With the recent storms hitting the northwest there are a lot of bikers piling on the bus or even driving! Though you can order expensive European-made studded ice tires, you can also modify your own cross tires into effective ice tires with just a few dollars' worth of rivets. These tires will keep you upright on hard packed snow and glare ice.

There are other methods for DIY ice tires (like sheet metal screws in mountain bike tires), but these ones made with pop rivets are elegant and suited to narrower tires used on hybrid/cross/touring bikes.

Step 1: What you need

A rivet tool.

An awl, or sharp poking thing (not a drill or blade).

A knife if you want to slice off tread blocks (not pictured)

Some steel pop rivets, long enough to reach through the washer and tread. The ones I used were 1/8" capacity, for a pretty ordinary cross tire. If you have very deep tread or puncture resistance layers in your tire you might need longer ones. I wound up using 33 rivets in my rear tire and 90 in the front.

Washers just big enough to fit over the rivet body--some are usually sold alongside the rivets.

Some cyclocross tires (not pictured) -- I got some off the used rack at my local bike shop. You want tires with some good tread to propel you in snow -- the rivets will help with ice and strong hardpack..
Here is a real crazy idea for you. Years ago the trials bike/hill climb motorcycle guys used to hook peices of drive chain aound the tire and rim between the spokes for traction. Yes, it would add weight but, it might work for tractioncontrol for down hill offroad riding. I live.in Southwest Washington state along the Columbia river. We get mostly rain at my elevation so traction is rarely an issue. Just need webbed feet is all.
Here is a real crazy idea for you. Years ago the trials bike/hill climb motorcycle guys used to hook peices of drive chain aound the tire and rim between the spokes for traction. Yes, it would add weight but, it might work for tractioncontrol for down hill offroad riding. I live.in Southwest Washington state along the Columbia river. We get mostly rain at my elevation so traction is rarely an issue. Just need webbed feet is all.
As an idea towards the longevity of the studs,might i suggest using stainless steel riviets and wasbers? That stuff is incredibly wear resistant. As for the washers don't be to quick to buy the ones that are sold by the rivets. They may fit too loose around the body of the rivet. It may be better to buy the rivets that are found in the nuts and bolts section of the hardware store or a bolt store. Don't let the nit picky nay sayers get to you. They are nust jealous they didn't think of it first.
I just finished this procedure on a pair of 26x2&quot; MTB tires and they work great. <br><br>Predrilled all the holes with a 7/32&quot; drill from the outside of the tire. I found that if I didn't predrill, pushing the rivet from the inside of the tire could rip the nub on the outside.<br><br>At first I didn't line the inside of the tire with another tube, and instantly got a flat... now both tires are lined with old tubes. Problem solved. These are loud on the road. Took it out on a pond and the grip was surprisingly good. <br><br>Overall the task was quicker and easier than I though, and the result really is quite good... But it'll be amazing if anyone actually reads this post by making it past all the flaming comments about how someone reading a dedicated DIY site should just buy studded tires.<br>
<p>I'm going for the predrilled route, glad I found someone else who trailblazed it already for me! Good call on the spare tire as a liner, I'll have to do that.</p>
Oh dear Lord... I went and read all of the comments on this 'ible and practically died of trying to figure out why people have to argue about stuff on this site. It's a site for DIY, not debates and tangents
Thanks for the instructable. I normally don't ride in the winter, but I couldn't wait to get riding this year. I did this for my SS Cross bike. <br> <br>A lot of our city side streets will have mixed pavement, ice, and packed snow for long periods during the winter. Other roads will clear up after a few sunny days, and be bare cold pavement. It is nice to have a tire that can handle the mixed surfaces, without alot of rolling resistance on the dry. <br> <br>First off, I only did one tire for my bike, the front. This is a skinny 30c cross tire. I feel the front is the most critical to keep a bike upright when you hit slippery stuff. I can live with the rear slipping once in a while. I cut off the outermost knobs, and placed a rivet every 5th knob, making 20 per side. The knobs are about 4&quot; apart along the circumference of the tire. The opposite side is staggered. When the tire is at or near full pressure, the rivets/washers do not make contact at all going straight on dry roads. If you hit crusty packed snow/ice the rivets make contact. If you are turning, the bike starts to lean, and the rivets make contact. The rivets are at about the same height as the knobs, so they don't really seem to interfere with cornering on dry surfaces. You hear them clicking, but they don't seem to affect the traction (on dry). <br> <br>On pure shiny ice, I would want more studs, and on the rear, too. But for the mixed condition roads, this is just right. Today, we had fresh snow. I found that lowering the tire pressure helped for that. This is cool, I just learned that biking in the winter can be fun. <br> <br>I have a blog, and I am going to start a series of articles on thrifty bicycle tips. I will feature this instructable in one of my first articles. Check it out at http://millcitycycle.wordpress.com/ .
