Run Your Car on Hydrogen from Aluminum Soda Cans and Lye

James Burgett of computer recycling fame shows me his test setup at
ACCRC for running his Lincoln on aluminum soda cans.

They threw this rig together quickly to test the concept.
The concept works.

Here's how it works.

Soda cans are dumped into a tank of Lye (sodium hydroxide and water).
The sodium hydroxide peels off the aluminum oxide surface from the aluminum allowing water to come into contact with aluminum metal. The aluminum immediately oxidizes, ripping the water's oxygen atoms away to make aluminum oxide. That releases the hydrogen which bubbles out to be burned in the Lincoln's engine.
Here's the reaction: H2O + Al -> AlO2 + H2 + heat

Step 1 Lye tank and water bubbler

Here's James with the lye tank. The aluminum cans go in here.
His left hand is on the hydrogen vent hose. The gas that bubbles out of it is hot and steamy and has a fair amount of powdery white aluminum oxide in it. So next it goes into a pipe to the bottom of the white bubbler tank, where it bubbles through water. That makes it cool and clean.
Just like in a hookah or bong.

Comments

[JeremyA]

I'm not trying to be negative, but this is a terrible waste. I appreciate the science behind this but it would be much better in overall energy savings to recycle the cans. That way the aluminum would be re-used and save the intensive amounts of energy that is used to produce new aluminum. Hydrogen powered cars are also completely uneccesary. I would suggest BioDiesel which is what I use, or if you prefer a gasoline style engine and have a truck you should look into The Mother Earth News wood gas generator. Both are much less offensive uses of energy. This in my eyes, is like burning gold.

[rogermyers]

Hi JeremyA

Have you considered how much diesel fuel is used by farmers in the harvesting of whatever oil you plan on using for your bio-diesel? Although how about using electrolysis to produce hydrogen and oxygen, which can be injected into the fuel mixture of a regular car?

Rog

[JeremyA]

nothing is free Roger. However the amount of diesel used to produce the feedstock for the oil is very little. A diesel engine running at low RPM is very fuel efficient. The total energy demands versus energy output of BioDiesel is something on the order of 3 units out/1 unit in. It is a energy gain. The nice thing about BioDiesel now, vs. when I first got into it, is that it is not just heresay anymore. It's all documented. Do some searches on biodiesel and you will see it is the way to go. I have also witnessed systems similar to albee's set up below in real life and they are spectacular. They are a great addition to any engine and wish they would take off more.

[albee]

Actually. using an electrolyzer to produce hydrogen and oxygen is the best method! Theres no mess other than a quick wash out of the unit once every other week and the gas mileage gains are great! My 93 4x4 subaru 2.2L went from 17.3 in town to 25.4...ON THE HIGHWAY I WENT FROM 21.4 to (50.91 MPG) thats right 50.91....Doesn't seem like a waste to me!I paid the unit I built off on my first trip!!!

[Mr.Stein]

If you didn't waterproof the cylinders and exhaust system, your car is going to be ruined. Burning hydrogen and oxygen creates water, which can rust them out.

[rogermyers]

Hi Albee - can you post some details about your electrolyzer on here? I'd love to know more. Almost all of my mileage in on the highway!

regards

Rog

[HandymanL]

Can you post where to get the instructions on how to make this and where to get any special materials. This looks like an easier and cheaper way to make than some of the other methods I have seen. Thanks

[jj.inc]

Check out my dry cell powerpoint, I'm not trying to get views I just think it would help, it has some good information on electrolizers and where to get plans.
http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Basics-Of-A-Hydrogen-Dry-Cell/

[8258groby]

Where can i get plans to build this electrolyzer? Thanks Eth

[Insaneisfun]

If you would look in to the number concerning what you said you would see your folly.

[JeremyA]

That is kind of a vague response. What number concerning what part of what I said. I know exactly what I am talking about, so I don't see my "folly". Besides who says folly? Are you from the USA? Have you ever been with the opposite sex? Your comment about recycling the cans putting the stored energy to waste is ridiculous too. With how many uses we have for aluminum we should not be lightly destroying it for fuel purposes. The harvesting and processing of aluminum takes tons of electricity. Recycling it for re-use in other aluminum goods saves as much as 75% of the electricity usage, which many times is produced using coal fired powerplants. The overall energy used to create the aluminum can in the first place vs. the amount of energy put out to the wheels of the car is so inefficient, you might as well just create a coal powered car. Do some more research.

[smelter]

Since the nay-sayers object to the amout of power used to produce new aluminum, let me say this;
I am very green conscious, I run 7 large solar panels and a 450 watt wind generator. These charge a bank of golf card batteries which run a 5000 watt Inverter from which I get 120Volts a.c.
I can use this to get 12 VDC to run the hydrogen device to provide fuel for my main vehicle engine or my 120VAC propane fired generator.
So my aluminum use is free except for the deposit I could get by selling the cans. I get those for free along the highway anyway.
An often overlooked source of aluminum is old window and door frames, eavestrough, enhine blocks, manifolds etc. and I really watch where the hydro electric company is working, the high voltage power lines are often aluminum and they always have scraps and chunks that I can talk them out of...
Most of this stuff winds up in the landfill anyway.

