How to build a 72Volt electric motorcycle

FOR SALE  -  http://www.ben.cbccinc.com/BEM/forsale.htm

No gas, no oil and almost silent. 72 Volts, 70mph of pure fun. This is how I built an electric motorcycle.

Step 1: Why and how

I only work 3 miles from home but with gas prices getting out of control, I thought it would be great to have an electric vehicle. I've always wanted a motorcycle and decided that making an electric motorcycle would be a good EV project, keeping costs down, and be fun to ride.

This project took about 3 months of research and development (not counting waiting for parts to come in or help from a friend with the welding). All in all, it cost about $3000 to buy and build. This may take a long time to pay off in gas savings, but if you add the fun of building and all of the environmental benefits, it was well worth the effort. With a top speed of over 70 mph and 10 miles per charge, this vehicle is perfect for me. The following instructable will not give you exact step by step instructions, but if you have some mechanical skills and welding ability you should be okay. A little knowledge of motorcycle maintenance wouldn't hurt, too. However, I just read the user's manual and learned as I went.

Comments

[kelevra88]

How long could you expect to get from these batteries ,Mileage and/or lifespan?

[steveo625c6]

What are some of the specs:

How many HP is the motor?

Top speed?

[Wesley666]

That motor is probably no more then 3 or 4 hp. Top speed is 70mph.

[alenz1]

The bike was beautiful and tidy and better: clean, quiet and it seems pretty fun. Congratulations!

[charlesfries]

Would anyone like to view/correct my schematic for a 24V system with an Alltrax controller?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m45g8hZaBS1qkbchho1_1280.jpg

Thanks!

[captiin]

i think your good but its kinda hard to read it might help if you color coordinate and spred it out a bit

[piyushpatanwadia]

plz give me motor RPM of this bike.

[vaibhav agrawal]

can we not make an electric engine bike......i mean to say such a bike can work with petrol and electricity both
..

[piyushpatanwadia]

yes, it's possible. it's call hybrid bike.

[tim127]

thats really cool, i wouldnt even know it was home built. how many volts is one of those battaries and how much did they cost?

[charlesfries]

12V in each of the batteries, and they cost about $175 each. He used six in series for 72V.

[thorngil55]

Dear Stryker, I am highly interested in doing this build so I can get to school and back efficiently, but I'm mostly concerned about insurance. I live in California and have a large insurance company. I was wondering if it was difficult getting insured and if you used a small specialty insurance company? also I'm concerned about the premium because it is a home build bike. Was that the case with your bike?

[Stryker]

I did use a local insurance company and just registered it as a custom bike with minimum coverage. The CC rating was put in as the original bike.

[charlesfries]

http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-Your-Own-ELECTRIC-MOTORCYCLE/step2/Legal-Insurance-and-Registration/

This is a great write-up on how to register your bike.

Cheers!

- Charles

[redticker]

Love this project,in fact I have started my own with the exact same bike! Can you tell me if you need to change the back and front sprockets, and if so can you tell me the specs and where you bought them?
Thanks
[e-mail]

[Stryker]

I left the rear sprocket alone but changed out the front. A friend gave me one but I don't remember what the number is. Sorry. I think you can get the sizing online somewhere if you know how fast you want to go. I want to change them both out for a belt drive system.

[gautam nitin]

hi buddy,
congrats man, u done a great job.
i'm totally impressed & wanna take u as my inspiration because from many years i'm planning to do such model but unfortunately i dint find a way to start it.
after knowing reading ur process, i'm happy to tell u that even i'm going to start like ur model & procedure but 1 change in it.
so, can u help me out in this?
reply [e-mail]

[TSC]

Nice that things pretty awsome I think I might build one when I'm older and have the money. Great job!

[gggiiilllbbbeeerrrttt]

where do you find an old motorcyle

[Karletto555]

in a junkyard

[Stryker]

ebay,  craiglist, motorcycle scrap repair shops.

[rainbowrider42]

Hello Stryker. This is my second post here since I became an avid follower of all the instructable projects in this site for five years already. I admire your e-bike project. Can I request for the pdf of your instructable coz i can't download it here for no apparent reason. Maybe something wrong with my pc. My email add: [e-mail]. I want to make my own e-bike based on your design. I'm from the Philippines and the cost of gas here is very high for my motorcycle. Thanks to this site, I receive an email regarding the projects of e-bikes and I really like to make my own to cut down the cost of riding my motorcycle. Thanks a lot.

[garretttm]

You can't download the PDF because that is a feature limited to Pro accounts. As that is how instructables makes money, i'm guessing a pro member won't download it and send it to you. If you want it, you've got to pay.

Wait a minute... is this kim dotcom?

[rainbowrider42]

Hi, This is my first interaction here in Instructables though i've been browsing and reading comments on every project for more that 5 years. First: I really like your project that I wanted to make my own. I really admire your E-bike finished product. Secondly, Is it ok for you if I request you to send me the instructions via e-mail coz i can't download the pdf of your instructable here? you may send it to: [e-mail]. thanks a lot. If I receive your email, immediately i will start making my own e-bike based on your concept. BTW, I am from the Philippines and I love this site and all the projects here. KUDOS to everybody who shared their talents, time, efforts. I salute to the people behind this site.

[earthwindwater]

That is a very slick conversion! Nice!

[kenbob]

Beautiful work

[Stryker]

Thanks. I'm actually in the process of upgrading the batteries to Lithium. I had to rebuild the entire battery housing so it's taking a while. It should increase my range and power.

[pubicperm]

Okay as for the people commenting about the perpetual motion. Why can we not build something that uses multiple forms of recharging, re-generative brakes magnetos on the wheels, an air inlet with a turbine and maybe some solar paneling too? In motorcycle format this doesn't seem impossible because their is a lot less drag and resistance.

[andrew.downs1990]

Any machanical work needed to generate electrical energy requires it's own energy source to drive it, and this energy is always greater than the electrical energy produced.

The Second Law of thermodynamics essentially says that energy exhibits entropy. It moves away form its source. In machine terms, you have to add energy to get more work, and the ratio of energy to work will never equal 100% due to energy expanding away from its source.

Solar pannels are a good source of energy used to get work but all other forms of "self recharging" through a mechanical means would require work and energy of a greater amount that it would produce.

[dans060887]

This is all true. But by adding magnetos, or re-gen brakes could lessen the strain on the batteries causing them to stay charged longer and therefore increase the range of the vehicle.

[tootall1121]

Some of today's vehicles have the charging feature from the wheels during braking. Not a big deal to think up, somebody in my sixth grade class thought of it way back in the dark ages. Harder to do, though. I truly think that electric is not the way to go for vehicles, until and unless very high capacity batteries become widely available. Alternative fuels, turbine engines, or maybe even a new version of a Wankle, seem more likely. It's possible to run a standard internal combustion engine on anything that burns. the better it burns the better fuel it is, but I've seen a pickup truck powered this way, the owner preferred wood chips and sawdust. Basically the material is contained in a "smoker" that heats the material, but oxygen is at a minimum, so it doesn't burn with a flame, it just smokes. heat has to initially come from some source like alcohol, to get it started, but once smoking is no longer required. Another way to handle that would be to start the engine on another fuel, say propane, then once the exhaust gets hot, let it heat the material. The engine burns the smoke via a carburetor, in this case one designed for propane originally. I can envision this gas being compressed by what amounts to a supercharger, mixed with compressed air, to make an efficient, high performance engine. The original wasn't but that doesn't mean it couldn't be done that way. Oh by the way, an auger system keeps fuel in the "smoker."

[eraj1]

hello sir,
Is there any possible of regenerating in E-bike.

[krashtest]

Couldn't you charge the batteries while riding with a magneto? Lotsa volts with a minimal drag. They got the old brit bikes down the road for years, and todays electronics technology being what it is......just wonderin.

[luckadoo42]

Wouldnt that be perpetual motion, though?

[krashtest]

Not perpetual motion. Anybody got any unobtanium? I'm just wonderin why the hybrids are only charging on regenerative braking or whatnot. Magnetos produce thousands of volts,(when working right), and require very minimal energy to operate. Not trying to sound like a downer, but I can't help thinking that so many of the hurdles we now face, in respect to fossil fuel free transportation, will quickly disappear as soon as chevron or bp put their business models in place to maximize their profits from the industry. The LAST thing the corporate giants want right now is fossil free futures. Drill baby drill! Alas....I rant.

[luckadoo42]

Just out of curiosity, do they call unobtanium because its unobtainable or does it have some sort of latin meaning?

[StuNutt]

I think that "unobtanium" may be a "Terry-Pratchett-ism" to me.

[krashtest]

Its as obtainable as upsadaisium....Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a hat outta my rabbit! I'm just sayin luck, I kinda think we've been saddled with a bad bill of goods. This is corporate america. We certainly need more Teslas around. I hear they're doin some cool stuff with capacitors now instead of or maybe in conjunction with batteries.

[badideasrus]

well, technically no. the magneto will never make as much energy as you use. but it should boost.... time between charges?(man, i only speak English and i can't figure out how to say it..... why is our language so dang hard?)

[luckadoo42]

Ah, yes, but it takes energy to change energy from one form to the other, and in the process, one almost always losses energy (if you didn't, then that would be 100% efficiency...), so any increase in time between charges would be minimal, which means that any energy gained would probably be countered by something else that just dislike perfection.

[badideasrus]

i see your point, though i didn't quite get that last bit.

but still, we both agree it's not going to create perpetual motion.

magnetos work so well with 'those old dirt bikes' because a gas engine creates tons of energy, much more than needed to get you down the road.

off course, you could always peddal :) lol

[mcmonte]

I wanted to do something like this 14 years ago. Then about 8 years ago, 4 years ago and now I'm over it. Every time I want a bike I read something in the paper, or see something on the news that stops me cold. I digress,

If you want to increase range a little more, additional methods include:
- use a brushless motor
- get the best batteries you can. Absorbed glass mat (AGM) aren't quite the pinnacle, but they can't leak and some have good capacities
- consider small, flexible solar panels that can conform to top-facing surfaces like top of fuel tank, ducktail etc. Trickle-charge a little while parked!
- consider these little buggers: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/wind-powered-led-light-for-vehicles-2-pack-5172

Might seem silly, but my idea was to place these tiny wind generators in fairing gaps (where airflow to voltage controller etc would not be affected).
So maybe 6 or 8 of these little guys, (of course you removed the leds) to divert the energy produced into an auxiliary channel of the charging circuit.
It could work!

[doodle moo]

if you added wsmall wind turbines it would make it slightly harder to drive meaning it would use more electricity so much so that you would not gain any and would loose a little bit

[mcmonte]

I agree if they were wind turbines in the common, huge sense.
...but click the link provided ^

These are tiny, lightweight plastic items that represent NO parasitic loss. They're designed for bicycle or car exterior and as they spin, generate something like 1V (if that) to illuminate one LED.

If the air is passing through a vent anyway, why not use it?

[jmengel]

If the tiny, lightweight plastic items truly represented no parasitic loss then they would not light the LED. The reason not to use the air passing through the vent anyway is called thermodynamics, as in there is no free lunch.

[mcmonte]

Ahh, so the blade that weighs 0.1 gram spinning in an otherwise wasted air channel is not worth doing. I see.

By themselves, the little wind powered LEDs *do* have a degree of inefficiency, as they don't use high quality bearings etc. Yes, there is some friction.

In the context of the overall project though, you're getting a bit of electricity for what? Negligible wind resistance.

Using your argument, you'd also oppose the use of a capacitor to store static electricity from the riders body. Well, the cap *weighs* something doesn't it? lol

[Andsetinn]

Let´s just say that if wind turbines are not powerful enough to cause losses they are not powerful enough to drive the motorcycle.

Solar cells small enough to not effect the shape of the vehicle are not powerful enough to drive it.

Because of losses in each step of transformation, of wind energy to electric energy to chemical energy (battery) to electric energy to moving energy again, and losses in storage. It is clear that no equipment attached to moving vehicle, and driven by it´s movement, will ever cause it to go faster or further. If it could, we'd have solved humankind's energy problems.

[zack247]

i think mcmonte was saying to use the little turbines to trickle charge the batteries, but in my opinion, i would use them to charge a small 7.2v battery and run all of the lights off of that, im sure that would save energy, wouldnt it?

[mcmonte]

@Andsetinn: I never suggested using an array of tiny generators to "drive the motorcycle". I'm not so naive to seriously believe that is possible. My original suggestion was merely to help *offset* the discharge. Remember, the batteries used for these projects aren't huge capacity, because the higher the capacity of the battery, the more it weighs.
Trickle-charge - anybody heard of that concept?

@zack247: Yes, ancillaries circuit or trickle back into the speed controller, maybe take 1-2% load off the main batteries. Or how about a super-capacitor? Why not charge that for an extra speed burst?

About 5 years ago, a South African solar company launched a new type of solar film. Supposedly, it could conform to almost any shape. Why not use something like that on a vehicle? Some electric/hybrid concept cars have solar panels on the roof.

Those little solar powered window-mount ventilator fans have been around 10+ years and they seem to work.

Personally, I'd be happy to park my vehicle outside during the day to help *offset* the discharge from my morning commute. Even if it means 1 hour less recharging at home, that's money saved, is it not?

[emanpa68]

If cost is your concern, the payback on the solar setup would take a very long time, plus during the installation you would need to offset the additional weight to make it payback faster.


Anyways, about the wind turbines, these types of "troll physics" drives my ocd crazy. Not to sound like an attack, but honestly the net result will be negative installing that product.

Even if your goal is to ease the use of your batteries, that will be impossible to achieve. The total drag and added weight (however minuscule) will never be more efficient then direct wiring to the battery (solar setup in a 0 drag manner and performing a weight reduction of the bike would though!). The batteries will have to work harder to get you to where you want to go (even a tiny bit harder still counts as work)

Conservation of energy will always cause on board wind systems to fail.

[mcmonte]

Oh, and if weight saving is so important to you, why not remove the rider from the equation?

After all, the human form needs a fairing help reduce drag. The fairing weighs something. So do away with both.
Win-win.

[emanpa68]

What? I hope that was a joke, lol... yeah, taking a s**t would probably offset the weight and drag of those wind power lights so yeah... that would work...

[mcmonte]

No, cost is not my concern. In fact, nothing is of concern to me at all.

As my first comment alluded, I grew out of motorcycles over 20 years ago. I have no desire to reprise that chapter of my life.

What I offered are suggestions. They need not be taken literally. They might get some people thinking "outside the box" and I reckon that can only be a good thing.

After all, it's through experimentation, and often quite by accident, that new things are discovered or invented.

[Andsetinn]

Sorry for that. When I said/wrote "not powerful enough to drive the motorcycle.". I meant to say assist in driving the motorcycle. But that is not right either. They can assist in driving the motorcycle.

The thing is, as I pointed out in the last paragraph, that because of losses in energy conversions wind turbines will cause more drag than the power they create to "assist in driving the motorcycle" so the net effect would be that they'd slow the motorcycle down.

Solar cells need to be about 10 cm on each side to make 1 watt each hour. (like these super solar cells at amazon http://www.amazon.com/Super-Solar-Cells-0-5V-2-pk/dp/B002MAYDZ4). Each battery can store almost 500 watt-hours (when new), and there are six of them making the total almost 3000 watt-hours. The motorcycle goes 10 miles per charge, 300 watt-hours per mile (which is low if you ask me, because 1 horsepower is calculated as over 700 watts and you certainly need more than 1 horsepower to reach 70 mph). If you have very sunny days and daylight for 16 hours each day it would take almost 190 days to fully charge the batteries using 4 of the cells from amazon. Or for 8 hour charge (a working day) you could drive the motorcycle for 130 feet, about the length of a 1 and a half basketball courts.

[jmengel]

Why not just skip right to making a perpetual motion machine?

[mcmonte]

lol you have 16 'ibles under your belt, so I'll defer to your obvious level of mastery in all things creative. Might I suggest longitudinal electromagnetism? You know, what Nicola Tesla invented about 100 years ago?

As to your comprehension of the English written word? Sorry.
Perhaps you should look up definitions of the words "offset" and "recovery" because in part, that's what my original post suggested.

[rashidmaroof]

hey guys did you see this video of the "forever electric car" it goes along your topic of windturbine used in a vehicle, very cool concept. i think it should be used somehow to "offset" (lol) fuel consumption.

please click link, you will love it. i did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkcn8ZkvKKc&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL5F22FE96F32E4208

[rephistorch]

The point of his posts were that there is no "offset" or "recovery" of energy, because it takes more energy away from the bike to "create" that small amount of electricity. Example: those fans each produce 1 watt while driving 70 MPH, however weight and drag due to air resistance (which is what causes the fans to turn in the first place) would drain the battery 1.2 watts. Which of course results in a net -.2 Watts of energy per fan. With our current understanding of the laws of physics, we know that over-unity is not possible.

[StuNutt]

About the only way that "wind generators" could usefully recharge the batteries would be to cut them in when then brakes came on.