Is the cutting of the knobs necessary? because i forgot to do that part
Will tie into the inner tube
An idea for you.. Maybe a little bit of that Slime stuff would be a good addition. It would certainly seal any small holes that leak around the rivet up I bet. Just an idea!
that would only be necessary with a tubeless tire like on cars. Most bike tire still have an inner tube that holds the air.
Update: Have done a few test rides on pavement, dirt and on an ice (a frozen pond) and here are a few thoughts. 1) These work AWESOME on ice. Rode on a frozen pond for an hour without even slipping once. Great traction, it felt like riding on packed limestone. 2) These are wobbly and weird on pavement when descending at speed, and overall lousy on clear pavement. 3) I lost a few of the washers, but it has made no difference as far as traction. Actually, without the washers the tires look more like store-bought studded tires. 4) No flats (knock on wood)! The main thing is that riding on frozen ponds, lakes and streams is amazingly fun, stable, and just plain rad. I had a sh*t-eatin' grin on my face zipping around that pond. Of course, take your speed at 70% tops, and take her easy on turns, but overall not too different from normal traction. Thanks again for the clever instructable.
Hi, thanks for the idea. I just finished the rear tire and I'm halfway done with the front. It is time-consuming, but a fun project. I used 43 rivets in the rear, and will have 80 something up front. <br>Testing out the rear, I would recommend some strips of duct tape lining on the inside for a few of the uglier rivets. Some rivets leave a tiny sharp end on the inside, but most are flush and are causing no problem. <br> I live in Maine and we have a few months of icy roads ahead. I ride on dirt roads often, and ice is particularly bad on those. This project appealed to me because I saved a ton of cash compared to buying new studded tires, plus I had some of these materials laying around, and cross tires I never used much. <br>I took a nasty spill on ice last winter while going very slow, so I hope these help. I'll try to remember to post a follow-up after I use them for a while. Great idea. Cheers!
The way I was tought to do it(by my barber, a life-long cyclist) is to take quarter inch sheet metal screws and screw them into the tread at regular intervals, line the inside of the tire with duct tape just in case the screws rub against the interior, and slightly overinflate the tire before use. I later was inspired by the idea to take an old pair of work boots and screw some quarter inch sheet metal screws into the tread, making them pretty effective for gripping on ice, or any sort of slippery substance that can get spilled on the ground at work. Just don't forget to take them off before walking on any sort of wood floor, or any other material that could be easily damaged.
i like this idea a lot. i have a beater bike i've been wanting to use, so maybe i can try this on it. i dont have a rivet gun, but i can figure something out. well done.
