Many “dead” car batteries are actually perfectly good batteries. They just can no longer provide the hundreds of amps needed to start a car. Many “dead” sealed lead acid batteries are actually un-dead batteries that can no longer reliably provide a couple of hundred watts of power needed to keep a computer running in a power outage.

A couple of years ago I decided to add another small solar panel to the collection I have on my roof. I have a 5 and 10 watt. This new one is a 20 watt. It is dedicated to providing emergency power for lighting, a small fan and other misc. small low voltage devices. For this setup I needed a battery since it would need to be able to provide power 24 hours a day. I decided an un-dead car battery would be perfect since the largest load it would need to power for any extended period of time would be less than one half an amp. There is quite a difference between 200 – 600 amps and a half an amp.

The battery pictured was one I replaced when It would no longer start my car.

Step 1: Charging The Battery

I could have used a linear regulator to charge the battery with the solar panel.  The cost of a linear regulator is typically less than a dollar.  I decided to go with a charge controller instead because they more efficiently use the available power to charge the battery.  You get more run time at night when you use a charge controller. 

There are cheaper charge controllers but after reading about several of them I went with this one.  The 20 watt solar panel is currently (9-24-12) $52.99 plus shipping at Ul-solar.com

<p>Very interesting idea/info! Could be perfect for my solar panels and wind generator.</p><p>At this moment I'm headed to the local dumpster where earlier I saw where someone had left a &quot;dead&quot; battery!</p>
i had a lot of batterys, what i use to charge it it's a normal transformer to 13.9 volt to charge them, i had aprox 5 batteries, i used to test hig power brushless motor or to cut foam with large hotwires of nicrom and use clamps to atacth or release batteries to give more or less temp, and a transformer its more cheap than any solar panel
Cheaper Yes but: <br>1. Solar panels pay for themselves over time if used in an application that replaces or reduces the power you use from the grid. <br>2. In regard to emergency power, solar panels are green, quiet, and last decades. <br>
It takes a loooong time for Solar panels to pay off even for the terminal consumer.. The entire industry is subsidized all across the supply chain so the terminal consumer is paying only a portion of the entire cost. <br> <br>Solar panels aren't particularly green. From the environments prospective, it only matters how much C02 as system produces over its operational lifetime. Solar panels rack up an enormous carbon debt in their manufacture, distribution, installation and maintenance. It takes years for them to pay off that carbon debt even if they work in isolation. <br> <br>However, very few panels actually do work in isolation so you have to figure in the carbon emissions of the grid power that backs the panels up. Worse, just because you aren't drawing power from the grid, doesn't mean that grid operator doesn't have to keep generators spun up just in case you do. So, even though you aren't drawing down power, just the fact that you might cause significant C02 emissions. <br> <br>People have an intuition that an electrical grid works like a water system and think, &quot;Well, if collect rain water that means that I save water from the city supply.&quot; But electricity doesn't work that way. It's a giant circuit that has to constantly balanced between load and source. To buffer high variability in the load, the source must run at excess, usually with fast spin up natural gas generators. The solar panels are causing the generation of C02 and other pollutants constantly, not just when the panels are offline. <br> <br>Neither would I plan on them lasting decades. One good thunderstorm with hail can wipe out solar panel systems across a wide area. Happened here a few years back. <br> <br> By the time you factor in the cost and carbon debt of replacing destroyed installs with the initial carbon debt and the secondary/backup generator carbon debt, it is highly unlikely that solar panels ever save carbon emissions at all. <br>
The carbon footprint is a popular political theme these days. But its time will pass. <br> <br>http://www.sciscoop.com/climate-change-evidence.html <br> <br>&quot;Carbon dioxide accounts for only one in every 4000 molecules in the air; water vapor accounts for one in every 20. Carbon dioxide absorbs only a quarter as much energy from sunlight as water vapor, molecule for molecule; suggesting that water vapor is responsible for the majority of atmospheric heating.&quot; <br> <br> Guess we have to stop using so much water. And seal off the oceans as well. A nice big oil slick should do the trick. I mean a really big one. Got to get rid of that water vapor. <br> And the naturally produced methane: <br>http://www.earthsave.org/globalwarming.htm <br>&quot;Methane is 21 times more powerful a greenhouse gas than CO2.&quot; <br> <br> Here's a question for you: If the carbon in hydrocarbons came from all the dead animals which ate other animals or grass and other vegetation, then the carbon that's sequestered in the oil fields must have come from the plant world. Now, if the coal deposits around the world came from all the dead plant life over time, and knowing that only photosynthesis can capture the carbon from the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, where was all that carbon sequestered before it got into the atmosphere? And from the dinosaur evidence, there must have been huge amounts of vegetation available on a daily basis to support those huge animals. There must have been a lot more carbon in the atmosphere then than there is today to support that level of plant growth. The carbon that is now sequestered in the coal fields and the oil fields had to get there via the atmosphere. That must have overheated the planet and they all died off every year, year after year. Or it was lush and very green and everything grew at astonishing rates which is most likely the case, even faster that in the jungles of the tropics. They probably died off because they starved to death once the carbon levels dropped in the atmosphere to a point that it could no longer support the level of plant growth necessary. The oceans could absorb enormous amount of CO2 if we would seed it with iron in the right amounts, populate that area with fish, and feed the world. The atmosphere and the oceans are starved for CO2. And its presents in the atmosphere has little or nothing to do with the temperature aside from politics. Just thinking out loud. Don't mean to offend.
You are 100% correct my friend. I worked for Landmark Graphics (at the time a subsidiary of Halliburtion now is absorbed into the main corp) but it makes me laugh when I hear people use the term Fossel Fuels. hahahah See, I had to laugh just saying it. Any geologist (that knows their stuff, and is willing to spill the beans) will tell you that is a lie that was sold to the public in order to create the sense of scarcity. Its almost ludicrous that people think the dead plants and animals under pressure over time turn into oil. hahaha even if they did how did they get miles below the surface in large pockets. Its rather funny how those pockets keep on refilling too. But people will believe anything they see on TV. Just call it a documentary and you can tell them the titanic is at the bottom of the ocean. (oh wait that takes about 50 million to pay a hollywood director to create the scenes for you THEN you can tell everyone its really down there because you can show it on TV) right. <br> <br>But yes you are correct about the Carbon BS scam.
<p>So how did the hydrocarbons get there? I am interested to hear an alternate explanation. Did God (or aliens) just leave this stuff behind for us to find over time? Or was it formed from the natural elements and compounds that formed the earth? Can you explain the chemical reaction that might take passive substances and convert them to something with stored energy value? That could be a real money maker if we can patent it Kind of like a perpetual motion machine. You have one those right? Me too!</p>
I'm probably feeding a troll,but... I'm not typing this to try to convince hopeless causes I used to work in production. Just like you can see the strata when a road cuts through rock cut away for a road, Geologists can &quot;<em>see</em>&quot; the strata as the bit makes it's way down through the layers that where laid atop what are now producing formations. Underneath my feet there are several producing formations on the way to the Arbuckle, not to mention brine, and freshwater aquifers. When a field is shut down because it's no longer profitable to produce it the formation does <strong><em>appear </em></strong>to refill. However that occurs after years of sitting idle, and the production is nowhere near what it was previously, and only profitable to produce when the price of oil is very high. The logical explanation is that the fluid migrated from other area of the formation to the fractured zones around the well bores. Only ignorance would depend on that <strong>refilling&nbsp; </strong>to plan our future with.&nbsp; My guess if you, carmstrong2, and northcalgreens are old enough you where in that choir chanting, &quot; the dilution is the solution to pollution&quot; That solution really worked out well for those who depend on the oceans for an unpoisened food source.
