Introduction: The Kinno-1: K'nex Semi Automatic Rifle (preview)

Picture of The Kinno-1: K'nex Semi Automatic Rifle (preview)
Greetings fellow 'iblers.

Kinetic and Innovanna here with a revolutionary new gun that we feel confident in deeming the most powerful semi-automatic K'nex gun in existence: the Kinno-1.

The concept was conceived by a builder named Innovanna over a year ago, and only a month ago I discovered his video on Youtube describing his first attempt at the concept.  Intrigued, I contacted him with some ideas of my own, and about two weeks ago we began using Skype to brainstorm and show each other our ideas.  The Kinno-1 utilizes a removable rubber band magazine that releases each band individually to fling bullets provided by a removable bullet magazine.  The result is an extremely powerful semi automatic sling gun.

Now, the way we approached this, Innovanna and I  began with the same overall layout, but then branched off in our own directions in an effort to experience as many possibilities as we could.  Now that we each have a working gun, each with its own strengths and weaknesses, we would like to give you, the community, a chance to evaluate the strengths of each version so that we can create a final version, using the best of both.

We currently have videos if each gun, but they provide a limited view if their capabilities.  We will provide more in-depth videos very soon so that you can make proper evaluations.  We will also get more pictures up as soon as possible (Innovanna is out adventuring in the wilderness at the moment, and is unable to send me up-to-date pictures of his at this time).

So, without further hesitation, we present to you the Kinno-1

Kinetic's Demo

Innovanna's Demo


innovanna (author)2012-08-27

instructions for this gun:

CODawesome (author)2012-09-14

Wow that's a tall gun! Also, if u don't mind, check out my semi auto vector and PLZ give me feedback (it is you're choice)

PotatoCoffee (author)2012-09-14

Loved your video!

Sharir1701 (author)2012-08-22

hey man, i finally got round to taking the pics for my S3, so i can take it apart now and start working on my concept. to simplify what i said before, it's your gun, just instead of the rubber bands slinging bullets, they push forward a pin that cocks itself automatically after each shot by a weak rubber band pulling it backward. then on the front there is an auto chambering mech that will probably be similar to the one on my TDAC. so basically, semi automatic bolt action pin gun. and it will use a mod i made to your power, if that's not obvious. anyway, what i'm getting at is that i have built you version, but couldn't quite figure out the furthest back part of the trigger, the one that connects between the actual trigger and the cog with the blue pins. i tried a few things that didn't work and gave up pretty quickly. instead, i made what i was talking to you about. i made a small ratchet directly on the mag that the trigger only operates by pushing. so you don't have to release anything when you insert it into the gun, and you have direct contact between the ratchet and the band cog, giving you the ability to put more bands on. i haven't tested how many total you can put on, but it works just fine with 8 bands, and i think i can put more on. so yeah, that's a major leap. while innovanna could get 8 on his, his is very roughly built, while your's is clean and smooth and nice, so the way i have it, your's is better now since it matches (possibly passes) the band capacity and looks a lot better. also, i understand you're not going to post your's, correct? if so, i have two questions: first, would you like me to post it instead? second, could you just show me a picture of that part in between the trigger and blue clip cog?

P.S. i saw it in the pics and thought it was a moderate-normal sized pistol. then i built it. i was wrong. lol it's so much bigger than it looks in the pics. it's practically rifle sized, but looks in the pics like a pistol.

Kinetic (author)Sharir17012012-08-27

That's great to hear, but how do you plan on removing the firing band (that's what I'll call it, the one that flings the pin forward) from the pin after it has been fired? I imagine a simple release mech on the pin itself to accomplish this, but that would take up space and more importantly, it would add an irregular weight to the pin. Another option would be to use a ramp to redirect the firing band after a certain point, so that the weaker band could then pull it back. A semi auto bolt action pin gun...sounds pretty freakin awesome.

The internal ratchet mech is pretty complex, I wouldn't have expected anyone to figure it out with only externals. It would do more justice to just show you a picture of it, so I'll get one up asap. And incorporating the ratchet on the mag was something that I considered, but I felt that it would take up too much space, and then you have the whole "the entire mech is in the mag" argument to deal with. Innovanna and I had a short conversation over my vacation, and we figured out a major flaw in my mag (so extremely stupid on my part) that limits band capacity. I am going to fix it as soon as I am done responding to all these comments, and we'll see what happens from there. But it should give me a capacity similar to what you and Innovanna are seeing.