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=7356">You won't find one cheaper :-)</a> They probably have a local store if you live near any big cities so you don't have to mail order it.<br/>
A word of advice on cheap pop-riveters, since I've owned dozens over the years -- buy the best you can afford, and ONLY ones with a brand name you know (Bostitch, Arrow, Swingline, Craftsman, Stanley etc). If you decide to go cheap figuring it's a one-time use, then at least buy somewhere locally and MAKE SURE YOU CAN RETURN IT if it doesn't work after ten rivets. I'd never buy one via internet or the mail, since the aggravation and cost of mailing back a bad one is silly for something this cheap. In one of my businesses, we put together portable toilets, with about a hundred pop-rivets in each them. I started with a cheapie riveter that actually worked great until I lost it. The next few cheapies (Chinese or Korean) were awful -- either the rivets got jammed every 3rd or 4th one and took forever to clear out, or the cheap steel inside wouldn't pull hard enough to set the rivet. Eventually I bought an air-riveter, but my drivers usually carry hand-rivet tools for repairs on the road. Sometimes, though, they;ve had to just go buy one because it was faster than cheaper than going back to the yard. Over half the cheapies they bought (sometimes that's all that were available) ended up in the trashcan the same day. One warning, though -- KEEP YOUR RECEIPT! Occasionally, even one of the name-brand ones will give you problems, and you need to make sure you can conveniently return the thing. A good-working riveter is a marvelous thing to own; one that's got quirks and problems will make you insane. You can, though, usually get by with some junky, cheapie rivets themselves, as long as you have a good rivet TOOL. You'll also find that the "backup washers" they sell for most rivets (very handy in plastic materials) are grossly overpriced, and you can just buy the same size washer in bulk for a fraction of the price. Pop-rivets are so neat and handy that it really isn't worth p***ing yourself off at them by starting with a junk riveter when most people, even kids, blow the price of a decent tool in a day goofing around at the mall. A good one will last most people for a lifetime, and you'll be amazed at how many useful fixes you can do with them, especially after you discover all the neat, oddball specialty rivets available -- not usually at your local store, but readily available on the internet. They have brass, steel, aluminum, stainless ... threaded ones, etc. And if you see one at a yard or garage sale ... test it first. Even a good one can eventually wear out, though it takes quite a lot to do that. If you get seriously into Pop-riveting, there is a step up from the usual name brands, one that's made primarily for industrial use, like on aircraft. Most of those are put together with air tools, but apparently they still use hand-tools on occasion. Most are made by one company whose name I forget, but the really upscale tool distributors like SnapOn and MAC carry them with their own name on them. They can run 40-60 bucks, but if you sometimes spend an hour putting in rivets, or use the heavy steel rivets, they're well worth the upgrade. So much for pop-rivets ... As far as whether it is appropriate to urge people, on Instructables, to go buy something rather than build it ... I have no problem with that, and I'm one of the cheapest guys around, and would usually much rather spend a couple of hours making something that satisfies me even if I could buy something similar for twenty bucks. And I'd never lower myself to work for ten bucks an hour ... it's just the satisfaction, along with saving a few cents. Not being a bike rider anymore, I don't know whether it's really safer to buy the factory tire with all those traction rivets, but i think those that point this out ARE making a valid point. There's nothing wrong with fiddling about and trying to put rivets in a regular tire as long as you realize it's a risk, and probably not nearly as good (also read: "SAFE") as something made for the job. I think that's all the "Buy It In A Store" guys were trying to say, and I respect their opinion. I've made my own tire chains for tractors and lawn mowers, by cutting down used car-tire chains, which work fine -- but I'm not risking them at speeds where I could get injured, either, if they failed. Considering the speed some of these bikes go at, this is a very valid point, I believe. Some things you can make for yourself, but a little warning light should be blinking at the back of your brain. I've made explosives to clear stumps, and homemade firearms & fireworks just for fun. But we have to realize our limitations, and act accordingly. The 12-gauge made from gas pipe works -- but i wouldn't depend on it for self-defense against a burglar. And if I made a home-made studded bike tire, I'd first be testing it on some very safe courses at some appropriately LOW speeds, with no dangerous obstacles. Just my two cents.
I'm old enough that I remember when if you bought something more expensive it meant it was better. &nbsp;Also when a brand name meant something.&nbsp;<br /> <br /> Now these things don't seem to matter. Companies lease out their name for products made by someone else or slap their name on something made in China for the lowest possible price.<br /> <br /> I think you're right about buying something local that has a good return policy. That's probably the best way to go.<br /> <br /> &nbsp;
I've got one of these riveters and I know it works great, however, I absolutely agree with you about cheap tools. My particular case is that I'm in college and moving every 12 months, so if I were to buy nice tools ($30 versus $6) and lose it when I was moving it would suck. When I graduate, have my own house and know I'm not going anywhere, and then my cheapie breaks I'll probably replace it, but for $6 including rivets. . . I'm not sure you can beat that price when you consider that even the expensive riveter will only last X years before you lose it, break it or loan it to a friend. The other reason for going to the physical Harbor Freight store is that you can look at/try things out and see if they suck or not - ASK the people who work there, they're always helpful at my store and point me towards the stuff that works, they're never afraid to say that some is bad or they they get lots of returns. The other cool thing is that every store carries absolutely everything they have on the web, when you walk around and realize that you can load an entire cart full of tools for $50 that would cost you $500 anywhere else, then take them all home, misuse, destroy, loan, cut in half all of them and not even feel bad at the end of the day :-) Finally, my $0.02 - don't kill yourself on your homemade tires riding down hills at 40 mph, however, if nobody ever tried anything different where would we ever come up with new products? I would put a lot of money down that the first pair of studded tires looked remarkably similar to the these, and if nobody ever built and tested the first pair you wouldn't have carbide impregnated expensive ones to buy today!