I couldn't but think of FFVII when I first heard this. It's the lifeblood of the earth. :-) <br>For me, going green isn't about the environment, it's about green money. I like to live off the land as much as I can and hate paying someone for something I could do myself; I guess that's why I like instructables. Thanks all. <br>
Oh? Let's see YOU make one gram of oil from minerals! I'm waiting . . . still waiting . . . waiting . . . waiting . . . waiting . . . <br> <br>2,000,000,000,000 years later . . . waiting. . . waiting. . .
You're dead-on! In fact, study of the geologic record clearly shows that CO2 in the atmosphere ONLY increases 200-400 years AFTER Earth has a global warming period! <br> <br>Those who have world influence, and money to preach any LIE that will make them more $$$$ from a SOUP-headed public, can do so if they tell their LIES often enough to alter a few who then, like mindless transmission repeaters, go blabbering the LIES to the world as if they are facts! <br> <br>I'm certain this world is at the point where humanity will destroy it, if allowed to!
Its the monied interests that own all the media outlets and use them to create an echo chamber of lies that once repeated enough times tends to become thought of as the truth. <br>
there is no such thing as carbon debt. that was a scheme dreamt up by Al Gore to sell software that was needed to trade Carbon credits. the fact is trees, grass and all green plants use the so called green house gasses. Historical record shows that this is all a bunch of BS to bilk people out of money. As PT Barnum said, &quot;a fool and his money are soon Parted&quot; Just yesterday it was reported in the news that Al Gore is liquidating all his &quot;green&quot; investments, as the truth has come out and he is now losing money on his hoax. Now a proper lay out of panels is hail proof as you NEVER put them out without a protective panel over them... I've installed plenty of them. and panels do not generate any gasses, physical impossibility, when light hits them electrons flow, thats why they are connected to banks of storage batteries. lead acid batteries producee hydrogen, and when lightning strikes excess hydrogen in the atmosphere oxydizes and turns to water... You really need to learn about what you are babbling on about. The only thing you came CLOSE to is the production of the cells is not green, it doesnt produce the carbon like you claim but it does result in massive amounts of toxic chemical waste. <br>
What's up with the &quot;carbon debt&quot; nonsense? You buy the hoax about CO2 &quot;greenhouse&quot; gas silliness, based on altered &quot;science&quot; that's actually been proven many times over to come from political and commercial sources who will gain trillions of $$ for the world to BUY their LIES? <br> <br>As for Solar Panel pollution, ever wonder about the pollution you cause by your own trash stream? I dare you to tell us how much trash you personally generate! When you show you do not throw things away that have reuse value - everything - then come and talk about pollution. <br> <br>As for environment damage to Solar Panels, every hear about protection systems adequate for the task? Or, how to use other Solar Energy capture methods? Get away from the Al Gore idiots' think scam, and start living in reality!
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0in 0.0in 10.0pt;"> <font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri">Hello Shannonlove,</font></font></font></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0in 0.0in 10.0pt;"> <font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri">That was quite reply.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>When I have more time I would like to respond to several of the points but for now just these:</font></font></font></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0in 0.0in 10.0pt;"> <font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">My response to Jorgeneo560 was &ldquo;</font><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;color: rgb(51,51,51);line-height: 115.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;">In regard to emergency power, solar panels are green, quiet, and last decades&rdquo;<span style="">&nbsp; </span>I still stand by that because I was referring to the use of a gas or diesel generator for emergency power.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Generators rack up an enormous carbon debt in their manufacture, distribution, installation and maintenance and then you burn through gas at a fast clip in an emergency. Solar panels are quite quiet and many have multi-decade warranties.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Check out UL-solar&rsquo;s:</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0in 0.0in 10.0pt;"> <span style="font-size: 10.5pt;color: rgb(51,51,51);line-height: 115.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;"><a href="http://www.ul-solar.com/category_s/94.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ul-solar.com/category_s/94.htm</a></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0in 0.0in 10.0pt;"> <span style="font-size: 10.5pt;color: rgb(51,51,51);line-height: 115.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;">My oldest one is 13 years and it works fine.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>I recently purchased a slightly used 80 watt panel for $100.00.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>I bought it from a company that manufactures portable traffic signaling device.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>They could not sell it as new or use it on a new piece of equipment.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>So I rescued this panel from being a loss.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>It will be used to run an attic fan in the summer and a small heater in the winter.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>It is a small scale version of what I hope to have in the future.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>So in this regard I get to be green or potentially green twice.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Also another 80 peak watts will be helpful in an emergency.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Hail and lighting are not so much of a problem in southern California.<span style="">&nbsp; </span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0in 0.0in 10.0pt;"> <span style="font-size: 10.5pt;color: rgb(51,51,51);line-height: 115.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;">So I think this micro-solar thing is a great little hobby and fun in a geekish sort of way and I have been able to rescue a solar panel and a couple of car batteries in the process (green) and with my supercapacitor flashlights I have been not buying so many batteries (green):</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0in 0.0in 10.0pt;"> <span style="font-size: 10.5pt;color: rgb(51,51,51);line-height: 115.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;"><a href="http://www.instructables.com/id/400-Farad-Super-Capacitor-Flashlight-Build-This-/?ALLSTEPS" rel="nofollow">http://www.instructables.com/id/400-Farad-Super-Capacitor-Flashlight-Build-This-/?ALLSTEPS</a></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0in 0.0in 10.0pt;"> <span style="font-size: 10.5pt;color: rgb(51,51,51);line-height: 115.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;">I suppose on the green scale these hobbies beat out jet skiing by quite a bit.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0in 0.0in 10.0pt;"> <span style="font-size: 10.5pt;color: rgb(51,51,51);line-height: 115.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;">Thanks for your response.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0.0in 0.0in 10.0pt;"> <span style="font-size: 10.5pt;color: rgb(51,51,51);line-height: 115.0%;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;">Lux</span></p>
The small one panel ones they use at natural gas sites to run the monitoring equipment on the head (at least the ones around my friends land) are 140watt. I was shocked to see that. I didnt even know they made ones that efficient and that was 6 years ago. I haven't looked recently, but I would assume those little panels must of cost a small fortune. Might try and talk to some well workers and see if they have any damaged ones from hail, that they would sell. Even a damaged one is worth the repair if it puts out that kind of wattage.
