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I refill my littles 1 pound propane bottles from a big one. I'm going to show you how...
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Signing UpStep 1Safety First & Disclaimer
Disclaimer : Whenever there is propane there is risk. If you decide to refill your propane tanks yourself, you have to understand that you do it at your own risk. These cylinders aren't DOT approved for refilling. This means that you can't take your cylinders to the local propane-equipped service station and have them refilled. That's against the law. And refilled cylinders can't be sold commercially. And commercial operators can't transport refilled cylinders across state lines. There are all sorts of limitations and potential liabilities associated with refilling these cylinders. It's perfectly legal to refill them for personal use, however.
There is some safety precautions that you have to take when refilling your disposable propane cylinders and you will need to handle it properly and observe all the best-practice safety protocols.
#1 Always do the refill process outside.
#2 Never smoke during the entire process.
#3 Be sure there is no open flame in the area.
#4 Wear safety glasses and protection gloves for added safety.
Again, I am not responsible for any accident that can happen when you refill your own disposable propane tank.
There is some safety precautions that you have to take when refilling your disposable propane cylinders and you will need to handle it properly and observe all the best-practice safety protocols.
#1 Always do the refill process outside.
#2 Never smoke during the entire process.
#3 Be sure there is no open flame in the area.
#4 Wear safety glasses and protection gloves for added safety.
Again, I am not responsible for any accident that can happen when you refill your own disposable propane tank.
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#1 Do not, under any circumstances, a cylinder to 100 %! Propane has a high temperature/volume expansion rate. Too full when cold means it pops off when it goes hydrstatic (liquid full @ high pressure). 85% MAXIMUM!!!
#2 propane expands at a ratio of 1 to 270 when it goes from a liquid to vapor. Stack up 270 of those little cylinders in your trunk behind where your kids ride in the car on a good hot day.
#3 There is a technical explanation as to why you find half full 1# cylinders in the forest, I mean besides the fact they are wasteful litterbug jerks.
It goes like this, If you know the physical properties of propane, you know that propane appliances burn propane vapor. At atmospheric pressure propane is a vapor. At -44 degrees it is a "0" pressure liquid. Pressurize propane in a tank and you can keep it liquid at higher temperatures. Think thermodynamics. Small tanks, small volume, gas cools in cylinder faster, chills gas to -44, no vapor, no burn. No burn, must be out of gas, throw away 1/2 full tank. (yes, I've seen it! Over and over!)
Big tank, big volume,gas cools slower, doesn't get to -44, burn hotter longer
Better yet, just don't do it. state an federal agencies do'nt write rules to "big Brother" us. They may seem misguided sometimes but they really want us tobe safe
#1&2
Gasses expand with temperature.
If Nit-wit fills a tank's total volume with liquid gas under pressure, there's no room for it to expand.
Tank bursts.
Ouchy.
#3
As Nit-wit uses the gas in the cylinder quickly, more liquid evaporates cooling the rest of the liquid because of the same physics air conditioners work on.
The rest of the liquid gets so cold that it won't evaporate any more.
Nit-wit discards half full cylinder.
Half full tank has time to warm up again.
Smart guy picks up half full cylinder.
Litter Bad.
Free Propane Good.
This is a dangerous thing to do. There is a good reason that these cylinders are not rated for refilling. They are designed for 1 use, but are over spec'd for safety. It's that safety margin that you are playing with.
Have you ever seen the sort of explosion and the devastation that one of these can cause, it can easily kill.
So if you’re going to refill, then having more info is very valuable. It could save your life. So if you do not understand the info passed on here, do not refill any cylinders. Or, rather do, and rid the gene pool of yourself.
Jaykaying, Johnsned51, jkjk...
I actually learned something. Thank you.
The valve may have been used to bleed air on the first factory fill.
But as you use the original fill, propane gas exits only. No air enters the tank.
The "air" in the tank is simply leftover Propane gas at a pressure of approx 1 atmosphere.
To vent this gas is wasteful and you run the risk of overfilling the cylinder too.
What happens then? As the temperature rises the pressure valve releases the extra, wasting more gas.
Hook up a full tank (under high pressure) to an empty tank (under less pressure relative to the full one) and open the valve between them and the pressures will equalize. Some of the contents of the full tank are forced into the empty one until the pressures are equal. Close the valve and disconnect. Done.
Ozone near the ground is called smog.
Ozone is not produced by releasing or burning Propane/LNG.
Ozone is not a greenhouse gas.
Global warming is a political hoax.
AND
Propane is not considered a greenhouse gas.
source:http://www.propane101.com/propanegreenenergyfuel.htm
And my addition: Propane occurs naturally in the atmosphere, I believe, much like methane, which is a greenhouse gas.
Propane Liquid
Propane exists in its liquid form at or below its boiling point (-44°F) as well as when it stored under pressure. To further explain, if the temperature outside is -45°F, propane will be a liquid and you would be able to pour it out of a bucket. But as soon as the temperature rises to -44°F, the propane begins to boil and thus give off vapor. If the temperature outside is colder than -44°F, propane exists as a liquid. It's still propane but it looks a lot like water while at this cold temperature. It's colorless, odorless and tasteless...but who would take a drink of a any liquid that is 45 degrees below zero? Who would stick their finger in a glass of anything that is 45 degrees below zero? Holding a handful of ice can be quite uncomfortable (or painful) after some time but think how painful it would be if that handful of ice was almost 75 degrees colder.
