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TRULY insulate your loft (or attic!) - and save the planet

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Picture of TRULY insulate your loft (or attic!)  - and save the planet
Being time rich and money poor, I wanted to cut my outgoings, and be a bit greener.

So I fixed SF40 SuperFOIL to the underside of my rafters to keep warm, cut bills and save the planet: www.superfoil.co.uk/SF40-titlepage.html

I chose SF40 because:

a) It nails to the roof, so you can still use the loft for storage
b) It has a radiant heat barrier
c) It is the equivalent of fitting 450mm (18 inches) depth of fibreglass*
d) It should keep us cool in summer too

I expect there are other products you could use, but this one seemed right for us.

There are a lot of steps to this instructable, but it's not as complex as all that. I waste a lot of time talking about nailguns and such. You can skip to step 16 if you want.

NB: Apparently what we Brits call a loft is what our Yankee cousins call an attic. For them this 'ible is about attics.

* Clarification: fibreglass does not block radiant heat; the quilt does. In order to get the same savings, you would have to install 18" of fibreglass. But this does NOT mean that the R values are the same. See the manufacturer's brochure illustrated in the second pic of step 3.

 
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Step 1: And here it is

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I need the floor space because I keep a load of old tut in my loft. If you don't store things in your loft, you could just lay loads of layers of fibreglass - but you still wouldn't have the radiant heat barrier the quilt gives you and the fibreglass will still have gaps.

You can use insulating boards; but they don't give the same insulation value, and you can't cut them with a pair of scissors.

Step 2: Roof first please

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It's pointless doing any other insulation to your house until you have thoroughly done the roof. The roof is where the major losses are, and heat will seek out the weakest area.

Oh, by all means have double-glazing installed, and fit draught proofing strip. But it won't REALLY make any difference until the roof is done. The current recommended depth for mineral wool insulation is 270mm (www.energysavingtrust.org.uk), and the more the better, really.

As you can see, I've gone for 450mm equivalent SF40 quilt. Plus we already had 120mm of fibreglass on the loft floor and T&G floor panels on top. We should be toasty!

Step 3: Seal it!

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The roof is only as well-insulated as its weakest point. If there's a gap in your insulation, heat will make a beeline for it and escape. It's like pressurising a balloon: if there's a tiny pinprick hole, all the air will eventually escape from it.

So the details are crucial. With a quilted loft, the idea is to make an airtight seal. So don't leave any gaps, or you've wasted your money.

NB - The maker's instructions assume you are going to put a ceiling in to make a liveable space; I wasn't doing this, so used no battens etc.

Step 4: Preparation 1 - TV reception

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This is an internal loft TV aerial.

Have you got one like this?

If you have, don't do what I did, and wait till you have half-installed the quilt, only to discover that:

THE TV SIGNAL WON'T PENETRATE THE FOIL

- you'll need an outside aerial or a dish.

DUH. What a divvie I was.

Step 5: Preparation 1a - floorboards

Picture of Preparation 1a - floorboards
I boarded out the loft before I started the job. This has advantages and disadvantages.

The good bit is that you really need those boards to walk on, lie on, kneel on (ouch - my knees) and so forth, especially when you're working in the eaves. You really don't want to put a foot through the ceiling.

On the other hand, it does slightly limit your options when it comes to end walls and eaves.

At the eaves, I'd have liked to staple to the wallplate - but actually that would have been difficult anyway.

Ideally on the end walls I'd have liked to staple the quilt to the last rafter and THEN screw down the floorboards. Instead I made do with stapling to the boards which I had already screwed to the last rafter. I don't suppose it will make much difference.

So on balance, I'm glad I boarded the loft first.

Step 6: Preparation 2 - choose your weapons

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DANGER - DANGER - DANGER.

'Do you want a staple through your finger? '

It could put an end to your DIY career for ever. So save yourself that trip to casualty, and read this first.

