V8-4" vawt,savonius,vertical axis,wind turbine,ametek)

http://www.vawt.tk Guys Don't Get sick Of me, But After making the V8-3" I realized that the Vanes are not able to hold onto all the wind that comes near it, that was due to when i expanded the middel section it flattened the vanes in the middel, so i designed the V8-4" in a way that when i expand it, it retain the correct shape to stay efficent and able to use all the wind it can get. This design has the RPM and have more Blade area than the V8-3".

V8-4" is made from the follwing:

-8 x 4"x10' PVC pipe cut to shape as in rendering($11.89 each)(95.12 total)(vanes)
-2 x 3"X2" permanent caps (sewer pipes aisle)($2.99 each))($5.98 total)(brackets)
-1 X 6" bike axle from an old bike (free or few $)(top axle)
-1 X 5" long male/female adaptor (arbor) ($7.99)(bottom connection)
-1 X 12" hard plastic tricycle wheel (free)(center bracket assembly)
-24 X 1"x1/8" screws ($1.99)(screws)
-1 X Ametek dc motor ($60.00)(generator)
-frame made from 2x4 ($11.00)(frame)

Total of::: $182.08

My Goal Still is to generate 100 watts at 35km/h

So I hope you guys enjoy this one like the ones before it.

Regards

Faroun

Step 1 Vanes

The Vanes are made from white 4" PVC cut to Cad Design.



I have cut the vanes to shape as designed in Cad. this design is much more effective in retaining the wind and producing rotation energy. trust me i tried many diffrent cuts and i wasted alot of money to come up with this one, so take my advise.

note: I rendered a drawing for you to see how to cut your vanes (PVC).

I hope I explained it correctly..

And A 1/8" hole is drilled at each side and it is 1" from side and 1" away from bottom.

Again you have to alternate the pvc pipes because of the flange end.

That is it.

Regards

Faroun

Comments

[Tannius]

I love the vertical design, you can have several turbines in a limited space this way. Here's a couple of ideas to maximize your power generation though. Generators on both top and bottom. I looked over at sspence and his 1000 watt wind generator Instructable and think it could be adapted here on both ends, possibly even something set up around the middle where you have the reinforced structure. You could theoretically be pulling power from 3 locations on a single turbine with no added friction. Build five turbines and you've got 15 points of power generation! (as long as it's windy anyway.) If anyone can see something wrong with this idea let me know. It sounds too simple to truly work.

[Roflolommo]

nope that wont work when the turbine spins the generator the generator slows it down and converts that energy into electricity. 2 generators would just slow it down extra fast.

[Tannius]

I was recently told this by another practitioner of electric theory. I assume it's the resistance of electrons through the copper wire that create drag. Bloody stupid if you ask me. Electricity shouldn't behave like that, how dare physics make life difficult!

[Roflolommo]

I know why cant there just be one broken rule so that the energy input and output dont match and we can create unlimited energy. :(
but if i remember right the electrons flowing through the wire create a magnetic field in the opposite direction just like dropping a magnet down a copper tube. If you havent done it look it up on youtube its pretty sweet.

[grayghosty]

you can not break the rules but some times they can be bent slightly.it might be possible to play with the gearing set up to make the unit more efficiant,it may call for looseing some potential energy on the lower end when the winds are weak and having a greater gain on the high side.Now we could actually take this one step further and use a cvt trans mition fron a snomobile,or snow blower,or may be a lawn tractor.these are all automatic in functionthe faster they spin the faster the geni will as well.This might also have the benifit of acting as an extream retarder actually supplying some drag and keeping the turbine below terminal velosity

[faroun]

thanks for your kind and motivating words, for this size turbine i do not think that more gens mean more watt, this turbine was calculated at 100 watt in 30 to 35 kmh wind. and one gen should produce this kind of power without and added gens. i hate to disagree with my fans but i think that this turbine does not have enough blade area to sustain any extra generators...thanks......

