How to fix and then extract a fence post with ease

 by robz40
post presentation in concrete.jpg
Here's a video about this method.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A8i6mouohw
 
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Step 1: Traditional method

post  in concrete only.jpg
I stopped using it a while ago, I care about my customers and myself.
f1dd13r says: Apr 17, 2013. 3:15 AM
Nice .
Where to get large amounts of silicone? and where to get the bags from?
robz40 (author) in reply to f1dd13rApr 17, 2013. 6:10 AM
bags from http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/easyfencing , you don't need a large amount of silicone about 1/2 tube per post and you can get good prices from ebay or use flexacryl which is much stickier and better but more expensive.
andrea biffi says: Nov 14, 2012. 1:18 PM
really interesting
Mr.Miz says: Oct 5, 2010. 7:23 AM
Couldn't you just put the plastic bag around the post and then stick it in concrete then the concrete wouldn't bond to the post? I've never tried it, but wouldn't it make a concrete sleeve?
robz40 (author) in reply to Mr.MizOct 6, 2010. 2:34 AM
Not advisable, the post is never perfect and it would be just as hard to extract it. You need a gap, trust me on that. Or you can make an experiment ;-)
rimar2000 says: Sep 30, 2010. 5:02 PM
Maybe this work worth if you think to extract the post soon. But for me, when I put a post I think it will last many many years.
robz40 (author) in reply to rimar2000Sep 30, 2010. 11:27 PM
"But for me, when I put a post I think it will last many many years." fair comment, posts should (underline should ) last many years but it all depends on ground conditions, execution and natural events (eg storms). On the video I posted, the pictures at minutes 0:36 and 0|:37 do actually come from one of my customers and the fence had been previously installed only 3 years earlier. All because of this http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2009/ht20091117.html
rimar2000 in reply to robz40Oct 1, 2010. 4:08 AM
Well, do not feel bad. What happens is that here in Argentina, or at least in the area where I live, the posts are almost all of break-ax (quebracho), a very hard and heavy wood that will not rot, and therefore they are plowed under without cement aggregate. Moreover, here the storms aren't frequent, and hurricanes are a very rare thing.
robz40 (author) in reply to rimar2000Oct 1, 2010. 5:23 AM
All comments are welcome rimar2000 and I still feel good because my customers love the new system :-) I live and work in Britain and here the weather is pretty fresh, damp and windy, that's why fence posts may not last many years. In Britain fence posts are generally made of pine wood treated with CCB compounds (Chromium, Copper and Boron). CCA compounds (A stands for Arsenic) were used in the past and were more effective but it has now been banned thus making the posts last even less than they used to.
rimar2000 in reply to robz40Oct 1, 2010. 6:14 AM
Here some people process the soft wood posts (spruce, eucalyptus, palm, etc) with hot tar (asphalt), it seems it enhances the protection, but I don't know details. Your system is good, surely.
paperrhino says: Sep 30, 2010. 11:01 AM
This is a very clever solution though it would not do much good in an area that has a highly mobile clay like soil (e.g. North Texas). When we need to replace a fence post in this area, it is often because the ground moved, causing the post and concrete foundation to tilt, eliminating the possibility of reusing the foundation in this way.
robz40 (author) in reply to paperrhinoSep 30, 2010. 11:58 PM
(removed by author or community request)
robz40 (author) in reply to robz40Oct 1, 2010. 12:37 AM
Hi paperrhino, thank you for you comment. Even on clay soil it is a win win situation. Let me explain. This method leaves a gap of about 25mm all around the post so even if the foundation moves a little there is still margin to manoeuvre by leaving a non uniform gap around and keep the new post straight when it gets fixed in the same way. Should you need to replace the foundation completely it is much easier to break up in pieces a hollow "cement pipe" than a solid lump of concrete. Pictures added to illustrate the result
dchall8 says: Sep 30, 2010. 11:12 AM
On the surface this looks like a great idea, but it is a lot of extra work for the original installer.  He has to dig a bigger hole to fit both the sand and concrete.  He has to use considerably more concrete (twice as much??).  There would be more materials required with the addition of the sand, the extra long Subway sandwich bags, and the little pieces of foam and tie wraps.  And there is additional labor involved in bagging the post before dropping it in the hole. 

The video does a good job of showing the various ways of extracting an old post, and implies that extracting this post would be easier.  I don't understand why that would be. Yes you don't have to hoist the concrete, but you still have to get a grip on the post and pull it out somehow.  Seems like the traditional extraction methods are still needed. 

As for reinstalling a new post if you ever have to: that was really glossed over in the video.  If you have removed the post and vacuumed the sand, how do you put a new bagged post in without ripping the bag on the concrete?  And if the new bagged post goes in that easily, wouldn't it be loose?  Or do you set a new, bare post and then just fill with sand around it? 

Are posts supposed to last longer using your method?  It would seem like they would if they are kept dry. 
robz40 (author) in reply to dchall8Sep 30, 2010. 11:06 PM
Hi dchall8 Tx for your comments, they are a good contribution.
the method requires more work but not considerable more work. the diamater of the socket filled with sand is about 190mm=7&1/2 inches so if you dig a standard hole 1ft wide that leaves a gap between the post and the ground of about (300-190)/2= 55mm=2inches. Personnaly I do not use ballast and cement but sand and cement for the job either dry or wet according to the job. The added material cost per post is about £5 (maybe 8$) but replacing a concreted broken post is considerably more, typically I charge at least 100$ because of the labour and extra materials involved.

the post socket is 900=3ft long to cover any conditions but can be cut to size to fit a 500 or 600mm (2ft) deep hole s I normally do.

Traditional extraction methods are not needed.When the sand is extracted there is nothing gripping the post and it comes out with ease.

The bag is quite robust and can be reused as it stands. I concede that accidents might happen and a new bag is needed. That is not a problem as you insert the bag first into the hole , a bit of sand then the post and fill it with sand which will expand the bag

As you said keeping the moisture out of the base of the post makes it last longer. Should any water penetrate anyway you would not be in a worst condition the the traditional post and concrete method and as a precaution you can always add boron salts at the base of the socket. The water would dissolve the salts with would penetrate the wood thus preserving the wood.

I have been using this method for 3 years and no customers has called me back to replace any of the posts.
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