A nailgun is essential - nailing upwards is a pain, and you need to nail every couple of inches to spread the strain and get a good seal. That's a lorra lorra nails.

First, I hired a Paslode gas-powered nailgun with 25mm (1 inch) staples - and that was just barely adequate for the SF40. A standard DIY shop nailgun uses maximum 14mm staples: that will not do the job - or anything like.

But nailguns are scary. If you're not scared, you don't understand the full extent of their power... See step 9.

Step 7: How to prime the gas for a gas-powered gun

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Just in case you have the same issues as me, the gas canister has to be prepared to go in the gun.

It starts out with the black cap sitting a few millimetres proud of the canister - first pic. You need to press the black part hard down against the canister till it drops into a lower position, flat down on the canister - second pic.

It took us hours to work this out from the gun's dismal instructions.

Oh - and be aware that a gas gun pumps out carbon monoxide. This is not good for you. Make sure your space is well ventilated.

Step 8: Preparation 2a - erm... not this one

Picture of Preparation 2a - erm... not this one
It was suggested to me that a hand-powered stapler of the sort you buy from a stationery store would do - or even a hammer and nails.

Do not even think of it. There will be times when you need to staple through two - and sometimes three - layers of fabric. A hand-powered nailgun will give you RSI in seconds.

But you will want the hammer and nails to tidy up any corners.

Step 9: Preparation 2b - yes, THIS one

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Eventually I bought myself a Tacwise 191EL which fires 30mm staples - albeit only 7mm wide as opposed to the Paslode's 12mm. I found that this was just as good as the gas-powered gun - and in some ways better, as it is lighter to use and needs no gas. And it was only fifty quid.

Keep your hands away from the end of the nailgun. I mean really away. The staples don't come out where it looks as though they might. It really is a gun, and those staples come out ******* quick. I came as close as I ever want to to getting a staple through the finger: the passage of the staple burnt my finger as it passed - that's how close. And I was being careful. So you be doubly careful.

Step 10: Preparation 3

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Order your quilt.

The SF40 is twice the weight, twice the thickness and twice as unmanageable as the SF19; but it is equivalent to 450mm of fibreglass (as opposed to 275mm), and for three rolls I paid only 60 quid more. When I bought it, the SF40 was about 140 quid a roll.

I asked the advice of the supplier about how many rolls I would need. He said three. In actual fact I needed five (but I was being extra thorough).

So make your own measurements - like I didn't. :-(

A roll is 1.5m wide, but you will need to overlap it top and bottom, so effectively it only covers 1.2 or 1.3 metres. A roll is 10 metres long.

It is better to over-order than under-order: if you find yourself needing an extra roll of quilt at the last minute - as I did - it will be more costly than buying a load all at once.

Step 11: First steps 1

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OK - now let's start fitting the quilt.

Here are some general guidelines. These are things I learned by screwing up. So you don't need to.

The quilt is light - but not THAT light! The manufacturers say that a roll of SF40 weighs 15kg. You need to hold it up to the rafters, stretch it tight diagonally from previous fixings, and then attach it.

Nailguns are heavy (the Paslode weighs 5kg!). Hold two bags of sugar above your head with one hand, stretch a piece of fabric above your head with the other hand, and then press a trigger. You will be tired. You will be hot. You will sweat. TIRED HOT SWEATY PEOPLE HAVE ACCIDENTS.

So work in short bursts. When the sweat runs down your face will be a good time to stop. Our first length took two of us three hours to fit - because the first is most difficult, and we were getting the hang of it. (Yes - pun intentional. Sorry.)

Step 12: First steps 2 - timescale

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My loft is just shy of 20 feet long. Working alone, I found I could do two lengths in a day. OK, I'm unfit. So maybe you can do three, Mr Macho. But even with two of you on the job, retro fitting a loft is several days' work.

Obviously if you fit the quilt before the roof goes on it's easier. But I didn't plan to reroof the house just yet awhile.

