, instructables is for instrucables not for agenda so lets keep it for the instrucable. If you have nothing positive or constructive to add to the instrucable leave it alone.
Well Said! Instructables is for creating and learning, not politics.
Sigh, but sadly, this one is about politics.

That being said. Very good job changing the ribbon!
+1. That old ribbon looked nasty and tatty. These are excellent and valid instructions for changing a ribbon.
Agreed! I thought he did a great job changing the ribbon. Looks professionally done :)
Exactly, people are all bent out of shape "bwaaaaah political agenda bwaaaahhh" or um how about it was a simple ribbon replacement tutorial, or for that matter people could use this for ANY medal type thing and make their own cool ribbon/medal combos from stuff they find on etsy or flea markets or anything. Instructables is for learning how to do nifty stuff. *sigh*
:)
tomasihvon1 year ago
Leaving all bouts of sexuality and religion aside, as an Eagle Scout I find this instructable a complete disgrace. The BSA is an organization that is based on honor and tradition. The Eagle scout is a rank that is attained by upholding the values of the BSA and becoming an example to others within its ranks. One should be highly proud of such an achievement. Why, why, why would anyone want to defile that symbol in anyway? Doing so not only looks unprofessional and is out of uniform, but speaks voulmes about your own character. you have thrown tradition to the wind along with all that the Boy Scouts stand for.
I honestly don't care if you are gay or non-Christian in the Boy Scouts, but show some respect.
Radicalone1 year ago
If you are offended by this post please contact The Boy Scouts of America National Headquarters at:

(972) 580-2000.

Please share this information with anyone within your troop or council who might be willing to take a few minutes to stand up for the core values of the BSA as well as the inalienable rights we have as Americans to charter and belong to whatever groups we choose.

Wazzupdoc1 year ago
After reading the vitriol here, I put a black ribbon on mine.
Man this award is so much more than you think, I know, I'm trying to get it right now. There's so much effort that goes into getting one of these. They are never just handed out freely, guys work their butts off to get this and people recognize the Eagle Scout award. They know what it represents.
janern1 year ago
... That escalated quickly...

Best regards, former boy scout (allways a scout (?)) from Norway, (where i do believe any and every one can join scouts.)
b2p1 year ago
I thought Instructables was all about material things. There are plenty of opinion sites. A discussion of ideals is endless and will only damage this relatively constructive web offering.
It really tears down the credibility of instructables when they choose to make a politically charged act of desecration one of their featured and daily email items.

I can't wait for the instructable to appear in next week's email showing me step by step who to vote for.
Typical jump to extremes, another logical fallacy.

You never see these kinds of comments on instructables about green initiatives. Curious how the bigots operate! As soon as they're confronted with their own intolerance they lash out.
In what way can "green initiatives" possibly be offensive? "Green iniatives" are not acts of disrespect against any person or group.

This instructable is an act of hate against the BSA.
In what possible way is this an act of hate against the BSA?!? First, no where does that view get mentioned. At all. Ever.
Second, in no way is the original medal destroyed.
Third, and most importantly, in order to perform the steps in this Instructable, one must have first secured an Eagle Scout Medal. That this is possible while maintaining a hatred for the BSA is doubtful in the extreme.

If you can't see the parallel with green initiatives, that says a lot, but here is a bit of a clue:
Many people see green initiatives as part of a vast liberal conspiracy centered around what they believe is the hoax of global warming. Therefore, posting a green instructable bolsters this leftist, socialist, communist conspiracy by allowing for the fact that there is any need for green initiatives in the first place.

Oh, and if people can't see that the above is sarcastic, all hope is truly lost.
I love how you act like you have no clue about any anti-BSA intention on this instructable because he doesn't mention it directly, then turn around and criticize me for not being able to connect dots that a "Green Initiative" is political based. Great self-hypocritical argument you got going on there.

but I suppose since you are saying your argument is sarcastic, even you realize it's pretty far from reality. ;)
It is in no way hypocritical. First, the instructable is NOT anti-BSA, it is anti-BSA's newly stated policy. A policy, I might point out, that a NUMBER of ACTUAL eagle scouts oppose.
Nor did I criticize you for not being able to connect the dots, I criticized you for connecting dots that can't logically be connected.

Nor did I say my argument was sarcastic. I said my last sentence was.