Yes, I know what you mean about cheap tools, and I do have some cheapie stuff mixed in with my Snap-On and other screaming high-price tools. Normally, if it's something for light or occasional use, I'll spring for Harbor Freight every time. That's where I got my 60-dollar air riveter, and it has been a remarkably tough tool for ten years now. The cheapie hand-riveters, for some reason, seem to be really hard for the third world to get right. However, if a Harbor Freight is close by, give it a try, but keep in mind how much it costs in gas if you have to return it, as opposed to just paying ($18) for an Arrow or Bostitch one time. Also, remember that you'd need to get the steel rivets separately somewhere, since the ones that come with the Chinese Cheapie are going to be aluminum, probably, and wear off almost instantly. I know what you mean about moving around and losing tools. When I was in the Army, I finally just bought a locking toolbox and KEPT it locked. The guys that were insulted were most likely the ones that would have failed to return tools anyhow. I was talking with one of my drivers today about these hand riveters and we sort of agreed that most of the cheapies we tried would fail before you reached 50 rivets, on average, sometimes less. He figured that if it got five or six rivets for one "remote fix" on the road it was still worth it to US ... but probably not for most people. That's why I try to discourage people from those entirely. Tools that fail when they are still shiny really bug me badly. I have no problem with experimenting with rivets in bike tires -- I just hope that whomever tries it uses their head and approaches it with safety in mind. You can make progress and still be careful, after all, rather than just slamming straight down the steepest, iciest hill available for the first test!
oh, wow. i didn't know they were that cheap. probably a good thing to have anyways for projects. there's a harbor freight about a half hour from where i am.
I might be completely misunderstanding physics here, but are those super awesome in mud?
Won't that pop the tires though? I'm afraid I&nbsp;don't understand how this works.<br />
&nbsp;So, there's two parts to the tire, the exterior rubber, which is rough and tough, and provides the traction, and the innertube, which is weak, but keeps the tire inflated. This only punctures the outer part and helps to add grip, but doesn't puncture the innertube.<br /> <br /> I hope I helped :)<br />
Wow, All I saw was the addie for this and it's all i need for me to say Wow..very cool. smart, clever, creative..ingenious... Now to read and dl the ible... ;) Simply brilliant idea.
A wide flange head type rivet may be more secure than the standard head rivet shown in the lead photo. I expect these would not pull out when locking the brakes on pavement or such. second thought.. what about using heavy green package strapping as an inside reinforcement. I refer to the plastic replacement for 3/4 inch wide steel banding used for binding lumber shipments together and dicarded at your local lumber store. that plastic banding is a versatile product in my experience and it's free. .
they already make the equivalent to what you are trying to do but its made out of 1/8th rubber to line your tires to prevent thorns etc. from poking your tubes. The strap would wear away the inner tube causing a failure.
I have rode my bike in the winter for the last 16 years. If you are buying studded tires I have heard the tungsten carbide ones are the best and will last for usually 3 seasons. I have a pair of Nokians on order, a lower cost version with not as many studs. The really good ones with lots of studs were $120 Canadian a tire which was above my current budget. The cheap studded tires I had years ago had non carbide studs and didn't last, and didn't really do much. The best traction I have had so far is with home made studded tires using mountain bike tires, and using round head screws from the inside, through the tire knob. Put in tons (ever knob for best traction), then cut them off with a small angle grinder with a metal cutting blade about 3/16 of and inch above the tire knobs. Cut an old tube apart and use as a liner between the tube and the screw heads to prevent flats. With lots of screws these offer incredible traction when they are ran only on snow and ice. Pavement wears them down fairly quickly, but the screws can be replaced. When I have more money I try a pair of the gnarly Nokians and see how good they are. A good quality tungsten carbide stud should work well when travelling on ice and pavement. From my experience riding a bike in the winter is perfectly safe, but requires one to avoid hard braking, and sharp corners, and adjust according to the "slippery factor".