It is a two-person job. I fitted a lot of quilt on my own, but I didn't enjoy it, and I made a poor job compared to when I had a mate.

Also, some of the work is uncomfortable and unpleasant (eg squeezing into the eaves): it's nice to share it with a friend. Even better with an enemy...

Step 13: First steps 3 - plan your lengths

Picture of First steps 3 - plan your lengths
The instructions say to fix strips of fabric horizontally. That is what I did in the main roof space - though when it came to the eaves I made some vertical strips, as you'll see later. You can use the quilt vertically throughout if you prefer (along the rafters instead of across them) but you will have to deal with many more joints, which means more wasted fabric and loads more sealing tape.

Make sure you get your overlaps right. I found that the margin between the seam and the edge of the fabric was about right, making an overlap of about 8 inches. The manufacturers say a 3 inch overlap is enough - but I found the slippery quilt slides around a lot, and a 3" overlap soon becomes an 'oh, whoops, it doesn't quite reach'.

Make sure all joints of fabric are where you can get at them. I didn't.

Try not to make cuts longer than they have to be. A cut more than a foot or so is only going to waste fabric: you're better off making a slightly larger overlap at the other side.

Consider using short lengths: they are more manageable. On the other hand, joints are tiresome and waste fabric.

Start nailing from the top: let gravity stretch the fabric for you. Otherwise you're pulling against it. You will want to keep the fabric taut in two directions in any case - three is impossible.

Step 14: First steps 4 - right to the eaves

Picture of First steps 4 - right to the eaves
It is crucial to take the fabric right into the eaves - but also essential not to block the gap between roof and rafters. The design of my roof makes this difficult; I made a series of trays and stitched SF40 onto them. The upright parts of the trays keep the gap open for air movement, while the base holds the quilt down to the wallplate.

I'm not sure this is the best solution. It certainly used up a lot of fabric, and means a lot of joints to tape over in a confined space.. But I wasn't comfortable just nailing the quilt to the floorboards.

Step 15: First steps 4 - tips and tricks

Picture of First steps 4 - tips and tricks
When you get the hang of it, you can use the nailgun nose to press the fabric against the rafters and fire in one action.

Initially fix the quilt strips with a hammer and a few nails - just enough to get it in position. Then you can easily adjust if you need to.

Do not stint on light. You need to see what you are doing. Hire or buy a halogen lamp if you need to. The alternative may be a 25mm staple through your finger: which would you prefer?

I REPEAT:

Keep your hands away from the end of the nailgun. I mean really away. The staples don't come out where it looks as though they might. It really is a gun, and those staples come out ****** quick. I came as close as I ever want to to getting a staple through the finger: the passage of the staple burnt my finger as it passed - that's how close. And I was being careful. So you be doubly careful.

Step 16: OK - off we go: first length of quilt

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OK. So cut a length of quilt the same length as your loft. (Actually, a tad longer would be wise.)

TIP: You'll find it easier to cut the quilt DOWNSTAIRS, and carry the cut length up into the loft.

Start in the middle of the roof, at the highest point. Staple your length to the rafters.

If you have nasty trusses getting in the way (like I did) you'll need to cut slots in the fabric so you can pass the fabric around the uprights.

Try not to make cuts longer than they have to be. A cut longer than a foot or so is only going to waste fabric: you're better off making a slightly larger overlap at the other side.

Make sure all joints of fabric are where you can see them - otherwise a beam is going to get in the way of the joint, making it more difficult to staple to the rafter AND to seal with tape afterwards.

Just like I didn't...

Step 17: Second length

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Overlap the second length of quilt over the first, and tack to the rafters.

Step 18: More lengths

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Keep cutting and fitting more lengths in the same way.

Step 19: Cut around obstacles

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Make cuts in the fabric with a long pair of scissors so you can go around upright members or any other obstacles.