Using "regenerative braking" (as already used in current hibrid cars) could add a useful bit of charge to the batteries when you want to slow down (especially if it's from 70 mph!)

I'd like to build a battery motor-bike but, sadly, my SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) has a serious aversion to motorised 2-wheeled vehicles ( a friend's husband was wiped out on one, driving thru town on the way to work one morning) and she'll never let me go back to my "Bol D'Or Honda 500" days.

Otherwise, I'd give this 'ible a go!

[eog89f]

(removed by author or community request)

[zack247]

SPAM

[arivera-2]

will it work if it rains??

[chinaeu]

It is a very good idea to build the electric motorcycle alone. I could present some electric motorcycle with cost comparison. please visit our website : http://electric-motor.chinaeu.de/ or http://www.chinaeu.de/

[phoenix_locksmith]

Its color is so attractive and lively.

[gsl202]

awesome ! best looking electric conversion bike i've ever seen!

[Stryker]

Thanks. It was fun to build.

[erfquake]

Hey Stryker, again: fine job!
The battery dimensions/positions together with the bike's own frame restrictions, toward the ultimate goal of maximum performance, must have been a maddening set of compromises to make.
Knowing what you do now, after the bike's been made, would you have chosen a bike model other than this one? In retrospect, do you think you nailed it, or would a slightly different cage design have allowed you to opt for the higher amp batteries you wanted?

[Stryker]

I am happy with my bike choice. It's a little heavy but I liked the style and the price was right. However you really need the lightest bike you can get. The new ones made for electric from the ground up are the best. But it all comes down to batteries. Save up to get LiPo or something like that. Lead is just too heavy/big.

[darius562]

What is the biggest speed?

[Stryker]

It goes about 70mph.

[stingrayz]

Why doesn't any one use the transmission from the original gas motor? Electric motors have higher torque. With gears it seams a person would get more distance from a charge. Using a touring type frame like from a Harley, the extra batteries could be in the saddle bags. This would put more weight on the power wheel for the wheelies. Lol

[zeroemission]

so THAT'S how you hid the "extra batteries", you stacked them high and hid them in the gas tank! very clever. i imagine it makes the cycle a little top heavy, but it looks so much more finished like that.

have you ever thought about making side panels for "the engine compartment" to hide the batteries altogether? some carbon fiber would look slick there.

[zeroemission]

nice clean installation. most other conversions have their batteries bulging out all over, but you did a great job of fitting everything inside the frame and making it look stock.

i'd like to build a lightweight & aero 1 seater sandrail style buggy, but can't find the COMPLETE information on how many watts per pound are needed for a given speed. everything i find ends in a different measure eg. kilojoules, watts 7 horsepower etc. it's really frustrating.

as i've seen several motorycle designs that can do 55mph & 50 miles with as little as 4x 12v batteries, i would think a low, narrow & light buggy that has a similar weight & drag should be able to do better than that with 8 x 12v batteries.

if anyone knows of a COMPLETE calculator or set of formulas for designing EVs, please do share as i can't find the info anywhere with plain english searches anyways.

[BIGHAIRYDUDE]

how big is that?

[hhhttt]

gotz kweztyons what happenz when it rains? XD

[eddieserrano27]

Great information...thanks.... questions? Should I care on how much amps the batteries have? Or the controller will take care of the amps completely? Should focus on how much volt the batteries can produces only?

[Bills fan1.0]

me too.

[Stryker]

Around 3000. Check out http://www.ben.cbccinc.com/BEM/BEM.htm for cost breakdown.

[tsubasa53]

i was wondering how much it cost to build this

[icecoolwas]

Hey, this looks like a great project, I deffo want to make one. I was wondering, if I used like 0 AWG wiring, wouldn't it be more effiecient and get me some more range? Also just out of interest, how much did this cost you total? Thanks

[Stryker]

Thanks, I think O AWG would cut down on resistance but you basically only get more range from lighter bike and more battery storage. For more info on this project you can check out http://www.ben.cbccinc.com/BEM/BEM.htm

[punkhead58]

An alternator would be a nice upgrade from an AC charger.

[Mr.Grinch]

While researching online for a school project, Alternators (to my surprise) actually output in DC. They generate AC, but before leaving the housing the power is changed to DC by an internal wave rectifier. My class, luckily, had bought a $50 inverter to go from DC to AC for a different part of the project, and we used it on the alternator. The alternator and inverter combined was still smaller than a charger though, (not that we needed one for our project) good observation.

[punkhead58]

Wait a minute... The bike is powered by an AC motor? And, if not, why is it relevant that alternators produce a direct current (obviously they do, hence their use in automobiles). But, I digress, for I simply meant that this person could wire an alternator to the DC battery bank, chain it to the motor, and convert the mechanical energy that is already being produced into electrical energy to charge the batteries, for that would be more convenient than charging the battery bank off board with an AC adapter. Please excuse my rash tone; I didn't mean to be condescending. You are absolutely correct about the electrical properties of alternators, however the swift change of subject confused me. I do believe that it was a simple misunderstanding due to my wording in a previous post. Have a good day, Sir.

[unitdrop_forge]

Punkhead - the reasons an alternator wouldn't work are that they put out DC voltage at just over 12V. This would not charge a 72V bank because to charge an X-volt battery you need a charger with greater than X volts. Also, an alternator steals the mechanical energy from a vehicle to put back into the electrical system. In this case, you would be stealing energy from the batteries to charge the batteries and it would actually decrease the efficiency. You CAN charge the system via some form of an alternator while stopping. That process is called regenerative braking and there are setups capable of it (http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_etek-r.php see kit second from bottom). While this instructable powers the bike via a DC motor, you could power it with an AC motor, but your battery source is still DC. All production hybrid cars use a DC battery pack running AC motors. I hope that helps clarify both your original and follow-up queries!

[wraithsqaud]

is there an advantage to wiring the batteries in series and converting the voltage for the bike systems down instead of wiring them in parallel and converting the voltage up for the motor

[DabeAltis]

Wraithsquad, since nobody ever really answered your question, I'll put in my two cents. There is indeed a tremendous advantage. The power that is downconverted to 12 volts to power the control system, lights, etc., is a very small percentage of the total power of the batteries, and therefore a relatively small and inexpensive DC to DC converter will do the job. If you went the other direction the converter would have to be much larger and much more expensive. It would have to handle the lion's share of the load and battery power. This conversion is not 100% efficient, therefore the power lost in conversion would much higher. The current from the battery pack would be at least six times as high, therefore would require larger conductors and would be much more susceptible to resistance losses. I realize your question is almost a year old, but I am new to Instructables. Hope you get a chance to read this reply, and I hope it helps to answer your question.

[knikol]

I think some of you may have missed one of the points regarding the voltage converter. Only the motor is operated directly from the 72-Volts through the controller. The voltage converter is only there to operate the 12-Volt lights, turn-signals and such. The author's approach is probably the best trade-off in efficiency vs. weight, as opposed to a separate 12-Volt battery for the accessories.

[wraithsqaud]

Thanks. That makes it make a lot more sense now.  I was not thinking about the inefficiency of the converter

[dillweed2]

The batteries are connected in series, (pos to neg) to increase the voltage. Voltage is electrical pressure, comparable to PSI in a hydraulic system. The higher the voltage, the better efficiency and performance of a product. That's why you saw cordless tools go from 3V to 7V to 14V and now 18Volts. Wiring in parallel ( pos to pos and neg to neg) is how you jump a car battery. Parallel increases the amperage or capacity of the system while keeping the voltage the same. Flashlight batteries are connected in series (a 5 cell would be 7 1/2 volts). That's why electrical companies transfer power in thousands of volts, less resistance is greater efficiency.

[Stryker]

I don't understand what you mean. But I'm no electrical engineer so I doubt I could answer it if I did understand.

[msee]

Assume 12V deep cycle batteries.

Series Connection
6 x 12 = 72 V
72V x 100A = 7.2kW (or ~10 HP)

Designing a motor/controller combination to handle this voltage and current range is pretty easy and relatively inexpensive. There are MANY currently available.

Parallel Connection
1 x 12 = 12 V
12V X 600A = 7.2kW (or ~10 HP)

Although a DC-DC converter can be designed to convert 12V 600A to 72V 100A, it will add significant cost and weight, and will reduce efficiency of the overall system.

A motor could be designed to use 12V 600A, but it too would be less efficient because...

Resistive losses are a function of I*I*R, so as current increases resistive losses go up FAST. The lower you can keep the current, the better. That is one reason why AC power is transmitted over the grid at very high voltages and then stepped down locally.

[thewho30rb]

Firstly, absolutely awesome :-) I would love to find these commercially available some day. Secondly, have you considered doing something Harley-style? I bring it up because I think you could probably fit a significantly higher amount of equipment inside, like extra batteries and such.

[menahunie]

I started to look into possibly assembling my own electric motorcycle. I have seen the major cost can be the batteries. My question is what about using the Li-ion battery pack from a wrecked prius or a hybrid car using their battery pack? I see the cells and batteries for sale on ebay.

[thelame1]

Stryker, can't remember if you asked for link for battery co I spoke of before. If so, can't remember if I gave it to you. http://www.tekbattery.com  Batteries are expensive but could be worth it.  Also the link for the Vancouver electric vehicle association. My cousin John's an enthusiastic member and is planning an electric conversion using a porsche body. Heres that link as well http://www.veva.bc.ca  Also word of caution to Jerkey. most welders will partly fill the tank with water as an added precaution even if they are using "non" sparking means. to cut open the tank

[jerkey]

i am about to do this, and i have removed all the gas I could but there is still a tiny slosh.  Even if there weren't a slosh, the fumes are more dangerous than the liquid, because they mix with air.  Gasoline is the most dangerous fume because it has the widest range of flammability mixed with air of any flammable vapor.

So I will be opening my gas tank with non-sparking means, like a drill, hand tools, and a metal shears (like big pliers but with stubby scissors at the end).  Then once I get the whole thing open, i can let it air out for a few days - or toss a match in to speed up the process.

How did you determine your gearing ratio for the motor?

[Stryker]

Good luck with the tank, I just flushed my out enough times until I couldn't smell gas and I lived.   Anyway I used what some other people did for the gearing and ending up using my second sprocket.

[TheWerx]

 Just a tip for those working on a gas tank. Filling it completely with water forces all gas fumes out of the tank (fumes are forced out as water displaces them). Your tank is now safe to weld and/or grind!

[tetsuxxx]

one word for you..
WOW..

[KnexFreek]

Best looking electric bike i have ever seen! And ive seen thousands upon thousands of them across the web. You must be one hell of a builder. 

Nice freaking job! WOW!

[edfel01]

awesome really wish i could make one

[aaronjehall]

best looking electric conversion bike i've ever seen! well done!

[Stryker]

Thanks, you made my day. 

[bradley.jarvis]

Hi,  I'm converting a Suzuki GS250F Across (I live in Australia). I chose this bike because it is fully fared and the fuel tank live under the seat and is not a part of the body work. I has now been completely removed without any visual impact to the bike and the space where it was will now house the charger and a few batteries (can get to this space by taking the seat off with the ignition key). The place where the petrol tank normally is is a storage compartment that is big enough to fit a spare helmet (I will keep it as storage). I will be modifying the engine cradle to take the battery pack.

[thalass]

This is brilliant. I've decided to do a bike EV conversion, after quite a while researching car vs bike, etc. It's good that you can get 70mph out of 72v, that keeps your options open - I firmly beleive that if you can't do the speed limit you shouldn't be driving on that road.

How does it perform off the line? I wouldn't expect it to be like Killacycle, but not being run over when lane-splitting at the traffic lights would be nice hahaha.

[Edvahass]

Hi,

How's this thing doing in the cold (like -20 degrees celsius)?
What batteries would you reccomend for a vehicle that should be able to drive in such temperatures?

Thanks in advance!

[Stryker]

It's doing fine sitting in my garage...... I would never ride a bike in that weather and I wouldn't know what batteries to use for that application.  Sorry but you better check with a battery dealer.

[gggiiilllbbbeeerrrttt]

where do you find some old motorcyles?
and your motorcyle was great

[eyeguy6]

Great bike. What's the top speed, cruising speed and range between recharging? I'd like to build one, but need 100+ mile range.

[Stryker]

Top speed is around 70mph, cruising speed is whatever the posted speed limits of the road are. Range is the killer it's about 10 miles from a full charge. I don't think you will see 100+ mile range for quite some time.

[newdadfor6]

hey I like the bike but u wouldnt happen to have a set of plans for a SOLAR POWERED WHOOPING STICK,my ole lady's getting to bossy PS a self detonating HOOVER DELUXE might help me,nope not close enough to HALLOWEEN.nice job on the bike.

[sirscotty74]

Glad I came across this site. There really is hope. How much does the motor weigh?

[Stryker]

72V Advanced DC AC4-4002 10”x 6.7” 47 Lbs from thunderstruck-ev.com

[tcase]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever thought about a good generator, like off of a car or something?

[Grey_Wolfe]

Car alternators really aren't all that good. There are better options, though with something like this, one might like to go custom. Maybe use permanent magnets instead of coils, that also would aid in battery life. That's kinda intentional though, like the 18% fuel efficiency they have so you have to buy more gas and your engine wears out sooner.

[tcase]

Thanks, thats very interesting, My father in law brought up a diesel engine alternator, or simply deal with gasoline...lol... he's been a mechanic for years, sometimes an annoying one that likes throwing wrenches at customers who try to tell him how to do his job, but a good mechanic. He likes the idea of saving money for gasoline by other alternatives, solar power or if you have a creek on your property build a wheel like the old days, I forget what its called, but putting a generator on that to make electricity. anywhere you save money can help. then just dish out the money for gasoline at the pump. I kind of fancied the air compression engine actually, going to try that someday... still takes money though. take care and great Instructable.

[Grey_Wolfe]

I read something about a hydrolic compression engine once. Done by a University class (maybe University of AZ, not sure). It used a combustion engine, but instead of driving the car with it, they used it to build up hydro pressure, then use the pressure to drive the car. Could get up to speed reasonably, and stored breaking energy to allow smooth take off from stops. That would probably fit the same principle as your air compression idea, at least for design purposes. Got like 80 miles to the gallon. The wheel you spoke of is simply called a water wheel, though there might be another (more proper) term.

[MrRodrigez]

 I think you refer to Hydroelectric power :D

[Grey_Wolfe]

No, it was driven by hydrolic pressure, not electric motors. I'll ask my dad if he remembers the University that did it and post more info.

Sorry about the late reply, been away from the site for awhile.

[MrRodrigez]

 Lol i meant when you said this: 

"The wheel you spoke of is simply called a water wheel, though there might be another (more proper) term.

but yeah, the type of engine you spoke of originally has actually been produced, and soon is supposed to be commercially made, although it's actually a pneumatic engine that refills it's tanks when plugged in. :D sounds pretty sweet to me

[vernonstien]

I think I saw an article in Machine Design magazine a while back about using hydraulic motors to drive wheels, one motor per wheel. it is possible to use a gas motor to drive hydraulic pumps to produce power, dump truck, garbage truck. bull dozer, ect. ect........

[tcase]

Thats cool, I think my biggest problem is having something that goes the distance for an electric... you get on a motorcycle today, and its like, you can refill anywhere_{, yea, you can plug your bike into plugs at grociery stores, but to me, according to one person, he plugs his car in at the light poles in parking lots.. like walmart. to me, thats still stealing, even though it is available... I want to find a way to build an electric motorcycle, ( Im a fan of the sportster models )} it still look good, and be constantly recharging while driving.. kind of like having an alternator from a big truck similiar to a dump truck or semi. Im not sure on how to put all that together considering I have nothing to use to start experimenting yet... I have to wait to buy a house before I can start tinkering_{, thanks for the last comment} It sounds like it would come in handy... or at least experiment with.. My uncle works with a backhoe at work _{they have alot of parts just laying around I might be able to pick up for a few dollars for alot of their heavy machines... but I dont think I need to build a tank}, even though it sounds like fun...thanks again..

[Grey_Wolfe]

Nyx is pretty accurate, you can't receive a net gain in power while using the same type of energy to drive the vehicle.

You would need an external source of energy input into the system while driving.

It would be possible with large scale technology similar to the proximity charging devices we have recently developed for small electronics. But the cost to create such tech on a large enough scale to charge while on roadways is not feasible at this time.

[Nyxius]

Using your alternator to charge your batteries while you drive will only kill your batteries faster. alternators have maybe 50% eff. converting kinetic energy to electric. but the full load is being introduced to your electric motors. Thus you may be getting a couple watt charge out of it, but it will consume far more than that in the extra juice needed to power the motor.

[swander]

using an alternator while braking would regenerate otherwise wasted momentum. Make a switch into your brake lever that activates or "turns on" your alternator that would otherwise be free wheeling, making no power with minimal drag. When you turn it on, you can regulate the amount of "exciter" voltage and the amount of drag the alternator will be putting on the freewheeling wheel. more braking. more drag, like a jake brake in a truck. Wont use it all the time only when it is safe like on a downgrade or slowing for a light.

