## Step 6: Balance Charging

There are two ways to charge a battery like this. You can either apply 4.2 volts to individual cells or you can apply 16.8 volts to the whole battery. While the latter is more simple, in this case the former is better because we are using used cells. When new packs are made, they all use new batteries of the same amp hour capacity. This way they can be charged hundreds of times without going out of balance. However, balancing will extend the service life of any pack. With our pack, the batteries are in various states of wear and amp hour capacity, therefore balancing is a must. A balanced battery is one in which all the cells remain the same voltage.

Let me explain how packs can become unbalanced and why that is really bad. Batteries will inevitably wear our at slightly different rates. Say the voltage of each cell in your pack is 4.2 volts after charging when new.

Cell 1 is 4.2
Cell 2 is 4.2
Cell 3 is 4.2
Cell 4 is 4.2
Whole battery is 16.8 volts

Now say one of the batteries has started to wear out. They manifest their wear by sometimes refusing to charge all the way to 4.2 volts. Now cell 4 only charges to 3.8 volts. The charger doesn't know this but still charges to 16.8 volts and the other cells are charged higher to compensate.

Cell 1 is 4.3
Cell 2 is 4.3
Cell 3 is 4.3
Cell 4 is 3.8
Whole battery is 16.8 volts

You can see how one bad cell could destroy the good ones because the others are overcharged. Balance chargers never charge cells above 4.2 volts and they can tell you if one cell refuses to charge completely. My charger has four lights and shows blue for fully charged and red for not there yet. They make a volt meter here that is perfect for monitoring the health of cells.