Step 20: Gradually tack around it

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Then gradually tack the quilt up to the rafters all around the obstacle.

Step 21: Cut round more obstacles

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Cut the quilt to fit around any pipes or protrusions.

Be really careful to get a good seal here: it's a weak point in the process.

Step 22: Keep adding lengths till you get to the eaves

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Now you need to decide how you are going to handle the eaves.

The instructions tell you to fasten the quilt to the wallplate. The design of my roof made this virtually impossible. Instead I made little trays, nailed the quilt to them, and slid them into the eaves.

You'll have to adapt to the conditions in your loft. Just make sure:

i) that the insulation goes right over the outside wall

ii) that you leave an airspace between the roof felt and the quilt - otherwise you'll get condensation

Step 23: Keep going till you've covered the whole roof

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Here's a pic supplied by the manufacturers. Mmm - how lovely. The lucky owner of this roof space hasn't got single joint to make.

I hope your loft is the same. Mine wasn't. Grrrrr.

I had loads of tricksy truss members to work round.

Never mind: start at one end and keep going till you get to the other. There's no rush. After all, you've got until next winter....

Step 24: Now cover any end walls

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I used a thinner and less expensive quilt for these, as I live in a town house and I just wanted to stop my neighbours benefiting from my heat...

If your gables are external, it probably makes sense to carry on with the same quilt you've used for the rest of the roof.

Step 25: Joints between roof and walls

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Seal 'em up as usual with foil tape.

Remember - we're trying to make our loft into one huge airtight plastic bag.

Step 26: Tidy up any trailing ends

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Tape up all these overlaps with a good slug of tape.

Step 27: Now tape over all the joints

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Use plenty. We are trying to create an airtight envelope.

If you find big gaps, cover them over with a small piece of quilt and tape over.

(Oh yes. Tape over all the joints, he says. How easy that sounds. In fact it's a bit like Shaeffer's famous stage instruction in The Royal Hunt of The Sun: They cross the Andes. Easy to say...)

Step 28: And you're done

Picture of And you're done
I shan't know the full effect until next winter. But we felt an immediate benefit; the house was warmer and cooled down much more slowly from the warmth of the day, reducing the need for heating.

I was able to turn off the central heating in mid-April - whereas in the past, it's been on well into May (though that could just be the nice spring we've had).

The other thing I did was go mad on draught-proofing, surrounding all the external doors with door seals, putting a rubber weather seal under the door of the integral garage and so forth. Well worth the money and time.

Step 29: Wait for it to snow

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Yes - you DO want it to snow.

Because then you can go outside and look at all your neighbours' roofs (rooves if you prefer) and see the snow melting on them. While on yours the snow stays there unmelted.

This is a sure sign that no heat is escaping from your roof. Hooray!

One planet saved.

Now - how about a rainwater capture system?

Stay warm!

Step 30: Footnote on R values and radiant barriers

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These pics are from the two data sheets on SF19 and SF40 quilt. The crucial point is to distinguish between Conventional R Value  and Comparative Energy Saving Equivalent R Value. As you can see, Conventional R Values do not make allowance for the radiant barrier.

So any question of doubling depth and doubling R value is not relevant. The question - if there is one - is whether increasing the depth of the quilt increases the Comparative Energy Saving Equivalent R Value, and the two data sheets explain the difference between SF19 (19 layers) and SF40 (36 layers).

Essentially, the latter is 50% more effective than the former. Hope this helps.

Note that as explained in earlier steps, I have added quilt to an existing 120mm layer of fibreglass. So I now have 120mm fibreglass (R= about 6), a layer of chipboard (R= about 1), and the SF40 (R= about 2).

But taking into account its radiant properties, the SF40 has an equivalent R value of 9.6.

For more explanation see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_%28insulation%29 (especially 4.3: The limitations of R-values in evaluating radiant barriers).