Yay for second hand stuff. :) <br>
Every solar panel ever made is still working.. lower efficiency rate, but it never stops. Electricity can be stored in batteries, and it has to be *greener* than using generators full time, coal, etc. <br> <br>I've heard stories about how solar is useless, but that was from a military guy that has been brainwashed a lot by the gov't.... Improvements have been made in the last 10 years... *shrug* I like solar.
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I found this PDF about using EDTA on a sulfated battery that you might find interesting . I haven't yet tried it out . I have some batteries but no money for the chemical . I hope you find it useful :23 Home Power #20 &bull; December 1990 / January 1991 <br>New Life for Sulphated Lead-Acid Cells? <br>Richard Perez <br>&copy;1990 by Richard Perez <br>ver the years I have tried many chemical treatments supposed to rid a cell of sulphation. None of <br>them made any perceptible difference. A strange and devious set of circumstances has led us to <br>the successful chemical removal of sulphation from six lead acid cells. Not only are the <br>circumstances odd, but the chemical used, EDTA, is benign&ndash; in fact, it is used as a human food <br>preservative. <br>O <br>The Patients <br>The sulphated Trojan L-16W lead-acid batteries numbered four and <br>were the victims of a messy divorce. The pack was less than two <br>years old when its owners had a parting of the ways. The husband <br>took off for parts unknown. The wife left the house vowing never to <br>return. And she left ALL the lights on when she departed. This <br>system was sourced only by an engine/generator, with no PVs to <br>help out. After several days the batteries were totally discharged. <br>The batteries then sat discharged, with the lights switched on, for <br>the next three months. <br>The ailing pack was transported to Electron Connection for disposal <br>as part of the whole divorce rigamarole. Upon inspecting the cells <br>through the filler holes, we say vast amounts of white moss covering <br>all the plate assemblies. Or at least we assumed there were plates <br>in there somewhere because all we could see was an even blanket <br>of moldy looking lead sulfate. Seven of the twelve cells were very <br>low in water. Our job was to assess what these batteries were <br>worth. In order to do this we attempted to recharge them and see <br>how they held the charge. Open circuit voltage of the cells <br>averaged 0.7 Volts. <br>We placed the batteries on a four panel Kyocera J48 PV array (&raquo;12 <br>Amps) and the voltage immediately shot to 15 Volts where the <br>regulator cut in. The amount of current accepted by the four <br>L-16Ws was 0.4 Amps. We left the L-16Ws on the array for five <br>days, but they never did accept a charge. We then tried discharging <br>the batteries. They (all four 125 pound batteries) ran a 28 Watt car <br>tail light for about three minutes. This gave us an electrical capacity <br>of about 0.05 Ampere-hours per cell that originally had a capacity of <br>350 Ampere-hours. A classic case of sulphation ruining virtually <br>new, high quality batteries. We pronounced the cells toxic waste <br>and told the principals involved that the batteries were worthless. In <br>fact, worse than worthless because someone had to responsibly <br>dispose of them. The original owners promptly disappeared and left <br>us holding the batteries. They sat, forlorn and unloved, in the <br>battery area, side by side with new cells destined for caring homes. <br>In another reality&hellip; <br>My friend, George Patterson, a battery techie second to none, ran <br>into an article in an obscure British antique motorcar publication that <br>described using a chemical called EDTA to remove sulphation from <br>old lead-acid batteries. I related to him the story of the orphaned <br>L-16Ws and, to make a very long story short, we decided to give it a <br>try on these virtually new, but severely sulphated batteries. <br>EDTA, what is it? <br>It is an organic acid, a chemical cousin of vinegar. EDTA stands for <br>the entire name of the compound which is, &quot;ETHYLENEDIAMINE <br>TETRAACETIC&quot; Acid. EDTA is used for many chemical jobs, but <br>perhaps the most amazing is as a food preservative. I noticed it on <br>the list of ingredients of a can of Slice&reg; orange pop I drank. In <br>chemical techie terms, EDTA is a &quot;chelating agent&quot;. That means it <br>likes to bond to metallic ions (like lead sulfate). While EDTA is not <br>the sort of stuff you want to eat by the teaspoon (the label carries <br>warnings about getting it in the eyes or nose), it is a relatively <br>innocuous chemical with which to attack the sulphated nastiness of <br>those L-16Ws. I admit to being skeptical. I thought we were <br>wasting our time. How could something contained in orange pop <br>help these severely sick cells? <br>The Operation <br>George Patterson located and purchased 500 grams of EDTA from <br>a local chem lab that specializes in the chemical testing of wine. <br>The cost was low, under $15 for the EDTA and another ten bucks <br>for rush shipping. George then did an essential duty in this entire <br>process. He came up to HP Central in Hornbrook and got me off <br>my butt to actually perform this experiment. George could have <br>shipped me the EDTA, but he knew my faith in this project was so <br>low that I'd get it done some time next century. <br>We decided to operate on two of the L-16Ws and leave the other <br>two untreated as controls for the experiment. We had only sketchy <br>information from the British motorcar pub. It described a teaspoon <br>in every cell (hold the milk and sugar) and let sit for several hours. <br>It neglected to mention the size of the cell, but George and I <br>assumed that an antique motorcar would have a fairly small batteryabout <br>70 Amp-hrs. So we upscaled the amount of EDTA to 2 <br>Tablespoons to match the larger (350 Ampere-hour) L-16W cells. <br>What follows is a step by step description of what we did: <br>PLEASE NOTE: These operations involve handling sulfuric acid <br>electrolyte. We used acid resistant Norex lab coats, rubber boots, <br>rubber gloves, and safety glasses. If you try these operations <br>without this safety gear, then you are risking injury. Play it safe. <br>1 We drained the old electrolyte from all six of the cells. Now this <br>reads easier than it does. An L-16W battery weighs 125 pounds <br>and contains 9 quarts of sulfuric acid in its three cells. Be careful <br>not to drop the battery or spill the acid electrolyte. Reserve the old <br>electrolyte in secure containers and dispose of it properly through <br>your local battery shop. <br>2 We rinsed all the cells with water and drained them. <br>3 We added 2 Tablespoons of EDTA to each cell and refilled each <br>cell with hot (&raquo;120&deg;F.) tap water. <br>4 We left the cells to merrily bubble (the EDTA/lead sulfate reaction <br>is exothermic- it gives off heat) for about two hours. <br>5 We then drained the cells and repeated steps 2, 3, and 4 once <br>again. We could see the sulphation disappearing, but one <br>treatment had not got it all. Actually, two treatments didn't either <br>because there was still some sulphation there after the second go <br>Batteries <br>24 Home Power #20 &bull; December 1990 / January 1991 <br>round. <br>6 We rinsed each cell with distilled water and drained it. <br>7 We refilled each cell with new (sulphuric acid in solution with <br>distilled water- specific