This is a nicely put together instructable and thanks for sharing! But I would caution most folks not to try these home-made studded tires because the consequences of wiping out on the ice could be tragic. I would stronly encourage folks to invest in a pair of good quality studded tires (they might last you many seasons). I personally vouch for the AWESOME quality of Nokian tires. I show a picture for comparison (of a mountain bike tire, but they make them for road/cyclo-cross bikes too), the huge number of studs will allow you to have an adequate number of studs in contact with the ice under various conditions. The ideal conditions for Nokian tires are perfect glare ice, as that keeps perfect contact. Bumpy ice is certainly more dangerous.
Certainly one needs to ride with caution -- I wouldn't ride (or drive) ANYTHING in frozen conditions without constantly considering and trying to minimize the consequences of losing control at any moment. Note that while a Nokian tire has many more studs, that the ones on a homemade job stick out further, which is six of one, half dozen of the other as far as keeping contact goes. On balance I would bet that the ones I make would do a poorer job at paved surfaces than a professionally made model.
I also dislike the "Just go buy this!" mentality of people on this website. If we wanted to buy something, we would. We know all about buying stuff. Been doing that for years. But we did not know how easily made some products are, and more to the point if I need backup tires or emergency tires when my brand-spanking new snowtires are on another bike... Or if I have an extra set of partially-used mountian bike tires and I just moved to Iowa where there are no mountians, but loads and loads of flat snowy roads... And even more to the point, the Author says quite clearly in the 'ible that: "Though you can order expensive European-made studded ice tires, you can also modify your own cross tires into effective ice tires with just a few dollars' worth of rivets." Also, the whole "Be careful!" comments also annoy me. Duh. No need to belabor the point of being safe. Now, if you want to let everybody know of some NEW danger that you have had personal experience with--feel free to impart that wisdom onto us. But generic "warnings" don't help anybody--such as the "Bumpy ice is certainly more dangerous." part of your comment. That is useful information.
I like the "go buy this" mentality. professionally engineered products that are significantly different, usually are because they are significantly better. Generic warnings are good. Be annoyed, the point is this is not safe. People ride on roads for hundreds of miles or more inbetween crashs but with good ice tires, letalone these, someone who hasn't ridden on ice ought to be forewarned that they will wreck a few times. If 95% of those wrecks cause only a bruised ego, great, but what about the other 5%? It is the responsible thing to do, to warn about dangers in an activity that not everyone typically does, but the activity is promoted by the purpose for the instructable. The point might be, your personal safety is usually not worth trying to save a few dozen dollars but even if you decide to take the risk going cheap, you should not be so irresponsible to think others aren't entitled to be fully informed before making up their own mind on the matter. Always err on the side of caution when it comes to someone else.
Obvious troll is obvious... But I just can't resist feeding them! If you like the go buy this, then get off of Instructables. Close out your account, and just never come back. Because every single one of these is not by a professional engineer and you might hurt yourself. Just go back into your little consumer hole where you came from, and you let the people who want to take control of their lives rather than trusting 'professional engineers' to come up with solutions. Hindenburg was tested by 'professional engineers'. So was the Pinto, the Blue Angel that crashed during the airshow, the bus that went up onto the sidewalk when the break line failed, and millions of other mechanical devices every day. Are they safe? Only as safe as the person checking it, and the person operating it. And everybody makes mistakes. If I build something, I know what it takes to break it. Do you know what it takes to break your 'professional engineered' devices? I'm betting not. And therefore, in my eyes, you are less safe as you don't know what it's limits are. All this is my opinion. I speak for nobody else. But I think that we would be a lot better off if we removed all the warnings from the products we use and do a little skimming on the Human Gene Pool.
