Introduction: Making Dimensional Recycled HDPE Stock for Projects

The Need--- Restore an 1871 Apple Cider Press with Easily Cleaned, Non Deteriorating Parts

A friend acquired an 1871 apple cider press, the unit was complete, but all the wooden parts were rotten or termite infested and hollowed out, the metal parts were rusted and most were frozen and immoveable.

The metal parts were soaked in an electrolysis bath (electrolytic rust removal instructables) and were freed up to be disassembled, wire brushed, painted or seasoned like a cast iron frying pan and reassembled to a functional state.

The wooden frame work of the press was replaced with new wood.

Since this was to be a functioning press my friend wanted the bottom tray, fruit buckets, bucket sleds, and press plates made of food safe high density polyethene (hdpe) for easy cleanup and rot resistance.

Food grade hdpe is much more expensive than the wood it replaced. So we started trying to see if were could recycle hdpe to make the parts for the press. The following is a 6 month research project that is still ongoing, we have successfully made consistent dimensional stock, 3/4"x6"x20" (that is the longest mold we can get into the oven), 1-1/2" x 6"x 20" pieces (currently only have 6" sides, oven would allow 10" if I had the side material), 12" diameter x 1-1/2" disks (can make thinner), wheels 2" diameter to 6" diameter up to 6" wide. rod material 3/4" diameter to 3" up to 8" long (again oven size in limiting factor)

Since the initial project additional projects have added. A low cost strip sander needed a replacement idler wheel with bearing, knobs for shop made jigs, runners for shop made jigs, bracket for a shop made mouse trap, a future project of beehive boxes, supers, and half supers, and wheels for a shop made 2"x72" belt grinder 2", 5", and 12".

Step 1: Getting Started

Several instructables and on line tutorials were viewed. All made small irregular shaped blocks that were carved into mallet, hammer, slingshots, jewelry, or a small pulley. The piece needed for the fruit buckets was 3/4x1-1/4-x12 inches considerably longer than any of the previous instructions.

One method was to melt the hdpe in hot oil and force the melted hdpe into a wooden mold to make blocks. This method did not seem to be scalable to make larger pieces.

Another was to heat the hdpe in a toaster oven and again hand form the plastic into a wooden mold, again it was felt this method would not produce larger uniform pieces.

The method that was tried first was using the toaster oven to heat the hdpe and use a metal baking pan as the mold. A 9x13 pan was used and the results were discouraging. The hdpe was in chunks just as it was placed in the pan. On another try some of the hdpe flowed out into the pan and other stayed chunky. This led to another mystery, what was the difference in hdpe #2 plastic?

Step 2: Testing the Hdpe for Flow

Hdpe from different items was tested, it was determined that lids and plastic bucket hdpe flowed when heated to 375 degrees for 90 minutes (max time on toaster oven timer). It was also determined that bottles, barrels, jugs, and large items like portable basketball hoop bases and children playhouses did not flow.

Material from a drum (material thickness varies from less than 1/4" to over 3/8") was heated on a cookie sheet and when pliable (60 minutes at 375 degrees in toaster oven) was pressed between wooden plates, 5/16 hex nuts (17/64 thick) were place on the sheet for a consistent thickness. The nuts are 17/64 thick and the material nominal cooling shrink rate is 3 per cent. Theoretical finished size should be 0.258 inches. or nominally 1/4" material. Actual measurement on the 4x6 inch piece varied from .254 to .295 inch. The clamps were removed after pressing and lead weights were place on the plate eliminating the need to retighten the clamps. This method worked well for producing 1/4" stock for small parts. I since have gotten a 16x20 inch tray to make 1/4" material. Also the toaster oven is supplemented with a regular electric range. Oven dimensions, 13x17x23. This limits my material size to 10x14x22 inches..

Shopping bags were also tested, they do not flow. A small melt of 250 bags yielded less than 1" of material in a soup can mold about 3" in diameter. It was decided that it took too much effort for the amount of material achieved. These might be revisited after a solution for larger dimensional stock is achieved.

Step 3: Trying to Make Thicker Stock From Thinner Bottle Material (non-flowing)

The next need was to make 3/4" stock for the fruit buckets on the cider press.

Milk jugs were chosen to make the material. The jugs were cut up into small piece 1/4" to 1/2" squares, Some strips1/4 x 2 to 3 inches. They were placed in a 9x13 pan, parchment paper (available at the grocery store usually by the aluminum foil) was placed on the bottom of the pan and the sides were sprayed with silicone lubricant (available at hardware store or Walmart in automotive chemicals). The hdpe was heated to 375 degrees for 90 minutes. Then was pressed like in the previous step, but no hex nuts were used as spacers. After pressing the clamps were removed and the weights were placed on the plates to keep the hdpe from curling and distorting during cooling. When cool the stock was sawed into strips to see the consistency. In the photos you will see brown lines, this was areas that had milk residue on them and the milk scorched. These areas also did not bond well to each other causing lamination of material that did not adhere. Also note the irregular surface and thickness.

The major failure in this process was the lack of consistent thickness. Also better cleanliness is needed to avoid the adhesion and lamination problem.

Step 4: Trying to Make Thicker Stock From Bucket and Lid Material (flowing)

The next try was using an electrical frying pan as a heat source, it worked reasonably well, but heat was not even as evident from the wrinkly area on the top right side. Cutting the stock it was revealed that there was lack of adhesion and laminations. This was caused by uneven heating and lack of cleanliness.