[smelter]

Ok lets run this through the mill--- I collect and melt down aluminum cans into small ingots for later use to make antique car and boat parts. So, the paint, excess oxides etc are already gone. I could pour the aluminum into a mold to make grids or whatever to run into the lye solution like nuclear fuel rods. The excess heat could be used to preheat aluminum scrap for melting. Perhaps the hydrogen could be used to augment the propane usd in my home made air blast smelter. I have ordered a unit to put in my 1 ton chev diesel truck...
Jim

[jj.inc]

I might of missed it but what is your lye water ratio, do you use a small amount of it, or like 20, 1lb jars of it.

[kjjohn]

Do the aluminum cans eventually dissolve completely? And how often do you have to "refill" with water, lye, or cans?

[Aquarius]

It is all going to depend upon the size of your generator's holding capacity. With a 2.5 gallon tank, I was able to produce hydrogen for roughly 1 hour and fifteen minutes before the water was depleted. At that point, there was still some residual aluminum remaining in the generator. It is also going to depend upon other variables. If you add more caustic material, it will generally react faster and also expend the fuel (water) faster. If you are able to remove the plastic lining and paint from the aluminum, the reaction will, again, begin faster and also expend the fuel faster. There are many variables and it is all relative to those factors.

[Aquarius]

Yes. They will. They will actually cause the oxygen molecule to bond with the aluminum, as the hydrogen gas is released. The waste product that is produced in the process is called aluminum oxide, or alumina. It is the result of the aluminum and oxygen interacting. Alumina is used for many different industrial uses including brake pads, sand paper, or even body armor. So, it will dissolve into a powered substance (once all water is removed through either the process of creating the hydrogen, or from draining it from the tank that is utilized. The caustic material will, of course, still be mixed with the alumina at that point. I used such a system on a 1988 Honda Accord with a carb and an automatic transmission and achieved 50 mpg on the combination of gasoline and hydrogen, several years ago. I've recently begun to work on these projects, again, and I'm incorporating this same chemical generator into my truck, as well as an HHO unit. Unfortunately, I now have to spend additional time and money dealing with tricking the computer, as it is fuel injected.

[ade hendra]

FIRST STEP TO BE A BAD TERRORIST..HUAHAHAHAHA......LoL...

[type THE END]

If u had fuel injection you cloud add it to the intake valve for air

[JOEDUPONT]

I would think that you could spray the solution on the aluminum until the pressure built up and then cut the spray or dip it. I think the key is to use hydrogen to burn.. say hot oil vapors. that way you need only a fraction of the h2 to upgrade used smoking cooking oil smoke.

[herrybarnacle]

Look scary as hell, but you rock! (hope your next door neighbor has a bomb shelter)

[herrybarnacle]

Does this (aluminum + Lye ) reaction generate straight hydrogen or a combo of hydrogen/oxygen like electrolysis?

[TimAnderson]

Straight hydrogen. The oxygen turns the aluminum to aluminum oxide and stays in the tank as a white powder.

[herrybarnacle]

oops, I guiess your pics tell the story. how much pressure/volume does it take to keep the engine running?

[herrybarnacle]

Hi Tim, Cool stuff. If you were going to run an engine on straight hho, would you use injectors or just send it through the air intake and bypass the fuel lines?

[m0j0]

does your motor now run without gasoline, or is this just an enhancement of the gasoline combustion process?

[arduinoe]

its mainly just an enhancement , but try sticking that thing on your car !!!

[davodana]

Yikes! A pressure vessel is DEFINITELY the way to go - and quickly! One little leak from the garbage bag, plus one little spark ... PLEASE be careful!

[mash4077]

cool this almost looks like mine but mine is internal in my van cool to see a hydrogen guy like me:)

[Mark Regan]

Since it produces so much heat, what about using the contraption as a heat source for hunting cabins, remote outposts, etc.? That way you can drink your beer and not have to pack the cans out to the recycle place, and you can produce heat without having to cut down trees for firewood. The unit could be outside the cabin and heat pipes or tubing containing a substance (used motor oil?) that can be circulated safely into the cabin. A firewall can be built to insulate the heating unit from the structure of the cabin in the event it explodes or catches fire. Size and weight would not matter when used to heat a cabin, but would matter a lot if used to power a car. Every evening, the beer cans would go into the "heater unit" instead of the trash. It could be the answer to every lazy man's dream. The more you drink, the warmer you get. Hey, pass me another cold one so I can get warm.