Also http://www.theyellowhouse.org.uk/themes/insula.html for a chart of R values of various materials.
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Ohnanka1 year ago
I wanted to insulate the roof in my attic as it has been floored and adding further insulation to the ceiling of the top floor would be tricky.
However, it seems like my roof has no felt under the tiles! Do you think I am going to have to replace my whole roof before insulating?!
LDW (author)  Ohnanka1 year ago
> I wanted to insulate the roof in my attic as it has been floored and adding
> further insulation to the ceiling of the top floor would be tricky.

Exactly my own situation.

> However, it seems like my roof has no felt under the tiles! Do you think I am
> going to have to replace my whole roof before insulating?!

Well, I'm no expert, and I don't know what your local conditions are. Quite a lot of older properties have no felt, just as yours does. They've been OK for years, so it can't be such a big problem.

If I were in your shoes I'd want felt under my tiles, but you don't really need to do this until you reroof. In some conditions it is possible, I believe, to lift off the tiles in sections, felt, and then replace.

So I don't think you should replace the roof just to put in felt; if and when the roof needs re-doing, then put felt in at that point.

Meantime, I can't see any reason why you shouldn't put in quilting below the rafters as I have done, leaving the unfelted roof in place. But you ought to consult an expert.

Hope that helps a bit.
LDW (author)  LDW1 year ago
PS - Why don't you contact Superfoil www.superfoil.co.uk and ask them? If anyone knows, they should.
casperboost3 years ago
This is a great idea, especially with our energy conscious society now. Just to clarify though, this shouldn't be done on the roof of ATTIC though with the blown (or bat) insulation on the floor, right? Only for a LOFT? I am a air conditioning repair man, and doing this in an attic seems like a super bad idea.
LDW (author)  casperboost3 years ago
Attic = loft = attic. Same thing.

> doing this in an attic seems like a super bad idea

Presumably because you're locked into the COLD ATTIC principle. Like so many repair men. And you've probably got some cockeyed ideas about condensation.

Go back to square one. The idea is to stop heat going out of the roof, da? So nothing that does that is bad, nyet?

Read up on the WARM ATTIC alternative. Keep the heat in the house. Yes, insulate the floor of the loft/attic. But also stop the heat leaving the attic for the sky by insulating the roof - especially, as in my case, where the loft/attic is used for storage. Plus conventional insulation does nothing whatever about radiant heat, so you're saving there too.

Also benefit from cooler summers. Actually, it's all here if you read it.

kwazai3 years ago
you could add a perferoated pipe at the ridge to collect solar heat in the winter- I've seen pool heaters use this. One of the sites even had the calcs to determine if it was adequate to heat the swimming pool. The offgassing of the underside of the roof probably would not be good to breathe so a water based heat transfer would be needed to keep it breathable hot air if wanted.
No heat escape from your roof up here in northern Canada can be an extremely bad thing... I have an extremely well insulated roof that requires shoveling every winter - to explain: My house was an old, log, summer cabin that was winterized and now has another insulated, tin roof over top of the original. You would think that a tin roof would be throwing the snow off on it's own, but no such luck. There is absolutely no heat escape so the snow just piles up. Come mid winter my doors start closing a little less square and things start to creak a lot more than usual. Not to be a pessimist though. Still a great instructable :)
Ever consider using some of that "anti-ice-dam" wire, possibly across the whole of your roof? Tin should be especially good at picking up the heat from the wires and warming enough under the snow to cause a liquid layer to form immediately above the roof, facilitating an avalanche.
LDW (author)  No_Where_Fast6 years ago
That's good - the snow acts as another insulating layer... :-)
_soapy_ LDW6 years ago
If the weight of the snow didn't crush the house, then yes, it would be great! As it is, I'm sure he doesn't want a warm coffin.
LDW (author)  _soapy_6 years ago
:-)
rattle094 years ago
I do not recommend anyone do this to a roof covered with asphalt shingles. There must be an airspace between the underside of the roof sheathing that is clear to the ridge of the roof. At which, there must be some type of ridge vent. Without these the summer sun and heat will literally bake your roof and with in a short couple years the shingles will curl up and be ruined. Your shingle warranty will also be void.
tcup rattle094 years ago
Ah, good tip. How then, does one safely insulate their roof? I have a ridge vent at the peak of my roof. My roof developes huge icecicles during the winter.
Mike44 tcup4 years ago
Yeah, as rattle09 said, you probably don't have continuous airflow from your soffit up to your ridge vent. Look up pictures for attic venting - there's some on the Pink Panther insulation site: http://insulation.owenscorning.com/homeowners/