perfectly agreed
If you can't accept that with every project, all aspects including the negative and safety related ones should be considered, then you are the one who really should leave the 'site. Think about it. I have no power over what project someone does, it is about information including ALL information not just what your ego thinks should survive your idea of censorship. If you build these tires, do you know what it takes to lose enough traction to crash? Not before it happens you won't. Please don't pretend your great head can forsee what will break in normal use on a project you build, that is silly because if you could forsee this then the project would've been designed differently to avoid that breakage. If you can't stand a warning, don't read it. Warnings are not going to prevent you from doing whatever you choose to, they are not legally binding nor are we your parents who will punish you if you ignore them, but at the same time they exist for a reason. You would also be removed from the gene pool if it weren't for warnings in some areas of life, nobody is born an expert at anything, let alone everything.
"If you can't accept that with every project, all aspects including the negative and safety related ones should be considered, then you are the one who really should leave the 'site." How should we know "All aspects including the negative" of each and every single project that is posted on this site? We can't. You have to use your BRAIN in your head that evolution gave you to see the danger. Otherwise, every project would litterally be 20 pages of all the ways that you could hurt yourself. In this project alone there are just two tools--an Awl and a Pop Rivet Gun--and I bet that each one of those has at least 40 ways to hurt yourself with it. Should we REALLY get into the semantics of "Don't drop the Rivet Gun on your foot! It might give you a bruise!" because that is part of the negative/dangerous aspects of this project? "Think about it. I have no power over what project someone does, it is about information including ALL information not just what your ego thinks should survive your idea of censorship." You are misusing a word there. Censorship is the INVOLUNTARY removal of information from a third party. An example of this would be if I went into a library and started to take books and/or pages out of the library based on what I feel isn't required for others to know. What you are implying is that the author somehow knows something about this project that is very dangerous and isin't putting it into the 'ible. That is called "Withholding Information" and is a wholly different situation. "If you build these tires, do you know what it takes to lose enough traction to crash? Not before it happens you won't." No, and you won't know what the professionally made tires will do either. All you have is some data that someone else printed on the box--but who knows if it is true? Only they do, and you if you test them yourself. Do you test things? Do you document the process, and make sure that your results are able to be reproduced by another person? Of course not. You will just sue the company if you ride your bike ON ICE and SLIP AND FALL. Really? Did you somehow not know that ice is slippery? Why should we have to tell you over and over something so basic as "Be careful when biking on ice. It is slippery!" just so that you KNOW that ice is slippery? Of course not. It's called using your brain. "Please don't pretend your great head can forsee what will break in normal use on a project you build" Of course not. That's why you should use your BRAIN and see the dangerous aspects of this project. Nobody knows when things will break and how. Your snow might be colder, which causes failure in the rubber. Your ice might be denser, causing the rivets to slip more and wear faster. NOBODY knows these things, you just have to think of them and try and avoid them as best you can. "that is silly because if you could forsee this then the project would've been designed differently to avoid that breakage." Oh brilliant. Really, stunning logic here. "If something was dangerous, I would have made it another way which was safer!" Your awesome powers of deduction astound even me! Of course he would have! He is using the bloody tires! If it didn't work, then he woulden't be using them! "If you can't stand a warning, don't read it." Here is the point: I do read the warnings, but I also THINK about what I am doing. You should only have warnings about things that are not that obvious. Obvious things are obvious for a reason. If you are too stupid to see them, then maybe a good fall would make you learn your lesson that 'ice is slippery'. "Warnings are not going to prevent you from doing whatever you choose to" No, but they do make me think about why we really need the warning of, "Toothpick is sharp!" or the ever present, "Caution! Coffee is hot!" that I see everywhere that people should KNOW without being told. You aren't told "Warning! Buses go really fast! Don't step out in front of them, or you will get hurt!" do you? But, in your mind, those are the kinds of warnings that we need in the world. Rubbish. "they are not legally binding" Ah, but they are! How many times have you heard about someone suing for something they should know? The 'hot coffee in the lap' springs to mind. The idea that someone was so dumb as to not know coffee is hot astounds me. "nor are we your parents who will punish you if you ignore them" Thank god. I bet your kids never get to even leave the house without a 45-minute presentation on every single little thing that might come to harm their precious little heads because you know about all of these dangerous things and you have to tell them otherwise how would they ever know that everything around them is a potential deathtrap. Or, do you not know and you HOPE that you have given them enough common sense to make smart decisions on their own? "but at the same time they exist for a reason. You would also be removed from the gene pool if it weren't for warnings in some areas of life, nobody is born an expert at anything, let alone everything." Of course not. But if you have never fallen off your bike after slipping on ice--then your parents probably never let you leave the house. What all your posts are complaining about is this: Ice is slippery. Riding your bike is dangerous. Don't forget it. Okay, there. I said it. Now every one knows, and they won't hurt themselves. Stop complaining, and just GROW UP. I am no longer going to reply, as this has gone on far enough and I now have some more insight as to the inner workings of the people who put warnings on products. Thank you.