Step 5: Second Try Using Bucket and Lid HDPE (flowing )

The next attempt was using the toaster oven and a 9x13 pan. The material was the flow type HDPE from plastic buckets and lids. The results were encouraging, but it was difficult to control the thickness. To get uniform thickness the material was weighed so the volume would give a piece over 3/4 of an inch. It was found that the thicker the pieces the more distortion and addition milling was needed to make a repeatable stock. Several attempts were made to get consistency and repeatability, but common factors were not found that gave those results. A different approach was tried.

Step 6: Thinking Outside the Box

Since it was so difficult to fight gravity, it was decided to make a mold that would make the removal of the top and bottom easier.

Mold material

2- metal 2x6 15 inches long (toaster oven is 16" wide)

2- 6" 1x1 aluminum square tubing

1- 1/8x4x16 steel plate

The mold was clamped together with c-clamps for easy assembly, disassembly, and cleaning.

Bucket and lid HDPE was melted at 375 degrees for 180 minutes (2- 90 minute cycles) the resulting piece had a very consistent thickness of 7/8". length was consistent 12-1/4 to 12-1/2 inches. The width was all over, but it was easy to get a finished piece with a 5 inch width. A table saw was used to square the length and width and a jointer/planer reduced the thickness to 3/4 inch. This method allowed for making stock to make 2 slatted fruit buckets for the apple cider press restoration. 15 planks were produced to make 52 3/4x1-1/4x12 inch slats.

Step 7: Cleaning HDPE Off the Molds (cake Pans)

After several batches of HDPE the molds had a build up of charred material.

Scraping would not remove the residue, washing in soap and water did not remove the char.

The method to remove the char is place about 2 tablespoons of baking soda in the pan, add water to fill the pan, place on a burner and heat to a simmer for about an hour. Then allow to cool, empty the water and then using a scouring pad remove the build up. (additional scraping may be necessary)

Step 8: The Making of 12" Diameter Press Plates

A 13" round cake pan was acquired to make the 12" press plates. A disk was made in the toaster oven, but it did not have the heat output to produce a good part. Three attempts were made to make the disks. All had laminations from lack of heating, also cooling was inconsistent causing bottom and top deforming and severe texturing on the top.

A full size electric range was acquired to solve the heat output problem, and it did. A total of 7 disks were produced. The thickness vary from 1 inch to 1-7/8 inch. The distortion was too great to get any parts over 2 inches.

A 13" cast iron skillet was tried for a mold and it produced disk with very flat bottoms and less distortion on the top, but it pulled the cooking residue out of the pores of the cast iron making for a lot of cleanup of the part.

Additional plates have been made and have gotten a 12"x2-1/4". The "secret" is using the 13" cake pan, the HDPE is melted at 375 degrees for it takes about 6 hours to get that volume of HDPE melted, then it is heated at 375 degrees for 2 hours or longer until all the air bubbles stop making domes on the top. Then reset the oven to 250 degrees for 6 hours, then turn off the oven and let the disk cool. The disk produced had a 12-3/4" diameter, bottom distortion was 1/16 inch and the top was smooth with 3/16" distortion. That was the most uniform disk produced to date.

After molding the disks were surfaced on both sides in a shop built planer fixture to be described in a later step. The center of the disk was found and drilled through using a 1/4 inch bit. The disk was then taken to the bandsaw and using shop built fixture was cut round.

Step 9: Latest Techniques for Making Dimensional Stock (flowing)

The material is cut up into pieces to fit in a 9x13 pan

Labels and printing are removed from the HDPE

The pieces are washed in water and dishwashing detergent

The pieces are melted in a 9x13 pan 90 minutes at 375 degrees, if a lot of air bubble domes are visible another 90 minute cycle is added. A piece of parchment paper is placed on the bottom of the pan and the sides are sprayed with silicone.

The mold is assembled. The ends are attached to the sides with the clamps, be sure to get the bottom of the ends pushed down to the table. Once clamped turn mold over, place a piece of parchment paper over the bottom then a piece of aluminum foil (heavy duty) and crimp over the edges so if there is a leak it is contained in foil and not running all over the oven, place the steel plate on the bottom and secure with midget panel clamps. Turn the mold upright and spray inside with silicone spray.

Take the 9x13 piece and cut into smaller pieces 1x4-1/2, Cut down the center the long way then cut into strips approximately one inch wide

Load the mold setting the pieces on edge, by rotating the pieces from horizontal to vertical additional air pockets are reduce and lamination flow out.

Place in oven 375 degrees after an hour check and add more material, keep checking hourly and add material until full, when full bake for another 2 hours, turn off and let cool in oven over night.

Remove from mold, clean up mold (a sharp wood chisel removes most of the material stuck to the mold), trim any flash on the bottom and run through a jointer to true up the bottom edge. Plane the faces to remove distortion and make a consistent size ( 3/4 inch). A piece of 3/4" square tubing is used as a setup gauge for the router bit, place a piece of paper between the end of the bit and the tubing, move the bit down until you can no longer slide the paper between the bit and the tubing, lock the depth setting and the bit should be set correctly. The part can then be sized for a project on a table saw.

Step 10: Making Rod Stock for Knobs and Wheel

Making round stock is similar to flat stock. The difference is the first melt is cut into smaller pieces 1/2x1/2x6 or smaller. The molds are piece of pipe (galvanized is easier to remove the finished piece) 3/4" pipe, 1-1.4", and 2" are used for smaller knobs. Aluminum foil is crimped to the bottom of the pipe, a small piece of parchment paper will prevent the HDPE from adhering to the foil. Place the pipe in an empty can for stability in the oven. Melt at 375 degrees for an hour, add material hourly until filled then heat another 2 hours until all air bubble domes are gone, allow to cool in the oven over night. Using a large drift, punch the HDPE, while holding the pipe in a vise.