[J-Ri]

Why add an additional part? The motor can be used as a generator if regenerative braking is desired.

[swander]

Because you can regulate an alternator easier than a generator. also alternators have better low RPM efficiency. Regulate with input voltage or variable ground, your choice.

[J-Ri]

I do agree that it is easier to regulate an alternator, but only slightly. An N-channel MOSFET connected to ground would use the same PWM as an alternator's field terminal. Many alternators use a 12v (or 24v) field signal, and some provide the current for the field coil as well, either of those cases would require a transistor anyway.

Could you provide me a link to some documentation that says an alternator has better low RPM efficiency? My research in wind turbines suggested that at best, alternators and generators have the same efficiency at low speeds, and most seemed to agree that generators are better at low RPM.

A transistor controlled ground is one more part, and a much cheaper, easier, smaller and lighter one to install than an alternator. I suspect it would also be difficult to find an alternator that can output this kind of voltage. Many have a fixed regulator that won't allow excess voltage in the event that the computer controlled one malfunctions and full-fields, and even one without that protection probably isn't built to output this voltage and may fail prematurely. Even on a car where the alternator is typically driven at approximately 3-5 times faster than the crankshaft, the voltage will drop to below the desired charge voltage with only a few amps drawn at idle 500-1100 RPM (1500 to 5500 RPM at the alternator). So that alternator designed to output 12 or 24 volts would have to be geared up considerably, further adding weight and frictional losses from the gears. An additional load on the motor would require more power from the motor to spin it up to speed. Try spinning one by hand, the rotational mass alone would take considerable power to get moving, especially with the gearing required to spin it fast enough to make this high a voltage.

[swander]

simply going by what the car industry did back in 1965 when some went to alternators instead of generators for better low speed charging ability. Now stepping these up to 72 volts is out of my pay grade. efficiency between 50-62% is typical of an automotive alternator, they are cheaper, lighter and are more durable with low current slip ring brushed instead of full voltage DC brush design. 1200-1800 RPM is generally idle speed in a automotive alternator, and they are in almost unlimited supply in varying amperage output from small 30A tractor units to 240A modern car units. Cheap is good.

[J-Ri]

The primary reason they switched is that alternators are smaller and lighter for the same output, but we already have a dc generator (the motor) on this bike. The rated amperage is only short term (but likely acceptable for use as a regenerative brake), for sustained output, they have a maximum of half their rated value. And the higher amperage ones are huge, a 180A alternator from an F-350 is larger than the motor used on this bike and weighs 20 pounds (a guess).

[Nyxius]

If you are insistent on regenerative braking (using the motor), may I suggest using a brush-less motor coupled with some super caps. Batteries don't like the sudden spikes in voltage that regenerative braking gives. You need a way to smooth that out over time, or your going to kill your batteries. Regenerative braking is essentially a collapsing magnetic field with an inductive coupler (rate of field collapse is motor dependent). Without something to buffer your batteries, your electrodes in the battery will start to breakdown (beyond what is normal) and will probably cause a breakdown in your electrolytic material as well. This generally results in electrolytic gassification. This is why liquid capacitors burst and this is the reason they say to not overcharge batteries.
Also, regenerative charging using a brushless will most likely require a weird bridge rectifier (3 phase+) with a negative feedback loop.

[schenoweth]

You did a great job, what is the range? Man, that bums me out knowing a few months ago i had an old motorcyle melted down. Great work!

[Stryker]

The range is 10-15 miles per charge depending on how your ride it. Hills, rider weight, acceleration, all factor into distance. Fortunately I only have 3 miles to get to work so it's no problem.

[xACIDITYx]

Is there any way to boost the range?

[Stryker]

Yes, if you changed the gearing or put in more/larger batteries you could boost the range. I have it setup for speed and a clean look so I had to sacrifice range.

[nadeem014]

can i just use a low amp controller to increase the range sacrificing top speed.I am not much of speed junky and have to travel long distance.

[xACIDITYx]

Oh, I see.

[bennelson]

My electric motorcycle has almost the exact same range - top speed is slower though. My office, grocery store, post office, and library are all 2 to 3 miles away, so it works great. Stryker, check out Ecomodder.com. We would love to have you stop in and say hello! and brag about your bike a bit. There is a "fossil fuel free" section that covers EVs.

[Mr. Rig It]

You go to the grocery store on your motorcycle? :-)

[bennelson]

Seems like I always run out of one thing or another. A few grocery items fit fine in a backpack or saddlebags.

For anyone really interested in converting a cycle, check out http://www.21wheels.com/elninja.html
The "EL Ninja" plans are actually pretty useful and there are some other handy resources on that site as well.

[MACKattacksnipe]

very nice job

[lentobensa]

cutting gas tank with anything that creates sparks is extremely dangerous. Even after thorough flushing and ventilating there can be enough fumes to make a bang.
I have read about filling the tank with water before welding can't confirm if that is practical/safe.

[JoeAnne10]

Well in order to make something like this you need time and money. It is really easy to do it, or at least that's how it seems, now that I have read your entire post. Maybe one day I will consider doing something like this for myself, especially because I work in this field at the moment, creating motorcycle saddlebags

[dawgz031]

ey......nice work...i really like your work....im just wondering....can i use a battery used in helicopter??

i mean the real ones.....they dispose it when it have reached its flying hours....then may be we can use it...its really heavy...but it has lots of juice in it....i just forgot their voltage and amperage......its been a long time since i have cleaned one when i was a trainee.....

so...what do you think??

[Stryker]

I would say use that in a car.  Motorcycles have limited space and you want lighter batteries not heavier.  I think the only way to go with bikes is Lithium or something like that.

[malangjata]

Hello star can i go on making my own charger by using a transformer of 74 volt and then rectifying it in a bridge circuit to 72v dc output without causing problem to my batteries?
Thankz

[malangjata]

Hello Star,
       I am just beginner in this research to build electric motorcycle and a self rechargeable if support met our our aims and ambition.My Malang Jatta a Gambian.I find it very difficult to my mine till now searching for fund and additional research i made through library and in internet.I need your advance and support.
From Malang Jatta (Dipl.Electrical Engineer)
I hope to hear from you.

[bujjibush]

Hi there, What was the Ah capacity marked on the batteries u got? What was the rated RPM and wattage of the motor ?

[Stryker]

My original batteries Ah was 41 but I have since bought 6 more and for some reason Optima lowered the Ah to 38 for the same model. It has caused me some problems. I don't remember the RPM or wattage of the motor but you can try to look it up. 72V Advanced DC AC4-4002 10”x 6.7” 47 Lbs from thunderstruck-ev.com

[gwean]

Hi guys.....I'm very new to this EV thing but just curious - where is the clutch or transmission ? I guess that the power from this system is much less compare to the one people use in electric car ..... so a plain controller is just fine . Thanks in advance ...

[kagenin]

A transmission is required if you want different gear ratios. A clutch is used to transition between different gear ratios. This bike only has, and really only needs, one gear. You could conceivably add a gearbox to this sort of project, which could a) play with the acceleration curve (although many charge controllers can do this directly with the throttle) b) increase (or fine tune) the maximum cruising speed (at the expense of range) It's not impossible to add a simple 2 or 3 gear system into an electric vehicle - maybe have high torque/low speed gear for off-road, a normal cruising gear, and max-speed gear for freeway driving - but it certainly isn't easy, and can introduce a lot of complications to a design.

[Stryker]

I still think a CVT would help, but I'm no engineer.

[kagenin]

I'm no engineer either, but I've always been fascinated with Continually Variable Transmissions. It seems like pairing a CVT with an electric motor would help smooth out low-end acceleration while still providing you with a good balance between top speed and max range. The main issues I'd see would be any added weight to the design, as well as cost. Compared to the cost (and weight) of an extra battery, I'm not sure what's more economical.

[Metteyya]

So what was the "total" cost in components used to make bike electric?

[DIY Dave]

"All in all, it cost about $3000 to buy and build. " step 1

[Stryker]

Thanks Dave.

[ElvenChild]

If you don't have a welding torch I suggest you buy a mini one at http://www.stealstreet.com/product_p/ss-1321.htm

[kalabog76]

I have a question, how about using a smaller engine (gas) to drive an alternator, and use the alternator to charge the battery, and/or run an electric motor? this way your charger (the small engine) just have to charge the batteries and just runs idle (or just what RPM is needed to charge the batts). What do you guys think??

[montubob]

Would really like the opportunity to speak to you regarding your project...I own a publicly traded company that has several prototype electric vehicles in testing, and several others on the drawing board...let me know if there is a way for us to discuss what you are doing...and what you plan to [e-mail]...thanks, Bob

[Stryker]

Does this sound shady to anyone else or is it just me.

[Spaceman Spiff]

A little bit. If he wants to hire you on to something wouldn't he have sent you a private email? And it appears he joined instructables the same day he posted that comment. There's a few shady flags going off in my head, but you never know.

[Zem]

Nice job, I love when people make it look like its supposed to be electric.

[thelame1]

There's a company in the US now selling lithium polymer batteries for electric vehicles and motorcycles. Technology that was only in hands of US military until recently. One big drawback of li-po batteries is that they can go boom if they overheat. Also battery packs still quite expensive. Hopefully they will come down in price.

[Stryker]

Got a link?

[ridejb99]

any plans for battery upgrades?

[Stryker]

Last time I looked it was still too expensive.

[thapropguy]

Whats the minimum amount of HP you would need? Or is there a certain gear ratio that you can do to get a lot of torque?

[ctrlaltdelete]

how do you put it into reverse without the gearing? just twist the handle the other way round?

[vukko]

why on earth would you want reverse? Motorcyclists push their bikes backwards ;)

[Stryker]

I don't have reverse but you would have to reverse the wires to the motor with a switch of some kind. There is a throttle on some commercial bikes that does regenerative braking when you twist the throttle backwards.

[kiffer360]

this is completely unrelated, but have you people herd about the eestor capacitor? I just herd about it, and it looks amazing. just type in eestor in google, and no, I am not trying to sell anything.

[msee]

Super/Ultra-caps or similar forms of chemical double-layer capacitors have been around for close to three decades. They HAVE improved quite a bit over that time period and they are VERY useful in certain applications. Fast charge and discharge are some of the more recent developments which are ideal for capturing the energy from dynamic braking (something batteries don't usually like to do). Unfortunately I haven't seen any PRACTICAL devices that have an energy storage density close to that of current battery technologies. These capacitors can amend a battery pack, but cannot REPLACE one. The eestor numbers look really good (almost too good) on paper. Has ANYONE seen a real device demonstrated since the press announcement in Jan 2007? I doubt it. I'll gladly embrace any new technology that will make electric vehicles more practical, but I'm also skeptical of "magic bullet" solutions which sound too good to be true.

[sockeye101]

i have been skimming over the wikipedia page and the technology looks do-able, but it would be extremely difficult to get the bugs out of the chemical process, so that's why eestor has been taking so long to come out with a prototype.

[countable]

It could work, you know. If you had a few in series with a massive resistor, then it would slow the rate of discharge (although by how much i guess depends on the resistor and draw current)

[kiffer360]

Yeaha, i just wanted to throw that out there and ess what everypne thought about it. At first, i was kind of skeptical, but the fact that Lockheed has interest in it lends it credibility. But it does look to good to be true on paper. I will probably folow this and see where tests go.

[zmarlow]

Yeah, it seems to be something that is in development. We'll know if they're full of crap pretty soon though. It looks solid, however. Zenn Motor Company is putting up a lot of capital to get the EEstor unit up and running.

[gregmosercts]

VERY cool project! I wish I had a garage that I can tinker like this! My only comment... Cutting a gas tank. I've seen this statement many times in many conversions. Do people understand about fuel vapors and how explosive they are? Just emptying the gas tank doesn't get the fuel out. Drag out the cut off wheel to hack it open and you're bound to get a face full of flame. Please use EXTREME caution when cutting into a gas tank!

[countable]

What you should do before cutting any flammable container open is fill it to the brim with water for 24 hours, which gets out all the flammable material which may have leached into the metal over the years.

[caofficeabhijit]

have u used old gearbox, if not why not? will increase speed ?

[Stryker]

I thought it would be a good idea but have read a few things about efficiency vs added weight. You should try it and find out for yourself.

[Silence]

Just a few questions to get off my mind. Whats the avg current draw while cruising with this configuration ? obviously peak draw is limited by the controller.

[Stryker]

I don't know.

[caofficeabhijit]

What is the use of shunt 50MV ? how does it functioned How to connect 'Albreight Contactor'? Is there a Single 72V battry available in market? can i use the same?

[Stryker]

The shunt allows you to tap off a small amount of power for other components. To connect the albright just follow picture from above. I think there is a 72V battery but it's super expensive.

[MaltiK]

If I want to avoid welding completely, which motorcycle chassis should I work with. Can anyone answer me who has experience?

[Squeezmo]

Don't diss parallel battery ops. Parallel is good when you need quick current flows.... ie acceleration.... but wastes a lot of chemical energy becauase all cells are at the same pot... when one fails they all reverse or whatever. There's more energy to use in other cells but it's not available. Series helps suck the cells dry (ie: range). I was on an electric vehicle that wired both ways. Electric Submarine with two motors. We'd flip the armatures between series for acceleration and parallel for efficiency.

[peter57733]

I was surfing around on the net looking for electric motorcycles and stumbled across your conversion, (and several others) but yours was inspiring to me so much so that I am in the process of getting together all the items needed a donor bike first I am trying to get a relatively nice one but I would rather hack up a running ducatti or something like that just for the shear statement of it all (I can take the heat) but can't afford to purchase and kill/ and resurrect the machine to a new life. I see a lot of people going lead acid or LIFP04 but not NIMH? I am wondering why? the hybrid cars seem to get along well with packs designed to last up to 10 years, have you heard anything? so you say you can get your bike going up to 70 mph? it appears you have not changed the sprockets out to like a 72 tooth in the back or 4:1 ratio is there a reason?

[wow-amazing]

Lead acid bateries are cheap. Yes, they aren't the greatest, but they are affordable. NiMH and Li-po are just about the best batteries around, but they'll rip you wallet out of your fingers for cost.

[Pink_wolf]

"NiMH and Li-po are just about the best batteries around" - yeh, but they do like to explode on you if you pierce them (like a bike crash?) or charge them wrong.

[wow-amazing]

If you overcharge them with way to much current (amps), Lipo-s can explode, but with current chargers, it would take all three stooges to do that. And I haven't heard about them exploding if you pierce them. The standard procedure with rc lipo's, if they overheat (which might cause an explosion), is to poke a hole in 'em and soak 'em in water. I do see your concern, where a battery was, popped, I guess, after a hard ride in a crash, exploding batteries would lessen your chances of survival, but then again, chances of surviving a bike crash aren't all that high to begin with... Anyway, they're still expensive.

[Pink_wolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiK2Ps8opj4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vdOC8dN3_I check the videos its nasty when those things get penetrated. Also it depends on what type of crash, my point being ive survived 3 bad crashes where my vehicle has been written off (2 of which where CAR drivers faults...you know, not that im bitter or twisted against cars or anything :P). But i recon with a lot of lipos in a close space with a hard crack on one of the cells and youve got a bomb :\. The LIFEPO4 batteries stood up to penetration, over charging and temperature abuse MUCH better than all standard lipo types.

[peter57733]

Yes I was finding That out about the above mentioned batteries but I think I have found a way around the Nimh problem of cost. I will let everyone know as soon as I get mine and the Idea works.

[briansterling]

Is there a difference in having TWELVE 6volt batteries and SIX 12volt batteries?

[Stryker]

Yeah about 6 batteries....... Actually I don't think there would be. Of course more connections/wire but as long as you have one charger for all it doesn't seem to be a big deal to me.

[dbeki]

hey, i don't know too much about motors but is it possible to create a hybrid electric motor and a back up gas to increase your mileage range or would you run out of space in the motorcycle?

[zeeb6]

I have an electric-gas Hybrid mountain tandum bicycle belt drive 40cc gas on the rear,36volt hub motor on the frt also makes it 2WD average 25 to 30 MPH About 140 MPG ,needs no inc or reg or lic

[dansoffdawall]

Do you think it is possible to make a sportster like this?

[JZ Price]

i have a quick question, how does this work out with the rain?

[NewMoonDragon]

This and other bikes i've looked at on this site are sweet. I've been lookin to do this my self but am no brain at things mechanical or electrical lol. Just thought id though this out for help to others lookin for help n hints. i found this book on amazon.com but it hasn't been released yet. "Build Your Own Electric Motorcycle (Tab Green Guru Guides) (Paperback) by Carl Vogel (Author)." One day hope to have my bike on here

[mr.sparkle]

im trying to put together a drag bike over here in england instead of my gsxr1340 nos bike.range is not important any ideas on dc motors controllers ect hoping to run around eight sec i will build my own frame so motor /battery size not important thanks

[synthz]

This is a great instructable and definitely something that I'd like to take on some day. I do have some questions about the batteries that I'm hoping someone might answer. If you were to go with Li-ion batteries do you have to go with larger ones or use a bunch of smaller ones, like 3.5v? Is it the larger size that would allow longer range? I know that lead batters used for this are rated as deep cycle but is that also the same for Li-ion batteries?

