Instructables

The Kinetic Slingshotgun (KIC1 Entry)

Picture of The Kinetic Slingshotgun (KIC1 Entry)
Greetings fellow iblers!

What I have today is something that I have been hard at work on for the past week and a half: the Kinetic Slingshotgun.  Based on Oblivitus' 38F23 concept (seriously man, can you explain your naming process to me?), this gun is capable of launching whatever you can fit in the loading tray at a pretty good velocity.  Now, while I will hand over credit to Oblivitus for the "box-firing" concept, this particular gun has a couple other impressive innovations that I would like to point out.

First and most important of all, it includes a near-perfect version of my "rail-guided pump", which has been seen before on the K-4.  Now, what makes this pump such a big deal, is the fact that the guiding system requires very little space and thus will not interfere with other, more important mechanisms in a gun.  Though not completely necessary for this particular gun to function, I feel that it will play a big part in future pump-actions that will require more complex mechanisms to function.

The second thing I want to point out is the trigger mechanism.  While the directional energy transfers int the sliding trigger may be cool, what is even cooler is the fact that part of the trigger mechanism is actually built into the "box" itself.  This doesn't mean that you pull back the box and the trigger catches it, it means that there is actually a moving part in the box that allows the trigger to function.  There is a pin in the back of the box that, when pulled back, interacts with a ramp (another directional energy transfer), pushing it up, and thus blocking the box from moving forward.  The trigger is, in essence, a hammer that pushes down is pin and sends the box (and ammo) flying on its way.  I feel that this is a good example of how triggers can be more than just a connector that blocks the barrel, and it could play a role in future rail system rifles.

Oh yeah, and there aren't any broken pieces used in this gun.

Yet, despite the cool looks, innovative functions, and hours I spent on it, this gun is not without flaws:

-Because of the nature of the concept, it was very hard to design a mechanism that would lock loaded ammo in place, preventing it from falling out the barrel.  You have to be very careful when carrying around this gun with ammo in the tray not to tip it.

-Due to the weight required to make a solid, structurally sound rail, there is an annoying amount of friction acting between the rail and the box, reducing efficiency.

-Finally, because of my inability to plan ahead, the pin in the box is pushed up instead of down, causing most of the pressure to be concentrated on the weaker part of the box.  Simply rearranging the ramp and the trigger would solve this, but that would just be a pain in the butt, so I might get around to it, or might not xD.

So, as you might have guessed, this is my entry for TD and Oblivitus' "K'nex Innovators' Contest: Round One".  Despite its flaws, I am happy to say that I am very proud of the gun, and I think that will be a crucial building block for future pump actions.


dozer7891 year ago
Cool gun! 4*
I like the pump idea!
Kinetic (author)  PotatoCoffee1 year ago
Thanks! I hope to use it in a repeating sling rifle in the near future...if I can manage to find the time.
Okay, I'll an eye out for it!
mulletman62 years ago
Just watched the video and i still maintain that you should post this as i'd love to build it :)
Kinetic (author)  mulletman62 years ago
Well, in that case I might. I have a lot to do over the next few days though and I'll have to post it before the next contest starts.
Awesome dude, thank you. I will probably be the first to build it if you do end up posting it :)
Sharir17012 years ago
looks awesome. good job man. you're gonna be the winner. anyway, i decided to not make this, as i really don't like shotguns, and it just seamed as something too unuseful for me to spend time on it. too simple, but too big. if i'd build something like this, i'd have to take my zkar and probably my tdac apart... not for this kind of thing i won't.
Kinetic (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
Thanks man.

Yeah, this was not by any means a fun gun to build, and I definitely put more time into it than I should have lol. But, seeing that I didn't have anything important built at the moment, I decided it wouldn't hurt to give it my best shot.
seems legit. still working on the K-4? anyway, i just remembered, i tried your concept with the rotating pins that align with a magazine, but i found it would be too hard to build period, if at all possible, and i say that because i found a lot of problems with space for where the rams go that interferes with the other mechs. anyway, even if it's possible, it would be too big, too weak, too long to load and not war worthy. i think there are better ways to make a semi auto. don't know about a full auto, but definitely semi auto. anyway, i had an idea that might be useful. instead of a turret like turning body with rams on it, have a removable horizontal side magazine that you insert into the back of the gun after cocking all the pins on it, and much like your idea, it aligns with the actual vertical magazine and shoots. the idea is to have some revolving mechanism below or above it to load the next ram when the current one has been shot. it may be useful, as i said, but i'm invested into something else at the moment. btw, check out my S2 video. i'll be posting instructions for it in a day or two, so you can look at it deeply then. anyway, good luck with the contest and stuff.
Kinetic (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
No, the K-4 is only a skeleton now, but I want to go back on it sometime with a v.2.

Ok, so the ram magazine will fit into the side of the gun and kind of slide through the body, setting off the pins? I like the idea, and I think it would be better due to the problems you stated above. I would love to work on that with you sometime when we both are free.

And I have seen the S2 already, and it looks amazing. If only we could figure out removable mags for it, I think it would be a good runner up to a TR in a war.