To make a knob chuck in the lathe, skin cut the outer diameter for a uniform finish, shape as desired. For a 1/4-20 bolt drill a 1/4" hole through the knob, from the top end drill a 15/32" hole approximately 1/2 way through the knob. Using a vise press the nut into the knob, then place a fender washer on the bottom and insert a bolt into the hole and thread it into the nut, tighten the bolt until the nut is at the bottom of the 15/32 hole. remove the bolt and the knob is complete.

A "tin" can is used as the mold, use a can larger than the finished size of the wheel you want. Follow the steps for making rod stock. When complete most of the time the cool part will fall out of the mold, it not cut the can away (cans are disposable) The piece is chucked in the lathe and again the outside diameter is turned to size, If the wheel is for a belt grinder a crown can be applied. Drill a hole through the wheel if bearings are to be installed drill the center hole 1/32 larger than the shaft size. Next drill or bore the holes for the bearings. Press the bearing into the wheel

Step 11: Shop Built Fixture for Planing Large Pieces

Material

MDF or Plywood 3/4" x 24 x 30

2 - 2x4 30"

4- 2x4 blocks 4"

4 -1/4-20 carriage bolts 5"

2- 1/4-20 threaded rods 24"

8- wingnuts or knobs 1/4-20

8- 1/4 fender washers

The surface planer has a capacity of 10", so for the 12 inch disks an alternate method of planing was needed. A simple shop built fixture was made using a 24"x30" piece of MDF (cutoff from a cabinet shop) 2x4 blocks were screwed on the bottom for legs. A 1/2" groove was cut on both ends approximately 3" from the edge and 1/2 the material thickness. This is head clearance for a 1/4" carriage bolt. A 1/4" groove was cut through the MDF centered on the 1/2 groove. Clearance for the carriage bolts. Two 30" long 2x4 were ripped to the same width. Then 1/4" holes were drilled through the 2x4 to match the 1/4" carriage bolt grooves in the table. Finally four 1/4" holes are drilled approximately 2" from the end in the center of the 2x4's (clamp them together so the holes line up) Cut 2- 1/4"-20 threaded rods 24" long for the clamping. Assemble 2x4's to MDF with carriage bolts and threaded rods using wingnuts or knobs for ease of adjusting.

2- 1-1/2 x1-1/2x 1/16 angle aluminum was cut 24"

2- 3/4x1-1/2x8 hardwood blocks

Place your router between the two angles, clamp the wood block to the angle, do this at both ends then take the assembly to the drill press and drill 8 1/4" holes to mount the blocks to the angles. This completes the router cradle.

Place the part to be planed between the 2x4's. tighten threaded rod until part is clamped firmly, then tighten carriage bolts. Before clamping you may need to raise the part with shims so the router bit will reach the surface also by placing some strips of wood between the part and the 2x4 will save routing the 2x4. A 5/8 diameter bit was used to surface the parts. (it was the largest I had at the time)

"

Step 12: Circle Cutting Jig

Material

1 MDF 24x30 inches (cutoff from cabinet shop)

1 HDPE strip 3/8x3/4x24 to fit miter slot on bandsaw

1 MDF 4x6 stop block

2 2 inch 1/4-20 bolts

1 wing nut 1/4-20

1 jam nut 1/4-20

1 nut 1/4-20

1 Aluminum t-track for 1/4 bolt 18"

Size the HDPE runner to the miter slot on the saw, place the HDPE in the miter slot.

Place the MDF table on and mark the location of the HDPE with the table clearing the saw arm. (approx. 13 inches on my saw)

Remove the table and using a square mark the miter runner location across the bottom of the table.

Locate the HDPE to the marked line and attach with screws.

Place the stop block on the left side of the table approximately centered between the arm and the blade (on my saw approximately 4 inches from the left side) on the rear edge of the table.

Place the table in the miter slot and saw a kerf until the stop block contacts the table.

Setup a router with a straight guide and route a 3/4" slot centered on the end of the saw kerf 1/2" deep in the table.

The aluminum t-track is drilled 1" from the end with a 1/4" hole centered on the bottom of the track.

The table is drilled 1" from the right edge with a 1/4" hole centered on the routed slot.

Take one 1/4" bolt and cut the head off and round the edges of the stud.

Taking the stud run the jam nut to the end of the thread, insert the 1/4-20 nut into the t-track and align nut and hole, screw stud into nut, when stud bottoms out, tighten jam nut.

Insert head of 1/4-20 bolt into t-track, place track in routed slot and align through hole in slot, tighten wing nut from bottom.

To cut a circle, measure the radius distance between the blade and the center of the stud, mark the center of material to be cut, drill a 1/4" hole through the material, on the bottom side drill a 1/2 clearance hole 1/4 deep for the jam nut. Retract table from the blade so the part can be placed on the pivot stud, turn on the saw and advance the table until the stop is reached, then rotate the part 360 degrees to cut the circle, turn off the saw and remove the part from the table, the scrap will have to be backed out through the first cut kerf

Step 13: Shop Built Clamps

To save space in the oven and allow for making a longer piece, shop made clamps were assembled.

Two types were built, the first is a 1/8x1x5 inch flat stock, 90 degree bends were placed 1 inch from each end. Holes were drilled and tapped for 1/4-20 bolts.

The second clamp is made from a piece of channel iron 3x1.5, one piece was cut 2" and 3". The channel was drilled and tapped for 1/4-20 bolts.

The last clamps are called midget panel clamps and are available on line at several vendors.

Step 14: Tips, Methods, Observations

Tools to cut buckets

I have tried several tools and find the vibrating saw works well to remove the bottom of the buckets and split in 1/2 (usually along the line through the handle mount, this area holds the most dirt). After the bucket is sectioned the bandsaw is used to make pieces that will fit a 9x13 pan.