Balance chargers are more common in hobby batteries.  People use lithium polymer (LIPO for short) batteries to power model helicopters, airplanes, boats, etc.  LIPOs are cheaper and tougher, better for surviving crashes.  They require more balancing then lithium ion.  Some have C rates of 50!  That means a 5 amp hour battery could supply 250 amps and completely discharge in only a few minutes!  The chemistries are almost the same so the chargers are interchangeable.  I suggest looking through Hobbyking so you know what all is out there.  They have an especially dizzying array of chargers.
<p>Hi! I'd like to ask if you can use the battery pack while charging it if I made it this way?<br><br>I plan to power a portable device with a similar method to your battery pack (with balance connector), I want to be able to use the device while charging it, like a Laptop, is it possible If i follow that method?<br><br>Amazing tutorial btw!</p>
I'd like to know if it's possible to connect two 6s4p battery packs which i bought from http://www.dnkpower.com/battery-solution/lithium-ion-battery-pack/ in series to double the voltage? <br><br>can anyone help me
<p>Of course you can. the capacity will remain the same, but the voltage will double. Hope this helps.</p>
<p>if the charger has to know the voltage of each battery independently to smart/balance charge them, the how is it that the wires to the charger are connected to 3 batteries at a time ?</p>
<p>Whenever I try to put 3rd battery in slot, it starts generating heat getting red immediately forcing me to withdraw 3rd battery. What should I do? </p>
<p>Thank you very much for all your effort. Very detailed and very well explained. Many thanks.</p><p>Antony</p>
<p>can you advise a board for 4s4p on aliexpress ? for example</p><p> <a href="https://tr.aliexpress.com/item/4A-5A-PCB-BMS-Protection-Board-for-4-Packs-18650-Li-ion-lithium-Battery-Cell/" rel="nofollow">https://tr.aliexpress.com/item/4A-5A-PCB-BMS-Prote...</a>32581245955.html?spm=2114.010208.3.70.9z5kr6&amp;ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10056_10065_10055_10068_10054_10069_10059_10073_10017_10070_10060_10061_10052_10062_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_3&amp;btsid=2f1f8179-8987-4db3-8b58-7928095e4f89</p>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laptop-Battery-for-Dell-Latitude-E6400-E6410-E6500-E6510-PT434-KY265-MP303-W1193-/381772743867?var=&amp;hash=item58e36dc4bb:m:mWX6-uvVu9CpnJm6yeBV3mQ
I have bought new laptop batteries that are inexpensive because of being a high demand battery. Tgen i take them apart to get the 18650 batteries. Benifits are i get 6 or more same batteries with solder tabs and it costs about 10 to 12 bucks delevered. And they are good ones also. Just thought i would share.
<p>what model laptop do you find the cheapest battery for?</p>
i just look for laptop batt then narrow down to but it now, then organize lowest price. here is a new 6 cell 5200mah for dell e6500 for 13.00.<br>this should help find deals.
It IS Great.I think i can use the method to make a lithium polymer battery pack. like this <br><br>http://www.unitbattery.com/product/12V-rechargeable-lithium-polymer-battery-pack-6800mah-for-cctv-camera.html
<p>Hello! I'd like to follow your amazing instructable! <br><br>I have a question tho.. the balance port is the only port required for charging?<br><br>I remember using a LiPo Balance Charger before, i used to connect the Balance port and the +/- of the Output<br><br></p>
<p>Hey I'm new to this hopefully you can help... Want to make a 18v battery pack for powertool i want to work with 2p5s configuration with 18650 cells ... Now live seen couple things that might help but I'm not shut soooo. Here's a list of the things</p><p>18650 cell of course, a pcb with balancing</p><p>http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&amp;id=181949529109&amp;alt=web</p><p>A power supply http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&amp;id=271666854840&amp;alt=web </p><p>Or a adjustable power supply http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&amp;id=321829513465&amp;alt=web. Would this even work i mean I've never done this before but indeed to do this for my personal tools but my problem is in in Puerto Rico and I don't have a place to go to and ask my questions so I decided to ask you guy's. A lot of questions but for now with these items mentioned will they work for what I want? Or if possible link me what would help. Please thanks for all your time..... Let me know....</p>
<p><a href="http://www.evlithium.com/lithium-battery-balancer.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.evlithium.com/lithium-battery-balancer....</a></p><p>balancing current from the separate battery balancer would reach 6A at max.</p><p>much better performance on balancing battery cells</p>
<p>its better to use separate battery balancer rather than a balance charger or charger with balancing function.</p>
<p>What should I use for a motorcycle battery, specially because it has to work with the original alternator....I dont think the usual pcb's works right with it, so maybe something like a led driver before? (alternator from 0 - 14,4 volt)</p>
<p>Is it possible to connect these PCB's in series or parallel? I'd like to know if it's possible to connect two 6s4p battery packs in series to double the voltage? I'd prefer a 12s controller but can't seem to find any online.</p>
<p>I have a 13s I am working on bulding currently.<br><a href="http://www.batterysupports.com/44v-48v-504v-12s-30a-12x-36v-lithium-ion-lipolymer-battery-bms-p-268.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.batterysupports.com/44v-48v-504v-12s-30...</a></p>
<p>I think you meant a 12s, but thanks that is a great find! Could you perhaps answer my question about connecting them in series/parallel though? For example say I have two 4s4p battery packs running at 14.8v each and delivering a maximum of 15 amps each. Could I connect them in series to get one 29.6v pack, or parallel and get one 14.8v pack but capable of delivering 30 amps? I understand that charging them in series might be an issue?<br><br>Basically I would like to build a modular system that can be easily expanded by adding more modules?</p>
<p>Nope, 13s. It's a pretty standard replacement size for Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) x4. SLA are called commonly called 12 volt batteries when actuality they are 13.2 volts fully charged. When placed in series by 4 (48v applications) the actual charged value is 52.8 Volts. This configuration is used in wheelchairs, lawn mowers, golf carts, ebikes, etc. A Li Ion max charge is 4.2 Volt each. 12x4.2=50.4, not high enough for the max voltage. I choose to run a 13s @ 4.2v each for 54.6 V.</p><p>As for your groupings, why would you do it that way? Is it not modular enough at 4p8s or 8p4s? I would think the 8s4p would be a pretty good way to go with a 2A charger and a BCM. This would charge them at 500ma each.<br>BCM:<a href="http://www.batterysupports.com/lifepo4-nbsp-24v-nbsp-8s-c-32_34.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.batterysupports.com/lifepo4-nbsp-24v-nb...</a><br>Charger:<a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/8S-28-8V-29-6V-Li-ion-Li-Po-Battery-Intelligent-Smart-33-6V-2A-Charger-for-US-/221896637604" rel="nofollow">http://www.ebay.com/itm/8S-28-8V-29-6V-Li-ion-Li-P...</a><br>You could create a &quot;battery bank&quot;, and have it be removable. But don't run a charged battery and a discharged battery together in any circuit ever, unless you isolate them from one another. Bad things could happen.</p>