You may have a situation something like this with no air flow: http://www.nylumber.com/images/ice2.JPG

What you want to do is add those styrofoam spacers (raft-r-mate polystyrene attic rafter vents): http://roofing.owenscorning.com/homeowner/accessories/ventilation/raftrmate.aspx
tcup Mike444 years ago
Thanks guys for your advice. The only insulation in my attic is on the floor. I never heard of rafter vents. I'll have to look into them. I'll be doing that job myself so I will have to buy everything peacemeal as I can afford it. Meanwhile I'll be adding calcium chloride to the areas of my roof, that I can reach. I saw something that says to fill knee high panty hose with calcium chloride then lay them on the edge of your roof, that will prevent ice from forming. This will be interesting, I hate hights.
One thing you can do with the panty-hose is to tie a long rope to one end, and just throw them up onto your roof while letting the rope dangle to the ground. This way, you can retrieve and re-throw the package until you get the position right, and also pull it down to refill it or put away in spring. Voila! No roof-climbing required.
Last winter, I tried the calcium chloride in the knee high panty hose thing. It worked. Unfortunately, my house had the look of a bordello with all those panty hose all along the roof edge.lol. Then after winter was over, there were black stockings all over the yard, somewhat embarrassing. But the main thing is that the method worked, I had some icicles but not as much as previous.

You can also get wiring kits that have you tack a warming wire in an up-and-down curving pattern on the overhanging portion of your roof. You can then plug this wire when you notice ice starting to form, and melt tracks through the ice dam to allow the accumulating water that can back-up under your shingles and into your attic to flow off the roof. It's a longer-term fix, because you can just leave it up year-round and use it as necessary.
rattle09 tcup4 years ago
There is a styrofoam product made that is designed to fit between the rafters. Its concave shape allows an area of ventilation from the lower roof edge to the ridge vent. You would install these prior to the process that is described here in this instructable. This will allow the heat to escape from below the roofing therefore helping keep it cooler.
LDW (author)  tcup4 years ago
Well I don't have rattle09's knowledge of asphalt shingles, but AFAIK you should be safe if you fix the quilt to the underside of the rafters - in which case there will be a gap the same depth as the rafters between the roofing material and the quilt.

Best check with the manufacturers. Someone here has recommended:

www.eshield.net

and they look OK to me.
LDW (author)  rattle094 years ago
There must ALWAYS be an airspace between the quilt and the roofing material. That's why it's fixed to the underside of the rafters - although it can be used in certain new builds immediately below the roofing material - see www.ecofoil.com/Applications/Roof-Insulation.
surfrescue5 years ago
I just had this done in teh USA covered a 2500 square foot house took about 3000 square foot of material. (i have a single story downstairs beddroom that added a lot of loft area hence the large amount of material.