Sources of Buckets and Lids

My current source for buckets is a local bakery, the buckets contain frosting and icings. Buckets are also available from restaurants pickles, olives and other prepared produce items. Ice Cream is packaged in small HDPE bucket and plants have a lot of scrap that is missed marked or damaged in packaging, (some have a lot of printing that may make them marginal from the time to remove the printing) Beauty Schools get supplies in HDPE buckets, Construction sites get dry wall compound in buckets, Hydraulic oil and some grease come in buckets, Chemicals, insecticides, herbicides, bulk soaps and cleaners all come in buckets. (I do not use buckets that contained poisons) Do not uses buckets that take a lot of time to clean out the residue, it is not worth the time for the amount of material.

Label, decals, printing

When cutting the buckets I try to leave the label or printing a single piece. Labels are soaked in water to remove the paper. If there is a sticky residue paint thinner (mineral spirits) in a spray bottle and most of the residue will wipe off. Printing is scraped off using a card scraper available at a woodworking supply. Some labels are printed on plastic and are very difficult to remove. I just throw that piece away again there is not enough material to warrant spending a lot of time removing it.

Storage and inventory

Containers take up a lot of room to store. I have taken to reducing the volume by melting into concentrated pieces. With colored lids I melt in bread pans to make some sheets of material of a given color. Buckets are reduced to 9x13 sheets 3/8 to 5/8 inch thick. This is about a bucket worth of material. Sharpies permanent marker will write on the HDPE but it will show up on the finished parts sometimes it is still readable (denatured alcohol will remove some of the mark). Some buckets are #5, PP, Polypropylene currently I am melting these in 9x13 sheets and marking them PP and will work with them after I made the parts needed to make a beehive box.

Machining HDPE

Woodworking tools work well in machining HDPE both hand and power. The cuts need to be reduced from wood. Wood can be planed or jointed at a 1/16 to 1/8 while HDPE needs to be 1/32 to 1/16. The feed rate for sawing needs to be reduce about 1/2 of the wood rate. Drilling the chips need to be cleared from the bit if not the HDPE will melt and jam the bit. Routing is also at 1/2 the wood rate and again chip removal is necessary to prevent melting. Turning I have not noticed any major difference from wood as long as the chips do not jam the tool. Sanding works, but heavy cuts melt material into the sandpaper. With hand tool again material removal need to be a half of the wood rate. When using power tools use feather boards and push stick remembering that the HDPE is very slippery and holding devices need to be adjusted properly or the material will slip and the tool may try to throw it at you. The scrap shavings are not worth re-melt, they are too dirty and do not yield much material.

Mixing flowing and non-flowing HDPE

Non-flowing HDPE has been added to flowing to create colored patterns. The materials adhere to each other well, but air will not travel through the non-flowing so only add vertically so that the air pockets can flow around the non-flowing. Additional work will be done in this area, motor oil and detergent bottles have such a good selection of colors.

When filling the mold check the pieces for dirt, laminations, and contamination

Check the pieces for dirt, contamination, and laminations. If sever discard the piece. For laminations re-melt in the 9x13 pan, resaw and if lamination are still present discard. With dirt try scraping to remove. Remember it is not worth ruining a whole piece just to conserve free material. Throw it away and do not waste your time.

Cleanliness and Uniform Heating are the Two Major Elements for Consistent Results

Cleanliness is the major cause of laminations and separation of the melted material. Even after washing the raw material, if it is allowed to set around before melting it will accumulate dust from the shop (I am working in a shop of woodworking machines) I rinse all pieces before I place in pan for melting or the mold for the final stock.

Uneven heating allows areas to solidify at a different rate since the material shrinks when solidifying it pulls the liquid material causing amplified distortion. Ideally the complete form would be cooled and transform from liquid to solid at the same time, if that happened the part would be uniformly 3% smaller, but if it does not the parts are distorted and area shrinks can be as high as 20% change in dimensions.

Glue Does Not Stick to HDPE

Since glue does not stick to HDPE all joints have to be mechanically reinforced. Currently tongue and groove joints are cut for joining parts. These are reinforced with screws or pocket screws. On parts where metal screws are not wanted a hole is drill through the tongue and groove !/4", then the joint is disassembled and the hole through the tongue in enlarged to 5/16". The joint is reassembled and a filling epoxy (JB Weld) is forced in hole, the larger hole in the tongue creates a collar that hold the plug in place.

How to work non-flowing HDPE

https://www.instructables.com/id/Making-Dimensional...

Comments

author
shapespeare (author)2017-02-13

Good Job. It reminds me of a dystopian sci-fi I read once where future people are mining landfills to retrieve plastics to sell to the plastic smiths.

author
Baytrees (author)2017-01-15

I have had a go with various plastic bottles from around the house and cut them into little pieces smaller than baby finger nail sizes, then I put it into a non stick frying pan and slowly melted the bits, on the hob, I took great time to melt it very slowly then kept it on low heat till I could see the shine, I then folded the melted plastic a few times and carried on with the low heat, after a few hours I placed the mixture onto parchment paper and squashed it into a rough square as I was trying to make a tile. The mixture resembled colourful marble all swirled together, I find the more you mix it the stronger it becomes. I never used any heavy weight and the tile is super strong. I am collecting more bottles to make more tiles because I want to use this amazing plastic stuff to cover the cats outdoor house. It's great that I can make these tiles, bit by bit and slowly build up enough for the project. All in all, try slowly and longer with some mixing and hopefully good luck for you.