In my honest opinion, I think it would to the concept better if we posted each version individually (or in my gun's case, post your version in my instructable, seeing that very little of the gun is actually different) so that people can see the possibilities that the concept has to offer. And yeah, it really does look like an over-sized pistol, doesn't it? I think that the size is just perfect for a rifle.

P.S. Not a single "well..." in that whole conversation!

Sharir1701 (author)Kinetic2012-08-28

that's very simple. the back of the ram is a 3-way connector (pointing up, held that way somehow, pretty simple to figure it out, that's no what i'm worried about anyway), so that the band catches on it, and at the end, the band just goes kinda up, like in your's, and stays on the gun, but it doesn't bother the pin, like your's. it does, right (sound great, the specs)? when i thought of adding the auto chambering mech i was like ok... that would be awesomely complex to build and would produce an amazing fun gun to play around with. the thing i'm worried about is that the bands won't be strong enough to fire the bullets any decent range. if you think about it, it would have a lot of things slowing it down- a heavy pin (relatively to the rubber band itself, the pin is very heavy), a barrel (=friction), a heavy bullet, and a bullet stop pulled by a rubber band that is holding the bullet from moving. a small band has to move all that at a very high speed to get any range, and the band also has quite a short distance to do so. i might have to drop the chambering mech, and just make it with my SSM or something.

Sharir1701 (author)Sharir17012012-08-28

god i always forget to answer the rest of the comment...

first, i would have never figured that out, true. about putting it in the mag, that's not what i meant. i meant slimming down the mech in general, and then having the ability to put it on the mag. my mechanism works awesomely, and all i've added on the mag is 1 (heavily) modified 3-way connector. it's true that most of the mech is in the mag, but the difference is that it is still small (mine, anyway), and it needs the bullet magazine, which i think is just stupid to incorporate with the band magazine because it would make it very hard to load both, taking way more time, as well as it would be hard to put it into the gun, taking even more time. also, the thing about this gun that differs it from any other semi auto slingshot type gun is the mech being small and in a removable magazine. so who cares if you get the trigger ratchet on there too? my magazine is sooo awesome. i just load bands very easily, and it keeps from turning by itself (because of the ratchet, obviously), and then you just put it right into the gun. no pulling back the mag release (it's also easier to put it in than your's, because i changed the tan clips to 1 slots to it can go in easier because of the round edges), and no releasing anything else once it's in. just put it right in very smoothly. i'll make a video sometime.

my trigger mech (on the gun) is just a sliding trigger pushing a few things that eventually just push the ratchet part of the magazine, releasing one shot. the magazine can also release one shot on it's own, out of the gun, by doing the same simple pushing that the trigger does with you finger.

lol no "wells".

Kinetic (author)Sharir17012012-08-28

Yeah, the idea sounds cool, but in practice I think it will be much harder to accomplish because of all the factors weighing against it (mostly friction). And I would love to see what you did with mine just so I can get a better understanding of what your exact layout looks like. Pics would be greatly appreciated! And yeah, I think that we have given up the whole "two mags in one" idea.

And yeah, I knew what you meant with the trigger mech simply activating the mech on the mag, but I just think that any escapement ratchet would take up too much space, which is why I want to see yours.

And guess what???
I implemented that easy fix I was talking about to my mag and BOOM! Eight shots baby! Maybe more, I'm just concerned with the bands snapping if wound too much. I think that I am going to post mine now that I have doubled its capacity, but first I need to figure out a better bullet mag (the current one is crap, as you may have noticed). I also want to make the ratchet on the band mag auto-releasing, but that isn't really a priority.

Sharir1701 (author)Kinetic2012-08-29

Yeah it might not be possible with a band mag, and I might just have to do it with a stable ratchet... Bummer. I'm glad anyway that you gave that up, it seemed useless to me from the start, and I think I told you before too.

I will make a video and pics in one of the three following days.