[rapidprototyping]

On my savanious i used plywood in 1980 and flanged aluminum pipes cut in half. styrofoam might make good substitute or addition so the wood would be protected from rain and snow moisture wont effect foam and the foam could then be powder coated. keeping it sturdy yet light weight as possible and weather proof and in balance

[faroun]

fine thinking on your part, did you use it to produce power or pump water?. regards sam

[suharto_u]

replace the ceramic magnet with neodimium magnet on ametek 38vdc motor and you can get more high voltage output,

my experience I get 67vdc at 2600 rpm (before replacing about 45vdc at the same rpm) . neodimium magnet size 1"x0.5"x0.25" and the I completed test this motor for wind turbine 12vdc @ 240 rpm.

very cheap and  simple way to reduce rpm  ametek 38vdc motor for wind turbine.

[faroun]

true, why not. i think i will give this tip a try. thanks

[faroun]

hi there guys, i have made a new wind turbine style and call it The "FAWT Silo" (fixed axis wind turbine Silo) maybe later i can do an instructable on it, but for now you can visit my site at www.wrapwind.com to see how i did it. regards

[faroun]

(removed by author or community request)

[Linksep]

Good idea. Spam every turbine project on instructables with a website that doesn't exist.

[faroun]

lol...i spelled it wrong...thanks for noticing, i will fix it. regards

[al_taka]

Faroun, good effort and shows lots of inspiration. Nice design. Have you done any testing with measured wind speed and different blade designs. I assuming you have by adding more blades. I'm in the designing stage right now and see most manufactured units utilize wing shaped airfoils, very few blades and adjustable angle of attack of the blade. I having trouble finding any information about this technique, probably engineers protecting their unique designs so its up to me to do more research. I have decided to use a magnetic bearing to suspend the 100 lb. turbine and a 750 watt wheelchair motor/gearbox as the 24 volt generator. The motor/gearbox has a 20:1 ratio and is already water resistant. Thanks for all your pictures and work! Al

[faroun]

You welcome Al, i did do few more after the V8-4".

the last vawt i made is the V18-4" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QOoMPLGD6c

and now i am working on a FAWT silo, i have not done fancy testing yet, i am still building turbines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKvhCEr7oUY
i am going to post pics soon on my site to show the Fawt Silo

thanks

[al_taka]

Faroun, Simply amazing the work and results you are getting. I'll be looking forward to see the propeller you design for the FAWT. In your video you were concerned with the propeller being very close to the frame to minimize leakage. Centrifugal force and the downward bowing of the blades will make the leakage worse. You could use Wing-lets on the tips of your blades to arrest the outward movement of air and force the air to channel off the trailing edge of the blade. I remember seeing propellers with wing-lets for experimental aircraft that increase the blades efficiency just as wing-lets help wing attain more lift and less vortex drag. Also on your V18-4 the top tapered roller bearing was a good idea but still has a little friction. A suggestion is to use two 5 inch donut ceramic magnets to levitate the turbine weight completely, and are purchased from surpluscenter.com. I'll be glad to explain how their installed if you can't visualize it. The axial forces will be held by top and bottom self centering ball bearing pillow blocks from the same place. They already have zerk fittings for yearly greasing. That allows the bottom of the turbine shaft to attach to the generator close to the ground for easy maintenance. Al

[faroun]

thanks Al, it has been fun creating and making things be. i did try the mag lift with rings but the dan things are expensive. i will be working on mounting the prop on the fawt this weekend, part of me is thinking that the fawt is too close to the ground, standing inside i felt that the wind is bouncing of the ground and back inside... it will be a nightmare to lift it...i have designed my own blades but i cant find a way to build them yet. they are curved upward 8" approx so 6 blades will sit in the fawt like a bowl facing the wind, so this way i trap the wind and the only way out is through the blades...anyway i am terible with my explanation i hope soon i can biuld one from fiber glass.. regrads

[al_taka]

An idea just popped into my head, Can you use a squirrel-cage Blower fan from a air handler?
If it works it will also solve your problem of the air hitting the ground. They come in any size.
http://www.surplussales.com/HeatVentAir/fans-squirrel-cage.html

[al_taka]

Your doing a great job and having fun at it, what could be better?
The magnets are only 9.00 each, and the pillow blocks keep everything centered.
Here's a link:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009091717050656&item=1-2345-C&catname=

The wind coming out the bottom is a concern, use a curved cone shaped deflector under your fan to redirect the air.
Or flip the fawt upside down to shoot the air straight up, (too much work).