author
funny1048 (author)2017-01-13

awesome job this is a great and well written instructable. i have melted hdpe for a while and learned some things about the material that may help you. when i melted and compressed non flowing hdpe into a disc for example it looked great and couldnt find any voids however i tryed to snap it in half to strength test it and unfortunately it broke in a weird fracture pattern almost as if the chips of plastic didnt fully fuse even though it looked like a solid piece. fortunately i found a solution to this problem by taking silicon gloves and kneading the molten piece of hdpe while melted like dough then put it back in the oven until remelted and then finally clamping it in the mold this fully fuses the chips and when i tryed to snap it in half it was completely indestructable i used all of my strength and couldnt even bend a 1/4 disc of this hdpe. a more long term solution for this is by building a mini filament extruder there are lots of ways to make this easily at home and then chop the plastic filament into pellets then the pellets can be compression molded without kneading it because the pellets wont form areas of stress in the plastic unlike plastic flakes.

author
baker519 (author)funny10482017-01-13

Thank you for the kind comments. I also appreciate the hint on kneading and reheating the mass. The parts I have made have not needed mechanical strength, they have been used instead of wood in areas where moisture and rotting were problems, or replaced clay parts.

This last week a friend wanted a wedge to replace a commercial wedge that had broken in sub zero temperatures. I made a wedge out of some of the flowing material I had. It was then tested in a vise and hit with a hammer. It failed miserably. It did not break along flat planes like the feed stock, it looked more like a drift wood with gentile curves and cone shaped spikes like stalagmite. Like you said it broke in weird fracture patterns.

I have been experimenting with 1" black hdpe pipe, when heated it shrinks in length over 50% but gets wider. I melt several pieces, then clamp in vise to compress together, then reheat and then compress into "tin" can for making a wheel for an idler on a grinder, then turn the wheels and install bearings. Have not been able to break the wheels.

I will get some silicone gloves and build a wooden form to make a wedge. Will heat pieces, knead and compress into a single mass to fit form (may take several cycles) Then finally form into wedge after last heat and let cool in wood form under pressure.

Will let you know how well this works. Again thank you for your insight and suggestions.

author
funny1048 (author)baker5192017-01-13

cool cant wait to see the results hdpe is definetely an awesome material to work with

author
baker519 (author)2016-12-24

New instructable

How to work with the non-flowing HDPE

https://www.instructables.com/id/Making-Dimensional...

author
tkacandes (author)2016-12-17

I worked in the recycling industry and funded plastics reprocessing research for some years: "HDPE" is a category of about 2,000 resins with more specific properties and when you blend them together it creates a loss of properties which equals good to use one specific product to recycle if you like the resin properties that went into that product in original manufacture. Many plastic bags are not actually HDPE, but LDPE or LLDPE and there are many versions of each of those, too. For grinding HDPE, I recommend trying low speed shear grinding and then regrind finer if you have to. It's also safer and creates less heat than something high speed. Do not try to compress HDPE in a grinding process or let it "bounce" as it would off a high speed food processor, think tearing / shearing and you'll be in the right direction. Enjoy!

author
ЈохнД (author)2016-12-08

Using a chipper like this one, thats grinding blades are on a angle the friction related plastic melting is controllable.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?...

I use one and get 1/16" size granules after feeding it through about 4 times. The secret is water! You take a bucket of water, put your reduced ( to 1.25") plastic scrap into a bucket of water, then reach in and get out hand fulls then run it in the shredder. It makes a puree. Poor it out on a table and let it dry. Then with a electric pot, remelt and pour into shapes you made.

author
Eh Lie Us! (author)2016-12-05

I spend a lot of time on this site and this is one of the most amazing Instructables I've seen.

author
lbrewer42 (author)2016-12-04

Great instructable - thanks for your sharing of research.

I used to work in a plastics injection molding plant. There the workers would remove and throw the mold gates (excess plastic "stems") into a large grinder at each press. The grinder did not come close to making powder the plastic scrap (melted and re-used), but did make some very tiny particles out of it. The bulk of the grinder was a large bin. You fed the gates in at the top openeing, they went through the grinding mechanism that was powered by, likely 1/2-3/4 hp, and the particles fell into the large collection bin -- the bin being the bulk of the machine. I have often wondered if somehow making a homemade plastic grinder of the same kind might not make it easier to melt down HDPE for uses such as yours?

I never did get to see the actual blades/mechanism use in those grinders. The only hint was a belt & pulley from the motor went to the top of the machine where the plastic was shredded.

Since home recycling is on such a smaller scale, I also have been toying with the idea of trying to adapt an old food processor to see how this would work for shredding milk jugs strips into tiny particles like these grinders. I have not tried anything yet though.

author
TeckyBecky (author)lbrewer422016-12-04

Check out https://preciousplastic.com. Your shredder idea is there with plans.

I'm hoping to set up my own workshop around the tools there and this 'ible gives some great pointers to consider. Thanks Baker.

author
Bverysharp (author)TeckyBecky2016-12-05

The precious plastic site is amazing! Thanks for sharing that.

author
TeckyBecky (author)Bverysharp2016-12-05

It's great isn't it. Would love to see more related projects in here.

author
Treknology (author)lbrewer422016-12-05

I've read several i'bles on re-casting HDPE and, unfortunately, the level of detail given in this one means that what I had previously considered a good source of material for my own experimentation (Australian HDPE milk bottles) has been struck off the list. Maybe PET is more consistent from one product to the next?

I have also looked into grinding waste to a fine powder economically, so that I can re-use materials on a 3D printer. Just like with my resin printer, who cares about color? All the waste mixed together results in so close to black that I recast it and never have to buy black blocks, only the CMY ones. Given how tough Xerox Phaser resin is, it would be great for experimentation if only it weren't so expensive!

