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The Scientific method? It has its failings, how can we make it better?

video The Scientific method? It has its failings, how can we make it better?
 Ambjorn Naeve invented a neat solar device over 30 years ago. But the practical idea and the mathematical concept fell through the cracks in the system.
Once upon a time, well to do people did "science" privately for fun. Peer review was not  the formalized process we have now. It was people copying each others experiments and making improvements. Nowadays, we in the rich world are more well to do than ever before but it seems this form of peer review has ended. Now, it seems everybody stands back and plays it safe, watching, consulting with "searches" and copying exactly some "proven" idea and doing nothing new.
I put up this video to try to shake people out of their complacency. The "scientific method" is not working as well as it should because people are not participating enough.
Lets get it back on track.
Who decides what gets researched and what gets ignored? Let us try to ask the right questions so that we can fix the problem and make the scientific method work better. For all of us.
Brian White
54 comments
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Oct 18, 2010. 7:15 PMkikazz says:
Whoa, I didnt know that there was such conversation on this site. Awsome!
Jun 5, 2010. 8:46 AMnutsandbolts_64 says:
So uh you're saying society went "copy cat" on itself? Then you're asking we need a drastic change in the way we do things around here? I don't have doubts (on what I understand), but I can't comprehend what you're saying. I can't comprehend the video due to faulty speakers. It's just i got a headache so I can't think straight. Please clarify, thanks!
Jun 5, 2010. 10:21 PMnutsandbolts_64 says:
Okay, makes sense. From my understanding, it all boils down to one common, human trait: selfishness. *eats raisin cookie*
Jun 6, 2010. 4:48 AMnutsandbolts_64 says:
lol, straight to the point if that's what you're talking about.
Sep 8, 2009. 7:49 AMfishhead455 says:
I shall only put in my three cents worth because a couple of my favorite people have been drawn into the discussion:( Lemony, Kiteman). Each time gaiatechnician comes up with a new idea I( tried) many times to offer easier solutions to his rube- goldberg reinventions of the wheel. He seems to prefer to stay in his own world and tries to convince others that his is the newest and best solution to a problem that has already been solved. I gave up and have, consequently, relegated him and his notions to, well, somewhere other than in the forefront in my thoughts. But we all know that he will never give up...and I wish him all the luck he deserves.
Jan 19, 2010. 7:15 AMtatay66 says:
Reading all the personal attacks for this thread makes me sick. If you dont have anything constructive to say then dont say it. Making suggestions you know are beyond someones money and education doesnt make you sound smart it makes you look like the back end of a donkey.  By the way scientists do peruse the web looking at everything and researching anything that looks like it works for other applications. Thats what makes collaboration with others so enlightening they may miss something you see. For anyone here that knows it all i pity you. As far as peer review goes it didnt help Naeve, his design is excellent and there is both video proof and documented scientific evidence. http://kmr.nada.kth.se/wiki/Main/PointFocus#Sven_Eketorp By the way thats a college and he's a PHD.
Sep 7, 2009. 11:17 AMrea5245 says:
If you want something peer reviewed, submit a paper to a scientific journal. Scientists don't spend their days perusing the web looking for tinkerers that they can do peer reviews on. If you want to be noticed for innovative things you've made, patent them and start a business selling them. Posting a video to Instructables complaining that the scientific community has not recognized your accomplishments will not accomplish much. Also, if you don't have an audio editor, try writing a script before you start recording. That will keep your narration focused.
Sep 7, 2009. 5:44 PMrea5245 says:
Scientists don't spend their days perusing the web for projects because it's such an inefficient way to find new ideas. It's far better to have people with innovative projects identify themselves through scientific magazines, engineering magazines, patent offices, and even marketing departments. "Why not direct them to stuff that has not been properly checked out"? Because there are crackpots out there with perpetual motion machines, proofs that relativity is wrong, theories that viruses are a type of subatomic particle, disproofs of evolution, evidence that the moon landing never happened, and they all say that scientists have ignored their genius and that the peer review process is broken. Scientists don't have the time to chase down everything that someone claims is worth checking out. That's why someone who has something valuable must come forward with a demonstration of its value. "My narration doesn't need be focused": you're right, it doesn't. Just because every accomplished scientist, engineer, and inventor produces focused, concise presentations of their ideas, doesn't mean you have to. "I am already recognized for innovation": In 14 comments in Instructables? I thought you wanted something a little broader.
Sep 8, 2009. 9:29 AMrea5245 says:
OK, you don't like the association with perpetual motion, creationism, etc. Fair enough. I wasn't accusing you of those things, just pointing out that someone perusing the web for new discoveries (if scientists were to do such a thing) has to wade though so much garbage that it's nearly impossible to find good stuff. It's just not a good way to discover good ideas. But I think you'll like this even less: imagine if Edison had said "twenty years ago, I suggested that someone should try putting a filament of some material in a vacuum and running electricity through it. I left pamphlets in the laundromat where I wash my clothes and the supermarket where I buy food, suggesting that a bunch of students could experiment with different materials. But in twenty years, no one has done any research. What's the matter with the scientific community, that they haven't followed up on this?" This will be my last post on the subject. You may have the last word.
Sep 7, 2009. 11:38 PMKiteman says:
So your comment about not directing them to worthwhile stuff is a bit suspect

Not really - do a search for new engineering system or new power sysytem, you get millions of hits.