On a side note:
Did you see the Windmill that makes water for people living in the desert. It drives a small compressor that acts like a dehumidifier and extracts water vapor from the dry air.
Amazing.

[tonyibu]

thr best i saw

[faroun]

thanks

[faroun]

hi there guys, it is still snowing over here and nothing much happinnig,
the only new thing is that i got lucky and contacted by a very prestigous person who asked me to send him one of my turbines the V8-4" to Harvard ECOLOGICAL URBANISM Exhibit, i shipped it last month and now it is on display i am hoping to get pics for you guys to see it.
here is one pic that i found on the net.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/quilian/3401946567/

best regards

[ralegg]

I have a question that may be rather simplistic in light of the advanced technical conversations that are going on in this forum. I will soon be looking for my own house, which makes energy efficiency and saving money much more relevant to me. I have been reading as many of these 'green' energy forums as I can but I have little experience with electrical work (I'm a biologist, not an engineer). However, I'm eager to learn. I found the average energy use per month by consumers in MN (according to the US Dept. of Energy) is 832 kwh. Also, MN's average annual wind speed is 12.5 - 15.6 mph. Based on these averages and your own experience with the design (or if anyone suggests a different design), how much of this monthly average do you think 1 V8 could manage? I realize it will not be 100%, but I am just going for a bench mark. If you could give me a guess, please also include the voltage and type of motor you are basing it from. Thanks for your incredible work! -RL

[faroun]

Ralegg, I appreciate your vote of confidence, but based on the info you provided this VAWT will not be successful, my vision for these small turbine is to produce 50 to 100 watt at 35kmh wind and they are meant to be used for a cottage, garage, far away well and other small and remote accessed structures. but sure many of them will produce alot of power but that is not practical. so based on the info you mentioned, you need a HAWT that can produce 3kw, they are more efficient than vertical axis but a bit unfriendly when it comes to maintenance, at this time it is still expensive to maintain them, if you are thinking of investing then you should be ready to get dirty to fix them. Solar on the other hand are less maintenance and they are dropping in prices fast. I am sorry if my answer is not what you were looking for. I hope for other to post their thoughts on this. best regards

[gfry]

Why don't you make one of the permanent magnet alternators that sspence did in his 1000 watt wind genny Instructable. It could solve your low RPM/dc motor issues. You would have to rectify the output but that's not a big deal. As far as the bearing issue is concerned, I have participated in rotational battery research in the past. At one point we experimented with a single stainless ball bearing (3/16ths" diameter) on the end of the axle shaft which bottomed out on a piece of nylon...for a horizontal spinning rotor. The test rotor was 40 lbs and we got nearly 3 months out of the assembly before the nylon had to be replaced. We worked with magnetic levitation as well, but the simplicity of the nylon would fit the type of project you are working on. Great work here...keep us up on your next developments.

[pistacik]

Ball bearings were mentioned few times. I would consider using thrust ball bearings, possibly "self aligning" ones or tapered ball bearings. They should be perfectly able to support much bigger weights/loads.

[faroun]

that sound good, can you post a link or recommend a site to get them from? thanks

[Woodenbikes]

Cool turbine! Looking at the end section views, it looks like a centrifugal fan that tends to fling air outward as it spins. This would create a vacuum from which you might be able to harvest even more energy by putting propeller style blades inside the top and bottom end caps. P.S. Could you include a link to the youtube movie?