I don't believe that a food processor would be a particularly good idea. Anything high-speed could cause melting which would jam everything up. Basic smasher/chopper/hammer type grinding into chunks wouldn't present the same problem but, the finer the desired result, the slower the process has to become.

I'm seriously considering a hand-driven ceramic coffee grinder and powering it with a slow motor. If I can smash stuff up to the size of coffee "beans", then what do I care how long it takes such a grinder to give me the final result?

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baker519 made it! (author)Treknology2016-12-05

I have down some additional work with non flowing HDPE like milk jugs, I used a portable basketball hoop stand. It was approximately 1/8" thick material. Cut it into pieces to fit in a 9x13 pan (left approximately 1" per side for the 1/2" spacer and material overflow). Heated 375 for 60 minutes. Placed 1/2 aluminum tube spacer around edge. Pressed between 2 MDF boards using 5 clamps each corner and center bottomed out on spacers. Let cool. Cut for inspection and integrity was good. thickness very consistent. Will cut off thin edges and have 1/2 stock for small pieces.

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baker519 (author)lbrewer422016-12-04

I have seen three types of plastic regrinders, a notched wheel shredder similar to a paper shredder where the plastic falls into the notch and the messing wheels crush it (that is the precise plastics plan), a rotatory shear with two rotating blades and two fixed blades and a sizing screen in the bottom to not let the plastic out until it is a certain size (like most tree chippers), and a hammermill with swinging blades and a screen for sizing (farm feed mill). For home use I would look at modifying a leaf shedder (not the nylon string type) or even take a lawn mower make it a super mulcher close up the bottom feed it thru the discharge chute (yes I know this super dangerous!) Also watch Craigslist for a small agricultural feed mill they made some that were about the size of a garden shredder. Depending on what you want to produce just cut the pieces small enough to get your heating device. The reason industry uses such small pieces is to get the material into the heating screw on the plastic machines, and to get adequate mixing in the auger before injection or extruding.

If you want to make filament for a 3D printer or some other small part then the material would have to be ground finer, but for items like I want which are large enough to machined on my woodworking equipment, I just reduce the plastic to a size that will fit into my pans and oven.

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michaelmacnz (author)lbrewer422016-12-04

There was an ible on using a cheap wood planer, turned upside down , to shred plastics.. Seemed like a realistic idea... Not as fine as powder but pretty good

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JackP33 (author)2016-12-05

What HDPE # was the bucket made from?

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baker519 (author)JackP332016-12-05

HDPE is number 2 or a triangle with HDPE below the triangle.

This link has all the recycling codes

https://www.quantumbalancing.com/recycle.htm

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Treknology (author)2016-12-05

Thanks for the level of detail given. It is extremely informative.

I am going to ask about the actual pressing process. I am under the impression that pre-grinding the apples is simply meant as a way of increasing the volume of material that fits into the press.

Have you done any experimentation regarding weight versus yield by pressing whole apples?

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baker519 made it! (author)Treknology2016-12-05

The purpose of the grinder is to break up the cellular structure of the apple so the juice will run out. Like puncturing a balloon to let the air out. attached is a photo of the inside of the grinder. The first roller has blades that cut the apple into chunks and then the inside roller squeeze the chunks into mush. Then the mush is pressed to break additional cell walls to let the juice out. Finer grinding will liberate additional juice, also more pressure, one step we added was to put plates every 3-4 inches of mush, this allows the pressure to be distributed and not have bridging inside the bucket where mush has relatively little pressure applied. Currently we squeeze the apples, get the juice, and then take the left over mush and rehydrate with water and then add mother of vinegar and let it make apple cider vinegar.

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dohebert (author)2016-12-05

This is a lovely instructable that I started reading with great interest. Then I started thinking about the original problem -- making food grade plastic pieces for the cirder press, and I realized that my approach would have been to buy 4-5 cheap white plastic cutting boards and slice them to the dimensions needed, and I would have completed the project in an afternoon. I'm not trying to be a jerk (although I realize I probably am). I think this is a wonderful instructable for folks who would like to experiment with recycling plastic for custom projects. But I also think that given the amount of time and energy (toaster oven, etc.) that went into it, those white plastic cutting boards would have been your friend.

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baker519 (author)dohebert2016-12-05

I did use plastic cutting boards, I outside rail of the catch tray are from Sam's Club, the largest piece I could find. The problem with cutting boards is they are only 3/8 thick. My friend wanted 3/4" thick buckets, because he felt the 3/8 was too flimsy with 2 bands around the bucket. Yes, more bands were discussed and it came down to personal preference, he wanted it to look like the original. Again this whole project was a labor of love, the purchased materials to restore this press cost as much as a new modern press, with the many hours of labor this restoration is priceless.

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dohebert (author)baker5192016-12-05

Ah! I stand corrected. Labors of love are the best kind - I once spent $100 taking apart a $5 coffee maker to create a steampunked version.

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dacarls (author)2016-12-04

I bought some recycleable 55 gallon food drums recently for $15 each. They still contained about a gallon of crystal-clear high fructose corn syrup each. You cannot get plastic more food-safe than that.