Also, It is ok if I work on the closed barrel sling right? I think I will be able to do it with my K-3 mechanism, but just wanted to make sure it was alright with you.
ok. did you ever get it to actually work?

yes ! exactly !!! i thought i wasn't explaining it well enough and i would have to draw something and show you. anyway, yeah that sounds great. i think i'll be able to do it in about 4-5 days. my sister's wedding is at july 5th, and my family is doing a series of events before and after that, so i won't be able to build between (roughly) the 4th and the 10th. i will go on the site, but i will be away from my knex (hotel).

i think i have an idea how to do that, but i'll try that some other time. anyway, thanks a lot ! that's a big compliment. (i'm not objective so this counts a lot less, but) i think it is better than a tr in war. it's WAY smaller, i'm pretty sure it's stronger if not about the same, neither have a removable bullet supply (turret/mag), it's a little less accurate, but so what, and they both have roughly the same ROF.
Kinetic (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
Well, every mechanism worked the way it should have, but with forces acting upon it that I hadn't predicted. As I think I talked about with you before, the amount of force acting on the trigger was astronomical, and therefore limited the amount of bands that could be put on the bow, and thus range was pretty pathetic. Also, the force required to activate the loading mechanism was also a pretty good amount, and that further limited the overall band capacity of the gun. But, I would like to make a V.2 using a layout similar to the one seen in my slingshotgun, as the barrel so happens to fit the K-4 ammo perfectly.

Yeah, I am gonna be tied up for a while too, so just let me know when you are free and we will figure something out.

And yeah, I really love the S2. The only areas where I think the tr one ups it is the fact that it shoots oodammo, and the fact that it has a stronger ram guide, and this has a higher band capacity. Don't get me wrong, if you can put a removable mag on that, I think I would take it over the tr any day.

Last but not least, the K-3 is basically the mechanism that I showed you on the 3252 page, just with a few more mechs on there that allow it to pull back and fire a hammer repeatedly. I'll post a forum so people can get their own ideas on it. And I will definitely hit you up if I need any help with anything.
ok good luck with that. btw, "happens to fit the ammo" lol.

ok, so i think i'll be free immediately, because my project isn't going so well. i'll tell you what i've been doing. i've been trying to make a quad pseudo semi auto bolt action smg. what the f*ck does that mean you ask? good question. it means to have 4 barrels, 4 pins and 4 mags aligned horizontally, much like oblivitus' Z3 with one extra, and have the whole thing work in a bolt action setup, with an alternating trigger mech to, well, alternate between the 4 mechs. it all works both in theory and in practice, and it gets a good 35 feet with one band per pin, while it still is very easy to pull the bolt and use it, but the problem is that the trigger blocks keep jamming for no good reason, and believe me i've tried everything. this wouldn't normally be a problem, but they are kind of in the middle of the gun (it's about a square, a really big one), so they're impossible to reach without some kind of thin screwdriver. anyway, i'll put that aside for now until i find out a solution. i have confidence in it though that it will be the best semi auto on the site. i think i'll try to start fresh sometime, because i have an idea for a better setup, just that i lack the patience to do it now, and i'm eager about my other semi/full auto concept. if you want to start working on it ASAP, give me a GO, and i'll tell you what i think we should do. in the meantime, read on young grasshoppa. sorry i had to say that, it was implied.

i'll give the tr oodammo and band capacity, although i think the S2 is still better in terms of band capacity because it transfers the energy from less bands in a more correct way to the bullet, thus creating the same amount of strength for a much easier pull. and about pin guide, sure it has a better pin guide, because it has a stock to attach it to at the back. if you want a better pin guide, just give it a stock. i'll try to work on both a stock for a pin guide and a removable mag for it.

ok great.
Kinetic (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
Hey man sorry for late replies...been really busy lately.

I haven't begun working on it yet, but I will as soon as I get home from work today (at 4pm eastern time). I am also going to start working on the closed-barrel sling, incorporating the K-3 mech (which I will post in the next couple of days) in an effort to get rid of some of the problems you encountered. If I could see what you have so far, that would be great, so I can develop some ideas while I am working in these other things. I think it will be one of the best semi-autos too, but I also feel that there is going to be that one person of group of people that will complain that it isn't true semi auto haha. Whatever, haters gonna hate lol.

So your saying that the S2 is more efficient? Yeah I believe that. Efficiency is the most important quality in any gun, I believe, so two thumbs up on that. So yeah, if efficiency isn't a problem, then I would say forget a stock, and just focus on getting a removable mag on there. Can't wait to see what you do with it.
it's ok lol.

do you mean you will work on my concept? anyway, good lick with both, though i'd like to keep updated. i'll pm you later... great, can't wait to see the K-3. i haven't actually started on it... i was being a bit lazy lol. yes, sure, but according to that logic, if mine isn't a semi auto neither is the Z3, and as far as i know, nobody complained about that... anyway, yeah, i know what you mean. and true, haters gonna hate.