Wrong, we can realize the positive and negative aspects normally when someone like myself mentions a negative (until someone like yourself wants to censor information!). I didn't write 20 pages, I briefly mentioned something important to consider then you got all bent out of shape because I didn't pretend there aren't any safety or design aspects to consider. Get over yourself. I briefly mentioned something useful to consider and you threw a fit as if we shouldn't have any concern about how a design impacts rider safety. You want to just gloss over it in ignorance while I wanted only to briefly mention something useful to consider. You want censorship and ignorance and that is alway bad.
I am going to break my own vow of silence here and just say, for the LAST TIME: I am not censoring information. I am simply saying that we should not have to remind everybody of obvious dangers such as "Ice is slippery." and "If you puncture holes in a tire, it might pop." That is all.
don't worry, the people who matter know who's right. people like this guy always use the same two tactics... they keep saying the same things over and over like we didn't get it the first seven times... and they get both defensive and offensive, instead of just arguing a point. like "then you get bent all out of shape"... yeah, that's not an argument. "get over yourself" ... "you want censorship and ignorance" ... they're not arguing anything! they think they can strengthen their side by insulting you and your position. brilliant!
Every project has it's positives and negatives, and both should always be weighed without censorship. If you don't appreciate the significance of that, indeed it seems it needed to be mentioned more than once.
the point of instructables is to MAKE them. thats the fun of it.
So why don't you go live at walmart.com, or some such place instead of Instructables. Or maybe you can write an instructable on how to buy something. That would be very creative and original.
With something walmart sells, you should also consider the negative aspects, not just the positive ones. To design or build something without considering this is madness. Creatively crashing and being harmed is not some kind of argument against creativity, it's just common sense that when there is a safety issue that more attention should be paid to these factors than when there is not. There is a much much higher chance of wrecking and suffering bodily harm with this project than most you see on the instructables. It is very irresponsible to argue against consideration of this factor. Be safe and live to do another project, dead people aren't very creative or original.
While I agree with you on some points, I disagree strongly on others...<br/><br/>&quot;Go buy this instead&quot; kind of defeats the purpose of this site. If we all chose to simply buy it, why would we try to make it ourselves? I don't believe any safety warning can be called verbose, but often many safety concerns of manufacturers inflate the issue in the USA's fear-based economy. There are some uncommon-sense rules that people need to know, such as &quot;ice is slippery&quot;, and &quot;motorcycles are not generally designed to do well in icy conditions&quot;, and &quot;do not set fire to yourself after bathing in gasoline, because you may be injured&quot;, but (for the rest of you) people actually need to be told that, due to a lack of (un)common sense...<br/><br/>95% may cause a bruised ego, the other 5% are caused <strong>because of</strong> ego, be it on one side or the other. Of this 100% of accidents, 80% are caused by the <strong>epidemic of ignorance</strong> and the same lack of (un)common sense. Personal safety is knowing what to do, how to do it, and when to do it. The project is a bit crude to professional standards, but still perfectly viable to those who choose to repeat it using that uncommon-sense that only a vast minority of humans choose to pay attention to.<br/><br/>I agree with you, there is no such thing as being verbose when it comes to safety, but do not automatically assume that manufactured products are better than what the average genius can make themselves. I used a primitive lawnmower to clear my driveway of 6&quot; of solid ice with another 8&quot; of snow pile over that, leaving only snow and slush to be shoveled......I bought it for $5, it categorically-defeated a $1600 snow-blower, only needing to shovel it afterwards. This was not the intended use of the product, but it served better when re-purposed with an intelligent motive. &quot;Just because it's called a 'hair-dryer' does not mean it is not simply a 'heat gun', by any means. To argue that, is the pinnacle of 'willful-ignorance'&quot;<br/><br/>This is why I have no need for any cleaning product claiming to &quot;protect my family&quot;, or &quot;disinfectant&quot; anywhere near the name. A capful of bleach in a 24-oz. spray bottle of water is the ultimate sanitizer, and to buy some other cleaner is simply absurd and alarmist-consumerism.