Would the board you use still work if I only connected 2 sets of four? Because I only need 5v and (please correct me if I'm wrong) if I have 4 of them then it would give out about 16.8v, and if I only had 2 of them it would only give 8.4v. Also, hoe would I connect a RCA cord to a USB/Micro USB? <br> <br>Thank you!
use a 3.7 to 5v boost board
<p>I love this project. I am a total novice when it comes to electronics but it is very interesting. I am trying to build a light weight battery to run my telescope. It will run on the 11.1 volt configuration. I have 21 good cells, so I was going to place them in a S3P7 configuration. My question to you is, can you recommend a PCB for that configuration? I the one you have is only for a P4? I do not understand that part of the build. Thank you so much for posting such a cool idea.</p>
just look on ebay
<p>Please correct me if i'm wrong here but the charge profile of a li-ion is constant current then constant voltage with capacity measured by current dropping off. if you are using a balance charger across 4 cells in parallel the current will be 4x higher than its expecting thus providing incorrect feedback to the balance charger.? you could over charge your batteries</p>
it just acts like a bigger battery
So where is the best place to get cheap or free batteries / cells?
<p>Get used laptop cells from your local recycling site, usually there only 2 or 1 damaged cells inside, that make the pack fail, so the consumer throws it away, although the other cells are in a good used condition.</p>
why 16.8volt you could just make a 7.2 volt battery pack use an 7805 to bring to 5 volts and give your self even more amp hours
<p>You would want a buck converter which can handle up to 2A draw. Its about 90% efficient, whereas the lm7805 dissipates the excess voltage as heat.</p><p>boost converters step up voltage and drop max current, which is not possible in dc-dc applications using a transformer. </p>
<p>use a car adapter to usb, they can take 5-24 volts in and 5 volts out</p>
What is a 7805?
l7805cv is a 5v regulator brings the 7.2-12v down to 5 volts but needs a heatsing for voltages higher then 7.2 or if it going to be under heavy load.<br>what i use with my diy mobile charger 2 18650 in series for 7.2 volt then reduced to 5 volt by the 7805 ok losses of heat but if you look at that compared to a dc -dc converter that can use 1.5amp the little loss in heat is worth it
7805 are extremely inefficient power-wise (hence the heat sinking). They burn of excess voltage with current as heat. Since the real rating of a battery pack is watt-hours, 1. rearranging the batteries for a different voltage wont change the energy capacity (watt-hours) and 2. a 7805 will drastically reduce the effective watt-hours.
i was compareing ah dc to dc boost converter like they minty boost to a 7805
the 7805 is self adjusting resistive voltage splitter, really. you're not gainging any amp-hours by using it, but you are reducing the voltage.
<p>Very nice!</p>
i think i just found 18650 at 5000mah (5amph) will know more when money comes to get them
<p>those dont exist.</p>
Be careful here.<br><br>I HAVE found some 4200mAh rated 18650 cells, but they were Ni-MH(like here http://www.all-battery.com/browseproducts/One--4-3-AF-%2818650-Size%29-4200-mAh-high-capacity-NiMH-battery.html).<br><br>Those are completely different animals from Li-Ion 18650s.<br><br><br>You COULD use them for the same style project, but you'd need a different charger/charging setup.<br><br>Not to mention, they are still 1.2 volt.<br>So to get equal capacity...<br>for every two 18650 Li-Ion cells(we'll use an &quot;average&quot; 2600mAh@3.7v) you would need 3 18650 Ni-MH cells.<br>2x2600mAh@3.7v = 5200mAh@3.7v<br>3x4200mAh@1.2v = 4200mAh@3.6v<br><br>Trade offs are, safer to use/charge, but more weight, more space, less capacity, and good luke finding cheap/free Ni-MH.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=270821277749&amp;clk_rvr_id=275620926262&amp;item=270821277749&amp;lgeo=1&amp;vectorid=229508<br><br>were the ones i was looking at to me it says 10x 18650 at 5000mah but it could also be 10 18650 5000mah total.<br>just depends id wording is right
I don't trust several brands of 18650s like trustfire and Ultrafire. They are poor quality batteries and they overestimate their capacity. There is no way a single 18650 could be 5 amp hours. A good quality cell could be no more than 3 amp hours. The cells on batteryspace are expensive but I am sure they are legit.
you are very right they turned out to be 1100mah
<p>Very informational instructable! I'm planning on using it to make a battery pack for a quadcopter. Originally, I was planning to use Panasonic NCR18650B's for it, but then I found <a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/18650-3200mAh-3-7V-Rechargeable-Li-ion-Battery-for-UltraFire-LED-Flashlight-DB-/261530668000" rel="nofollow">these on eBay</a>. What do you think - can I use these? I'm going for ~ 2 C discharge rate. Thanks!</p>
<p>dont even buy those. they are so fake. buy a 12 cell laptop battery from amazon.</p>
<p>Dear experts,</p><p>Look like you can solve the problem that I am facing now.</p><p>I have about 20 x 5mw lasers and I need to design a system to drive it. At the moment I have 8 x 3.7V batteries (18650) connected in series and I found that even if I don't turn them on for a few days all the batteries became flat. Maybe because some of them are faulty and used up all the power?</p><p>The system that I am going to design include a Microchip PIC16F876A which needs 5V to drive it. So should I connect 2S4P (2 in series &amp; 4 in parallel) and use a voltage regulator to regulate it to 5V? I want to monitor it and charge them when required. Is this a good way to connect them? My concern is if one of them faulty then the whole thing will upset? How to avoid this? What is the best practice? I heard you guys mentioned about charging/discharging protection device - will this help? What sort of charger should I use because I am going to use this one from ebay to charge it:</p><p><a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/5A-DC-to-DC-CC-CV-Lithium-Battery-Charger-Board-LED-Drive-Power-Converter-Module-/131065598006?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e841e5036" rel="nofollow">http://www.ebay.com/itm/5A-DC-to-DC-CC-CV-Lithium-...</a></p><p>If you have any suggestion please let me know.</p><p>Many thanks in advance</p>
<p>use a 12v car adapter to usb, they take 5-24 volts and regulate it down to 5v 1A</p>
seems everyone here is an expert,could you please help me?<br> I am using lifepo4 7 cells in series 2 in parallel,i dont know what kind of PCM I shoud use,my machine need 100A to boost first,then after started,the current only need around 30-50A.<br> <br> Please help to choose one good PCM from BesTech Power.