gravity 1.260) lead-acid electrolyte. <br>The Operation was a success? <br>After spending all day lifting and draining L-16Ws, George and I <br>were sore and ready for a few beers. This technique is not <br>recommended to the frail. If I were to do it again, I would build a <br>cradle to hold and invert these heavy batteries. Doing it by hand is <br>tiresome, risky, and invites injury. <br>Neither of us was convinced that we had accomplished much <br>beside some heavy sweating dressed in kinky moon suits. We left <br>the L-16Ws, disconnected and unused, in the basement battery <br>area. Every time I passed by, I would wire the pack of two <br>rejuvenated batteries into the PV array for some quickie recharging. <br>I had no time to run any sustained recharging or testing at that point <br>because we had another issue of Home Power going to press. <br>It was not until six weeks later that Scott Hening, our summer intern, <br>hooked up the EDTA treated L-16Ws into a working system. This <br>system is sourced by two ancient, anemic SolaVolt PV modules. <br>The system is simple: the PVs and the two L-16Ws. This system <br>provides power for lighting in Bob-O's spare trailer which houses <br>dignitaries and heads of state visiting HP Central. Here the EDTA <br>treated batteries received about 3 to 4 amps as long as the sun was <br>shining. Since this system is seldom used, the batteries received a <br>constant daily overcharge for about eight weeks. Bob-O kept on top <br>of the cells' water levels and refilled them as needed with distilled <br>water. <br>Since the trailer was seldom used, and no one staying there <br>complained of dead batteries, we just left the L-16Ws alone. Since <br>the system had no instrumentation, it was hard to tell how much <br>improvement the EDTA treatment did. <br>Enter a pressing need <br>Then all of a sudden (in the space of six days) one of the L-16Ws in <br>the main Home Power system (4@ L-16W) at Agate Flat develop <br>a shorted cell. As distressing as it was to lose an eleven year o <br>L-16W battery, it was fascinating to watch and record the death <br>one of its cells. The shorted cell dramatically unbalanced t <br>remaining three L-16Ws in the pack. I had to do something quick. <br>disconnected the series string of two L-16Ws with the bad ce <br>Putting a new L-16W in this eleven year old pack was out of t <br>question. I started thinking used battery and imagined the EDT <br>treated L-16Ws. Next day, I removed one of the EDTA treate <br>L-16Ws from Bob-O's trailer and inserted it the main Home Pow <br>battery. I had trouble choosing the best of the two EDTA treate <br>batteries. I went for the one that had the least voltage variatio <br>between cells. <br>EDTA treated L-16W performance <br>I had no idea what to expect. The last time I tested the sulphate <br>L-16W it wasn't able to power up a car tail light. I inserted it into t <br>main pack as follows in the illustration below. I gave each cell <br>number and recorded data on the performance of the battery on <br>cell by cell basis. The L-16W battery containing cells 1, 2, and 3 <br>the EDTA treated battery. The remaining L-16Ws (cells 4 throug <br>12) are the original, untreated, eleven year old batteries. <br>What happened? <br>I'll cut to the chase here. The L-16W treated with EDTA h <br>regained enough of its electrical capacity to function as an equ <br>element with the battery. It works! What follows below is data fro <br>all cells making up this battery under a variety of condition <br>Detailed in the tables on page 25 are a variety of data, here's <br>score card to help tell the players: <br>Battery Data <br>1. the date. 2. the battery Ampere-hour Meter reading whi <br>indicates the pack's State of Charge (minus indicates dischar <br>amp-hrs.). 3. the discharge or charge rate in Amperes (min <br>indicates discharge). <br>Individual Cell Data <br>4. the voltage of each cell. 5. the absolute cell voltage deviatio <br>from the average cell voltage. 6. the average battery (that's thr <br>Cell 12 Cell 11 Cell 10 <br>TROJAN <br>L-16W <br>Cell 6 Cell 5 Cell 4 <br>TROJAN <br>L-16W <br>Cell 9 Cell 8 Cell 7 <br>TROJAN <br>L-16W <br>Cell 3 Cell 2 Cell 1 <br>TROJAN <br>L-16W <br>POSITIVE <br>12 VDC <br>at <br>700 Amp-hrs. <br>Cells 1 through 3 <br>are the EDTA <br>treated cells. <br>Cells 4 through 12 <br>are 11 year old <br>untreated cells. <br>NEGATIVE <br>Batteries <br>25 Home Power #20 &bull; December 1990 / January 1991 <br>Batteries <br>Date: 10/21/90 Date: 11/2/90 <br>Amp-hrs. -61 Amp-hrs. -53 <br>Amperes -6.4 Amperes -8.4 <br>Absolute Average Absolute Average <br>Cell Cell Cell V. Battery V. Cell Cell Cell V. Battery V. <br># Voltage Deviation Deviation # Voltage Deviation Deviation <br>1 2.051 0.00058 0.00586 1 2.056 0.00083 0.00594 <br>2 2.048 0.00358 2 2.054 0.00117 <br>3 2.065 0.01342 3 2.071 0.01583 <br>4 2.051 0.00058 0.00325 4 2.052 0.00317 0.00583 <br>5 2.051 0.00058 5 2.053 0.00217 <br>6 2.043 0.00858 6 2.043 0.01217 <br>7 2.051 0.00058 0.00125 7 2.054 0.00117 0.00117 <br>8 2.050 0.00158 8 2.054 0.00117 <br>9 2.050 0.00158 9 2.054 0.00117 <br>10 2.058 0.00642 0.00714 10 2.062 0.00683 0.00728 <br>11 2.058 0.00642 11 2.062 0.00683 <br>12 2.043 0.00858 12 2.047 0.00817 <br>Average Cell Voltage 2.052 Average Cell Voltage 2.055 <br>Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.006244 Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.007259 <br>Max. Cell Voltage Difference 0.022 Max. Cell Voltage Difference 0.028 <br>Date: 11/7/90 Date: 11/19/90 <br>Amp-hrs. -29 Amp-hrs. -214 <br>Amperes -2.5 Amperes -2.1 <br>Absolute Average Absolute Average <br>Cell Cell Cell V. Battery V. Cell Cell Cell V. Battery V. <br># Voltage Deviation Deviation # Voltage Deviation Deviation <br>1 2.114 0.00508 0.00903 1 2.083 0.00075 0.00758 <br>2 2.110 0.00908 2 2.078 0.00425 <br>3 2.132 0.01292 3 2.100 0.01775 <br>4 2.120 0.00092 0.00164 4 2.082 0.00025 0.00258 <br>5 2.121 0.00192 5 2.082 0.00025 <br>6 2.117 0.00208 6 2.075 0.00725 <br>7 2.117 0.00208 0.00142 7 2.092 0.00975 0.00575 <br>8 2.118 0.00108 8 2.077 0.00525 <br>9 2.118 0.00108 9 2.080 0.00225 <br>10 2.125 0.00592 0.00697 10 2.087 0.00475 0.00658 <br>11 2.126 0.00692 11 2.083 0.00075 <br>12 2.111 0.00808 12 2.068 0.01425 <br>Average Cell Voltage 2.119 Average Cell Voltage 2.082 <br>Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.006317 Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.008203 <br>Max. Cell Voltage Difference 0.022 Max. Cell Voltage Difference 0.032 <br>cells in a case) voltage <br>deviation. Note EDTA <br>treated cells' data (Cells #1, <br>#2, &amp; #3) are printed in bold <br>type. <br>Derived Cell Data <br>7. average cell voltage. 8. <br>cell voltage standard <br>deviation (computed via <br>standard statistical <br>method). 