But good job reading things into that that aren't there. Where have I seen you do that before?
My point has been that he made his protest into an anti-BSA thing when he destroyed his Eagle. I have no problem with him holding his views and respect him for that. I don't respect his treatment of his Eagle. If you don't comprehend that, then you are the one that needs to learn to read things. Cheers!
It is quite clear that your point was far more than that. But even if it were not, first, he did NOT destroy his Eagle. He swapped out the ribbon. It could just as easily be swapped back in. Characterizing this as him destroying it indicates a bias that prejudices your perceptions from the outset.
Second. It is his Eagle, and he did ALL the things to earn it that you feel dictate respect. It is those deeds that garner respect, NOT a worthless piece of cloth and metal.
If you don't comprehend THAT, then learning to read is the least of your problems.
onemoroni11 year ago
I know my comment will probably offend some, but in all honesty all I see is an honored symbol being defaced for political purposes. This method of making a statement offends me in the same manner as when the American flag is inappropriately displayed or commercialized. I believe honored symbols deserve our respect and there are more appropriate venues of expression to make our personally important statements.
noelnny1 year ago
The problem really is the rainbow coalition is tacitly prejudicial - there is no white or black in their ribbon.

It's a lifestyle and a choice - which fortunately does not create any progeny from it's physical relations

My Opinion - America - have a right to it and to express it -
Yeah, just like choosing your sex 'lifestyle.' And as far as producing progeny--there are plenty of sterile cuckoos. Biology is not destiny.
I see that several commentators are current Scouts, so I wanted to speak up.

Scouting is about inspiring young men to become model citizens and leaders through overcoming individual and shared challenges that mold character and build confidence. There are a lot of parts of life that Scouts strongly believe have no impact on Scouting like race, economic circumstances, disability, etc. When your patrol is trying to win the orientiering competition, you aren't thinking about your differences, you are thinking about your fellow Scouts.

But, how did sex get to be such an issue in Scouts? Do they have merit badges now for how to put on a condom (not a bad idea healthwise, but uncomfortable to even think about my former Scoutmaster demonstrating)? How does having sex have anything to do with Scouting? Most Scouts haven't even hit puberty.

Yet, here we are, talking about Scouts and who they should screw.

Look, we know what Scouting is supposed to be doing to make better men. We know that Scouting is tolerant of differences that don't prevent you from being a success in Scouts.

So, why are we talking about who to f*ck when it only is relevant the Scout's religious morals and has no impact on their ability to grow and learn from the Scouting experience? Why?
Narsil1 year ago
As an Eagle Scout since November 1993, I will proudly leave my medal as it was awarded me and support the BSA in standing up for their core values.
lesizz Narsil1 year ago
Like bigotry is any kind of value!
Narsil lesizz1 year ago
You sound awfully intolerant towards those who disagree with you. You should try practicing what you preach. The Boy Scouts of America are.
Calling out intolerance is not itself intolerance. This is a logical fallacy.
On the contrary, the intolerance of intolerance is the highest form of hypocrisy.
lesizz Narsil1 year ago
So, I should be tolerant of neo-Nazis who want to promote future atrocities?
On the contrary, the tolerance of intolerance is the highest form of hypocrisy.
Narsil lesizz1 year ago
You can attempt to be clever all you'd like but, what it boils down to, is tolerance preachers are only tolerant to those who agree with them, the very definition of intolerance. Your intolerance of my intolerance offends me and hurts my feelings. The Federal Government should pass laws forcing you to be tolerant towards people like me. That will fix everything.
Nice false dichotomy. So you are claiming that toleration extends to intolerance? If you can't see the logical quandary there, that is sad.
Im a life scout working on my eagle and part of the scout law is to be moraly straight, I support you and the BSA fully
melkins Narsil1 year ago
Amen brother
Agreed. Its ALL about core values!
Tim Temple1 year ago
Instructables is home based in San Fransisco. Eventually this was going to get politicized by the city's favorite people.

I could print a Jim Beam label on a white ribbon and use it in an Eagle scout medal to honor alcoholics in the name of diversity, but I don't think I'll bother.
blanchae1 year ago
You should get a badge for this...
bobkrispen (author)  blanchae1 year ago
Can I hack that one too?
sanmarr1 year ago
Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent.

That sums up the Eagle award to me, and this hasn't changed in 17 years. Nothing anyone can do to a symbol of the award can affect it, nor me.