I would like to see that, it sounds awesome. The bullet mag is actually pretty good, I mean it fits perfectly, it's very comfortable to cock and undock, it's very small and works well. If you want I can try to implement my magazine from my S3 on here. It won't have so many broken parts like mine, because I'm think of attaching completely differently. I'll let you know if it's good. I think I can make it real good actually. With what you have I'm not sure it's possible to have an auto release... Good luck anyway.

Kinetic (author)Sharir17012012-08-31

The band mag release now locks firmly in the gun, and I have come up with a very impressive bullet mag. Instructions will be out tomorrow-the day before I head off to college! Lol. But I would like to see your mag on it as well. Also, I am looking forward to that video.

Sharir1701 (author)Kinetic2012-09-01

i'll look forward to that, and i think i'm gonna make my video today, as well as another video for another project i have. do you mind if i make a video 'ible for my modded kinno-K? btw, instead of that mag, i'm gonna make a mag for the longer bullets like in my SSM (SABR, M17S, REMPAR), because they would get more range, and they could have a rail on the barrel. i had a convo with innovanna about the accuracy and implementing rails, and i tried it, and found out the same thing he told me you found out. i think it happens because the grey con bullet is too short, and is short enough to move aside into the gaps between rails, with the help of the nature of the slingshot, causing it to want to move to the side, and that's why it loses all it's speed. if you make a longer bullet, that would always be in contact with the rails, it would be much better, much more accurate, and the higher caliber bullet is also better for range and what-not. so i'll see if i can make an internal pusher mag for the bullet type, add it to the gun, add rails, see how well it goes, and if it works i'll make a video. if not, i'll reverse everything and just make a video of my custom mechanism, maybe with my S3 magazine on it.

Kinetic (author)Sharir17012012-08-27

Here's internals of the trigger. These were taken from a second gun I built that was designed to use the alternating fly wheel mech which is now obsolete. The trigger is exactly the same, but the internal layout has been inverted to accommodate two fly wheels and two trigger mechs.

And the pictures uploaded out of order, and it wont let me change it, but I think you'll follow.

Raz1r Knex Bull3t (author)2012-08-24

Lol, in your video you it the coke can and it exploded. Anyways, I would definitely like to see your version posted because it looks cleaner, but kudos to Innovanna for the awesome idea.

Haha yeah that was kind of a double edged sword. I was stoked to be able to put that in the video but it was a pain in the ass to clean up. In the vid I even kind of stop and stare for a was kind of bizarre lol.

Me and Innovanna were talking and we figured out a major flaw (majorly stupid, on my part) that limits he band capacity on my gun. I may just fix it and post my version as well, but I don't want to steal any of Innovanna's thunder.

thanks. his video is way better. but he is kinetic, he can make anything look good with knex. haha. mine just gets more shots, thats all

innovanna (author)2012-08-18

Forget an alternating mech! And modified pieces! Give me 2 more days and i will have the easiest semi auto ever!

Sharir1701 (author)innovanna2012-08-21

i don't know what exactly you meant, but 4 days have past since that statement, and nothing new seems to show...

innovanna (author)Sharir17012012-08-22

Did u not read the comment above that one? And i am literally right now working on a temporary video for the people that have been waiting.i have made some improvemets to the gun. More and more things keep popping up. Just be patient.

Sharir1701 (author)innovanna2012-08-23

i didn't notice, never mind i found it on my own

innovanna (author)2012-08-22

Sorry guys for the late posting. Ive been more busier than i thought. BUT i have made the gun SSOOOOOOOO much easier to load and fire. Look for it by this weekend or earlier next week. Thanks!

Sharir1701 (author)innovanna2012-08-22

what did you change?

innovanna (author)Sharir17012012-08-23

Instead of having two cogs on the mag and in the gun, i was able to strengthen up and be able to just do 1 cog in bothe the mag and gun. Made the bullet mag to where there arent any modified pieces, also in the gun. And took off parts i didnt need. It is really easy to fire and load now to.

innovanna (author)2012-08-22

Heres a temporary update

PotatoCoffee (author)2012-08-19

That's neat!

innovanna (author)2012-08-15

Instructions on the final product should be up by the end of this week! So be checking!

mulletman6 (author)innovanna2012-08-18

Awesome - got lots of spare knex and am ready to build it :)

innovanna (author)mulletman62012-08-18

Great. Its low piece count!