i agree, efficiency is the most important quality of a gun. that's why i almost always try to get the best efficiency. that's why my supposedly simple and MR. T like SABR was so powerful. anyway, i have gotten something to support the pin better, not a stock, because i don't believe it needs one, but if anyone wants a stock it's simple enough to make from what i have. i'll post a pic on my S2 'ible and notify you. about the mag, i'm trying, but it's hard, since the mag is kinda attached to everything in there. it's kinda what keeps the whole gun together, so i'll have to find a solution to that. i might try making it into white rods instead of blue rods, and that would clear up some space. in the meantime, have you built it? you should, it's so good and so piece efficient.
dude?
oops, i didn't notice that last bit... yeah sure, be my guest. credit on the 'ible if you succeed, but other than that, sure, feel free. btw, i don't think i've seen the K-3. have you posted pictures/a video of it?
oh and one last thing - if you want help or advice about something i had in there, just ask. i'll gladly help.
Oblivitus2 years ago
The spray is kinda cool. You definitely put some time into developing extra stuff beyond the concept; the pump, the loading hole, the trigger. Cool stuff.
Kinetic (author)  Oblivitus2 years ago
Thanks! You wanna know the best part about this gun, though? It literally required no planning (other than what I was able to picture in my head). I just started by building the box, followed by a rail that would fit it, and everything just fell into place from there. No designs, and very little trial and error. It was a interesting process.
Hmm, yeah, I can imagine that. It is all based on the box really.
This is an awesome build. And its really thick!
Kinetic (author)  Neon__Knight2 years ago
Yeah, unfortunately it did have to be thick at some sections, and that hurts efficiency because of the weight that causes, but there's really no way around that, so whatever. And thanks for your appreciation!
Oblivitus2 years ago
Yes, I can explain my naming process to you, lol. The names and numbers correspond to the section, the design and picture number in my "Knex Concepts" instructable. Technically it's just plain concept F23. 38 just refers to the picture number on the instructable.
mulletman62 years ago
Looks awesome - are you going to be posting instructions? BTW - does anyone know if KnexInnovation has shut down as i wanna build the ZKAR again, but can't get on the website
Kinetic (author)  mulletman62 years ago
Should I post instructions? The gun as a whole isn't too amazing, but some of the concepts used in it are pretty cool. I guess I will if people want me to.

And pffft...who needs the zkar?
you should post some better pics of the trigger and the pump, but other than that, the gun as a whole isn't too promising, like you said (the concept, not your gun in particular).

and wow thanks that's a big statement. i'm glad to be of service and replace the zkar. lol i'll never actually replace it though because mine's more closely built and less open to mods, while the zkar is very simple and very open to mods, as you will find many on this site. anyway, thanks !
Nooo, post the gun - i wanna build it :0.

Sharir - if you post instructions for your gun, then i'd be happy to build that as well.
ok, i'll be posting them probably today or tomorrow, so... and thanks, btw.
Okie pokie :)
ok it's posted already. check it out.
I personally think you should post it as i really like your other guns, so would love to build this one as well. As for the ZKAR, i just like that gun :P
yeah, me too, but i ensure you that mine is better for war and IMO more fun to play with. it beats the zkar, really.
TBH, i'm a bit too old for the whole knex wars. I just like building guns in my spare time and shooting things around the house :)
Yes I think so I can't go there either
Damn. Anyone got any internal pictures of the ZKAR?
and btw, if you still want to build the zkar, i bet you could be able to build it off the racker's mods 'ible. it has some really good mods too.
Yeah i do still want to build it. I've got most of it built, i'm just having problems with the middle layer at the front (the parts that the "bolt" and "bullets" move on)
Yeah, I can't get on the site either.
Johnhall442 years ago
cool =D
TheRacker2 years ago
Me gusta! That is a great idea. First thing that came to my mind to shoot was whoppers, lol. Could a paintball potentially fit in there?
Kinetic (author)  TheRacker2 years ago
Hmmm...that might work...

But you wanna know something better? The barrel houses the ammo I used in the K-4 perfectly. K-4 v.2 anybody?
Nah post the K-4 separately please. And did you destroy the K-4 to make this gun?
lol
didexo2 years ago
Thats pretty thick wow nice job man!
didexo didexo2 years ago
No haha I mean its really thick because its yellow rod lengh
Kinetic (author)  didexo2 years ago
Thick...is that "sick" with a lisp? Lol.
Kinetic (author)  didexo2 years ago
Thick...is that "sick" with a lisp? Lol.
Nice. Whats the range? And see you next round :D
Kinetic (author)  Senior Waffleman2 years ago
It depends on the ammo...

No more than 25 ft with a 5 white rod load, but you make that 4 white rods, and you're hitting 40 feet. Also, individual gray connectors fly pretty far.

And hell yeah man, can't wait to see what the next one is.
I freaking love this. I actually was trying to work on a design just like this, but it functioned terribly. Please post if you can. Awesome work man. : )
Kinetic (author)  Raz1r Knex Bull3t2 years ago
Yeah...can't say mine functions too great either, but it is still pretty cool. Glad you like it, and if I can find the time, I will post it.
Inventor X2 years ago
VIDEO !!!! :DDDD
Kinetic (author)  Inventor X2 years ago
I'll get one up shortly.
Kinetic (author)  Inventor X2 years ago
I'll get one up shortly.
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