Freedom of speech. Right on.
Radicalone1 year ago
Unless you were or are now involved in Scouting, keep your opinions to yourself.

Go look up an instructable on how to build a backyard windmill or a self-turning composter. It'll be a better use of your time and will spare us from having to listen to your ignorant drivel.

YIS

quiregrrl1 year ago
Awesome instructable :) shame about the comments section :(
DoItOrDie1 year ago
There was a time when red, white and blue was considered all inclusive. It symbolized the country, not a particular sect or race. It alone symbolized the people. Their sacrifice, their valor, and their beliefs in certain ideals not often found in most of the world. The white does not stand for caucasion people, though some race baiters would have you think otherwise. Though the red stands for "hardiness and valor," it is often used to signify the blood of it's people. Last I checked, that is red for everyone. To think we need more and more colors is silly and pretentious. It goes to the heart of what divides this country now. You can never put in enough colors to include every little difference and every group, so why try? I think it's time we got back to basics and honored the 3 original colors, period. Someone from every group, regardless of color, sexual persuasion, or political leanings has shed blood under those basic 3 colors.

You want to hack the Eagle, fine. Then reinvigorate it with a new ribbon of the same colors, bright and fresh. Reaffirm the ideals every group died to preserve and enhance, not replace them with current politically correct fads which will never stand the test of time.
madmommy1 year ago
http://www.scouting.org/media/PressReleases/2012/20120607.aspx
If the 'ible has been posted by an active Scouting member, the membership can be revoked based on this action.
bobkrispen (author)  madmommy1 year ago
Have I engaged in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the BSA?

Or is there some other reason that this ible violates the press release?
Oh, yes, let's tattle, madmommy. That'll show 'em what scouts are all about.
It seems that anything and everything political has to creep into places where it really has little if any relevance.
The politics was included when the boy scouts refused memeberships to gay boys. What you are really objecting to is anyone calling you on it and making you face the downside of the policy, mainly, that lots of people don't go along to get along.
sail4sea1 year ago
I am going to avoid the commentary on the political aspects of this Instructable. We all have our opinions and it is sad to see people use this forum for political purposes. We're getting enough politics now. (Try watching Youtube, without an interstitial ad about Obama or Romney.) The name-calling of those who disagree is not worthy of honest debate. People can honestly disagree on fundamental issues without descending to ad hominem attacks and that is exactly what I am seeing from the comments.

What compelled me to comment was the technical aspects of this Instructable. I was curious into what goes into making a medal. It seems practical and useful for make ones own medal for cosplay or something. I have bits of metal that would be useful for cosplay medals, but I didn't know how to make the ribbon part. This Instructable was informative. I don't think I would take apart my eagle scout medal, if I had one or if I were an eagle scout, but it would be easy to apply this to making ones own design for costumes and such thing. I can think of several applications for a steam punk or military science fiction costume.
KevSmith1 year ago
If you are interested in the core of The Boy Scouts of America download a new book called "Four Percent". It is an awesome look into Eagle Scout award.
moleman1 year ago
I LOVE THIS!!!
I have to dig out my Eagle Scout medal, do this, and attend a Boy Scout meeting.
So cool, I can't image why anyone hasn't done this before.
Steveu8121 year ago
I'm highly disappointed that this site would support a flagrant disrespect for the Boy Scouts of America. I'm looking at the orange box below touting a "be nice" comment policy. It seems that the adminstrators don't apply this to an instructable itself. This wreaks of hypocricy. Where is the tolerance and respect of those who are part of an organization that remains dedicated to the protection of young men?
Which young men?
Protection from what, exactly?
Wow, the BSA is perfect? When an organization fosters hate, I don't consider that perfect. A lot of their past policies are coming home to roost because they thought they were above it all. Time to pay the piper and move into the 21st century if they want to survive. In the meantime, I consider them just another brown shirted organization.
Completely agree
I don't see disrespect.
he is certainly still in the organization !
I don't see the link with the protection of young men ? ? ?
IDThoris1 year ago
I LOVE this. Change comes from within, which is why we have our kids in scouts. I also love this Instructable in that it is a practical application of making something cool even cooler. We're going to steal your idea and give you major props when we do.
bret0bret1 year ago
What a fantastic instructable. As seen on the internet in the past year, many Eagle Scouts have returned their Eagle award to the Boy Scouts of America with heartfelt letters expressing disappointment at the BSA's exclusionary practices. I earned my Eagle Scout award in 1998 and have considered doing the same.