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dacarls (author)2016-12-04

WEST MARINE G/flex glue was new to me this summer, when I first heard of it. I tried many times over the years to glue HDPE, PVC and ABS plastic. Melting, flaming, welding- with lousy results. It now looks like high quality HDPE parts can be glued resulting in quality joints for quality projects. NOTE: cleaning and brief flaming is required for proper surface prep: This is NOT epoxy or polyurethane glue.------

From an Ad: "Repair plastic canoes, kayaks and inflatables made from HDPE, LDPE, ABS, PVC or polycarbonate plastic with the contents of WEST SYSTEM's Plastic Boat Repair Kit. This kit features plastic-friendly G/flex epoxy, and is assembled with the do-it-yourselfer in mind. Each Plastic Boat Repair Kit contains 8.4oz. of pre-thickened G/flex epoxy, protective gloves, mixing pallets and mixing sticks. Illustrated, detailed instructions explain how to repair splits and cracks in plastic boats, attach or repair reinforcement points on inflatable boats and repair pinhole leaks in inflatables".

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27frogs (author)2016-12-04

i have discovered within my experimenting with HDPE that there is 4 basic types (formulations) in the HDPE family; Injected -5gal. Bucket type that flows when melted, Film - grocery bags and like that do not flow, Blown - milk jug and detergent type conntnainers that do not flow, extruded - shotgun shells that shrink into donut shaped rings the first time melted and do not flow. They all melt and react differently and most of the time you can mix but they all have to be clean. I have made up some really cool sheets using injected and extruded but they are strongest when you use one type or another.

Yes in is is faster to just purchase new sheet material but to loose out on fun of experimentation and the excitement of taking material and manipulating it into another can be an art. It is a joy to make things. It is like the difference between the knife maker who buys his knife blank and scales then formed his knife, and knife maker who uses fire, anvil and hammers to forge the steel into its intended product. Yes it is faster to just buy the blank and maybe in some cases could be cheeper but the experience for some manipulating materials and processes is a very gratifying and gives a great deal more artistic value and variety. Both are valued experiences but often the hard work put into a new experience can lead to great discoveries and greater knowledge of the material. Imagine if Thomas Edison or John Browning sat back and just said this is to hard I am going to sit back and wait for some other poor smuk to figure this out. The learning process is a personal one and not all want to learn all that they can about a material. I personally love process. I love the feel of a freshly sharpened tool that slices through the material cutting and shaping. I am a professional fabricator and have used many modern tools and machinery but the most gratifying is old school technologies and the skill that only comes from practice and experience.

Great work and thanks for the information

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AeroSpaceWatercraft (author)2016-12-04

Well isn't the whole premise of this website, is to share DIY ideas, and show how you did it? Don't you think that baker already knew of the recyclers you mentioned, but wanted a challenge? IMO, You have missed the point of this website completely.

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M40 (author)AeroSpaceWatercraft2016-12-04

I didn't miss any point. I think each project should be evaluated by each person as to whether it is worth their time to tackle. In my case, I evaluated all the work put into this project and determined that I will not attempt to do my own recycling of HDPE... it's way more trouble than its worth. I therefore THANK the author for the warnings about all the things that can and do go wrong. It's cheaper and easier to simply buy recycled sheets from any of a dozen different sources.

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KraftyKeilbart (author)2016-12-04

Could you list a few locations to buy such stock?

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M40 (author)KraftyKeilbart2016-12-04



http://www.gipo-rpi.com/recycled-hdpe-sheet-manufacturer/

http://www.sandhillplastics.com/

http://intectural.com/material/metem/

http://envisionplastics.com/pcr-hdpe-products/

https://iplasticsupply.com/plastic-sheet-and-sheets-plastics/

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BigCountry (author)2016-12-04

I saw another constructable fairly recently about a guy who used a dedicated blender for shredding/chopping into a finer form before melting. could that not be done with what you are doing? Also, a wire harness type thingamajig (love engineering nomenclature) and you could could centrifuge your cans and pipes while the material was still molten. Then dispose of the top half inch or so (where the air would give you a spongier result).

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ToniRose (author)2016-12-04

This is an amazingly detailed record of your experimentation. Lots of very valuable information, well organized for future reference.

One question: have you tried using heat to connect parts? For instance, melting the edges of two sheets on a hot surface like a frying pan and then clamping them together to cool. Tongue and groove connections are sturdy for some connections - and can look quite beautiful - but for right angles could be problematic.

Thanks so much for sharing this valuable document. It reads like a professional engineering paper, only easy for the layman to understand!

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baker519 (author)ToniRose2016-12-04

Am just making the larger pieces to make the bee hive body. Will be next week before I am finished making the pieces. Making Christmas gifts so have to work experimenting in-between.

The reason I am looking at tongue and groove is that I have a Sommerfeld bit set with setup gauge (check out their YouTube videos). This set allows the building of cabinets using t&g for all joints. It gives you location in two directions and makes clamping easier. With the HDPE being so slippery I thought it would be beneficial to have the parts located for clamping and then pinning the joint in the third plane.

I had thought of plastic welding, but with the high expansion and shrinkage I had dismissed it for the first try. Will try later, but for now will spend time making an acceptable bee box. Will probably use metal corner braces to hold together on the outside. I will also cut biscuit joints where the box and supers meet to keep the two from sliding apart. These will be loose fit with no glue. Will report back about my success or failure.

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baker519 (author)2016-12-04

YouTube link to cider press

I works!! Clean up was about 10 minutes

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ronfunkcompany (author)2016-12-04

Just a comment for what it's worth on plastic labeling. I also worked in a plastics factory. We thermoformed plastic sheet and rotationally molded plastic parts. Often the rotational molding involved HDPE though a different grade than what pails are made of but the main reason for my comment is that we could actually mold logos, company names, etc into parts using a process called "Mold In Graphics". The graphic was applied to the mold surface and was actually molded into the part during the heating process making it impossible to remove because the logo became part of the part (the label was made of colored plastic that melted into the part).