TheFoofinator (author)2012-08-18

Very nice! I haven't been on in a while, but it seems you are all still going strong. This looks great! An improvement might be to combine the 'Powerpack' with the Magazine and slied it down through the top (though it would make it a bit bulky- but that's what you're best at hehe).

Sharir1701 (author)2012-07-29

how many bands can it hold?

Kinetic (author)Sharir17012012-07-29

Mine can hold 4, Innovanna's can hold 8, but I don't know exactly how reliable hhis is, as I haven't built it myself. But when I can contact him I will include it on this slideshow.

Sharir1701 (author)Kinetic2012-07-29

well, that's a small capacity. this kind of thing should be able to hold more. i don't know, maybe stronger trigger. i'll have to see it more in depth before i can say for sure, but you should be able to. anyway, 4 rounds is more suitable for something like my S3... you know, i would have expected at least 8 from you. nvm lol. good luck with the next version

Kinetic (author)Sharir17012012-07-29

Well, the trigger utilizes what is, in fact, the strongest, most effective ratchet system I have seen in any K'nex gun. The magazine's cog (or fly wheel, as we call it) interlocks with a second cog in the gun. This is the cog that the ratchet controls, and because it interlocks with the cog in the mag, the ratchet in turn controls the output of rubber bands. However, any more than 5 #32's will cause the cog in the gun not the trigger mech, to break. This can be fixed, I suppose, but I try to refrain from using glue or anything as often as I can. If you were using #16 bands, you would be able to get 10 shots, but they would just be less powerful. Innovanna solved this problem by using two fly wheels in the mag, and two secondary fly wheels in the gun, alternating rubberbands from each fly wheel and thus reducing the pressure on each individual cog. However this (I am pretty sure, though I haven't built it) has a drawback in that there is little space for the bands to wind in the magazine, and thus can hurt reliability.

Sharir1701 (author)Kinetic2012-07-29

i would say to put the ratchet directly on the mag, so that there's no cog inbetween, and have the actual trigger operate the ratchet. btw, so you have something on the mag to temporarily keep the cog from unwinding until it's put into the gun? does that release automatically or manually?

Kinetic (author)Sharir17012012-07-29

Well we did try that using a normal ratchet, but there was no way to make a ratchet (so far as we knew, until I came up with the new ratchet that is being used in mine now) that was precise enough to operate a cog that had green rods for spokes. Therefore, in an attempt, I had the idea to use a secondary cog (which consists of a green rod with blue clips as the spokes) in an effort to allow us more room to make a workable ratchet. Innovanna managed to do this with a very commonly used ratchet, but I still wasn't having luck so I went ahead and developed a two-section ratchet that directs the energy of the cog (in both points that it contacts the cog) directly into the pivots, rather than at an angle, thus making it virtually unbreakable. Unfortunately, however, the cog is not unbreakable, and that is where I am having problems, as I explained above. But, seeing that this new ratchet is extremely precise and very effective, I may be able to just move it around so that it comes into direct contact with the magazine, as you suggested. I'll give it a try.

As for the band release, it uses a very simple ratchet system that can hold any amount of pressure, and is very easy to disengage (it also directs the energy straight into the pivot). Unfortunately, it does not release automatically (it did with an earlier mag release system I had, but it didn't keep the mag in very tight), so you have to release it manually. I know it would be much cooler if it was automatic, but it really isn't too big of a deal imo.

Thanks for your input, and we will definitely take it into consideration as we finalize the gun.

Sharir1701 (author)Kinetic2012-08-02

btw, when you told me his concept was similar to mine (not the 3252, the other one i talked about on your slingshotgun), how exactly did you figure that? it is completely different. his is a removable rubber band ratchet that doesn't move on the gun, while my idea was to have a moving pin carrier that moves about an inch to the right with each shot, eventually just dropping out of the gun. btw, i was doing a lot of thinking lately on many semi auto concepts i've seen or thought of in the past, and for a while i couldn't remember what was wrong with your KLS (i think?). i remember now, it always shot the bullet up for me. i could never get it to shoot straight, and the magazine also never loaded the bullets in properly, so eventually i ended up putting a kind of barrel on the front to get it to be a bit straight, but since the bullet was bouncing up and down the barrel it lost a lot of strength, and as for the magazine, i just kept a bunch of bullets in my pocket and put three in each time above the trigger thing, and then it was more of a controlled three round burst thing, if you know what i mean. i could shoot supposedly semi automatically, because it was actually me pushing the trigger more each time, or i could just shoot all three at once.