The Boy Scouts were a tremendously positive experience in my life. I am of the opinion that any young person, gay or straight, should feel welcomed and supported by the BSA. It is difficult for me to be proud of an award that is not open to all boys of any orientation.

This instuctable does not desectrate or shame the honor of the BSA, it is the BSA's stance that shames itself. The BSA is free to practice discrimination just as the author of this instructable and myself are free to protest it.

Well done.
jasonrun1 year ago
Copyright - this means someone else can't issue the same exact award from their own organization, it does not mean that someone that has possession of the award cannot alter it for their own purposes. If that were the case it would be illegal to highlight words in a book.

Private organization (can do what they want) - Correct, and this private individual can do what he wants with his possessions.

Right to join the organization vs Desecrate an award - Freedom of speech in fact does give this right.

Lies / dishonesty to get award - This assumes that he was opposed to the organization while in it. The beautiful thing about rational human beings is that they can adjust their worldview as they acquire new information. Perhaps he was completely honest and faithful to the organization while earning that award, and later realized that he was taking part in bigotry and wanted to express to the world that he was someone that went through that and grew past it.

When I first saw this instructable I thought that it was a nice gesture, but didn't apply to me too much since I left after Webelos. Now that I've seen how many people get bent out of shape about this I want to buy the ones available on ebay (there are quite a few) just to do this modification (maybe an adjustment of it that has both the red, white, and blue as well as the rainbow) and resell them on ebay. Maybe I could even offer to do the modification for people that have earned the award, but now feel like it's a symbol of bigotry and want to show that they still are proud of their achievements, but not everything that the organization stands for.
This is a great comment, but sadly logic does not hold priority for those who attempt to shame and silence those that they see as different or even subhuman.
Very true, still not wasted time writing it down since I am among the many who enjoy the clarity of his comment.
ajmckay1 year ago
Looks nice...

I'm not LGBTN though, so I'll make a different one. I am overweight so maybe I could make it a little shorter and get a slightly wider ribbon to make the award look overweight too.

Another perfect use for this, I have a buddy that got his eagle about the same time I did. He's autistic so I could re-do his (or get one off eBay) with a puzzle piece on the ribbon.

The eagle award could be made to reflect whatever defines an eagle scout candidate best. He/she/it could choose from:
- Race
- Heritage
- Gender
- Religion
- Sexuality
- Addiction
- Social status
- Age
- Disability
- Hair color
- Height/Weight
- Intelligence Quotient (or maybe ACT score?)
- Profession
- Illness/Cancer
- College/University/G.E.D.
- Musical type preference
- Brand of smart phone or mp3 player (Can I hear a shout out from all my "Apple" eagle scouts!)
- Diet (carnivore/omnivore/vegetarian/vegan/starving)

Or... maybe we should realize that we're all unique (it's 2012, if you're not accepting of that you are an idiot), but instead of pointing out the many, many things that make us different we could just accept that this award is a symbol of unity for those who share similar ideals, goals, and values. Again, no matter their differences.

I get it, this is supposed to be a protest or something, however, I don't think this is the best way to show it.
This award should be available to all scouts no matter their differences, as long as they serve others and live up to and honor the ideals of an eagle scout. The award itself shouldn't be changed though IMO.
jcbazemore1 year ago
As an Eagle Scout I'm offended by this. The BSA is a private organization and as such can set its own policies. If you don't agree with what they do then join up with another organization. I would say it's more un-American to remove the American Flag colors from the award.
Spoken like a true scout.
True scouts are not to challenge authority in any case, it seems.
As I said before, is it better to leave rather than try to make it better ?

(when I say better, it is not directly linked to the LGBT case but more general and of course subject to one's opinion)