9. maximum cell <br>voltage difference. <br>What the data means <br>What we are looking for are <br>differences in voltage <br>between cells. Which is <br>why the average cell <br>voltage and deviations from <br>average cell voltage are <br>computed. A maximum cell <br>voltage difference greater <br>than 0.05 VDC, under light <br>discharge (the cells are unbalanced. <br>This measured by <br>subtracting the voltage of <br>the highest cell from the <br>voltage of the lowest cell. <br>Note that on all four test <br>discharge runs (10/21/90, <br>11/2/90, 11/7/90, and <br>11/19/90) all the cells <br>making up the pack show <br>about the same voltage. In <br>fact, some of the EDTA <br>treated cells are showing <br>higher voltages than some <br>of the non-treated cells. <br>Bottom line is that the <br>EDTA treated cells are <br>functioning in as a series <br>parallel element in a battery <br>pack. Before treatment <br>these very same cells <br>couldn't store enough <br>power to operate a small <br>light blub for five minutes. <br>To date I have discharged <br>the test battery to the depth <br>of 214 Ampere-hours <br>(indicated by the Cruising <br>Equip. Amp-hr. meter) from the test battery. The EDTA treated cells <br>are continuing to function within the pack with less than 0.02 VDC <br>difference from untreated cells. <br>An alternative to the dump and refill method <br>The British motorcar publication recommended just adding the <br>EDTA to the cells and that's all. We went into the dump and rinse <br>madness on our own. Now, EDTA is supposed to work by just <br>adding the compound to the cell. No draining, no rising and no <br>electrolyte replacement. We are trying this technique with the <br>remaining two sulphated L-16Ws and will publish the data when we <br>get it. <br>How you can help&hellip; <br>This experiment seems to have worked. We would appreciate <br>verification from anyone else who tries it. After all, if you are sitting <br>on top of a heavily sulphated lead-acid pack, what do you have to <br>lose? EDTA is cheap and it may restore lost electrical capacity to <br>sulphated lead-acid cells. We would appreciate any feedback from <br>those trying our dump and flush technique or those simply adding <br>EDTA to the cells and just leaving it there. As a very general rule of <br>26 Home Power #20 &bull; December 1990 / January 1991 <br>2.040 <br>2.060 <br>2.080 <br>2.100 <br>2.120 <br>2.140 <br>1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 <br>10/21/90 11/2/90 11/7/90 11/19/90 <br>Cell Number - EDTA treated cells are #1,#2, &amp; #3. <br>thumb, use 1 to 2 teaspoons of Lead-Acid Cell Voltage Comparison on EDTA Treated Cells <br>EDTA per 100 Ampere-hours of <br>lead-acid cell rated capacity. <br>EDTA can be ordered from any <br>chemical supplier or from any <br>aggressive drug store. <br>Conclusion <br>EDTA seems to work. I say again <br>SEEMS to work. This experiment <br>was far from scientific because it <br>lacks enough cells to get a large <br>statistical sample. Use of EDTA <br>may extend the useful life of <br>sulphated lead-acid cells by <br>chemically stripping the sulphation <br>from the plates' surfaces. <br>Really, the bottom line here is that <br>I am sitting in front of this Mac, <br>writing this article with electricity <br>stored in lead-acid cells that <br>before EDTA treatment were toxic <br>junk. Color me amazed. And as a <br>sidelight, the long and involved set <br>of circumstances that led us to try this experiment is as amazing as <br>the fact that it worked. Serendipity is an ingredient in this process. <br>Access <br>Richard Perez, C/O Home Power, POB 130, Hornbrook, CA 96044 &bull; <br>916-475-3179. <br>Batteries <br>Pacific West Supply Co. <br>16643 SW Roosevelt <br>Lake Oswego, OR 97035 <br>(503) 835-1212 &bull; FAX (503) 835-8901 <br>Pacific <br>West <br>Supply Co. <br>+ _ <br>A Resource Holdings Ltd. Co. <br>3 100% Cycling Acceptable <br>3 No Sulfation or Memory <br>3 Low Maintenance <br>3 High Quality, Long Life <br>3 30+ Ampere-hour sizes <br>3 New or Reconditioned <br>3 Call for availability &amp; sizes <br>3 Electric Vehicle Batteries <br>&quot;Batteries from the Past for Your Future!&quot; <br>Things that Work! <br>tested by Home Power <br>George Patterson, 3674 Greenhill Road, Santa Rosa, CA 95404. <br>Makers of the EDTA we used: Sigma Chemical Co., POB 14508, S <br>Louis, MO 63178 &bull; 314-771-5750. Their stock number for EDT <br>is 48F-0104. <br>Suppliers of the EDTA we used: Vinquiry, 16003 Healdsburg Ave <br>Healdsburg, CA 95488 &bull; 707-433-8869. <br>36 Home Power #21 February / March 1991 <br>Batteries <br>Some Non-Numeric Observations <br>I'll get to numbers in a moment, but first want to share a fe <br>qualitative observations. <br>First: The battery pack feels perkier. Its voltage rises faster in t <br>mornings. It doesn't go so low at night, as I sit draining it with m <br>big evening load: computer, printer, large computer screen, co <br>television, and fluorescent light (20 amps all told). <br>Second: the cells in two of my batteries had an especia <br>noticeable reaction when the EDTA solution was added on Janua <br>7th. There was immediate bubbling, and within an hour a larg <br>amount of white material coated the tops of the plates. It looked li <br>a small snowstorm had occurred in those cells. Two weeks late <br>the material is still there, although there is less of it. This wh <br>material, which I assume is a product of the EDTA reaction, al <br>formed in the other battery cells, but to a much lesser degree. I a <br>keeping a careful eye on these two batteries; so far there is <br>major voltage degradation. <br>Third: there are white deposits on the tops of each cell around t <br>HydroCaps. I assume this is also the EDTA chelate. It is greate <br>on the two cells noted in the previous paragraph. <br>Why Cell Voltage Data <br>In a healthy battery pack, the voltages of the individual cells a <br>equal. In a sick pack, the cell voltages vary. Since I currently la <br>the instrumentation required to take direct battery pa <br>performance data -- the ratio of watts in to watts out -- I rely on c <br>voltage data as a health indicator. <br>I've taken cell voltage data on four occasions: just before EDT <br>treatment 1, just before EDTA treatment 2, two days after EDT <br>treatment 2, and twelve days after EDTA treatment 2. We' <br>printed the first, second, and fourth data samples. <br>About the Data <br>I have eight batteries. Each data sample shows the measure <br>voltage of each of the three cells in each battery. <br>Beneath each battery's voltage I derive seven statistical measure <br>These help analyze the raw cell voltage data. <br>First is the difference between a cell's voltage and the avera <br>voltage of all cells in the pack. This is given as a positive numb <br>for each cell in the battery. We want this to be as small as possibl <br>Second is the average of these cell::pack deviations for the thre <br>cells in the battery. We add up the three cell deviations and divid <br>by three. We want this to be as small as possible. <br>Third is the difference between a cell's voltage and the avera <br>voltage of all cells in the battery. This is given as a positive numb <br>for each cell in the battery. We want this to be as small as possibl <br>Fourth is the average of these cell::battery deviations for the thre <br>cells in the battery. We add up the three cell deviations and divid <br>by three. We want this to be as small as possible. <br>Fifth is the average voltage of all cells in the battery. <br>Sixth is the standard deviation of cell voltages. This is figured <br>applying the standard deviation formula you'll find in any statistic <br>Preliminary Notes From the EDTA Trenches by Stan Krute <br>I was quite excited by the articles in HP #20 on using EDTA to <br>rejuvenate lead-acid batteries. I've done some experimenting of my <br>own the past few weeks, and want to share the early results. <br>About My Battery Pack <br>I have eight Trojan L-16 batteries in my pack. Each battery <br>consists of three cells. Each cell has a voltage a bit over 2 volts. <br>The cells are connected in series, so each battery has a voltage a <br>bit over 6 volts. A pair of batteries is then connected in series, to <br>produce a voltage a bit over 12 volts. The