[JamesRPatrick]

Now there's an idea.

[rlbob1]

I Dunno Guys Now that I have thought it over a bit I think you should abandon this. I am impressed with your effort but dismayed with your knowledge of hydrogen gas. If you wish to continue this try controlled experiments on a smaller scale and then proceed forward. I guess the best way to explain my feeling is the setup you show should have exploded several times due to the natural backfire of the engine with improper mix. Thus the trash bag. Under NO circumstance try compressing the mixture you are generating. An explosion will result due to the huge amounts of oxygen in the mix. Only a tiny 6-10% is enough to blow up. I suggest you research things a bit and try a few simple experiments yourself before posting such as this. If you do not wish to follow my advice at least understand that my safety issues come from near miss. Yea, some dumb kid lit the balloon on the bottle trick and blasted lye and shattered glass over everyone present. Thank God I wore glasses being the one closest running "Stop .. No". Would have been blinded for life. bob

[rlbob1]

Great job. I remember this trick when I was a teenager. Take a returnable coke bottle and add a water and lye solution halfway. Then add aluminum foil and tie a balloon on top. Knot the end add a fuse or firecracker let go and run. From what I recall here are some of the problems I encountered. Heat .. lots of it enough to break the bottle. Water vapor caused by the steam and efforvescence of the reaction mixes with the gas and enters the balloon as condensate. Obvious chemical burns were caused by handling the vapor and occasionally a head of two caught fire from the explosion. Still this is an easy way to produce hydrogen. Those that suggest an electrolyzer mounted in the car simply don't understand the physics involved. You simply could not produce the energy to run the engine and electrolyzer at the same time. Its a fraud perpetuated by the Internet. Mythbusters proved that. Its the old childhood idea of "let's hook a motor to a generator and it will run itself". On the other hand, the lye and aluminum idea will absolutely work and does not defy physics. It's just it will take a lot of engineering to make it safe. Heres the rundown: Hydrogen is explosive as we all know but the slightest trace of oxygen can make it so. So it would be best not to try storing it in any large amount and generate it only as needed. An oxygen scavenger such as platinum gauze needs to be somewhere in the system. The fumes given off as water vapor are quite corrosive and alkali so the gas needs to run through some type of filter such as a secondary bubbler to remove and neutralize the PH of the gas contaminents and dry the gas. Otherwise it will wreck the non ferrous parts of the engine. The heat given off is of course a BIG problem. You will have to devise some method to get rid of it. Heat of course is also where a lot of your energy loss is going but "there is no free ticket on energy". And finally there is the destruction of the engine itself due to the extremely violent and hot flame burn charateristics of hydrogen. The valves will take the greatest hit initally followed by the rods and pistons. As the engine overheats all surfaces could fail due to oil thinning. Don't get me wrong I an not saying this will not work. I know it will work but these problems need to be addressed a step at a time. The biggest of course is safety especially the danger of the caustic solution and an explosion. Even a plain old car battery can explode from hydrogen gas if you fail to jump it right. Make sure you have a fire extinguisher on hand at all times and wear eye and body protection. Think of it as a lab. good luck bob

[panstar1]

instead of trying to rig up a butter fly valve ,just use a carb from a propane powered engine just remove the the high pressure reg and the low pressure reg (propane engines heat liquid propane into a gas so as not to turn the tank into a block of ice and having no pressure ) I think the pressure is 2.5 inches of mercury same as most gas appliances. ( i was a hvac tech) I am not sure if a natural gas one would work natural gas has less btu's per cubic foot then propane. But natural gas engine on cars /truck only use gas cylinders while propane uses liquid so both might work since natural gas might be closer to hydrogen's specific gravity but it's still up to you

[!Andrew_Modder!]

they did this on mythbusters. but the only problem is you need a hydrogen tank on at all times, and in tests, it has caught the car on fire. :-\ this would be more practical if there were more saftey involved

P.S. **WOOT** new mythbusters on in 1 hour 58 min :---D

[trebuchet03]

Mythbuster's didn't use caustic soda to generate hydrogen - they used an electrolyzer (something you can buy off the internet :p). The concept is very different - one is a chemical reaction - one is physically decomposing water and requires an external electrical input. Finally, the mythbuster's version did, in fact, backfire. I wouldn't expect less with unmetered fuel handled like that (and that could potentially show not so healthy valve seals) :p That being said there is no "you need it on all the time" -- you can't just turn this reaction off. Once it's going, the only way to stop it is by removing reagents.

[lowestgasprices]

This method removes the Oxygen H can not burn without air HHO is a air fuel mixture and can burn or explode be careful with it

[hg341]

very nice i love it and mythbuster is in 44 mints

[!Andrew_Modder!]

44 mints?

[phoenix124]

yah, the time it takes to eat 44 altoids. gosh i thought everybody used the confectioner's clock :P