BP told us to try to make a better world.
I'm also a scout and i must say i agree.
Yes, because America stands for blind obedience to intolerant policies.
I was a Boy Scout, they wouldn't let my buddy get his Eagle rank because he was an atheist. That's when I quit.
Now it's "the gays".
I guess it's cool to be a pedophile though.
It is indeed a private organization. And it's one that needs to get into the 21st century.
If it's unAmerican to use your first amendment rights to make a statement with your own personal property, then I guess I'm a Commie.
"On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. "
Morally straight means standing up for the downtrodden. That's MY duty to God and Country.
Blind obedience is not bravery.
tjesse1 year ago
The boy scouts seems irrelevant these days. There are many young men that benefit from it; however, it became too serious and strayed too far into the personal lives of others to be worth fighting for. I do applaud the fact that this project made me think about something I would not have normally. Being a father of a girl and a girl on the way, I can't say that I have a horse in this race. I was a scout and looking back it seemed too old fashioned.
Intolerance is unAmerican!
Granny, intolerance of the people who were here when our forefathers arrived is what built the America you see around you today. By and large, we are the most intolerant nation on the planet. We send our military to foreign hell holes because we can't tolerate the way they live their lives, either. I'm all for live and let live, but this kind of crap is wrong. When did it become okay for gays to bully the world? If they do not like the rules of an organization, they can simply not be part of it. Why don't they start the Gay Scouts of America if they want to go camping that badly? I am sick of all the little special interest groups trying to force their agendas on the rest of us.
But then you are intolerant of the BSA's intolerant policies... Hmm, i'm missing something...
You can tolere an opinion, a belief, a faith, but can you have tolerance toward a policy ???
Its not un-American, it encourages the freedom we are promised, and encourages positive reforms! This is AWESOME!!!! (The exclamation points are from excitement, not anger)
Of course I must TOLERATE your views (pro gay etc.) yet you are allowed and encouraged to be INTOLERANT of my views (traditional values). A one way street as usual.
lesizz1 year ago
SUPPORT YOU 100%

Disrespect would be letting the organization go its erroneous way without protesting.

Never mind the mindless knee-jerk responses.
action pig1 year ago
Nice instructable! Very nice looking result, too.
canida1 year ago
Well done, and inspirational. Thank you for sharing your idea.
canida1 year ago
Well done, and inspirational. Thank you for sharing your idea.
therufs1 year ago
All I got to say.
hatersgonnahate.jpg
lancetx1 year ago
I think it looks great - a wonderful job and a great statement both.
I have started a feedback topic against this instrucable. You can see my post from before about why this is disgraceful. If you agree, please post to this topic here---> http://www.instructables.com/community/Defacing-of-a-hard-earned-award-and-instructibles-/
rhino1 year ago
A great instructable! And timely too considering that the Boy Scouts of American just released information on thousands of cases of pedophilia among scout leaders going back decades that had been covered up. Some of which were never even reported to law enforcement. For the BSA to behave like this while denying gay scouts the Eagle award is highly hypocritical. When I was up for my Eagle board of review in the 70's I had to do some soul searching and I decided that the Eagle award was not for me because in my troop it was practically given away by well meaning but not very bright adults. I think youngsters who have to do the work for the award should get it, regardless of their sexual orientation.
jstoner1 year ago
Love it! There are a lot of responses to the problems with the Boy Scout policy. Some guys have been sending their medals back, which I can understand, but makes me sad. I like this better.

Though you want to hang on to the original ribbon--if (when) they change the policy, you may want to change it back.
BryceOwen1 year ago
"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

While I'm not for "altering" my Eagle Scout award, the ribbon is damaged and I was wondering the best way to repair or replace it. So, in that capacity, thank you for your instructable!
phenoptix1 year ago
A great hack and statement well made.
chipper351 year ago
correction: "A scout is: "
garcanno1 year ago
i love this idea! makes me sad to have been kicked out just before getting to eagle.
jmatthias1 year ago
Thank you! I have been tryin to decide what to do vet since BSA renewed their commitment to intolerance. I am simultaneously ashamed and proud of being an Eagle Scout. This is an AWESOME solution. I'm away from my actual award for the next few months, but as soon as I'm home again, this is high priority on the project list!
omakii1 year ago
This is fantastic. Thank you.
MonkiMan1 year ago
Love it!!!
omnibot1 year ago
If all the awards had rainbowribbon I might've joined the boyscouts. Nice work.
Now I REALLY want to do this, but I'm not an eagle... something to work for...
This is a huge commitment and greatly appreciated. We all know how much time you put in to get that.
Wonderful and creative idea. Thanks for sharing!
gregin1 year ago
Clever. Clever indeed.
Kiteman1 year ago
Oh, that's a very clever statement - I hope you wear it with pride!

Nick705871 year ago
I like it. You can be proud of who you are and of your accomplishment.
Ora1 year ago
So respectable. Well done.
Wolf Seril1 year ago
Great idea.
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