[jb2]

What are your thoughts on side cars? they'll add more drag, friction (extra wheel) and weight, But you'll have a lot more space to store extra batteries.

[spanner4745]

hi i really like this idea and i will try and source the componants needed for this project!! on the subject of danger when cutting fuel tanks, you could try this method that ive seen on scrambers that have ripped a gash in the tank, and are needed for the next race!! empty all the contents out and attach a hose from an exhaust car or bike, and fill it with carbon monoxide and cut away as nothing can burn with out oxygen and you have replaced this with ya fumes ya put in ! this practice ive seen done and gashes made by rocks etc welded in the pits for next race!! hope it helps !

[jb2]

yeah, I've been looking into going electric, and the more I look at batteries, the more I'm convinced they SUCK. sure electric motors are more efficient than combustion engines, but the fuel sources are no match. I'm waiting for them to come up with a better source of stored energy, like betavoltaic batteries or something. so I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for a breakthrough soon.

[Lance Mt.]

They do.. its just they're not somethign you'd pick up locally and throw in a bike with cash to spare

[Yerboogieman]

Just work on it.

[Stryker]

I love a good sidecar, but I think the extra weight might counter the extra distance gained from the batteries. The only way to go is better/lighter batteries. I'm just waiting for LiFePo to get affordable.

[candle360]

beautiful, what bike is that, a ninja 250? it would be great to do a similar project but run 8 batteries instead, getting about 116 volts, and gear it to go a top speed of about 110-115. and use a non-running honda CBR

[Stryker]

It was a 1984 honda intercepter 700. More batteries would be great but fitting them all in is hard.

[mattias law]

that looks really good. well done how long does it take to charge?

[logoris]

is the dc-dc step down actually needed, and what is it actually used for?

[Stryker]

Not really. I'm using it in place of the original bikes 12V battery to save space and charging another battery.

[logoris]

o ok kool

[ezlife]

Why couldn't you attach an alternator to the wheel? I have seen this done on an old harley (with gas engine).

[Stryker]

You lose more than you gain. Check some other peoples comments on this idea.

[prabbit22m]

Great job on the build. Brushless motors are really developing these days. They are basically AC motors but the Remote Control industry is making speed controlers that use DC and pulse it around the coils in the motor can to produce an AC type atmospere. These motors are very efficient and much more powerful. Of course they're expensive but some day they'll be cheaper and your bike with everything the same except the motor and controller will be a lot faster and have double the range.

[ColumbusGEEK]

This is a rather silly question.....I know this....but can it pull wheelies?

[Splortched]

A better question would be:

"Can I pull a wheelie on this bike?"

[Foxtrot70]

Hmm...Amazing what can be done with silicon these days...LOL!

[peter57733]

is it real or is it memorex?

[ColumbusGEEK]

ha! Probably not since I have less skills then him. The thought of all that weight squishing my tired old bones in a wheelie disaster is distressing as well. :)

[Stryker]

I haven't been able to, but I'm not that good of a rider. It's pretty heavy with all of those batteries in there.

[Petebob]

Nice ible Just wondered if the batteries seem to affect the balance of the bike and with the weight shifted, does it brake more fiercely?

[Stryker]

The bike didn't run when I got it so I can't say for sure about the braking, but as far as I can tell the weight is balanced perfectly. It rides and brakes very smoothly.

[spmehta]

Sir Its good, But dont drift creative forum into un necessary discussion like noise of MB Siddharth

[magickat]

This is cool, but... you live 3 miles from your job?! You could walk, ride a bicycle, or take the bus. My job is only 2.7 miles from where I live. I take the bus since I'm right at a busline but when the weather's nice, I walk. I walked in snow before (not fun) but I might just start walking all year round (exercise, yay!).

[FaqMan]

Ya snow is a major hasle to walk in but it helps build up muscles in the calf muscles.
_{^{Also the ible is pretty cool}}

[grantdevine]

This is a great idea but is it possible to lower the bikes top speed to 40-45 mph and get a better milage?

[Stryker]

Yes if I changed the gearing it would go slower but farther.

[HADJISTYLLIS]

Can i use the battery from the instructable <<12 Volt Battery Hack! You'll be Surprised...>>? Its very lite!

[nfsaggese]

A little to exspensive for the range. Nice speed though.

[Stryker]

Thanks I just couldn't build a real bike that only had moped speeds. As soon as batteries get better my range will too.

[nfsaggese]

true, very true

[Ronald100]

I noticed your using direct drive from the motor, no gear box, I know it's not required but would a gear box help on mileage

[Stryker]

I feel like it would, but people that seem to know more than me talk about motor efficiencies and weight of gearboxes etc making it now worth it. I am still on the fence however about putting a CVT into my next one with a belt drive.

[capridrifter]

Is there a way to make a Hybrid bike possibly Bio-diesel / electric by converting the fuel into electric energy to then power the bike down the motorway? you could use a SMALL engine possibly some sort of lawn mower or weed whacker to turn the generator? would be fun to try:) I can't as I really have no money for bigger projects like this one.

[msee]

EVERY energy conversion step increases energy loss, complexity, and COST! A small, lightweight, efficient, bio-diesel engine (that has to be an oxymoron!), motor-generator, and battery system would do what you want, but it would be cutting edge tech and VERY expensive. Some type of fuel-cell system would also fall into this category. IMHO, Stryker's project is a wonderful starting point for anyone serious about electric vehicle construction. Things like weight reduction, a higher efficiency motor, and new battery tech are incremental updates which could be made later when time and resources are available. These changes could possibly increase the current range by a factor of 2 to 4. Designing and building an electric motorcycle from the ground up is the best approach and will give you some very impressive performance numbers. This level of design and construction is usually far beyond what can be done as a home-project. Unfortunately, the small number of these true E-bikes that are currently available are priced to cover their high development costs as well as their cutting edge tech. Until those costs come down to earth, home conversions like Stryker's are your best bet.

[capridrifter]

You have a really good point there I guess, I was thinking of how the railroad has the hybrids, and how it could possibly used to increase range....How about using the small engine as a back up for when you lose power? It would be nice to me able to actually travel on an electric bike without the fear of getting stranded;)(100's of miles) I think from a city living point of view Strikers bike is the best so far.

[kurt168146]

Hello, I have been researching how to convert my bike, and have found that there are a few companies out there already selling kits, and out-the-box cycles but with 48 volts for power, but their range is almost double of what yours is. I saw your sample about volts vs.. ah and realize there is a trade off, but I am curious to know why you can't get both. Are there no Batteries available to produce a good 30 miles a charge and still get you up to 70 mph. for the highway? Thanks

[Stryker]

There are better batteries out there but I can't afford them right now. Do a search on LifePo and get out your check book. Also my bike is probably a lot heavier then some of those 48V scooters getting better range.

[ozetzioni]

Hey, I am building a pedal generator bike with a battery. at the end of the day i want to transfer the electricity i made of riding into a bigger battery and then use it for lighting equipment... anyone knows of a method to transfer the electricity from one battery to a bigger one without losing voltage or too much energy???

[Jamiecrazy2005]

Why is it that most think a transmission wouldn't be efficient on an ev motorcycle yes it is true that electric motors have almost constant torque and can reach very high rpms but i think that is one of the problems with getting any form of mileage out of ev motorcycles. To go faster u run the motor at a higher amp rating sucking more juice from the batteries. Using a tranny will allow u to run the motor at a low amp rate at higher speeds using less juice form the batteries. this would also save on motor life and overheating at high motor rpms. Electric motors due have a tendency to overheat and melt electrical components.

[andrewl10]

I understand what you mean, but there's also a down side to that. A transmission is just one more thing loading down the motor, so you will still end up sucking some decent amps out of your battery, even at cruising speed. A good thing to remember when doing a conversion is Amps=Torque and Volts=Speed. Direct drive like this is something better suited for motorcycles, but not cars. (Kind of off topic, I know)

[dillweed2]

The only benefit of a trans would be that it would cut the speed of the motor. The trans would also be extra weight and require more energy to overcome the drag from turning a trans (bearings and gear lube). Electric motors are not like a gasoline that requires more fuel at higher speeds. The electric motor will run at a slower speed with a trans, but will require the same amount of electricity as without a trans, plus the drag of the trans for a net loss.

[Stryker]

I was thinking about a variable speed pulley system for my next bike. The weight wouldn't be that much. If the amount of electricity used was the same wouldn't I get better starting power and top end speed?

[msee]

Full electric motor Torque can be available from 0 RPM up to rated speed, which is GREAT for EV's. Horsepower by definition is RPM x Torque, so peak HP is not available "off the line". If properly designed, top speed should be limited by resistance loss and drag. A typical motorcycle and rider going 60-70 mph will need about 5 horsepower to maintain that speed on level ground. Drag is dependent on velocity-squared, so 10 horsepower should be able to get a motorcycle and rider up to 85-100 mph. Let's assume a vehicle is designed to reach top speed at peak HP at peak motor RPM. A transmission would provide a better "holeshot". If you are designing a DRAG bike, I think you should definitely add a transmission. If you are trying for highest efficiency and longest range, I don't see how a transmission will really help.

[dillweed2]

The reason a trans (or variable speed pulley) is used for gas engines is because the engine develops different power and torque at different RPMS. An engineer designs a vehicle to accelerate at a reasonable speed, have a certain top speed, and use a certain amount of fuel. An dc electric motor is different because it develops power / torque equally at all RPMS. When designing the system, you don't want to exceed the max speed of the motor, but other than that it will require more electricity to move the added weight and overcome the added resistance of any belts, pulley, trans, etc.

[hawkeyejr]

Did any one happen to think how much more efficient this "motor" cycle would be if the drive motor were installed where the engine crankshaft was and the clutch and transmission were retained. just a thought from some one who likes to take longer faster trips,and why not add(retain)the alternator,and recharge those batteries,when there's no load?

[Silence]

Alternator would hit the performance of the bike, whole thermodynamics thing i wont start on. For a variable speed motor, you dont really need a transmission since electric motors have pretty much constant torque and can reach very high RPM. Its optional but in the end it comes down to extra weight, valuable space and batery life.

[wraithsqaud]

depending on the skill level of the builder and how low you are trying to keep the weight regenerative breaking could be added to recover some of the energy normally lost in stop and go kind of driving. it might be a bit complex to incorporate into a bike

[fearblind]

I was curious what your range is on your battery from fully charged to completely dead?

[Stryker]

Check out my site for more details, but about 12 miles when the batteries where new.

[fearblind]

I actually ment the charge of the battery! I should have been more specific I am sorry... but curious at what voltage the battery is fully charged and what voltage you set the indicator to show dead? I am looking to build an electric motorcycle completely from scratch with custom frame etc and want to get an idea of the range of a battery cell's ability to move the bike effectively and what voltages you used to set your F and E on the "fuel" gage if you will :)

[msee]

fearblind...suggest you research this site for details on batteries. Slightly out of date, but still useful.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-35.htm

[msee]

THANKS for posting your project for all to see ! ;-) VERY nice conversion job. Even LOOKS like a real motorcycle! With the components you listed, calculations suggest you should be getting close to a 40 mile range. You stated only 10 miles between charges. Is that correct?

[Stryker]

It was over 10 when I first got the batteries, but since then they are taking less charge. I don't know what kind of calculations you did but I can assure you it doesn't go farther than 10 miles. I've been researching Lithium batteries which will make a great improvement. But until prices come down it's just not going to happen.

[msee]

Understood. My calculations were based on the full size batteries and generous efficiency estimates. My work commute is a 30 mile round trip, so I would attempt to build something similar if it could get 40 miles to a charge. The newest Lithium technology is really nice, but the cost is still way too high.

[wonderbro]

For everyone who wants to make an electric motorcycle visit electricmotorsport.com it has all the parts that you will need for this project.

[SKINZ]

it looks mint youve done a brillent job can you ride it on the road without a licence

[Stryker]

No you need a motorcycle license to ride this. It goes 70mph so you can't get away with saying its a moped or something like that.

[jeff-o]

Very nice work. I'm curious, did you price out NiMH or Lithium batteries? Obviously they would both be significantly more expensive, but with a longer runtime (ie. greater range). Also, was the inspection all you needed to get this bike declared street legal and insurable?

[Stryker]

I have been researching Lithium Polymer batteries for my next bike. They are very expensive but are so much lighter and last longer. So with the decrease in weight and recharging cycle life they might just pay off. Eventually... As for inspection I just took it to the local Honda dealer and they did everything as normal except emissions of course. :-) I think insurance classified it as a normal bike, but I'd have to check on that again.

[ramedia]

Keep an eye on Toshiba's SCIB batteries. They supposedly recharge in 5 minutes. This would be a big boon to electric bike builders and solve some of the range issues. These batteries were supposed to come out in March of this year according to the press release last dec., but I haven't seen them.

[M-26-7]

Those things sound awesome, but from what I hear Toshiba's only giving them to companies, like ones making hybrid cars, you might be able to fenagle one or two out of them, but the cost would more than likely be completely inhibitive of any actual purchase.

[DjProToJeeX]

ya id like to hear what insurance gives for if any difference for a EVB

[Stryker]

I just looked it up and I have a regular motorcycle policy but only liability, no collision coverage.

[DjProToJeeX]

nice. I have a '05 gsx r1300 we are gutting for the hayabusa engine for a project car we are working on. I think instead of selling the frame i might make one of these. Just to see how it would turn out.

[beff50]

why don't you add an alternator or something. if you have the money then a similar motor to recharge the batteries. then it would increase the rand buy a lot, despite how heavy it is.

[uglymike]

The biggest problem with that idea is you can only charge a battery when it is not discharging (you can't have voltage flowing both ways) so it won't charge while your accelerating or cruising. If you're running a brushless motor you can use a motor-controller with regenerative braking. This is the option used in electric and hybrid cars. Unfortunately a regen-braking does put force back on the motor and slows the bike (as opposed to coasting). The mass of the car works great for utilizing regen, but it slows the lighter bike considerably, greatly reducing it's efficiency. More careful and conscientious driving habits offer greater improvements in range than regenerative controllers on light vehicles like this. One thing you could do that is similar is to run a simple 1/2 wave alternator with a regulator/rectifier and small 12volt battery instead of a DC to DC converter. It would cost considerably less, but the engineering involved makes the investment in the converter very appealing.

[Phiber_Optik]

Sorry, this won't work...it's the whole perpetual motion thing. The bike will use more electricity to power the alternator than it will return to the batteries. An alternator (generator) would work only if engaged as regenerative down hill.

[misemono]

could you put 2 small generators with armatures that spin from pressing against the wheels (kinda like those little gens that power a bicycle light) on each tire, so they can put some charge back into the batteries? Yeah, it would be a perpetual motion thing, but would it put enough charge into the batteries to give you a few more miles?

[dillweed2]

No. None. Nada. The drag or resistance to run the little generators will require the motor to work harder and use more electricity. When used on a bicycle, the rider provides the extra energy needed to run the generators. A car engine requires a more fuel to run the alternator. Only a regenerative system will change forward motion of the bike back into electricity, but as mentioned by others, being able to coast will give you more range.

[beff50]

im sure it would. but i realized that the procedure to make this whole thing work would be so complicated that it would not be worth it. but you could have a backup battery system and charge it like this. that that would bring us to a weight factor. but if your bike ran on li-on ni-hm then this idea might actually work. but there is also the space factor. so this might only work with an electric car.

[Phiber_Optik]

All generators have magnetic resistance and need energy to spin them to create electricity. Therefore, any generator, whether run from tire/wheel friction, a tiny windmill or otherwise will use more energy to spin them than they will return back to the batteries. This is a net loss. Physics will simply not allow it to work. Even a little bit. As I stated earlier, this would only work if used to capture kinetic energy from coasting down hill or coasting to a stop. Then it must be disengaged when the main traction battery/motor kicks in to power the bike.

[Prophes0r]

These ideas only apply if we are talking about a constant "recharge" system. What if you used a caliper style braking system, but with rollers instead of brake pads, and used the resistance provided by the regenerative system ONLY while braking. The brake/regen system would not be mechanically attached to the drive system at any point UNLESS you actively want to slow down, you could still coast just fine. The challenge would be how to keep the weight down. Since you would already be using the hydraulics in the current brake system, that shouldn't add any weight. But you would have to design some fairly large calipers, and you would need either 4 generators, or a linkage system to transfer the mechanical energy. It may also be worthwhile to use a true mechanical disconnect on the drive-train to allow you to truly coast.

[dillweed2]

They already make regenerative motor systems, as a dc motor is a generator. This system will add money and weight and it works well with cars that have much more weight than a motorcycle. It would be way less complicated than what you suggest.