four battery pairs are <br>then connected in parallel, which keeps the voltage at 12 volts <br>while upping the amperage. <br>My battery pack has been in use for 6.5 years. Much of that time <br>has been rough. During the first 5 years, I was working away from <br>home for extended periods. I didn't have solar panels. I didn't have <br>Hydro-Caps. Though I'd leave the batteries well-charged, they'd <br>slowly discharge and get low on electrolyte while I was gone. <br>For the past 1.5 years, things have been better. I've been home, <br>have a roof full of solar panels, and have Hydro-Caps installed. I'm <br>able to make sure the voltage and electrolyte levels stay healthy. <br>Lead-acid batteries are unforgiving, however. Those first 5 years <br>did some damage. Though I don't have fancy instrumentation, I <br>could tell that the pack had lost its snap. It discharged too quickly, <br>and woke up too slowly in the morning as the sun and panels <br>started pouring energy in. The voltage variance between cells was <br>growing. <br>A Modified Plan of Action <br>Then came the EDTA article. I was excited. I decided to act. <br>Richard Perez mentioned that the technique he and George <br>Patterson used was not only radical, but difficult. They had flushed <br>and drained their experimental batteries several times. These L- <br>16s are big, heavy batteries. So he suggested a treatment <br>modification: just add the EDTA to the batteries. No repeated flush <br>and drain. I asked what would happen to the crap the EDTA would <br>form when it combined with the trouble-making lead sulfate it was <br>removing. Richard said that this chelate should settle to the <br>bottom of the battery cases, and there was plenty of room for it <br>there, since the battery plates only come within an inch or two of <br>the case bottoms. <br>Rounds One and Two <br>I purchased 1 kilogram of EDTA, which by the way stands for <br>ethylenediamine-tetraacetic acid. The kind I purchased is a <br>Tetrasodium Salt: Hydrate manufactured by the Sigma Chemical <br>Company of St. Louis, Missouri. Its chemical formula is <br>C10H12N2O8Na4. On December 20th I added 24 tablespoons of the <br>chemical to 36 ounces of warm distilled water. I shook it up, then <br>set it next to the wood stove. After 10 minutes the solution was <br>clear and fully dissolved. I added 1.5 ounces of the solution to each <br>of my batteries' cells. Thus, each cell received 1 tablespoon of the <br>chemical in solution. <br>Two and a half weeks later, on January 7th, I repeated the <br>procedure, adding another 1 tablespoon of the chemical in solution <br>to each cell. <br>37 Home Power #21 February / March 1991 <br>Batteries <br>Data Sample #1 <br>date: 12/20/90 system voltage: 12.58 volts <br>time: 11 am system amperage: 9 amps <br>system temperature: 25&deg; Fahrenheit <br>notes: Data taken before adding 1 Tablespoon EDTA per cell. Each Tablespoon of EDTA <br>was dissolved in 2 ounces of distilled water. <br>battery 1 battery 2 battery 3 battery 4 <br>back row cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 <br>of pack 2.04 2.05 2.04 2.07 2.05 2.07 2.07 2.06 2.07 2.06 2.07 2.07 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.028 0.018 0.028 0.002 0.018 0.002 0.002 0.007 0.002 0.007 0.002 0.002 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.024 0.008 0.004 0.004 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.003 0.007 0.003 0.007 0.013 0.007 0.003 0.007 0.003 0.007 0.003 0.003 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.004 0.009 0.004 0.004 <br>Battery Average Cell Voltage 2.043 2.063 2.067 2.067 <br>Battery Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.005 0.009 0.005 0.005 <br>Battery Maximum Cell Voltage Difference 0.010 0.020 0.010 0.010 <br>battery 5 battery 6 battery 7 battery 8 <br>front row cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 <br>of pack 2.07 2.08 2.07 2.08 2.06 2.08 2.07 2.09 2.08 2.07 2.08 2.07 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.002 0.013 0.002 0.013 0.007 0.013 0.002 0.023 0.013 0.002 0.013 0.002 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.006 0.011 0.013 0.006 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.003 0.007 0.003 0.007 0.013 0.007 0.010 0.010 0.000 0.003 0.007 0.003 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.004 0.009 0.007 0.004 <br>Battery Average Cell Voltage 2.073 2.073 2.080 2.073 <br>Battery Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.005 0.009 0.008 0.005 <br>Battery Maximum Cell Voltage Difference 0.010 0.020 0.020 0.010 <br>Pack Average Cell Voltage 2.068 <br>Pack Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.012 <br>Pack Maximum Cell Voltage Difference 0.050 <br>Maximum Pack Average::Battery Cell Voltage Difference 0.014 <br>Maximum Pack Average::Battery Average Voltage Difference 0.024 <br>Average Battery:Pack Voltage Difference 0.006 <br>Data Sample #2 <br>date: 1/7/91 system voltage: 12.25 volts <br>time: 9:30 am system amperage: 0 amps <br>system temperature: 45&deg; Fahrenheit <br>notes: Data taken before adding a second 1 Tablespoon of EDTA per cell. When EDTA was added to <br>cells in batteries 6 and 7, immediate bubbling action and precipitation was observed. <br>battery 1 battery 2 battery 3 battery 4 <br>back row cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 <br>of pack 2.02 2.02 2.02 2.04 2.01 2.03 2.03 2.03 2.03 2.03 2.03 2.03 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.010 0.010 0.010 0.010 0.020 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.010 0.010 0.000 0.000 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.013 0.017 0.003 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.000 0.011 0.000 0.000 <br>Battery Average Cell Voltage 2.020 2.027 2.030 2.030 <br>Battery Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.000 0.012 0.000 0.000 <br>Battery Maximum Cell Voltage Difference 0.000 0.030 0.000 0.000 <br>battery 5 battery 6 battery 7 battery 8 <br>front row cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 <br>of pack 2.04 2.03 2.05 2.03 2.03 2.03 2.03 2.03 2.04 2.02 2.04 2.03 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.010 0.000 0.020 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.010 0.010 0.010 0.000 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.010 0.000 0.003 0.007 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.000 0.010 0.010 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.003 0.003 0.007 0.010 0.010 0.000 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.007 0.000 0.004 0.007 <br>Battery Average Cell Voltage 2.040 2.030 2.033 2.030 <br>Battery Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.008 0.000 0.005 0.008 <br>Battery Maximum Cell Voltage Difference 0.020 0.000 0.010 0.020 <br>% change from <br>Pack Average Cell Voltage 2.030 first sample <br>Pack Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.008 -33% <br>Pack Maximum Cell Voltage Difference 0.040 -20% <br>Maximum Pack Average::Battery Cell Voltage Difference 0.010 -29% <br>Maximum Pack Average::Battery Average Voltage Difference 0.010 -59% <br>Average Battery:Pack Voltage Difference 0.005 -17% <br>38 Home Power #21 February / March 1991 <br>Batteries <br>Data Sample #4 <br>date: 1/19/91 system voltage: 12.89 volts <br>time: 2;25 pm system amperage: 14 amps <br>system temperature: 50&deg; Fahrenheit <br>notes: 12 days after last EDTA treatment. still white precipitate on battery tops &amp; inside cells. especially in <br>cells of batteries 6 and 7. like a light snowfall. <br>battery 1 battery 