[faroun]

search for emagnets user. if you search savonius, mine is the secound one that appears. i have uploaded 2 new videos. enjoy

[faroun]

FYI, it has been cold and stormy this way, and soon i relised that the 38vdc ametek slow or stop spining when it gets bellow -10 degrees. last night it went to -22degrees and with windsheild it was -34degrees. my turbines slowed down and few stoped spining. lol.. any way i cant wait untill the next 4 month pass... hey, dont forget to vote!! note: i have created a forum at vawt.tk check it out. thanks faroun

[svprakash]

good

[forthewindgen]

i have a suggestion a sapphire bearing on the tip of the bottom shaft. a sapphire is super though and because the whole assembly is resting on the pivot point it can spin more freely this combines with permanent magnetic assissited lift or mag levitation of the bottom rotor. a slight lift of the turbine makes it start in lower wind speed. take your time quality assenbly and parts not makeshift assemblies creative ideas can come from using tricycle wheels don't get me wrong by all means keep experimenting study whats been done and make your improvements lightweight means aluminum ,strong as steel and weather resistant . you dont want off balance,warped or melted turbines. also thing of components as if you were going to make a hundred units how would you do it then. cast on a casing wheel,cut with cnc router,cut to pattern. so maybe you should make a mould or create a jig firts or use a pattern so you can exactely repeat your manufacturing so each unit is the clone of the working prototype. these skills you learn will be usefull through out life. lessons are patience,in fund raising as well in getting the job done right try and do it your self all the way don't let your ideas be compromised or altered. you will have to learn to take critism thats hard sometimes. so helpers are no help some welders will cause your project to come out altered by their design input. This is why i suggested aluminum you can get sheets and cut with wood working tools file down drill holes for balancing ect. once balanced weld permanently and it can be coated with materials that make it less desirable to recycle it or that might be the design enhancment. if you could set up to recycle aluminum cans cast billets and machine the parts to wind turbines and simply add the generator and battery pack as a kit. his motor as generator and charging a old laptop battery just enough leds to light up as it spinns and runns everything 9 volt from the aa battery setup

[faroun]

wow...a storm of thoughts, criticism is a door for improvement and nothing less. I am under 4 feet of snow and the project had come to halt for the time being. I see you are into to this type of energy, have you built one you called your own? regards faroun

[forthewindgen]

i've read several other comments and you doing a good job you should direct drive that motor generator like suggested and the controles that generator man suggested should be pursued controles are everything. i've read about ultra capacitors on the web also battery dides are a great addition. we'll get it our selfs no bail out necessary. so far axial direct drive metal support frame black pipe off the shelf neodynium generator,diodes for dual batterys and untracapacitor to even out electrical surges to battery pack. i'm thinking multiples of the turbines if we get it to work and goal of charging that electric car on here the day we can drive into town and back fifty miles round trip and all from the power of the wind or sun. we can if we keep trying keep on task

[jmck82]

Have you tested noise production at maximum rotation? How many decibels does it produce? Great project so far!

[faroun]

Jmck82, I am sorry to say that I have not even thought of this issue, it sure makes noise but nothing bad, it very smooth and wide pitch sound. that is the best answer I can give for now. regards

[glgrsa]

Hi Faroun. how many watts do you get from this rig? could you in corporate two axial flux generator/alternators one top one bottom? I would like more info if possible, want to apply tech in rural Africa. thanks for thre great post

[faroun]

testing with an ametek I only gotten 19watt at 18kmh the testing data is as follows. wind speed 18kmh rpm 256rpm vdc 9.5vdc amps 2.1amp i am hoping to get a nodded alternator like windblue for a reasonable price. I can not test it at 35kmh wind now, I need to move it in order to test it properly. with my calculation with the data above. I should get 72watt with proper dc generator, it could even be more. -you could corporate axial flux style gen put with my experience with them they did not perform as good as the of the shelf dc motors. you can try and tell me your results. with this style you can join them together using dc to dc motor with diots in between them. Note: If you guys like my post , please rate it. thanks

[roho76]

I don't know if this is a problem but would a 1/4 shroud that extends the entire length of the Savonious connected to a weather vein tail to keep the shroud facing the wind help against wind resistance on the opposing side of the turbine? It seems that wind hitting the opposite side would slow it down but a shroud with a tail that moves independent from the turbine would work.