[Stryker]

Thanks guys for answering these questions. I don't plan on putting regen on my next one. It's just not worth it for motorcycles.

[beff50]

i am not saying that it will completely keep the batteries fully charged. but i am saying it would make the bike go a lot further.

[dillweed2]

It won't make it go farther. It will reduce the range. It is the whole perpetual motion machine thing. You can't get something for nothing. Phiber_Optik is exactly right.

[beff50]

ok ok. i have thought about this for a long time. here is what i really meant by my idea. get Li-on bats. then add an extra 3 bats. and use the alternator to charge those bats. when your voltage gets low.flip a switch to disconnect some of the dead bats and connect the full ones, so then the 2 or 3 that were disconnected can get charged up. this would significantly incres your range.

[dillweed2]

Let's say you have a 10 Amp alternator. The electric motor will require an extra 10 Amp draw to run the alternator, plus the additional amperage to overcome the bearings, alternator fan, any belts or gearbox to drive the alternator, and add in the resistance of the wire and you have a net loss. I don't know exactly what the loss would be, but it might an additional 1 or 2 amps to run the alternator. You would not gain ANYTHING! You would only make matters worse, plus the added weight of the alternator and the extra batteries that you could not use while they are being charged. You can't get something for nothing. Even when a transformer is used to change a voltage up or down, you have losses when some of the energy is changed into heat from the resistance of wires. The idea of using a battery to run an electric motor turning an alternator or generator is a perpetual motion machine that has not been invented and in theory can never work. A regenerative system is the only way you can recapture forward motion on braking and return it to the batteries.

[neardood]

Oh man, that is AWESOME!!! I wish i had one. Although i am doubtful of the resources used to make all the parts (batteries containing toxic chemicals, welding, electricity to charge/used in production) will oughtweigh the co$t of petrol, and thus enviroonmental benifit. Keep up the good work, and im looking 4WD to you're next creation

[ramedia]

You are assuming your cost on your current fuel consumption is the price you pay at the pump. Factor in things like $700 billion dollars to fight wars over access to oil in the middle east, and you'll get closer to the cost of your current fuel consumption. The true price of gas is probably about $500 a gallon when you factor in foreign policy and reversing the damage to the planet costs.

[Matt D655]

Thats actually A pretty good idea no pollution :)

[Body4Change.com]

Is there some type of formula to know how long the batteries will last? I want to put a 1000watt 36v motor on my bicycle. I have 3 12v 3.5AH batteries and I was wondering if they would run it long enough to be worth buying the motor. TIA

[Spokehedz]

I would need to know how many amps your motor draws at max load but we can work out using perfect values...

W / V = A or 1000w / 36v = ~27Amps

your batteries can supply 1 amp @ 12v for 3.5 hours. Since they are in series, you don't get any more MAh out of them, just volts. So electrically speaking, your battery pack can supply:

1A @ 36v for 3.5 Hours (210 Min)
2A @ 36V for 1.75 Hours (105 Min)
4A @ 36V for .87 Hours (52 Min)
8A @ 36v for .43 Hours (25 Min)
16A @ 36V for .21 Hours (12 Min)
32A @ 36v for .10 Hours (6 Min)

All values are approximate. Also, amps go up and down depending on load (more weight == more load) so this will also be a factor.

Also, on a bike, you can pedal to get up to speed and use the motor to just keep you rolling--a lot less energy used.

[Body4Change.com]

So if I was going as fast as I could, it would only last about 5-10 minutes or so? What is the calculation to get the minutes from a certain number of amps? (like 1A @ 36v for 3.5 Hours (210 Min) I would want it to last a LOT longer so I would need to get batteries with more Amps?

[ichiwazaryu]

I have a similar prodject going using a 800 watt motor and 3 batteries from jumper boxes (17ah) but my range seems very limited. Any suggestions? Would Car batteries do better? Thanks

[dalbyman]

This is an amazing project, im seriously thinking of trying it for myself... Possibly stupid question: If i were to instead of batteries use a small petrol/gasoline generator, would it work and would it save me much money on fuel (costs about £1.20 a litre in UK) thanks :)

[Spokehedz]

This is the concept that the Chevrolet Volt uses, and the only reason it works is that they have the room to put both the batteries and the generator into the body of the car. With a bike, you don't have room. You'd be lucky to get 48v @ 10A out of a generator that would fit in the space left behind from the motorcycle engine--and there would be no room for batteries. Motorcycles are already pretty fuel efficient. My dad has a 1973 Harley-Davidson Superglide FX and it gets 50-60MPG (21-25 KPL) and the best part is that you can repair it yourself. The lack of a complicated electronics system (Headlights, brake lights, turning signals) make it super simple to repair. Don't get me wrong: Electric is the way to go. But don't ruin a good bike for the sake of turning it EV to save gas.

[Stryker]

I think running a gas engine on an electric bike kind of defeats the purpose. You would be better off getting a gas scooter.

[Rishnai]

It probably would save you on fuel. Quite a bit, I figure. If not, you still get the crazy fun of electric torque. As for space, I can't find where I'd put the gas generators that the hardware store here has, since the ones that are rated to provide the kind of current I'd be pulling aren't really... motorcycle size. Wait, yes, I do see space. New project!

[nimitz]

It sounds like a strange idea but one thing I thought about was taking one of the larger diesel model airplane engines and add it and a small DC generator like one of the bicycle generators to the frame. That would certainly be able to add some charge to the system when running and not eat up too much fuel. At the very least you might be able to use it as an emergency charging system.

[Rishnai]

That could be fun. I'd like to build an actual diesel motorcycle sometime, even. The kind of generator I'm thinking of is the $1500+ model that will give 120 volts and 24 amps continuous power. Get the gas milage of a medium Honda motor, but the low-end grunt that I love. I like your idea of using the generator just as a charging system for the batteries, therby extending their life. I need a generator anyway, so I guess there's no better way to find out about it all than to just give it a shot!

[Guy.Fawkes]

Assuming 100% efficiency in converting sunlight to electricity, at the equator, at noon, on a perfectly clear day halfway between the Solstices. You would need approximately 1 square meter of solar panels per 1000 watts of power to be collected. The Optima D51 holds 41AH at the 20 hour rate (we really need the 1 hour rate for electric vehicle use, but just ignore that for now). That's 492 watt/hours per battery, or a total capacity of 2952 WH; call it 3 KWh for easy math. So you'd need 3 square meters of solar panels, charging for an hour, to get that. Ah, but real solar panels are only about 15% efficient, so that means you'd need either 20 square meters of solar panels, or 20 hours of charging per day to get the full charge on the batteries. Of course, if you don't happen to live on the equator, you'll need more panels, roughly figuring an efficiency decrease of 2.5% for every 1000 miles North or South. I would love to be able to drive a solar-powered bike, but honestly, there's (1) not enough energy from the sun at the Earth's surface to do a reasonable job of it with portable solar panels, and (2) the technology to do it even with fixed-location solar panels is too expensive for anyone who doesn't rub elbows with Bill Gates every week or so. The wind turbine, however, is fairly practical if you have the space. Of course, many US States will give an employer a tax break for letting you charge your EV at work. You should look into that.

[Yerboogieman]

i wouldnt pay more than $3500 $7000 is just too much

[Stryker]

I wouldn't either.... ;-) I put that price on there just being hopeful to help pay for my next bike getting better batteries. I think to pay $3500 you would have to build it yourself or get something much slower/cheaper built.

[Yerboogieman]

ah, good idea, just like at school i sell fixed ipods i got for free for alot more than their worth.

[Derin]

how do you get broken ipods apple refuses to sell them to me

[Yerboogieman]

people at school.

[Derin]

AAAHH THEN I WONT GET ANY IPODS

[Zeratul256]

you can get broken ones from ebay

[Derin]

i found none on ebay and i am not old enough for ebay

[Zeratul256]

Try getting your parents to help, and check out (i think) Freecycle.net. Just be sure if you go to pick up something from freecycle that you have an adult with you, because you never know who you will meet, and even at my age I meet some sketchy people.

[Derin]

Ok,

[Lego man]

Whats the type of Bike? It looks like a Honda Interceptor or Hurricane.

[vibe_from_india]

(removed by author or community request)

[Stryker]

It uses a throttle hooked up to a speed controller. There is no transmission just one gear.

[Yerboogieman]

is it possible to get more distance out of it? 30 miles at least?

[Stryker]

Yes if you add more or better batteries. I'm researching LiFePo for my next one so that should increase my range and reduce the weight dramatically.

[sultanjr]

Very interesting project! I just have a question with regard to water and the batteries. I live in a tropical country and it rains half the year here. Will this run in the rain (as built) or does it need to be modified? Thanks!

[Stryker]

The only component that I worry about it is the motor. It is open on one side and I don't know if that can get wet. The rest of the bike should be fine, but I haven't ridden in the rain to test it.

[si_kerr]

Has anyone considered making a regenerative braking system based around a smart-drive washing machine motor?

You could rewire one into either star or delta config (or both using a switching circuit to get the best efficiency depending on your speed), bolt it to your hubs, and recharge you batteries during the commute.

Smart-drive rewire

Immediate problems I can think of are:
A) Power generated from braking needs to be moderated and limited to the charge rate of batteries;
B) Regenerative braking torque varies with speed, and will need to be matched/merged with traditional brakes as a failsafe and to provide an acceptable braking response at all speeds.

Thoughts?

[finnster]

since its electric it has a limited range beforerecharge but other than that it's pretty cool

[Grey_Wolfe]

Gas has the same issue, just costs more to 'recharge'. Though it does take much longer to recharge a battery than fill up the tank. Give and take, I guess.

[82drops]

omg! this is awesome. everyone focuses on cars and no-one thinks to do the same with motorcycles. this makes me want to do the same to mine.

[Grey_Wolfe]

It's hard to carpool on a motorcycle. lol But seriously, this is a great idea. I'd still look into the car thing as well, the kids aren't old enough to ride on the bike with me yet.

[tcase]

Actually, electric bikes have been around for years, but, actually were bicycles, electric motorcycles have been built before this, but no one was really interested until the high prices of gasoline recently. Ive seen more electric motorcycles these past few months than Ive seen in years. Nice Job Stryker, yours is actually the nicest built Ive seen. Not thrown together like many. I like a sportster style myself, never really like croch rockets... good going...

[CDAWWGG]

I'd suggest going to Robotmarketplace.com and go to their motors section. The Perm Magnet series are MONSTEROUS as far as torque goes. Depending on budget, I'd say look for a sponsor because you got some serious talent and like the guy who built his own concept bike for MotoGP, you did a really amazing thing. The difference between the wheelchair motor bikes that I see all over the internet and this one is that this one looks stock, seem really value worthy and with a few tweaks, could save the world. Think about France, Italy, New York, SanFrancisco, they are really bike dependent and if they were electric, no emissions! Keep up the awesome work and I hope to see another cool project in the works.

[Stryker]

Thanks for the very nice comments. I'll take a look at those motors for my next bike. I've got the frame and just need to find the right batteries.

[Cat on my Lap]

Any thought on adding in regenerative braking?

[Stryker]

On the next one maybe. But for the short distance I travel there wouldn't be much gained. Of course every little bit helps.

[Randy Lahey]

Is there any sort of transmission? or does the motor do all the work?

[Stryker]

It only has one gear. My next bike will have a CVT like a snowmobile, but I'm happy with the acceleration and top end. I took the shift lever off the handle bars and that seems to confuse other bikers.

[sdfine]

Is there a reason why you couldn't use the existing transmission?

[Stryker]

You could, but it was easier for me to just pull the whole motor out. I have see a few people do that on the EValbum site.

[Randy Lahey]

Thats what i was gonna suggest. that would likely make a big difference. btw awesome project and great instructable. Hopefully I can get around to making one of these beauties some day.

[gradof6b]

so whats the max speed like on this??

[RenewableYou]

A common rule of thumb, according to the tech support at www.electricmotorsport.com, is the max speed in mph is more or less equal to the voltage of the system. For example, a 72V system should be geared for a max speed of 72 mph. A 48V system should be geared for a max speed of 48 mph. You could gear the system for higher max speed, however this is going to result in increased current (to compensate for increased drag) to the motor which could cause damage or at least over heating.

[Stryker]

I have it geared for 70mph and it gets up to speed very quickly. I've taken it out on the highway a few times with no problem.

[teamcoltra]

what is the charge time? If I went to the store (about 7 miles away) and plugged it in outside... when I came back would I be able to drive home?

[RenewableYou]

That depends on how long you are in the store, your charger, and the capacity of where your plugging into.

For all interested in electric motorcycle conversions I offer a good links:

www.elmoto.net- a forum for fans and people working on electric motorcycle conversions

www.therenewableyou.com- a resource for different types of renewable projects, including electric motorcycle conversions. This site aims to provide all the information needed to do your own renewable projects. Stryker's bike has its own page on this site, as well as notes concerning the conversion of a 1982 KZ550 to a 48V Ebike. The notes on everything from battery type, motor, range estimates, ect are avaliable here

[Stryker]

I don't know exactly how long it takes to charge. I plug it in when I get to work and when I leave it's charged. I think it takes about 4 hours for a full charge, but you can probably get enough to get home in 1 hour depending on your driving habits. Of course you could always buy a faster charger.

[skunkbait]

I've got a Bandit with a blown engine and a good electric golf cart motor. Is there any hope for me? I really need to do about 30 miles at a time (15/15). Should I go more battery or just gear it differently? 50 mph would keep up with traffic. I ride a '73 Sportster, but this would be cool as quiet bikes freak peolpe out!

[Stryker]

There's always hope, if you have enough money .... You can get that range but you'll need a lot of batteries. If you can afford Lithium Polymer than you can do it and get more speed.

[wee_man]

looks cool! great job is it road legal

[Stryker]

Thanks, it was a lot of fun to build and even more to ride. Yes it's street legal, insured and inspected.

[wee_man]

what was the price to get it road legal? jus like gettging it insured inspected street legal plates etc thanks

[Stryker]

Yes exactly like that. I have basic insurance from my provider and the local Honda dealer inspected it. It was a big hit at the dealer with the mechanics asking lots of questions and joking about failing the emissions test.

[wee_man]

Yes i was getting at the price roughly how much was it thanks

[Stryker]

Sorry, I don't recall exactly. Whatever motorcycle registration/inspections costs from your state.

[Plasmana]

That is a very good instructable!! What a great way to save alot of money from the crazy expensive gas! I will try build a electric motorcycle someday... *****ratings and vote for you!

[Stryker]

Thank you very much. Check out evalbum for other bikes to get you motivated to start building.

[Plasmana]

Thank you for that interesting website, I will build a EV soon, however I have to save up my money and buy the parts... Again, that is a great instructable stryker!

[mwmonkey]

is there any way of increasing the mileage as 15 miles to a charge is almost useless in devon as towns are well spaced out but I am thinking of building an electric motorbike thanks for any help it will be greatly appreciated

[yourcat]

A smaller motor might increase range (At the expense of speed)

[Stryker]

The only way I know to get more range would be to add more batteries or change gearing to go slower.

[tankboyben]

hi im interested in building an electric bike, i know litterally nothing about electrics but after hours of searching ive come across these lifepo4 batteries, they dont seem too expensive do you think they would be good for a project like this? have you considered using them?

[Stryker]

I have been looking into using them. They are a lot lighter and take more charges, but to get the voltage and amps I need it's going to be about $5000.

[tankboyben]

hmm, it sounds allot but i think it would be a worthwhile investment, thats £2500 in my money and a new moped can cost that over here so if i could build a motorbike for £4000 ($8000) over a period of time i think it wouldnt be so bad for a functional road vehicle, anyhoo i got lots more research and learning to do before i start the process of making one. when are you starting your next project? will you be posting the progress on your website? cheers, Ben =o)

[Stryker]

I tried not to think about the money and focus on the environment benefits, plus looking a lot cooler on a motorcycle than a moped.... Good luck on your project and I'm sure I'll post my next one, but it's going to be a little bit.

[mwmonkey]

could you add a new gearing system to your instructable giving an alternative method of gearing so it goes slower but battery supply last longer

[Stryker]

I had a different sprocket on the bike originally, but my motor was getting too hot so I changed it up. My next bike should have a variable speed transmission so that will make a big difference. Look up CVT's.

[wow-amazing]

What's the capacity (mAh) on the batteries?

[Stryker]

Each battery is 12Volts and 41Amps. So that's 41000mAh.

[wow-amazing]

How does that work out?

[MageE68]

I was curious why you picked the motor from thunderstruck-ev.com that you did out of the choices of : Perm PMG 132 <<-- Now in Stock!! Etek Motor <

[Stryker]

I think it was size and cost and power that made me choose the one I did. It's a strong motor but I might research other models for my next one.

[el greeno]

This is amazing. I never even thought this would be road legal, but you proved me wrong. I am even tempted to build one and get a bike license. Could store it indoors as no oil or grease to leak... Cool.