<br/><br/>Necessity is the mother of all invention, and clearly this is an example. If we just bought everything we needed when we could do it ourselves, we learn to become dependent on these people who actually do it. What happens when they are not there to sell you a special device that opens your front-door for you, after you've forgotten that you can open it yourself by simply employing the effort to turn a knob? Necessity brought us all these conveniences, to rely on them now is an exercise in &quot;maliciously-negligent ignorance&quot;.<br/><br/>Do you want to be the genius, or do you want to be the people who rely on them? Make it yourself, and do not rely on the profiteers to do it for you. When al lthe chips are down, the only person you can really rely on is yourself, so give yourself some credit. If you have trouble doing so, imagine holocaust, and how you would survive. It's about time people learn more than a &quot;fashionable education&quot;, and actually learn how to live. Consumerism is the former, and promotes a dismissal of formal education over an emotional reaction. The Iraq war is a good example of how an emotional religion overrides the rules of (un)common-sense; and you see where that has gotten us...<br/><br/>Re-purposing is the soul of this site. You can buy a car and a can crusher, or you can buy the car and also crush cans with it by simply driving over them. It may not be the most efficient method, but the single-purpose of a vehicle is now re-purposed as an effective can-crusher, without having to buy another device. As you can see, to buy a can-crusher as well as the car arbitrarily is not always the most-prudent route. Capitalism nor consumerism is in no way the solution for anything.<br/><br/>Studded tires that were manufactured may not even perform as well as those made in this project, and if not, the manufacturer surely would not want you to know that.<br/>
Regardless of the purpose of the 'site, it's important to realize BOTH the positive and negative aspects. Doing something just because it can be done then ignoring any potential negative consequences is fine so long as those are recognized, but better done on projects that don't involve vehicle wrecks which can be deadly. With a can crusher, if it doesn't turn out right is the chance of significant injury the same? With a can crusher if it does turn out right is there the same chance of significant injury? We could have an instructable for a nuclear reactor too but that also wouldn't be a good idea.
I see where you're coming from and I respect that. It is cooler to make your own stuff. In the case of mountain bike tires for off-road you can make yourself better performing studded tires with a bunch of screws than anything you can buy off the shelf. But for the road...well...that's a place where I am totally willing to pay for some good engineering...my crash-dummy years are over!
Thanks for taking my comment constructively. I don't get that often here...
No, it is not six of one, half dozen of the other. You fail to see the crucial difference, which is that with a properly designed tire you will always have at least two offset studs making contact at any one moment. With these, depending on the spacing and # of rivets the installer chooses, there can be moments when no studs are in contact with ice. That is an extremely significant difference. You aren't understanding the factors involved in traction on ice with a two wheeled vechicle, except going perfectly straight on a flat surface. Paved surfaces (without ice) are fairly irrelevant, you'll ruin either tire if riding around on pavement for more than a short stretch at a time on a trek that's otherwise mostly ice and snow. Granted, putting rivet studs in a tire may be a lot better than not having those studs, but at the same time it should not create a false sense of security and definitely not the impression they are as good as professionally engineered, TESTED PER THEIR PERFORMANCE(!!!!!) real snow/ice tires. There really is a reason they are different, it wasn't just a whim when they were designed and improved year over year.
When the studs stick out further, they are in contact with the surface over a greater angle of wheel rotation. Hence, the goal, as you set out, of having studs in contact with the surface at all times, is achievable. Your comment on Nokian tires' unsuitability for pavement operation is interesting. In fact Nokian specify that their tires are to be broken in by 30 miles of pavement running before ever being used on ice.

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