I used Esheild, and they Garentie a 25% savings in both your electic and gas bills ove they year i ended up paying 4300 dollars USA but we do get a 1500 Dollar tax rebate for doing it. so the cost looks like 2800 Dollars including installation. they also wrapped my hot water tank with the stuff to which is supposed to help reduce heat loss from the tank in the same way

my energy bill comes in at around $3200 a year (yes you brits be darned glad you dont have to pay for AC !! im from britain originally and AC running costs are crippiling) so my return on investment is $800 a year so total cost of the project paying for itself is 3 and a half years in theory... and thats without indexing inflation of energy prices.

time will tell if the energy saving is 25% the company also gave me energy saving bulbs etc, but i already had them throught the house and also have a full programable thermast that i have set to VERY conservative settings
LDW (author)  surfrescue5 years ago
PS:

I meant to say, the reason you will save on aircon - we hope - is that i n summer, up to 93% of heat gain is radiant. No amount of fibreglass or lambswool or any other kind of insulation will help with that. But the quilt is a radiant heat barrier.

Stay frosty!

Parabola949 LDW4 years ago
Ahh thank you. That was the response I was looking for. I live in Texas.... you know, where it stays +100 F for more than a month straight. I Just bought my first house, and of course, my first thought is... insulate. Especially considering the house was built in '73. First thing I did was go up to the attic (loft if you will)... yipes. Nothing roofside of course, just bare wood | shingles on other side. Bottom covered in wool / fiberglass, and spotty at that. I knew right away it wasn't going to do. In fact... one day it was 72 outside, 76 inside. Obviously I also have an AC problem...
But still, it heats up within half an hour of the sun coming up. This old house obviously needs an insulation make over.

In fact, one day (after leaving the AC off all night, allowing it to thaw from freezing up), we kicked on the AC just before sunrise... still got to 90 F inside....

I have a lot of work to do.. just need to get through christmas first (5 kids = no extra cash)

Thank you so much for this instructable. I will definitely give it a go
I live in Oklahoma and I feel your pain! When our HVAC crapped out, we replaced it with a geothemal system. WOW -- it makes a difference. I wouldn't have just said "hey, let's go out and buy this", but when we were looking at the cost of the whole system (heat AND a/c), and the efficiency ratings, we decided to go for it. The initial outlay was pricey, but it's already started to pay for itself.

For places that have such a big temperature swing (110F on a hot day and 20F on a cold day), or for the months of April and October when you have both the heat and AC on in the same 24 hour period, great insulation and smart appliances are pretty much mandatory for survival.

Pay close attention to your windows, too -- they're basically huge holes of inefficiency and waste.
LDW (author)  Parabola9494 years ago
If summer overheating is your problem, you are going to LOVE this.

Check out this:

www.ecofoil.com/EcoFoil-FAQs-Radiant-Barrier-Reflective-Foil-Insulation
5 kids = free insulation installer labor :)
Hah except I got one of those attics that you fall through if you step off the beams...lol
tcup surfrescue4 years ago
Where, in the US, is this available?
LDW (author)  surfrescue5 years ago
Great!

I think you'll find you save on AC too: the quilt should keep your house cooler. It certainly works here in UK on the one day a year when we are too hot!     :-)

Thanks VERY much for posting: let us know how you get on with the bills.
h3idi4 years ago
I love that they warn you of the glare if using outside. Safety first! ;)
Mike444 years ago
This is a great idea, especially with our energy conscious society now. Just to clarify though, this shouldn't be done on the roof of ATTIC though with the blown (or bat) insulation on the floor, right? Only for a LOFT?
LDW (author)  Mike444 years ago
Erm... sorry Mike444 - I don't think I know the difference between an attic and a loft. AFAIK they're the same thing. What did you mean?
mephit LDW4 years ago
I think we've run into a bit of a language issue. I'm guessing that Mike44 is a fellow American and therefore confused by your use of the word loft. In the US, loft can often mean just the upper habitable storey of a building or even just large, open living spaces usually converted from commercial property and often having very high ceilings (i.e., they're "lofty"), whereas the attic is the area just under the roof often used for storage. This means you can actually have an attic over a loft. Confusing, I know. In answer to Mike44's question, though, this is being done to what we here in the States would call an attic. In this case, a floor has been planked in on top of the insulation covering the joists of the attic making it appear to be a more finished space than many Americans are used to seeing in their attics.
LDW (author)  mephit4 years ago
Ah - thank you, mephit. Tricky animal that English language...