Kinetic (author)Sharir17012012-08-04

Well I think that the concepts are very similar because the overall semi-automatic effect is the same: there is a pre-loaded power source (in your case, the pin mag, in my case the band mag) that is used to directly fire off each bullet. The way that the guns work is very different, but the overall effect is very similar.

As for the KLS, I honestly don't know why people had a "bullet shooting up" problem. It only happened to me a few times, and that was because I hadn't put the bullet in facing the right direction. While the mag did have its flaws, I could always get at least 4 shots out of it without having any problems.

But I see where this is going, and yes, I do feel that the concept in the KLS has a lot of potential, and although it was done quite well (in my opinion) with the KLS v.2, I do feel that we should definitely revisit it sometime in an effort to improve reliability and possible experiment with a type of full auto.

Sharir1701 (author)Kinetic2012-08-04

well, most good semi autos are like that. and btw, i have an awesome idea how to make an awesome semi auto pin gun using this type of rubber band mag, and will try that as soon as i finish making my S3 'ible. oblivitus and i had a little conversation on his 3252 v.8.5 page, and if you want to know about my concept, it's there. oblivitus is also gonna try to continue the 3252, i think using my setup, but i'm not sure, and he's gonna try to get it to shoot yellow rods, i think from a turret.

yeah, i don't know, the KLS was an amazing idea, but it has too many flaws that make it impractical for a war. we have an awesome streak of new semi auto concepts going on here, and i believe we will end up with a few amazing semi auto guns.

i actually wasn't going there, but it does sound good. we should do that sometime. how would you make it a full auto though? i think i have a general idea how to make A full auto. take any mechanism using a rubber band cog, such as this gun, or my idea (obviously try to get it to hold more bands first), and make the trigger mechanism not a ratchet, but just a release for the cog, BUT (and here's the big BUT) have the cog connected to some kind of lever that will push and pull something sitting on a rail, and that thing will be heavy, and that will cause the general effect of a full auto because the cog would be slowed down to an acceptable pace. i hope you know what i mean. someone made a really good gun with this concept a while ago, but the gun was for weak bands, and for bands only. try to look around for it, i will too.

Kinetic (author)Sharir17012012-08-09

Well, since you mentioned it, I am going to have to start each of my paragraphs with "well" lol.

Well, not all semi autos use removable "batteries", as this one does, and as the other one would have to fire shouts provided from a completely separate magazine. I'll check out that conversation right after this, but that sounds interesting.

Well, I wish people had done more with the idea after I posted the KLS (and a couple people did, but they weren't too great), but maybe we can revisit it in an attempt to perfect it? I'm down for a collaboration if you are.

Well, I think that if we could incorporate a ratchet mech in the magazine or a trigger mech similar to the one in your 3252 (not the alternating part, but the continuous rotating trigger part), we could give the trigger control of the mag pusher, we could get maybe a 3-shot burst with every pull. And I had an idea similar to the one you are talking about a while ago, but too many people told me it wouldn't work, so I just said screw it. But my idea was to use low-to-high gear ratios as well as a similar "tension system" as the one you are talking about to give a certain degree of control over the rate that the rubber bands release.

Sharir1701 (author)Kinetic2012-08-09

well, i don't really understand how your statement is related to my semi auto, and i didn't quite understand what you meant.

well, that sounds good, but at the moment i don't think i'll have much time for building. my parents and my gf's parents are out of town for about two weeks now, and she's sleeping over at my place (lol her parents would never let her do that) (let's hope for great things lol), and we're also planning on spending most of the two weeks together anyway, sort of like a vacation. after that, i have about a week until school starts again, and i'll have to finish up some assignments i have for the holidays. so i might have some time in that week. i'll let you know when i know.