[nepharis]

Very cool bike. I like the red :) I'm planning on building an electric motorcycle Real Soon Now; I'm mostly curious about getting it inspected and insurance. What do you have to show/prove for the inspection (what state/country/planet are you in)? Is your bike insured? Are there places that will give you crap insurance cheap?

[Stryker]

Inspection was simple just took it to local Honda dealer and everything was fine. Of course I didn't have an emissions test report.... As for insurance I have the basic liability and I just gave them the equivalent HP that my electric is. Good luck on your bike.

[Szpectre]

Very impressive. You should check out El Moto.net.

[cdrwiega]

How about a solar glass or make some of the shell solar for recharging

[amariusd]

Would it be feasible to add some sort of regenerative component to the wheels so that the motion could be stored for future use? I'm thinking something like the toyotas have for regenerative braking, but I'm not quite sure how to implement it. Very cool BTW!

[jongscx]

you should re mount the muffler just to confuse people...

[SoakedinVancouver]

Eh! A nice spot to hide the foldable solar panel!

[phreakincool]

That's a really good idea! Noted!

[kishida]

Maybe a fake muffler converted into a tool/misc storage might be useful?

[Stryker]

Haha, I saw one guy put an MP3 player on his and plays the sounds of a Harley.

[boxa888]

stryker, i read that a ac motor would give you more efficient energy transfer from your batteries because ac generates half the heat and waste of a dc motor, maybe upgrade that somehow and it could give you more milage. anyways awesome video, i was planning on doing the same thing but i need to get some money!! lol. awesome job, and very nice clean arrangement. yea you can buy like those mini solar panels from radio shack, maybe stick a few of those on there. awesommmmeeee!!!

[pfeng]

That actually is a very good addition! One reason that motorcycles have loud exhaust (besides the macho factor, of course) is so car drivers are more likely to hear them, notice them, and hopefully LESS likely to crash into them. For 3 miles on back roads, I wouldn't worry :-) but if you wanted to go on major roads or highways, a noisy bike is probably safer.

[BGreenHVAC]

You are exactly right. Nothing replaces the skill of a good motorcycle rider though. You would have to exceed the noise ordinance for most idiots to know you are there. I had a loud bike, but I almost got pinned between a Dually truck and a rock retainind wall. Even though my bike was loud, the idiot was talking on the phone, eating, jacking with the radio, and who knows what else. He just kept moving into my lane. I gus gave it full-throttle and sped to a safer position. Even though I flew past the dually, I don't think he ever knew I was there.
Loud pipes are a great lifesaving safety device. Also, I loved reving my engine and dround out the crappy noise that passes as music. I'd probably still laugh at the guy for making an imitation Harley noise. Most Harley owners would be offended. Play another engine....Perhaps the sound the rice-racer cars with the oversized exhaust (it kinda sounds like the muffler broke off....lol

[pfeng]

@Stryker -- I'm sorry for turning the comments into a dispute over noisy bikes, I really didn't mean to!!!

[bsilva]

Yeah, I know this isn't a forum for this subject, but at least everyone on both sides of the argument is being civil and polite. And it's a valid subject for debate. Getting people to notice you on a bike is a big issue, I just don't think loud pipes are the way to do it. Meanwhile, I've been thinking about building an electric bike for local commuting and running errands. You're posting has given me some good ideas and has changed my parts list a little. No to start looking for a chassis.... Thanks Stryker! Brad

[Stryker]

No problem.

[Jalakahops]

That is completley false. All studies indicate that loud pipes make no difference. The people who hear it are behind you. Please take off your annoying pipes.

[Silence]

Dopler effect. At highway speeds the person in front probably wont hear more than a soft put put, even from a modified harley, and even less with thier windows closed. The majority of accidents are probably caused in close proximity while the biker is in the process of passing, or in a paralell lane directly beside or sleightly behind the drivers 'unassisted' field of view. An attentive driver will check thier mirrors carefully before making any maneuvers. Brighter colors and a full front ferring will probably make more of a difference than noisey pipes.

[waterppk]

Loud Pipes Save LivesLoud Pipes Save Lives ;P

[jridley]

Loud pipes scream "Look at me, I'm cooler than you are and my ego depends on irritating as many people as possible." If they really wanted the loud pipes for that reason, they'd point them forwards where the noise is needed, not behind. I once had a harley pass me and I didn't have a chance to roll my windows up first, and my hearing wasn't right for almost a whole day afterwards. It was painful. If they feel they can't safely ride without pipes so loud that they cause physical pain to others, then they need to choose a different vehicle. If I ever buy another motorcycle, one of the big considerations will be to get the absolute quietest one around. Sweet ride BTW.

[jc817]

(removed by author or community request)

[jridley]

I'm not sure that causing permanent physical damage to people who are just nearby is "being a girl". I used to be more understanding about it until I found out that the riders put in foam earplugs and then a helmet that blocks a lot of sound too. If the riders had to put up with their own noise, that might make up for it a bit. Perhaps the people who ride bikes like this wouldn't mind having speakers installed in their houses that reproduced what I have to hear, that go off at random times all day and night, waking them up like they do everyone else.

[BGreenHVAC]

I have been a biker for many years and I have never met anyone who wore ear plugs when riding. Are you making it up? Or is it a local thing in your area. Never heard of such a thing.

I have met the yuppies who wear helments with earphones and microphones. They aren't bikers. They are riders with issues they are trying to show they can handle a bike like a man....such wankers

[jc817]

I knew that was going to spark a ridiculous response. I was riiiiiiiiight.

[jongscx]

yeah... he/she beat me to it...

[gormly]

jridley you are so ridiculously wrong and I have the scars to prove it. My serious accident was caused by a woman who said she did not "hear" me. I had just sold my Seca 750 for a Nighthawk about 1/2 as loud. If I had been riding my Seca.. I am fairly positive she would have heard me...it would have almost been impossible for her not to. Please don't confuse vanity with safety. also, your reasoning skills are poor. think a bit more about your "pipe mount" comment and you'll realize how silly you sound. BTW.. you sure "saw" that Harley.. didn't you? You are mistaken, deal with it.

[bsilva]

Sigh... I'm sorry about your scars Gormly. I've been riding since I was a kid and I've never seen a case where a loud bike would replace paying attention. Several years ago, I also most clobbered a guy on a harley. Why? He tried passing between me a a semi. He had a loud pipe, but because he was behind me, I didn't Hear it. I did See him, but at just the last minute. A pipe has to be pretty loud to carry forward at freeway speeds. Loud enough to anger anybody you pass. However, I've seen many cases where loud bikes have caused problems. Last year a guy on a Ducati with a race pipe went to pass a gal. When he opened up the throttle, the loud blatt scared her into swerving. She swerved the wrong way and almost hit him. Only his reflexes saved him. I talked to her later, it wasn't malicious, she was just startled. I'll never own a bike with a "Loud" pipe and I've never had an accident that wasn't my own fault. 30 years and several hundred thousand miles all over north america. Brad

[gormly]

I am not really sure if it's the fact that you don't like "loud" bikes or you just don't know how sound works?? But it seems like you are just being disengenous to make your point. Unless the bike was like this awesome electric above, a bike being behind you has little effect on the sound you would hear. Cars, trees, buildings, the road all reflect sound. Unless you had your music blasted, you'd hear it and it you did have it blasted, you'd FEEL the frequency of the pipe sound. Also, in your example, it seems to me that you would have heard the guy on the Harley at some point. And to be critical, it seems like he was being reckless which has nothing to do with sound or sight...if his pipes were loud enough you would have heard him as he tried to pass... I live in a beach area.. bikes ALL day long, back roads, city roads and highway, you ALWAYS hear them, back, front and side of you. As far as the woman being startled.. really? That's is your example? A dumb driver swerving because she was startled? She should be taken off the road for humanities saftey.. swerving because you head a loud startling noise is not a normal thing to do and I suspect a little exaggeration. no offense but that sounds like a made up story to me, you were either on the bike, in the car, or you happened to pull her over to talk, or this is second, third hand info? I am not trying to pick a fight, or put you down, but this seems to be the norm today on the internet, just make examples up to prove a point with no basis in science.

[bsilva]

Nope, both happened. The second example was in a small town, it was someone I knew and I asked her about it the next day. If you think a loud blatt from a race ducati won't startle people, well you're wrong. A ducati with a race pipe is fairly quiet until you really open the throttle (a lot of harley pipes are that way too). This gal did not know he was there and the sudden (scary-loud) noise really confused her. I think it would to a lot of people. I'll agree that a loud bike on city streets or country roads, the cars in front of you will hear you. However, my experience on freeways is that unless the bike has a straight pipe and is at full throttle, cars in front of you will not hear you. Yeah, you're right about the guy who tried to pass me, perhaps that was a poor example, he was being an idiot and that would have been true whether his pipe was loud or not. I have several issues with noisy pipes. One; the guys I know with loud pipes use the "safety" angle as an excuse to have a loud pipe. They're less concerned about safety than being cool. However, it really does piss off the people around you, including many other bikers. And I don't feel it adds much in the way of safety. I'm sure that there are lots of cases where someone who otherwise wouldn't have noticed a rider, did because of the noise. And I'm also sure their next thought was "what an *&((le". It sure doesn't help the image of motorcycling. I've had hundreds of cases (no hyperbole, really hundreds), where other cars did not see me and would have caused an accident if I didn't see them first and made sure I was in a position to avoid them. So, to reduce my position to one sentence; Loud pipes piss me off (and my neighbors) and I don't feel they add enough safety to warrant the noise. I've ridden for more than thirty years and several hundred thousand miles, in city traffic and cross country. My bikes have stock pipes or are close to stock in noise level, so I'm not some guy without experience. Brad

[Pornostache]

safety is important. If you want risk free get a car. I have heard many a biker brag about how much it pisses people off with the noise, and i even know a few who ride with earplugs in. If your godamn bike is so godamn loud then YOU can't hear anything. how safe is that? poetic justice would be a guy who was hit by a semi cause he couldn't hear it over his stupid exhaust.

[bsilva]

Yeah. Despite my good safety record, I'll be the first to admit that cars are safer than bikes. Still, the feeling of riding a bike on a twisty road is something I won't give up until I'm too old to be able to ride safe. I'll probably stop driving at the same time. There's a comment below where someone says that "about 75% of motorcycle accidents aren't the riders fault..". I strongly disagree with that. The vast majority of motorcycle vs car accidents were preventable if the motorcyclist was actively driving defensively. By that I mean: making sure you have room to move if a car changes lanes into you, staying away from driveways where someone could pull out blind, etc. One day on a 45 mile freeway ride, I had four cars "not see me" and try to change into my lane. A quick honk and either gas or brake to get out of thier way. No accidents. As to ear plugs, most riders use them because of wind noise, not exhaust. At freeway speeds you can't hear a car next to you anyway (unless it's an off-road truck ;-). My current primary bike is the quietest I've ever owned and I still wear ear plugs on the freeway.

[waterppk]

I agree on the road noise part, I ride with the ear plug style headphones and a helmet to keep the noise down and it's amazing how loud it is when you ride for several hours and tune it out and then stop suddenly and hear sweet sweet silence.

Has anyone ever seen those videos of India (etc) where the roads are dominated by scooters and motorcycles, it's amazing to see the intersections - I think it's more about looking out for one-another and with more and more driver distractions (on BOTH vehicles) it's really hard for all involved.

[bsilva]

Yup. That's it exactly. It's not that cage drivers are trying to ignore us, it's that there are so few bikes on the road that people are not used to looking for them. Lets face it, it's a very rare individual that is fully consciously aware of their surroundings. Most of us get used to looking for what we're used to seeing. That is to say, as we drive we train our brain by driving. If we do not normally see bikes when we look over our shoulder, then we stop looking in the smaller spaces for things other than cars. So..... as a result, people are more likely to miss seeing bikes. So, it's up to us as riders to make sure that even if a car doesn't see us, we're still safe. Not that that's easy. But loud pipes are certainly not the answer, although I can see why some people think it is. Loud pipes just piss me off. Oh well. Brad

[jongscx]

If you really want people to notice, Instead of Harley noises, start blaring MMMBOP by those Hanson girls from the 90s. Did you know, most accidents happen within 1 mile of the destination or the origin... The way I see it, you only have 1 mile where you're relatively safe. :-P I dunno, it may look cool to add a carbon-fiber panel to area in front of the batteries... to make it more aerodynamic...

[chester3000]

and about 75% of motorcycle accidents aren't the riders fault...

[jridley]

Keep in mind that just because a driver isn't found to be at fault doesn't mean they couldn't have avoided the accident. I was involved with 3 major accidents in my first 10 years of driving, and I was found to be ZERO percent at fault in each one of them; each of them involved the other guy doing something boneheaded. Yet I now know that I could have avoided them all, and I haven't been involved in anything I'd even call a close call for 15 years now. You can develop a pretty damn acute bonehead radar. A pull-out T-bone is not the motorcyclists "fault" but in many cases they can be foreseen. Twice in the last 10 years I've been behind someone at an intersection, and called an impending accident 5 or more seconds before the people involved knew what was happening. I told my passengers "Watch out, accident about to happen ahead." There's no substitute for being cautious and having a lot of experience.

[ranex]

i have to say this is the best homemade electric bike I've seen, it looks how it should. I was thinking of making a electric bike but i want it to be longer range, i was thinking if you had a bike with a sidecar for housing the batteries but i dont know what that trade off would be

[scubydoo]

Nice instructable btw.. awesome job. however , Im just curious as to how you decided on which cycle to go with? any suggestions on what to look for is someone wanted a different style bike, and how to go about finding which parts would fit best?

[Stryker]

I chose this bike just because I like the style and it was affordable. What I would look for in another one would be; newer, lighter model with a belt drive. As for the best parts you just need to decide how fast/far you want to go and that determines your motor and batteries required. Then make cardboard mockups of those parts and see if they fit. Most of the other components will fit in about anything.

[car0010]

could you do this to a dirt bike? eg. a old yamaha yz85 or yz126 etc.

[Stryker]

Sure, in fact there are already a few EV dirt bikes on the market. I don't think you could get the same amount/size of batteries but from what I've see they look like a lot of fun.

[aceofspeeds]

WOW!!! When I'll have the money and spare few months I'll build one too. This is amazzing (except I'll also install speakers with artificial motorcycle motor sound, because silent motorcycles are a no-no :)

[AngusNotSoYoung]

Agreed.....But I bet you'd get more looks with a silent bike than with a big fat Harley with straight pipes.

[phreakincool]

Awesome! You've inspired me Stryker! I plan on doing this with a 1987 Yamaha FZR 1000 (If my friend sells me his. wink wink)

[Stryker]

Glad to hear it. The more electric vehicles on the road the better. Don't forget to post your bike on the EValbum.

[J50Nunlimited]

WOW nice exciting project. A car would be nice too but it will be a lot messier and wasty on electricity. Hope I could build one soon. Simple. Easy. Fun. Useful.

[Burn]

Do you think you could put up a video of the bike running? thanks -burn

[Stryker]

I'll see what I can do.

[Rossiroller]

How do you wash it? Like do you have to do everything by hand or is it relatively waterproof? Great Instructable!

[Stryker]

I do it by hand, but haven't had to clean that much since I only ride in nice weather and keep it in the garage.

[beaggressive]

How much does the electric motor cost and could you post a direct link?

[Stryker]

There is a link to the motor in my instructable, but I'm not sure if they sell that one anymore.

[beaggressive]

How much does the electric motor cost and could you post a direct link?

[n4zou]

I purchased this same bike in Japan and brought it back to the US when I was in the Navy. I was just looking around and when the Photo popped up I had a flashback to my time on my Interceptor. I rode it all around California and then across the USA from San Diego to Anniston, AL. I took the long way around and not directly across. My first stop was Las Vegas and then as much of old route 66 as I could. Seeing your electric Interceptor and reading about how you converted it has made my day. Thanks!

[junisponds]

cool instructable. i'll post a link to Toologics.com tomorrow.

[Doveman]

If I had the money I would make this. But sadly I don't. D: Also, awsome Instructable.

[jumbohiggins]

it says 10 miles per charge does that mean you can only go 10 miles b4 your battery dies or can you put in multiple charges also how long does it take for this to charge all the way from a totally dead battery?

[Stryker]

Yes 10 miles +/- depending on how hard you ride it. I don't get 10 miles when I go 70mph. It takes around 5 hours to charge up.

[Country dude]

what if you could get some big a*s solar panels to cover the fame it will look cool as well would that work

[Stryker]

When they start making flexible, efficient,affordable solar panels I will definitely put them all over the bike.

[Mr.Grinch]

if i had enough money, i would just buy some high-efficiency solar panels to bring with me and set them up at work to charge the bike

[Mr.Grinch]

i just found a site that offers portable wind turbines also (telescoping, designed for rv's and outdoor recreational stuff) http://www.siliconsolar.com/complete-wind-power-kits.php

[Silence]

For a far out power option look up 'Parendev' or 'magnetic generator' on you-tube / google. If i had the time, space and money id be playing around with this stuff trying to mesh it with electric autos n stuff.