2 battery 3 battery 4 <br>back row cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 <br>of pack 2.13 2.14 2.13 2.14 2.14 2.13 2.13 2.14 2.13 2.13 2.14 2.13 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.003 0.007 0.003 0.007 0.007 0.003 0.003 0.007 0.003 0.003 0.007 0.003 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.004 0.006 0.004 0.004 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.003 0.007 0.003 0.003 0.003 0.007 0.003 0.007 0.003 0.003 0.007 0.003 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.004 0.004 0.004 0.004 <br>Battery Average Cell Voltage 2.133 2.137 2.133 2.133 <br>Battery Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.005 0.005 0.005 0.005 <br>Battery Maximum Cell Voltage Difference 0.010 0.010 0.010 0.010 <br>battery 5 battery 6 battery 7 battery 8 <br>front row cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 cell 1 cell 2 cell 3 <br>of pack 2.13 2.15 2.13 2.12 2.13 2.13 2.13 2.13 2.13 2.13 2.14 2.13 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.003 0.017 0.003 0.013 0.003 0.003 0.003 0.003 0.003 0.003 0.007 0.003 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Pack 0.008 0.006 0.003 0.004 <br>Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.007 0.013 0.007 0.007 0.003 0.003 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.003 0.007 0.003 <br>Average Absolute Cell Deviation From Battery 0.009 0.004 0.000 0.004 <br>Battery Average Cell Voltage 2.137 2.127 2.130 2.133 <br>Battery Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.009 0.005 0.000 0.005 <br>Battery Maximum Cell Voltage Difference 0.020 0.010 0.000 0.010 <br>% change from <br>Pack Average Cell Voltage 2.133 first sample <br>Pack Cell Voltage Standard Deviation 0.006 -50% <br>Pack Maximum Cell Voltage Difference 0.03 -40% <br>Maximum Pack Average::Battery Cell Voltage Difference 0.010 -29% <br>Maximum Pack Average::Battery Average Voltage Difference 0.006 -74% <br>Average Battery:Pack Voltage Difference 0.002 -67% <br>text to the battery's cell voltages. We want this to be as small as <br>possible. <br>Seventh is the maximum voltage difference between any two cells <br>in the battery. We want this to be as small as possible. <br>After giving the data and these statistics for each cell and battery, I <br>derive six more statistical measures for the pack as a whole. <br>The first of these is the average voltage of all cells in the pack. I <br>add up all the cell voltages and divide by 24. <br>Second is the standard deviation of cell voltages. This is figured by <br>applying the standard deviation formula you'll find in any statistics <br>text to the pack's cell voltages. We want this to be as small as <br>possible. <br>Third is the maximum voltage difference between any two cells in <br>the pack. We want this to be as small as possible. <br>Fourth is the maximum voltage difference between the average <br>voltage of all cells in the pack and any individual cell. We want this <br>to be as small as possible. <br>Fifth is the maximum voltage difference between the average <br>voltage of all cells in the pack and the average cell voltage of any <br>battery. We want this to be as small as possible. <br>Sixth is the average voltage difference between batteries and the <br>entire pack. We want this to be as small as possible. <br>On the second and fourth samples, I show the percent of change <br>each of the last five pack statistical measures since the fi <br>sample. <br>Some Interpretation <br>What we want to see is the cell voltages coming closer togethe <br>We want most of the statistical measures to approach zero. <br>This is what has been happening. By the fourth sample, the da <br>seems significant. The changes in the last five pack statistic <br>measures range from 29 to 74 percent. They are going in the rig <br>direction -- down. <br>I am a very happy puppy so far. I shall give further reports as t <br>experiment continues. <br>Access <br>Stan Krute is a pinhead. He may be reached at 18617 Camp Cre <br>Road, Hornbrook, California 96044. &bull; 916-475-3428.
Interesting, <br> <br>I was only aware of medical uses for EDTA
<p>There is a lot of those magic blends out there and most at the time it will not work.</p><p>I had a car battery that was sitting in an not running toyota for 2 years without a charge.</p><p>I started to charge and to discharge the battery with the help of an timer. It took 6 weeks to get capacity back, it is used every day right now to solar power up part of my house.</p><p>On the other hand a battery that was sitting in an diesel car for 4 years did not make it.</p>
<p>The information you are given here is useful. When your car or inverter battery dead than we replace it or get new battery with discount or less prices. With recycle method we use old battery in many works.</p>
<p>This instructable was the main source material for this article called &quot;Lighting Up The Off Grid Third World&quot;. On the Before It's News web site. It is possible to provide usable lighting to several houses (perhaps as many as 16) using the 20 watt solar set up and highly efficient piranha LEDS:</p><p><a href="http://beforeitsnews.com/survival/2015/01/lighting-up-the-off-grid-third-world-2553434.html" rel="nofollow">http://beforeitsnews.com/survival/2015/01/lighting-up-the-off-grid-third-world-2553434.html</a></p>
<p>I have to dispute this comment made below, &quot;However, very few panels actually do work in isolation so you have to figure in the carbon emissions of the grid power that backs the panels up.&quot; What rubbish! That grid power is going to be used anyway. If the PV solar panels are not in place then even more grid power is used. So, the use of solar panels is indeed helping to lower the carbon footprint. I believe that the comment has been made by a solar PV naysayer. Back to the Instructable though, brilliant. Well done. More people should be looking at what can be done with discarded vehicle and back up power batteries, after all, we have the joule thief circuits for getting that last little bit of power out of small domestic power cells :)</p>
<p><br></p><p>Thanks Kevinf1,</p><p>We agree. Besides, these two off grid micro solar setups have nothing to do with the grid except the fact that I will have a little useable power if the grid is not supplying me with power (and I have some LED lighting on my patio 24/7). Even if carbon emissions or any of the other fallacious arguments had merit it would apply to this the same way it would apply to any non essential. What amount of carbon emissions are caused to make or own an average flat panel TV? What is the energy return on investment (zero)? At least a solar panel has an energy return on investment. One of my solar panels was used to run small exhaust fans in my attic for 10 years (summer). In the future I plan to heat water with a 12 volt RV heating element to offset the use of gas to heat my house (winter). But the bottom line is that I want micro solar back up power and the minuscule investment has a smaller carbon footprint before the panels ever saw the light of day at my house than a trip for the family to Disneyland (local to me) and Disneyland has no energy return on investment.</p>
Agreed on the 12v car battery being better than nothing. An old 12v is still better than a bunch of AA batteries. Not sure why you would want to wire the lights directly to the panel? That's what batteries are for. Not to mention your also bypassing the ability to have the controller turn off when it gets too low. <br>And please add an inline fuse.