How many are woowoo?
Sep 8, 2009. 4:48 AMKiteman says:
Please, read what I wrote. I am not attacking you, I am attempting to correct your misconceptions. The internet is not peer-reviewed (else explain all the free energy, creationism, etc). Very little on the internet gets any sort of attention unless people know about it. Leaving things liying around on a website will not get you views unless you let people know it is there. Publicity.
Sep 7, 2009. 1:46 PMlemonie says:
This gist of this seems to be "why isn't anyone interested in my stuff". It's not science that isn't working it's your "marketing department". This might cost you a bit of investment, but build these things and sell them. Get a stand at a trade fair, get someone with cash to back you. If these things do actually work, you ought to be able to market them.
There are a lot of people with good ideas on the internet that are full of potential, "could be" and "probably", but haven't been developed into devices that can be bought and used.
Some suckers buy publications on "free energy" that are no use, take some tips and sell people things that are?

L
Sep 7, 2009. 11:30 PMlemonie says:
You say "couple of years on the internet nothing has happened", "and same deal nothing", "same deal nothing", "same deal, nobody has done any research on it", "no one cares".
The point about the "free energy" thing is that they can generate interest in bogus free energy - it follows that you should be able to generate interest in real free energy - it's an example of attracting interest / marketing ideas. You could rebuild some more of these and post them here for a start?

L
Sep 8, 2009. 11:42 AMlemonie says:
Have you taken it upon yourself to build Naeve's device and review it?

I'm of the opinion that complaining that other people haven't found this stuff and built it is not the best approach. Testing them yourself, producing data and making claims would give people something to review. This is usually what people do for submission to journals.

Remember SolReka? Claims are made, full instructions offered. You wouldn't have to sell anything but present your devices in a similar way and they can be reviewed more easily, rather than evaluated.

I think we've got different ideas over the meaning of "peer review", you'd actually like someone to evaluate and develop these ideas?

L
Sep 8, 2009. 11:51 PMlemonie says:
Yes I saw your designs - the only point about that link is that it makes specific claims about performance and offers full instructions to build. That is something a person could pick up, build and review. As you observe, a comparison would be nice, this is the sort of thing I'm getting at,when I'm thinking about publicity for designs. L
Sep 8, 2009. 4:54 AMKiteman says:
Still the same misconception - the internet is not peer review.<br/><br/>Lemonie gave you an example of how <em>anything</em> can become well-known with a little appropriate marketing.<br/><br/>You want these ideas known? Don't moan about the system on a site that is not part of the system - go put the ideas <em>in</em> the system.<br/><br/>Start with <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENZZ304&q=engineering+journal&meta=lr%3D">this little lot</a>, then move on to <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENZZ304&q=solar+journal&meta=">these</a>.<br/><br/>Did you know those journals existed? Had you looked for them?<br/>
Sep 7, 2009. 2:03 PMKiteman says:
That looks American, but if you check the disclaimer they're in Macedonia!
Sep 7, 2009. 11:51 AMKiteman says:
As near as I can see, that's a solution to a problem that no longer exists - parabolic dishes are mass-produced, and sit on the side of millions of homes.

Peer review does not happen on the internet. It happens through formal journals. If they did not submit a formal paper to a journal, it would not have had any review at all. One man's comment on a website is not "peer review".

Similarly, if you want an idea to be taken up by a lot of people, you do not plonk it on a website and expect the masses to come to you. You need to actively approach relevant organisations and companies.

If nobody knows an idea exists, how can they test it?

Lack of hits is not lack of interest or lack of caring, it is lack of awareness.

If you want funding to develop your ideas, why not go get it?

Sep 7, 2009. 11:40 PMKiteman says:
You're in Canada, right? It's over 20 years since I was in Africa, but even then there were satellite dishes on lots of buildings. As I said, if you want attention, go find it. Don't just expect busy scientists to prowl the internet looking for ideas to research, prepare a proper write-up of your ideas and submit them to a proper journal.
Sep 8, 2009. 4:45 AMKiteman says:
Any satellite dish is parabolic, whether it is a major tracking dish or your Sky TV dish.

Yes, anybody can submit a paper for peer review.

So little is known because nobody knew to look for it. Don't you get it? People only find stuff they look for. If they don't know it exists, they won't look for it. You have to wave any idea in paeople's faces before they look at it.

"Available" is not the same as "known". My real name has been in the public domain for over forty years. Do you know it? No, because you have never thought to look for it.

I have not accused you of doing anything wrong, you have just misjudged the significance of the internet. There are millions of blogs out there, each with only a few dozen hits. Not because their content is poor, but because people simply do not know they exist.

Put the information into the proper domain, not just the public domain.
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Author:gaiatechnician
I am a stone mason. My hobby is making new solar cooking and gardening stuff. I have used solar heat to cook soil for a couple of years. In mother earth news in January, i read that their compost expe...
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