You are in the right of it: my attic (we use that word interchangeably) has floorboards in it - as explained in step 5.

The title of my 'ible has been amended accordingly.
mephit LDW4 years ago
As that wit Shaw said, we are "two people separated by a common language." I have found it handy on more than one occasion to be an American with a large number of UK relatives.
Mike44 mephit4 years ago
Ha true true, well, not quite American....I'm Canadian, but us North American's probably use a little bit different lingo than what you use 'across the pond' :)

Attic: mainly an UNLIVABLE space at the top of your house; has roof trusses throughout the support the roof, so you can't really put a 'livable' space up there; insulation along FLOOR of attic keeps building heat inside (http://www.arrow-insulation.com/img/photos/beforeandafter/large/attic_insulation_after_3.jpg)

Loft: a LIVABLE space where the roof trusses are placed more off to the side in such a way to provide a livable space in between; the insulation is placed along the ROOF/WALLS of the loft; thus there may be no true 'attic' space above (http://i37.tinypic.com/ax1da1.jpg)

I guess my question was just getting to the idea that by installing this on the roof of an ATTIC which already has insulation on the floor would kind of be defeating the blown in floor insulation. Then the heat would be trapped within the metal blanket and blown in insulation, leading to problems.

Also, yes, it's absolutely critical to maintain an airspace between the roof proper (like the plywood) and insulation from the soffit at the bottom of the roof up to the space where the ridge vent is:

http://www.inspectapedia.com/BestPractices/Figure2-57s.jpg
http://www.nachi.org/images10/ridge-vent-baffles.jpg
http://education.nachi.org/images/upload/soffit-ridge_vent.jpg
mephit Mike444 years ago
Ah! excuse me for the incorrect assumption, then. I imagine ya'll get tired of being mistaken for us. :D

I'm not a contractor or roofer or insulation specialist or anything, so please excuse me if I say something stupid, but aren't you assuming there's a ridge and soffit vent system? Not every building has them. I know my house doesn't have either. It's got an old-style rotary attic vent, but no soffit vents. My house was built between 1946 and 1949. There are plenty of other buildings around of a similar age that might not have a modern vent setup. Would they still need the airgap between the roof decking and the insulation?
Mike44 mephit4 years ago
Oops, yes, sorry, I should have clarified! :) I'm assuming a more 'recent' house. With an older house like yours though, you probably don't have to be as concerned to get this airflow going because they were built "less airtight" back then when compared to today's houses (vapour barrior, polyseal, acoutiseal, etc. the works nowadays!). There will probably be some natural airflow somewhere there! Oh, and I do believe that those revolving roof vents are (*I think*) about equivalent to the ridge vent. At least that's what I've been told!! Don't quote me though :) Seems logical though. With that being said though, they are much less airtight, so you may experience heat loss through the attic. Do you get any icicles forming on your roof at all?
mephit Mike444 years ago
Don't know yet. I only bought the house in May of this year and I live in the Southeastern US. We're currently having a cold-snap, so I'll keep an eye on it, but I seriously doubt they'll form. My house has nothing but the original inch or so of insulation in the attic floor and no roof insulation of any kind. The heating system seems to mostly be heating the attic and not much the rest of the house. The roommate currently living in the attic room says it gets surprisingly hot up there while our downstairs area is still pretty chilly. I'm wasting dollars and energy I'd rather not waste, so that's one of the reasons I'm interested in this 'ible. Unfortunately, the entire attic space has been thoroughly and very cleanly floored with the inadequate insulation between the ceiling below and the floor above. Factor in the additional fact that more than half of the attic space has been converted into a room (just under the ridgeline, of course!) and it basically means I'd have to gut my attic to re-insulate it. Whee......
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