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danieldweaver (author)2016-12-04

Although I applaud you both for your frugality and your ingenuity, isn't there a reason for "FOOD GRADE" on plastic that comes into contact with food that we ingest? A few things to ask yourself:
-What was in that old plastic bucket or drum? Could it have leached into the plastic or could there be residue in the scratched surface that could make its way into the food contaminating it?
-During the re-melting process will they be liberated and then aspirated by people exposed to the fumes?
-Are the risks worth the effort?

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baker519 (author)danieldweaver2016-12-04

As mentioned in step 14 I use buckets and lids that I get from a bakery that had frosting or icing in them. These were used in the cider press restoration. I do not use buckets that had poison in them for any of the parts. HDPE is rather impervious to most chemicals so I do not see a major problem using non food grade for items like the idler wheel or the parts for jigs and fixtures like the miter slot runner or the knobs.

As for fumes the MSDS for HDPE is one of the least reactive of any of the plastics. (I have heated PVC for bending and will only do that outside). I do not detect any fumes at the temperatures that it takes to melt the HDPE. It is done in the area of the shop next to my welder and there is ventilation there for the welding smoke.

I see the risks for this to be about the same as woodworking, there I have dust collection equipment, dust masks, respirator mask for finishing and external ventilation for the shop. These are used when machining the HDPE.

This instructable was about a process to produce raw material to complete a project and I assumed correctly or not that shop safety is the users responsibility. This process does not produce noticeable fumes. I appreciate your concerns, but I feel that checking the MSDS and using containers that contained poisonous material will give a reasonable safety level for the home shop.

Also how "food safe" was the 140 year old wood that was on the cider press originally?

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gkastelein (author)2016-12-04

Plastics manufacturers have to go to great lengths to have their material certified as "food grade". Recycled HDPE would not normally be rated as "food grade", yours even less so, you do not know what contaminants joy are introducing into this material.

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Handsome Matt (author)2016-12-04

How did you remove the labels?

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baker519 (author)Handsome Matt2016-12-04

To remove the labels, I cut them out of the container, then soak them in dish detergent and water over night or longer. Then scrape of the paper and glue if it is water soluble. If it is still sticky I have paint thinner (mineral spirits) in a spray bottle and mist the sticky area and then wipe off the residue with a paper towel.

The labels that are printed or heat stamped on the container I use a card scraper (a rectangular steel blade that cuts and removes the HDPE and the printing) The scraper is pictured in step 14 it is the photo next to the buckets, the scraper is the silver piece of steel. These are available woodworking supply or you can make your own out of a putty knife blade. Grind or file the working end of the putty knife square to the sides. Then grasp the blade by the sides, set it on the area to be scraped and pull the blade towards you, you should get nice little curly piece of plastic and the printing. You may have to tilt the blade forward or backwards to get it to cut. A little practice and you will get the feel for the correct orientation to get it to scrape the printing off.

Some labels are printed on plastic and are really stuck to the HDPE (motor oil and detergent bottles) I have not found effective way to remove these label, so I just throw them away for now. I would like to know how they get the label so well adhered to the HDPE, I have not found any glue that sticks that well to the HDPE. Have tried epoxies, polyurethane, and PVA and have tried flame treating with a propane torch will little success.

Hope this helps.

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jigsawinc (author)baker5192016-12-04

Lemon essential oil is great for removing glued on labels and can remove a lot of the stamped on ones too.

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PhilS43 (author)baker5192016-12-04

Ref labels

Most labels will come off with a bit of careful heat from a heat gun.

Any others, scuff the surface up a bit first - if you know it's water based, as you say, just soak with a bit of washing up detergent to help it "wet".

For all others, use a large sealable container like a food storage box, some tissues in the bottom, put your label stuff in, spray with white spirit or meths, soak the tissues ditto and let the vapour do the work overnight (same system as paint brush cleaning). If no sealable box, try a zippable plastic bag.

WD40 is also very effective.

HDPE is one of the class of thermoplastics. These do not an "active" enough surface to take adhesives. Loctite do or did a range of super-glues with their special activator that would reasonably bond thermoplastics including PTFE.

The new construction adhesives like Geocel "The Works" or Sikaflex EBT stick to most things and do a decent job on PP.

Welding only really works with a temperature controlled welding bit (Leister) - for a rough job, I find a length of HDPE, get it burning and drip the molten plastic onto the stock - can do a quick fix on leaking plastic tanks

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jtharkness (author)2016-12-04

You are a 'scientist' with EXCEPTIONAL documentation skills. Well done.

As danieldweaver intimated, if you were to make apple or fruit presses for a living, you might want to limit your sources of scrap HDPE so as to consistently use only the cleanest and safest scraps, and then have the final product lab tested for chemical components - just to be sure the 2nd melting doesn't adversely change the nature of the HDPE in such a way as to lessen its 'food grade' qualification.

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eyetrply (author)2016-12-04

Thomas Edison is smiling upon you! Well done!

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nava1uni (author)2016-12-04

Interesting process. I would be concerned about the environmental risks to health from melting the HDPE in an oven without proper ventilation and withdrawal of fumes. Plastic fumes can be very harmful. How do you address this issue.

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mountainfish (author)2016-12-04

I wish I lived next door to you.

I am studying mechanical engineering, and I know that there is much to be had in the details that so many omit. Thank you for your hard work not only on your projects but also the incredible amount of work you spent on sharing this with the instructables community.

I have been inspired by you. Again thank you!

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WVSundown (author)2016-12-04

Excellent Instructable! You have saved others much time and material in documenting your experiments. Thank you for taking the time to share your efforts!

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moperformance (author)WVSundown2016-12-04

X2 excellent!

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rasterweb (author)2016-12-04

Awesome info here... Goes way beyond my HDPE stock material experiments.

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