well, i still don't see how that would work. your second idea would work, but i deem the cogs unnecessary. the weight thing, if weighing enough, would slow it down as much as we need. it might also create a false recoil feeling, which would be awesome. i think that making the weight thing to slow down our cog is the best chance at a viable full auto we've got at the moment, taking size in thought. your gears idea would just be overdoing it, and it would also take a lot of space that otherwise wouldn't be necessary.

well, first, let's focus on making the best cog semi auto we can, and then we'll try to make that full auto. i think our plan should be like this: whenever possible, you and/or innovanna should try to work on this, on the things we talked about, and i will try to make that idea i have for a pin semi auto. after we have those two guns maxed out, we see which is best, and the other one builds it. then, we go forward with the attempt at a full auto. sound good? i hope we can make this work. good luck to us both.

P.S. well, well, well, well, well, well.

Sharir1701 (author)Sharir17012012-08-04

CLICK. btw, did you notice how many of our comments in this discussion start with a "well,"... lol

Sharir1701 (author)Kinetic2012-07-30

once again, i couldn't know, but it sounds to me like if you can make that ratchet on the gun, you can make it on the mag as well, maybe making it a bit bigger, but i couldn't know. anyway, gl.

yeah, that's ok, i know exactly what you mean. it kind of compares, i think, to the true trigger vs. cog trigger dilemma in my gun. it would be cooler if it were a true trigger, but it's less reliable and harder to make, but the cog trigger is much better, and i really don't mind it. but i hope it does hold on as disengaged once you manually disengage it (i'm not sure i explained myself, let me know).

the pleasure is mine.

Kinetic (author)2012-08-09

Thanks! Don't forget that Innovanna had the original idea though. He will be posting his finalized version very soon. I might try to improve mine, but I think his is going to be about good as we can make it.

knexsuperbuilderfreak (author)2012-08-05

Haha someone else hade the same idea i did! well mine was way more complex.. but same basic set up this is amazing though.

I have had this idea for a little over a year now. I did one attempt but it never really took off with the community. But thanks man. I appreciate it.

knexfreak95 (author)2012-08-01

i haven't been into the knex scene for like more than a year (still have a shit ton of knex) but its about time someone finally put some time into making a semi auto gun..i think once oddalumps or whatever his name is, made that gun that could go through wood..i think that basically ended the challenge of getting the most power out of knex (unless somone made a better one like i said..its been a while)...and before that all the big power was from that weird turkish guy who breaks perfectly good cd's...which my crappy pistol could do (i liked that cd too)..but finally!..bout damn time someone was able to grow a pair (of brains) and make the semi auto...can't wait to see some upcoming stuff guys..i use skype alot so message me ur name if u want..i might be able to help (ive gotten smarter..just lazier too)

innovanna (author)knexfreak952012-08-01

Thanks for ur appreciation man. Alot of people have put their minds to a semi auto for quite some time now. Kinetics, sharirs, and of course mine and kinetics. All of these are different types. There are many more but those are the big ones right now. But if you have any ideas on a semi auto i would be glad to hear them. Thanks

Sharir1701 (author)knexfreak952012-08-01

check out my S3... ever heard of oblivitus' SA 3252 concept?

also, that gun ooda made is WWAAAAAAAYY outdated. there are much much better guns today. mostly bolt actions; they're the fastest, strongest, most accurate, most comfortable and smallest. check out my S2. it's stronger than the zkar.

innovanna (author)2012-07-30

Would you guys rather have two opposite mags and get more shots? Or one magazine with both bullets and bands and get 6 shots?

Sharir1701 (author)innovanna2012-08-01

i think one mag is more practical, but i love dual mags and multiple mechs, so, i'd say do both. the way your's is in these pictures, there are two mags and two band cogs, right (fly wheels)?

innovanna (author)Sharir17012012-08-01

Yes exactly like that. Kinetic doesnt have it that way. I dont know if he is confused on how i have it. They dont move from side to side, they stay in one place. There is just enough spacing to make it for easier loading. As u saw in the video it works fine. But i like kinetics trigger. It can hold any amount of pressure u put on it. Mine hasnt broke with ten bands so i like mine a little more because it is smaller and simpler.

About This Instructable




Bio: Sometimes it takes a man to push beyond what he thinks is possible before he realizes that possibility is a mere conception of the mind ... More »
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