[hobbssamuelj]

perendev has been debunked. it's impossible to create infinite energy from rare earth magnets. why does everyone forget the 1st law of thermodynamics? energy cannot be created, only converted. magnetism, though related to energy cannot create electricity for very long.

[cody316]

Yeah, but what if you used the neodnyum magnets to spin a shaft mounted to a generator.... its my work in progress its about 60% complete

[Silence]

By my view, the energy being put in is the magnetic force, like radiation in nuclear reaction, theres plenty of it, all we need do is figure out the most efficient way to tap it. Then, leaving parendev behind ive recently seen some materials on heat pumps and some ingenious fuel technologies that several backyard hacks have come up with. Its never a matter of breaking the laws of thermodynamics, its a matter of understanding where your idea fits in. Who would have suspected a plutonium rod could generate electricity ? its just a warm piece of rock yet now its the foundation of power generation in industrialized countries. radiation > heat > steam > power magnetics would be Magnetism > Motion > power

[hobbssamuelj]

magnetic force is not energy. magnetic force is finite and dependent on the degree to which magnets are matched together to produce motion. magnetism is replenished by electricity. perendev, to be viable, requires electricity to replenish the magnetism. that makes the system nonviable. radiation from fissile nuclear material is finite. magnetism is finite. all fuels are finite. there is no way to generate infinite energy from finite sources. it's impossible, wishful thinking aside. by all means though, spend the 90000euros on a perendev engine and tinker to your heart's content.

[Grey_Wolfe]

Magnetic force can be used to create kinetic energy.

Perendev's are a valid design basis. It's a matter of finding an efficient balance of output vs. cost of replacing/recharging magnets. Btw, magnets can be recharged with magnets. There's nothing making it impossible to reallign the atoms over and over. Feasably, if one had a multi stage system where one wheel was working as the Perendev does while the others were aligned with the polarities reversed so as to reallign the atoms in their magnets, you could have a system that degraded much more slowly by switching which wheels are being in a cycle. This does enlarge the system, but it has dynamic potential. (Infinite, no, but a starting point towards a viable system, perhaps.)

Just because it doesn't create infinite energy doesn't mean it doesn't work. Neither does any other energy source.

The goal is not to create infinite energy, it is to create efficient energy.

I don't disagree with you that Perendev's as they are are not entirely viable, but then neither was the original light bulb. Gotta start somewhere. ;-D

[Country dude]

Sweet i will look that up in a bit

[Ibanezfoo]

This is a great project. I have a question. How do you go about licensing and registering something like this to be able to take it on public roads?

[Stryker]

I just took the PA motorcycle safety course to get my license and registered the bike as a normal motorcycle. It goes 70mph so it's allowed on public roads.

[Country dude]

In step 3 you said that the 6 yellow top battery or what not couldn't fit. why don't you take out the gas tank

[Stryker]

I wanted to keep the look of a normal bike. I cut the bottom of the gas tank out to fit the batteries up into it.

[jefferymhunter]

Warning! For anyone contemplating cutting into an old gas tank - just getting all the gas out isn't enough. The remaining fumes, even in a "dried out" tank can be EXPLOSIVE. Always fill the tank with water before/during cutting/welding.

[bluGill]

In fact any empty gas tank is the worst thing you can work with! A full gas tank has too much gas and too little oxygen to burn. (You can drop a match in a full gas tank and the match will go out without any explosion. Note that I said you, just because something will work doesn't mean you should try it)

[Big Bwana]

I used to work in a radiator shop and people would bring in small tanks like this to get fixed all the time, all we did was wash them with warm water and soap, first you squirt in some soap,then fill it 3/4 full with water, drop in what ever change you have in your pocket and shake for a few seconds, then drain , Rinse out the soap with clean water (( it' ll will screw up a nice paint job later if you don't )) and don't forget your change. Now you can cut it, weld it, braze it or solder it. (( I also finished off washing it by spraying the tank with Spray Nine cleaner, most good auto parts stores like NAPA, UAP, Parts Stop, carry this and so does walmart and Homedepot in there car care section and chemical cleaners section, because it removes all the oil and other junk left on the tank so you can get the flux to work quickly with out much effort and it ends up giving you a nice paint job )) And if you have to put the tank back into service right away, assuming your still using fuel, pour in some methanol swish it around and drain then allow it to dry so you remove all the water quickly (( about 30 min on most tanks ))

[TheThompsonFive]

I like roofing nails myself. Just make sure to count them, or your change, on the way in and the way out.

[Big Bwana]

I was visiting the old shop this weekend and the guy there is now using copper plated BB's, they get into all the tight spots and are soft enough so they don't damage any thing and hard enough to remove every thing...

[fyrefrog]

if you use a old fashion wheel mount generator like the ones used for head lights on a bike it can be used for charging batteries with out drawing power from them just hook it to the front wheel or try running the light system this way and save power usage for the motor

[stagehand33]

good job , I ride a 36 volt sit down scooter I built from an old chinese frame, a scott motor from robotcombat.com(3.5 hp), and a altrax 4844 controller.my top speed ever was 42.3, but thats pretty fast on the sidewalk. Just kidding, I think the most important componet is the controller.The altrax seems to handle anything with ease and thier factory tech support is the best I've ever exsperianced Batteries are a big problem .unless you can aford the really good ones your power and range suffer. but it hurts less if they get fried or left uncharged or otherwise rendered useless,stuff happens. it helps to buy the cheaper componets while your learning how not to blow them up trying different riggs. stagehand33

[JorritJ]

Looks very cool! How much does it weigh compared to the original motorcycle with engine?

[speeddemon93]

How easy would it be to hook up a small gas powered generator and how effective would it be charging the batteries of the road. That could be useful for emergency-run out of power situations, or times where you want to go more than 10 miles. Also if regenerative braking uses the motor as a temporary charger... could you wire the motor to be plugged into a outside power source(i.e. a wall outlet) to charge the batteries instead of buying an expensive charger? I don't know allot about electronics, but I'm guessing its impossible since I don't see it done anywhere. Darn! I want to build this so bad but don't have money, experience etc.

[Country dude]

You could try customizing it to have a bunch of solar panels on the frame wich would look cool

[georgemorgan]

I agree with these ideas for Mr Speed. This could be an incridable machine of its time. And the time is now for sure!

[jumbohiggins]

ok i know absolutley nothing about motorcycles but would it be possible to get a cheap used motorcycle like you suggest and then change the outside body kit so it looks like a different motorcycle

[Bubbler]

A motor that runs on liquid fuel such as LPG, petrol, diesel and used to drive a generator is as old as the hills. Submarines and diesel train engines for example, run this way. Subs charged batteries whilst on the surface, then submerged running the electric motor to propel. I have an old lawn mower motor belted to an alternator , which can charge six 12 volt car batteries at once. This would be a bit weighty for a trailer, but charging just two at a time, plus running another in the bike frame would see a good distance made before a lunch break I would think.

[madhops0620]

this is awesome! I would definitely build one if I wasnt't 14, had hardly any electronic experience, no welding experience, had no drivers license, any remodeling experience, 3,000$ to spend, a couple months to work on it, a place to ride it legally, and insruance on it :)

[speeddemon93]

ha ha, dito. exact problems I have

[SoakedinVancouver]

No worries, the way this planet is going, by the time you are 25, electric vehicles will be the only thing allowed. There will be instructables on how to build '68 Mustangs powered by fish oil ;)

[Stryker]

Take metal shop in school and try to talk your teaching into a group project of an EV.

[static]

Several nearby High Schools participate in this http://www.electrathonamerica.org/index.htm The events are eerily silent to watch.

[Rossiroller]

And share it with the other kids? No way! This is way too cool for that!

[zjharva]

hey me too i'm only 13............... but i think i can probably find a job so i can make an EV.

[Bubbler]

Add a trailer with a sprocket wheel to one side. The sprocket drives a belt which turns an alternator (generator) which charges two extra batteries riding on the trailer through a dual battery system. This should keep you running for quite a long while, and it has been done before with powered bicycles and trikes. Your E Bike looks great by the way.

[YummyPancakes]

Kind of reminds me of how I once took two motors, wired them to each other, and started to spin one...

[Pornostache]

All you're doing is using your own fuel to drive that alternator. It will decrease your fuel efficiency. It took me several hours to explain to my father how this idea CAN NOT work. Anyone who has taken (and understood) basic physics knows this is a fools notion. YOU CAN NOT HARNESS YOUR FORWARD MOTION TO CREATE ENERGY UNLESS YOU FIRST SUPPLY THAT ENERGY! you can only "create energy by taking it out of the system. I feel like smashing my own head open so i can lend you my brains.

[Rossiroller]

I agree with you completely, but keep in mind that basic physics also state that a car should not be able to turn using just its two front wheels!

[iain.d]

Pornostache is citing the second law of thermodynamics. It sounds to me as if you were citing some pseudo-science you heard somewhere. Why shouldn't a car be able to turn when its front wheels are turned? What else would it do, go straight with turned front wheels?

[Pornostache]

yea. i dunno about the whole car turning thing. as far as i'm concerned, the bloody car is turning, ergo...it can turn. which law of physics is it that states a car shouldn't turn?

[saintchuck]

My god, you've discovered perpetual motion.

[JIM5349]

Wondering what type of batteries you are using, you did mention model number but are they deep cycle, like you would use on a troling motor used for fishing or are they regular automotive type ? There is a difference in the life span. I really love the idea and have a bike ready to change over, just need time.

[Stryker]

Yes deep cycle. That's the only kind you can really use. I prefer the sealed kind to avoid all the gas venting and more flexibility for mounting them.

[sparkz247]

Awesome instructable! Is there a way to make it charge as you drive to get more mileage out of it?

[Pornostache]

Look up "Regenerative Breaking". You use the fact that an electric motor is also an electric generator. Kind of like downshifting in a car you use the bike's momentum to drive the motor, which creates a current that can be put back into the battery.

[Stryker]

Maybe if I mounted a generator on the side, but until solar panels get better the only way to increase range is more batteries.

[jmengel]

Maybe make it charge while you drive if you mounted a generator on the side? Wow. Just like Nelson on "The Simpson's" solved world hunger by redirecting the animatronic torso's colon into its mouth. Just so no one else posts another perpetual motion scheme: You cannot get energy for free. Regenerative braking, yes. Regenerative driving, no.

[Stryker]

I was talking about a portable gas generator, but I wouldn't do that either.

[kishida]

Are you talking about regenerative braking?

[bennelson]

Nice Setup! Mine is only 36V right now, but 24-48V controllers are cheaper!
See it at:
http://web.mac.com/benhdvideoguy/iWeb/cycle/Welcome.html
or
http://www.evalbum.com/1133

Also check out:
http://www.ecomodder.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10
and
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/

[sparkz247]

What about some kind of alternator setup?

[jongscx]

From what I understand, you're either talking/asking about Perpetual Motion or Regenerative Braking. 1) Perpetual motion - essentially having a machine that is immune to Entropic energy loss, such that the only energy needed is to have it start moving, and that by some mechanism it will continue on without need of additional energy. Kinda like mounting a generator on the front wheel and a motor on the back wheel, such that the action of the motor pushing the bike forward can generate electricity to run the motor to generate... etc etc. Doesn't work.... technology is not currently at the stage where this is possible. Ex: A car only gets Under %15 of the energy in the gasoline... the rest is lost to friction, as heat, etc. 2) Regenerative Braking - Using the vehicle's motor as a generator during periods of deceleration and capturing that energy as electricity. This Is feasible, and in fact, is often done in electric cars. The Caveat being that it will only work when the car is slowing down. 1st law of thermodynamics/ law of conservation of energy: Energy changes form, is neither created nor destroyed. Regen braking works by changing the movement energy (kinetic) into electric energy. As such, to get more electricity, you need to reduce the movement (slow down). Regenerative braking, as I understand, is actually really easy to implement, as it uses the motor already on the vehicle, no extra alternator. (Ex, the electric motors on the Pruis are called "Motor-Generators" for a similar reason.) Permanent Magnet Motors do this naturally, but you'd need an ESC (Electronic Speed Control) with this feature included to actually charge the batteries with it. ...Hope that helps.

[waterppk]

Thanks for writing that. . . I was really not looking forward to it :)

[jongscx]

Didn't realize how long of a comment I had written until I posted it... then I was like.. Holy crap.

[jumbohiggins]

ok i know absolutley nothing about motorcycles but this seems like a really cool project to do for a college student (heck if im gonna pay for gas) and i was wondering, could you just get a basic motorcycle frame and put panels from another type of motorcycle on the outside?

[bedbugg2]

thats amazing

[robbtoberfest]

Thanks for all the good EV links; I didn't know all those options were out there.

[Body4Change.com]

Is there a way to calculate the amount of run time the batteries will last depending on the amps and the motor and such?

[Body4Change.com]

i'M THINKING ABOUT DOING SOMETHING SIMILAR BUT i'D HAVE TO USE SMALLER BATTERIES.

[Llewner]

Very nice. Personally I would go for more range and less top end speed. Something to get around town and to and from work, but not for any highways over 55mph. Also, I'm waiting for the promised carbon nanotube capacitor / batteries. C'mon "science"!!! Sheesh ;) Oh, and on the next bike, do a Chang Jiang so that I can buy it from you. ;)

[Pete42]

I would recomend the use of hub motors you could use one in each wheel, though you may need a controller for each, correct me if im wrong.

[ajparag]

what is the top speed of this bike? i tried to make one during my college project but failed miserably...i have the motor with me though.....can u guide us more about this project?

[Amberwolf]

If it helps anyone else doing this, another good controller company that's been around a while is 4QD, at http://4qd.co.uk . They have a number of different series of controllers from small to large capacities, up to 48v and over 100amp continuous. The designs are mostly analog, with new microcontroller-based ones being introduced relatively recently. From what I've seen of the designs, they're a lot better protected than most of the "cheap" controllers out there.

I'm still working on my own e-bike conversion projects, which don't yet have enough detail to warrant an instructable, but you can see what I have posted so far at http://opporknockitytunes.blogspot.com . I am trying to build as exclusively from recycled items and parts as I can, though there are some things I'm finding I have to use new due to poor availability as sets of old items (like N50 motor magnets for converting cieling fan motors into hub motors, etc). The not-yet-posted most recent work includes a custom-designed analog-based motor controller.

Another controller being designed is the Open Source Motor Controller project, at http://www.robotpower.com/products/osmc_info.html which could be adapted to our EV purposes.

[metal-matt]

post a video plz 'cos this bike looks like fun :) lol but i bet it dont go as fast or load as my dad 650cc .....still fun thow :)

[darchole]

first of all when i got to this step it was like i was looking at my own version that i made up on windows lol, of how the wiring and all that went but i dont think i had the stuff in the right places ,since ive seen your s and now know i have a little more knowledge but my i dea isn't for a motor bike , I have some ideas i think the right person with the now how "unlike myself" lol could make my idea " the big one" and get paid large for it thanks for the little know how my email is [e-mail] let me know lol, have a good one

[arzie2000]

It's a very good instructable! We have a global warming issue right now. you've made your contribution. thanks!

[aerohoff]

Very cool! But doesn't Motorcycle + Silent = Certain Death

[Kurayamino]

This is a fallacy perpetuated by harley riders, loud pipes = big e-peen. Loud pipes do nothing but annoy the crap out of cagers, kill your hearing, make you look like a squid and often actually reduce power due to lack of back pressure. Getting an exhaust that increases performance and just happens to be a few decibels louder is cool, though, and usually sounds pretty sweet to boot.

[arzie2000]

I agree to that! i really hate loud motorcycles, especially at night when you're in deep sleep then a loud motorcycle passes you by and all the neighbor's car alarms. Every night that happens, i can't get to catch that person. he seems to be "amused" by the sounds of those car alarms.

here is my equation:
Motorcycle + stupid rider = certain death
Motorcycle + Noise + Riding at night = possible death
Motorcycle + intelligent rider ≠ death

[Spokehedz]

It is not ALL e-peen... But yes, a lot of it is. But loud all the time will get you noticed by cars a lot more than if your quiet. It is the same with electric cars--but obviously to a much lesser extent. Motorcycles require a lot more thinking than driving in a car. Especially in the USA where there are so few of them on the road compared with Europe. You have little or no protection from a crash--which I feel makes you think more about not doing stupid things. But you can't think for a second that you are ever 'in sight' of anybody. Always be aware of cars on your sides, and behind you. I can't even imagine how many times I have seen motorcycles almost get swiped by people changing lanes.

[carpespasm]

The loud pipes save lives argument has never worked for me since I've seldom noticed a loud bike until it's in front of me. Just my experience

[RichardBronosky]

The phrase "loud pipes save lives" gets people hurt. I saw a survey where they found that motorcyclists are getting into trouble because they thought the car heard them. Loud pipes effect people in homes an on side walks. People in cars cannot hear how close a bike is or in what direction. Thinking a loud pipe is going to give you any safety is going to get you hurt. I do think that all bikes should have super loud horns (not the sirens) like US police cars. That tone was designed with much R&D to be attention getting and easy to sense the direction of origin.