dtommyd, <br> <br>If you look closely at the first picture you will see an alligator clip on the positive terminal that is connected to a small in line fuse. This connects to the Led lighting board (not connected to the panel). <br> <br>Thanks
Thanks so much for posting this! Now I know what I can do with the old battery out of my <a href="http://www.palmautomall.com/used-inventory" rel="nofollow">used car in port charlotte</a>. Thanks!
I have never had a time that I didn't come to this site and was completely amazed by what I found! I've tried so many tricks ad things its crazy. I'm really impressed with the stuff I see. This time I've been looking for info on <a href="http://www.bestride.com" rel="nofollow">utica NY used cars</a> and how to go about it, but this article was a lot more fascinating! Thanks for sharing!
Get Cheap Batteries some battery stores,like Interstate Battery, sell removed good batteries for cheap. They are still good but the car owners wanted new as part of a maintenance for vehicles such as ambulance and service vehicles. Great source for good and cheap-o!
you have the hp-pavilion dm4?! that's the computer i'm using right now, that's so cool
Pavilion dv6
Batteries die because of calcification, and some tested on a Midtronics or Snap-on battery tester, the $3000 one not the cheap handheld one, will show that some have low CCA. Test it as a marine battery and the amperage might be 0 or more. Still, car batteries are not meant to be used as long-drain use batteries.
although not intended for low-current, long drain applications, they CAN operate in this manner - just not as efficiently as, say, a marine trolling battery. That said, the cost of reusing a 'failed' car battery in this manner is negligible. I used an old car battery in lieu of the 'correct' lead-acid batteries in a computer UPS once - the runtime on that car battery was considerable - well over an hour, versus the 18-20 minutes the UPS was originally rated for. This was plenty of capacity to handle most short-term power outages, and the setup lasted for several years. <br>Cost of new UPS batteries: $130+ Cost of a crusty old used group-24 auto battery: $10. Winner: used auto battery.
Also, you could get more amperage out of lawn-and-garden sized marine battery...$35
how can you get more current out of a 100 amp battery than out of a 650 amp battery?
I think he means more current out of a NEW lawn-and-garden battery than out of a USED car battery.... I suppose this would depend on how far 'gone' the used car battery is.
Checking the pallet behind a lot of car parts store will provide some &quot;pretty hot&quot; batterys that were swapped out at first signs of poopin' out. Some will even serve for another year or so after a good post cleaning, even on a cold Mt. morning..YUP.!
careful there dude those batteries were PURCHASED for recycling, and removal without permission IS theft,,,
It's a small town, and I have a scanner to know when &quot;They&quot; are out on a county call, and I work nights on these things - and they are pretty close to the garbage, etc,etc, etc, =////=======&gt; HAR.! G-G
have you tried to zap them with a welder? It breaks down the crystal dendrite that cause them the not take a charge. Just a few taps on the terminals +to+ and -to- will do. Make sure to wear eye protection and don't stand over it when you do just in case.
Eye protection = Welding Goggels.? Great tip, once at Radio Shack &quot;Yuba City, Ca&quot;. I over heard the cleark telling a customer that zapping rechargable batterys whold get them to charge. I should have written down the zapper components, maybe they can be found here on good Ol' Instructables. Thank's for the tip, now I'm itching even more to go short some out with a Jack Handle, and take them with Me next time I drive up to a Buddy's place. Never have had one blow open &quot;Yet&quot;.
Snoop you use a high capacity capacitor of ten to one hundred times the voltage capacity of the NICAD battery you are trying to rejuvinate. It doesnt always work. But today it just is not worth the effort since nicads are not all that in demand any more. The way it worked is the capacitor would be charged up and taken off the charge circuit and directly applied to the nicad. the voltage would then literally blow open the crystalized nickel short that developed within the battery, as if it was a fuse. Newer Nicads dont develop these shorts and nmhis and lithium batteries never did. NEVER try this with any form of lead acid. they literally blow dead, as the internal connections melt. And Gelled electolyte batteries are destroyed when they start to gas as the bubbles force the gel off of the plates preventing any chemical reactions. Gel cells are designed for slow charging and low current loads if you have a high current demand you need a wet cell such as a true deep cycle battery. Automotive starting batteries are not made to be drained down to nothing and recharged like a deepcycle battery is, they are made to just start the car and the cars alternator then takes over and recharges the battery, and powers the car.
Thank You, I just found this message. A good one for the Ol' Wordpad. Incidentilly, in the mid 70's I had a failing 12 Volt in My pickup. I was going with a Gal whos Father passed away leaving about 3 cases of V-X 6 battery additive. that He hadn't sold. I put a &quot;Double Dose&quot; in My battery and when I got home I heard a hissing. I thought Oh Great, now the radiator, but when I lifted the hood the battery was puffed out over an inch, and trying to turn round. I set the hood down but didn't latch It in case the battery let loose hard enough to try and turn the hood round too. Next day all seemed normal, it was My only vehicle so I drove It to work, all still seemed normal but I was sure waiting for payday to get rid of It..! I hope no one took It off a pallet behind the store. I just had a thought, taking batterys from behind stores is stealing core charges, I bet. &quot;Well they werent that far from the garbage anyway&quot;.. Later. G-G
There is a scrap metal company near where I live that pays you cash for scrap metal but pays nothing for old car batteries. In other words they will do you a favor by taking them off your hands an disposing of them properly. I have a couple of really dead ones. I am planning on stopping in and seeing if they are willing to trade my 2 of my dead batteries for two of theirs. If they want to know why, I will show them with my volt meter that mine are dead and the two I want are not. Plus I will have a print out of the PDF of this instructable without the comments and give them a copy and say &acirc;€œThere&acirc;€™s this guy who says some dead car batteries are not really dead&acirc;€
Come to think of it, they collect them in back by the used oil tank, at the dump. The possibilities are endless. Thanks again. G-G
Right you are, snoopindaweb...when you can find'm. Used to was, you could get that kind of thing everywhere. Today, most of the battery makers require a core for every new battery they deliver. If they don't get one, they charge extra, usually more than was paid by the guy who turned it in at the store.
Wrong, that core charge is a state tax...and the store charges it because the state checks on that because it is a hazardous material.
No shenrie the tax is included in the purchase price, the core charge is a recycling fee that is seperate from the hazmat tax

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