Because propane boils at a temperature that is over 70 degrees lower than the freezing point of water, it has the ability to freeze skin tissue in a very short period of time (severe frostbite). The temperature properties of liquid propane are such that being aware of possible danger when dealing with propane in its liquid state is extremely important.
Propane Vapor
Propane becomes a vapor at temperatures above -44°F. Similar to water when it boils and gives off steam, propane gives off vapor when it boils. One may refer to propane vapor as "flammable steam" for simplicity. However, for the propane vapor to be ignited, there must be the right mix of air and vapor. Propane vapor is heavier than air and will sink to and collect in the lowest point it can find. If propane is vented to the outside air, it will quickly dissipate with the slightest movement of air. Conversely, if propane is vented into an air tight structure with no air movement, the propane vapor will collect on the floor and rise vertically if more propane is vented into the structure.
This is extremely important to know because if there is a propane leak in a house or building, the propane vapor will seek the lowest possible point where it will collect. Keep in mind that one gallon of propane will produce over 36 cubic feet of vapor and this vapor will settle in the lowest possible place. If the propane vapor level continues to rise, it may ignite if finds a source of ignition. The weight of propane vapor being heavier than that of air is a characteristic of propane gas that needs to be understood by all LP Gas users, not just propane companies and their employees.
so this means it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE in temperatures above -44*f to just "spill" propane. it would evaporate either before OR upon hitting the ground. Propane IS toxic, IS caustic, and DOES pollute (touche though on one point that it is less pollutant by much more than gasoline, but it is still a pollutant), will freeze ANYTHING it touches. THIS DOESNT COUNT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF AN ACCIDENTAL SPARK WERE TO COME DOWN ON THE PROPANE!!!
Another thing to note...propane expands to 270X its original volume from a liquid. so you would see a considerable explosion/fireball if you were to ignite it. even hinting that propane is not dangerous is wrong and irresponsible.
Wall*Mart $20
yes you have to have some extension hoses too, I think refilling partial mini tanks is a pain too. you have to weigh the difference in your situation. Everything about camping is a pain except the relaxing by the fire lol
:)
Refilling small cylinders at home makes more sense for some.
follow the rules and play it safe and go easy and you'll be alright
the only reason i wont do this is because i'm pretty lazy
Weighing the small cylinder helped to determine how much propane went into it---only about half its rated capacity, despite chilling it.
As others have noted, the Schrader valve on the little cylinder could be opened during filling, and that would allow more liquid propane to fill the small tank. It's awkward to open the Schrader valve, though, since it needs to be pulled out, rather than pushed in, to vent propane vapor, which would allow enough liquid propane for a complete fill.
For filling paintball canisters with CO2, a big tank with a siphon tube was used, so that liquid CO2 came out the valve---not just vapor. Inverting the 20lb propane tank produced the same effect of dispensing liquid, not gas vapor, but the little tank still needs to be vented, it seems, to allow for a full liquid fill, to the small cylinder's rated 1 lb. capacity.
With CO2, it's possible to arrange a couple of valves that can be opened/closed in sequence, to purge the vapor, and allow liquid fill, but with the brass adapters sold to refill disposable propane cylinders, there's no similar venting /purging option, other than opening the Schrader valve during filling.
If you're not sure how much is in the bottle (the usual case)
then just take a cup of hot water (or some of your hot coffee)
and slowly pour it over the top of the bottle on one side.
Then quickly (before it cools) run your hand down the side
of the bottle. It will get noticeably cooler at the liquid level.
(the metal is quite thin so it heats/cools rather quickly)
This makes it easier to keep below the magic 80% rule.
At least you can get a good idea how much is in the bottle
before you embark on transferring the liquid without a scale.
-works equally well on a bigger (supply) bottle.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/02/06/1-dead-1-injured-in-polk-county-garage-explosion/
http://www.allpropanemowers.com/v.php?pg=232
Jeff
They even seem to be welded.
But it seems to me that you could come up with containers that are a lot more portable and easier to use than a non-refillable helium tank at 10PSI. Those tanks aren't spectacularly heavy, but they weigh more than they need to for a 10PSI application.
A mountain bike tire (not just the tube, you need the tire and rim assembly as well) could easily keep 50-60PSI without strain, weighs a lot less, and can be refilled many times. And you can refill it in the field with a bicycle pump.
Heck, you could probably use a couple of mountain bike tires on a cart that would carry your tools around. Get to the job site, hook your air tool up to one of the tires, drain that one, hook it up to the other, drain that one, then use the bike pump to pump the tires back up as needed (and when you're done, so the cart works properly again).
I realize it probably wouldn't carry a lot of volume, but if you can regulate it to your 10PSI the tire would probably last quite some time starting at 50PSI.