[Body4Change.com]

Could you post a link to the motor on that website? I couldn't find it.

[RetroTechno]

That is sweet! Too bad about the 10 mile per charge limitation though. I'm guessing you are not using active braking to recharge the batteries when you slow down. I wonder what that would do for your efficiency?

[martinroger]

Using braking energy to recharge batteries has a low efficiency. You could use supra-conductors ( me and 10 other engineer dudes are currently making a buggy with that principle ) to get that energy, but it needs a different DC/DC converter than this one, and a different architecture for the electric parts. Plus, it needs a tougher controller... we, for the car, are going to use a Bus CAN protocol, and have the central micro-processor manage both anti-slide, motor, and super-condos recharging. :)

[computerwiz_222]

Probably not a hole lot... Considering he works 3 miles away... If he brakes lets say 10 times on the way to work. Each brake time is only about 15 seconds. So for a total of 150 seconds he is braking. This adds up to 2 minutes of charge time at very high currents. He might add a couple of miles at the most. I don't think it would be worth it. If he wanted to, he could put some solar panels on it while he is at work to charge it up and then it would have a good range for the ride home...

[Golem100]

A solar charged electric motorcycle is used by the protagonist in Gordon R. Dickson's short story "In Iron Years" from 1980. Good ideas never die.

[xenobiologista]

Unfortunately motorcycles don't have a lot of surface area to stick solar panels on.

[Golem100]

In the short story the solar cells were in a "blanket" that was spread out only when the batteries needed to be charged. It's a great story, check it out.

[SoakedinVancouver]

You stick the panels together on a post, all panels having the same corner to the post, and when you stop, you rotate them out, going from say, 2 square feet when stored to 12 square feet when open... Spaceships (the kind humans send up these days) use all kind of folding tricks too.

[zjharva]

i see you live in pennsylvania from one of the for sale pictures...... where do you live in pennsylvania?

[Stryker]

Media

[barnes]

North Wales / Lansdale here! Perhaps I'll see you cruising around..your nor to far. Amazing work...inspiring..if only I had the money!

[zjharva]

i live in maryland, carroll county.

[jnixon]

Wilmington, Delaware here. Great Instructable!!

[DeadConcious]

My sister lives in just moved to Media. I'm originally from Springfield, but now I live right off One in Chester County. Great instructable, I think I would have shot for a bit more speed and capacity but I guess for your usage this is not necessary. Did you ever check the price of Lion in comparison to SLA?

[jongscx]

Here's a price/performace comparison

Lithium Polymer= Maserati...
Lithium Ion = Porsche
SLA = Civic

on the other hand, a car battery is that beat-up screaming metal deathtrap of a chevy scottsdale in your great-uncle's back-yard that you've never actually seen running, but have heard it runs.

If you can afford them, LIon or LiPoly would be amazing (see electric motorcycle dragster) but cost is just too much right now unless you're going for ridiculous performance.

[nerys]

Have you considered NIMH ? Large Format Nimhs are illegal (Chevron Patent) but you can get 10 and now 12 amp D cells. 60 of them would get you your 72v and you an use ALL the power not just HALF like SLA's so 180 D cells would get you a 72v 30 or 36amp hour battery pack. what is the AMP hour rating of those D51's ? (BTW you should be able to build the 180cell pack for around $900 not sure how I would charge it)

[computerwiz_222]

This would work, but charging would be difficult. You would have lots of independent charge controllers wired in on every second battery. (Depending on how you charge them) If you were to charge these in series, the last of the cells would get the least amount of charging and the batteries would need to be rotated. Another problem is that there is no way you are going to draw 30 to 36 amps through the first D cell battery in the pack. This would burn it up. The first D would have the most stress. I don't think they make D cell holders that can handle this kind of current either...

[nerys]

Hmm I am missing something here what your saying does not seem to fly with any battery pack I have ever used. I have may 6 7 and 9 and more cell battery packs and never have I had what you describe to be happening. Actually 36amps is not a lot really Some high end sub C cells can dump 50amps or more without much trouble. Plus since I would be using 2 or 3 packs each pack would be taking a third of the load (12amps each pack EASILY withing the range of these cells not even really stressing them much at that rate) Where did you get this info on first cell taking higher load and last cell not charging as much. NO battery pack would be possible if this were true. Even your CAR battery is actually a battery "pack" with 6 cells inside at 2 volts each.

[computerwiz_222]

Most cordless phone battery packs work in a similar configuration. 3 Cells wired in series and charged in series. Usually the first cell is weaker than the other two because it is the first cell to be dumped charge. This is especially true with NICD's. As the batteries age, the dendrites form and puncture the plastic wall. This creates a lower internal resistance. Then the first cell becomes worse and worse as time goes on. Also, I had no idea that high end C cells could dump 50 amps, sorry for calling you on that... Also, I did know about the 6 cells and all that. Most batteries are like than. A23 (12 volt), 9 volts, the 6 volt lantern batteries etc.

[nerys]

SO then this is typical? why would it be a problem then? Or is it not a problem till you have a LOT of cells ? So I would just have to replace the first cell now and then? Where can I get more information on this?

[zjharva]

my boy scout camp is in chester county.......... its camp horseshoe

[basscadetz]

how long does it take to charge it to full?

[incorrigible packrat]

Shweeeet!

[xxgemini]

Wow what an awesome job..... That looks so professional. Ive been wanting to do this for sooo long. Either with a bike or a jetski.

[orangetiki]

kudos. great build

[LancePenney]

If I did something like this I believe I would also invest in a decent sized solar array to charge the bike and also add to the household power. Great job on the bike, It's awesome!

[RFilyaw]

Yeah. I could see having a series of solar panels rolled up on the back of the bike, so that when you park it, you roll the whole thing out across the length of the bike and attach it to the handlebars. That would kick arse.

[stunami]

How much does it weight compared to before? My buddy lives overseas, but his dead Suzuki Katana is just sitting at his parent's house. I'm thinking about taking some liberty with his bike before he moves back. How does it handle as well? I would imagine the loss of moving parts makes it stable, but it looks like it weighs more, and has a higher center of gravity. I give you a Super A+!!!

[Stryker]

I didn't weight it on a scale but I believe it's lighter than the original and it handles great. As for the Katana that is the bike I'm using for my next one.

[lasersage]

having never ridden an electric bike don't take this a certain but: internal combustion motorcycles are stable thanks to the moving parts, the recipricating motion of the pistons up and down (usually) creates a gyroscopic force which the bike likes to stay in line with. most riders will know this, as by keeping revs high and slipping the clutch you can crawl very slowly and stay upright (for a while, then you start to burn clutch). The lack of pistons will make it inherantly unstable, great for fast chicanes but more prone to wobble on the motorway. MotoGP yams have counterrotating cranks to cancal the gyroscopic forces and produce this effect.

[totally_screwed]

lasersage
Assuming that balance on a pedal bicycle is broadly similar to that of a motorcycle at low speeds, the gyroscopic forces have been demonstrated by counter rotating wheels to be irrelevant to stability. Balance is achieved by body positioning, which is why we have to learn how to ride. If gyroscopic forces were significant at low speeds, there would be never be any need to learn how to balance except for starting. Skilled cyclists and motorcyclists on trials machines can 'track-stand' without any forward motion. Clearly, on a motorcycle, because of the riding position, shifting one's balance is not quite as easy as on a push bike. The lack of significant rotating mass in the engine is irrelevant to low speed stability. Clearly the more massive construction of a motorcycle and the much higher speeds that can be attained, mean that the gyroscopic forces from wheels, tyres etc. can be much greater than with a pedal bicycle and may become significant.

PS Since pistons reciprocate and do not rotate, they therefore cannot contribute any genuine gyroscopic forces.

Note FYI, AFAIK, the fastest unassisted solo pedal bicycle [fully faired] was rider Sam Whittingham, October 5, 2002: 81 mph, (130km/h)!, on level ground measured over one mile. Clearly, most pedal bicycles are very significantly slower than this.

[lasersage]

look i don't want to get into an argument about this, but the facts remain. if you want to ride a motorbike very slowly, i.e. do a turn in the road, then high(ish) revs, clutch slip, and a little rear brake means you can crawl, as soon as the engine revs drop you topple. Any (skilled) motorcyclist can confirm this.
As for trials, i agree track stands are easy on a push bike (especially up hill) and do-able on mototrials bikes, but you compare the weight of a mototrials bike to my 900 and i think you'll find you can do what you like with body position, if you don't put your feet down you're gonna be on your arse.

its not as clear as i would like, but i was glad to find articles from a simple google search confirms my points:

http://motorcycles.suite101.com/article.cfm/low_speed_riding

hope this clears things up a bit, i ought to do a low speed control instructable :)

[Cylvre]

Careful reading of that article shows that it supports the argument for tire gyro as much as engine gyro, it even mentions them side-by-side each time. Also, while It supports your slip-the-clutch-and-rear-brake, it also says that low speed riding requires more balance. So, what I'm getting at here is the article you're citing supports everyone else's argument as much as yours. Pretty pointless in a debate.

[lasersage]

This will be my last post on the subject as I am tired of re-reading comments saying similar things. To finally sum up, all I was saying was in response to stunami's "How does it handle as well? I would imagine the loss of moving parts makes it stable, but it looks like it weighs more, and has a higher center of gravity." And the point I wanted to make was that at low speed (<10mph) without the gyroscopic assistance of the engine, the machine will be less stable. I'm sure the wheels will make the dominating gyro force at a higher speed.

[granolape]

No one has mentioned fork rake yet. I don't fully understand the effect, but essentially, the longer the fork rake, the more stable the bike with be. It is what allows for counter-steering and leaning in turns. If forks were aligned vertically then it would be almost impossible to ride a bike. The trade-off for stability is responsiveness (race bikes have steeper fork rakes and are much more responsive, but less stable. While harley's have a huge rake and you could ride for miles without your hands on the bars without worrying).

[wingbatwu]

It's not the engine, it's the wheels. Proof: Bicycles

[romedeiros1970]

Yep. Angular momentum of the wheels is what makes it stable. That is also why bigger wheels make for more stable bikes.

[lasersage]

not true i'm afraid. the momentum of the wheels is what keeps you stable at speed and requires counter steering to corner effectively, but it most definately is the engine gyro which keeps you stable at lower speed. by revving to between 2 and 3 thousand rpm (torque of bike depending) and slipping the clutch you can crawl at much less than walking pace. At this speed the wheel gyro is totally insignificant. (rear brake is used to modulate speed, revs and clutch slip should remain aprox constant). I do agree that on a push bike (with no cylinders to think of) larger wheels are more stable due to gyro. this does also apply to bikes, but only when the wheels are turning at some speed.

[BytePilot]

Ahm, Ain't no such thing as "engine gyro" the force provided by the mass of the engine rotating components (especially at low speed) is negligible compared to the mass of the bike and rider. To say nothing of the way that the rotating masses are not all be going in the same direction. The pistons, being reciprocating motion and not rotational will have no effect either way. How do I know this ? I measured. On a stationary bike the balance force required to hold the bike vertical. No difference with engine running of off. Why ? I wanted to make a gyrocycle and thought it would be cool if it could balance upright on its own. It can't unless the gyro is really heavy or turning really fast. What keeps you stable at lower speeds is a low CofG, a fairly wide tyre/ground contact patch (overpressure your tyres, narrow the patch and try it, actually don't) and the very finely tuned adaptive autonomic feedback system that us bipeds have for staying upright under the most adverse conditions. Sez I, and in this case, I knows.

[romedeiros1970]

Darn toot'n.

[Jake Turner]

Wow, wow, wow! All very impressive, aside from the 10 mile charge. (my job is 80 miles south, see.) Very clean and professional-looking. Faved and one-upped.

[omnibot]

I love this instructable. Great project.

[HazardRush]

if there is nothing in the gas tank, you could make a door somehow and use it for storage

[Stryker]

I guess you can't really tell from the photo's but the battery rack goes all the way up to the top inside the tank. I had to use every inch of space on that bike to fit everything.

[TheScientist]

have you thought about putting some sort of charging device on it for when the motor is not getting used, but the bike is moving? so under braking you are recharging the batteries, or if you're just coasting you do some charging? it would improve your range (which, while you yourself do not need it, it could be more attractive for people buying it), potentially without costing much more as well.

[Stryker]

There already is a regenerative braking process, but it's a little complicated if you don't have the right components. There is a scooter on the market that lets you turn the throttle the other way to brake/regenerate electricity. It's a toss up with this technology for cost versus actual energy you will get back into your batteries.

[cvxdes]

Just curious, about what was the final cost? And, do you think it's street legal?

[Stryker]

I have a cost break down on my website but it was over $3000. I know you can just buy a regular bike for less than that, but that's not the point. Yes it is completely street legal. Licensed, inspected and insured.

[Imonotesh]

If you were to use the lithium- polymer batteries how much range increase do you think you would get?

[Stryker]

I'm really not sure I would guess double or triple the range. The next bike that I am doing will have LiPo batteries, a variable speed drive and belt drive so it should be a lot lighter and faster.

[Marioman]

That is the most amazing thng i evr saw

[Stryker]

Thanks, but wait till you see my next one.

[rc jedi]

LIPO BATTERIES the best price i have found at:

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?catname=Li%2DPoly+%28All+brands%29&idCategory=86&ParentCat=85
Hobbycity Online R/C Hobby Store : Li-Poly (All brands)

Great project, I always wondered how to control the high power,we had cushman electric pallet jacks with massive lead acid batteries. We tooled around the warehouse at crazy speeds just missing each other.....oh sorry.
anyway, keep us up to date about performance like mileage and battery longevity...........................bravo!

[!Andrew_Modder!]

me like

[Ferrite]

Great idea. It looks much better with the new paint job.

[mastert]

Wow this is really cool you should post a vid of it in action

[LinuxH4x0r]

Wow, I've always wanted to make one, but this is way too expensive for me. I might build a budget version if I get a chance

[teaaddict314]

you should get better batteries or a more efficient motor or something, that thing doesnt get very far on a charge.

[pyro13]

Wow. That's insane. I think i would buy a brand new bullet bike for 3000, but still very nice! Well done and looks great!

[schorhr]

Maybee you can build an array of cheap Lithium-Polymer cells from hobbycity.com? Regular NiMH are not suitable for such high currents, so NiCd or LiPo are the way to go (Though NiCd are probably more robust)

[DjProToJeeX]

i love the build im a very enthusiastic when it comes to motorcycles and electronic motors. keep up the good work and you have my vote..

dont forget to vote in the burning questions round 4. read my entry's and if you like it vote for it..

[duck-lemon]

Ya know it is not user decided it is up to the judges.

[ac1D]

Please, stop asking for a vote in all your comment! I did not vote ONLY becose of that.

[DjProToJeeX]

hawdly

[PKM]

I'm with ac1D, comments running into a complete non-sequitur plug for your competition entry remind me of those spam bots that comment on video sites with stuff like "Haha, cool video. BUY CHEAP CIALIS HERE!!! L00K ! ! !". I know your comment was a genuine one but we could do without the vote scrounging, and messages like that make me less likely to vote, not more.

[duck-lemon]

hey this is cool +1 favourite and bookmark. and vote!

[sardines454]

Very good job. This is the kind of instructable that gives instructables its fame and great reputation. Keep up the good work!

[Stryker]

Thanks to everyone for your nice comments.

[hutt]

really awesome!! maybe someday i build one of these! just a question, how long does it takes to fully charge it? and what about energy consumption??

[Stryker]

Thanks. I'm not exactly sure how long it takes to charge fully, but my on board charger just shuts off when it's done. I have been plugging in at work around noon and it's done when I leave at 5pm.

[hutt]

VOTED! =) (didnt know about the green competition til pkm's comment)

[PKM]

Voted for in the green competition after just reading the title :) but that could be because I have a huge thing for home-built EVs. Your writeup seems to cover most of the major issues involved, but you could still go into a little more detail without risking writers' cramp- there's plenty of detail about the parts but your explanation of the build is quite brief. Although you didn't actually do the welding, you could still go into the issues of finding a suitable placement for the batteries in terms of good frame mounting points and where the centre of mass ends up, and making sure the motor is properly aligned. Anyway- I'm in the process of applying for a bike license with the eventual aim of building one of these, and this has reminded me that they aren't just for die-hard bike nuts with their own fully equipped shop, so I can't not give you a +

[Stryker]

Thanks, I'll work on adding to the build. Maybe doing my next one will remind me of some important steps.

[depayton]

You should build another one and see how much you can get for it on ebay. If you can get the mileage up I bet you would'nt have a problem selling them for around 5,000.00 since electric powered vehicles are in high demand and the demand is only going to get higher.

[xrobevansx]

dude, you seriously should have this up on ebay...you would clean up! SWEET INSTRUCTABLE!

[GorillazMiko]

Awesome! Detailed extremely nicely, great job, and nice job getting featured! You're awesome!