~ World's Greenest WATER PUMP ~

Step 4 How it works...

Here's how to operate it:

To run it, you need about 5' of feed water pipe for every 1' of fall below your pond or creek. I have 10' of fall and 50' of feed pipe supplying 3 gallons/min. (A little longer would be better say 5.5:1)

Now manually push (cycle) the valve cap adjuster up and down about 30 or 40 times to fill the pressure tank. These pumps need back pressure in the tank to operate automatically. When the pump starts to cycle on it's own, you will want to screw the adjuster cap up or down to make the cycle frequency about 60 - 150 cycles per minute.

Experiment with the cycle frequency to find what delivers the most water for you. Lots of troubleshooting guides on the net to help you fine tune it. You may need to add or remove some weight off the bottom of the valve stem if it cycles too fast or slow and you don't have enough adjustment available by turning the upper valve cap. A little denial and error and you will find the sweet spot to get it running smoothly.

I have found that if it cycles too fast, you don't build up any pressure and delivery flow is low or stops. If it cycles too slow, delivery flow is weaker and you use more feed water than necessary and you can drain the feed pipe if your supply water is limited. Mine seems to deliver the most water at a cycle rate of 150/minute.

Enjoy your gravity powered water pump, it's the closest thing you may ever see to perpetual motion... Hopefully you can see the movie of it working.

This is the best hobby project I have ever built from scrap parts and recycled junk. We use it every day all summer long and it facinates everyone who comes to visit us while saving real money!

Comments

[gfry]

Dynamite! I don't know where I've been the last 45 years, but I don't think I have ever come across a ram pump. If this thing pushes that much water you could tinker with it further and get it pushing a geared pelton wheel (or a flywheel of some kind)...get the thing making electricity for you at the same time.

[eltigre]

I have certainly thought about that. The exhaust water has enough force to drive a small turbine for sure. The valve stem force is considerable as well, so attaching a magnet directly to the top of the valve stem and dropping a coil around it leading to a bridge rectifier should produce measureable amounts of power as well. (Might be enough to run a couple led lights for around my pond) My calculations show that it is delivering water at an equivalent electrical rate of about 17 watts of power. Not bad at all considering it's absolutely cost fee to operate!

[mje]

Don't forget the Second Law of Thermodynamics- you can't get something for nothing. If you try to extract power from the exhaust, you'll increase the back pressure on the pump- and it will stop working. The work done in lifting the water has to come from somewhere, after all, and in this case it comes from the energy you gained in the water that fell and was not pumped back uphill. Try to extract energy from that water, and there's naught left to left the rest.

[danielwhw]

the pressure on the exhaust is not related to the water going uphill. now it may affect the frequency of the pump but replacing the weights with magnets and the coils he described can resolve the frequency issue.
Also using the exhaust water do drive a wheel wont change anything on the pump side if you don't create any back pressure.

[zerokewl777]

and I don't mean to rain down hard on ya mate but impossible is just a word for quitters... aim working on an overunity unit right now with these same pricibles... you forgot gravity remains a constant. if i put a water wheel a few feet away from the extraction point if will not even effect the machine... (btw if your smart you have a 10000000 dollar idea here heheh .. peace bro.

[zerokewl777]

Don't forget the Second Law of Thermodynamics??? what does heat have to do with a water pump? Ill give you the dynamic (movement) but thermo??(heat) it is for use in heat powered machines only.. with a few rare .. well if rambled on. sorry ( i sign up for an account to say this....

[The Ideanator]

Temperature is relative dude. Thermodynamics rules apply at sub-zero just as much as they do on the sun's surface, theres just a bigger difference.

[techball]

what would the point be in that, just attach a generator to the feed stream directly and bypass the pump all together, i believe that's the concept that hydro dams are based on... its funny, every engineer has probably tried to "make" a "over-unity" machine, aka, engine over 100% efficiency

[eltigre]

True enough, but in this case, there is plenty of energy left over in the exhaust. Since we have increased the velocity of the exhaust water by forcing the weight of a 55' long 2" column of water through 2 x 0.75" ports, we increase the pressure considerably. In fact, enough to throw the weight of the valve (about 1 lb. total) upwards against gravity at an accereration of about 1.5"/second. I agree you can not load it up to the point where it will stop the valve or slow it excessively, but there is still lots of power left over here to capture some secondary energy. One approach would be to reduce the weight of the valve ballast and substitute the weight of some neodymium magnets instead. Then install a coil around those magnets and the cyclical motion of the valve will generate electrical power when it operates, with no loss of water pumping power. What do you think? Want to help me design the system??

[zerokewl777]

I WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Email is [e-mail]( im a guy)

[WilderLust]

True... but as stated above, there is excess energy so while we cannot harvest all of the exhaust energy, much of it can be. the magnet idea is interesting but it must be remembered that when magnet is moved through a coil to generate electricity, a magnetic drag is created thus impeding the movement of the magnets so it will effect the valve. I think the simplest way to do this is to direct the exhaust jet over a simple water wheel connected to an electric motor turned to a small generator. the jet should have enough power to turn the wheel and generate a small amount of electricity. i love this pump design... i hope i will have a chance to build one sometime.

[mje]

Thermodynamics still applies ;-) If you turn the valve into a generator, you're taking energy away from the pump. You can't take energy out without getting it from somewhere.

[zerokewl777]

ARHHHHHHHHHHH ur way of science is about to die muahahahahaha :-) see above post

[rr52]

I think the idea is that the water wasted is blowing out and falling anyway. Redirecting it to turn a small turbine will not impede anything. Much like the wasted heat generated from a hydrogen fuel cell can be redirected into a home for additional heat instead of going off into the air taking efficiency from 35 to 85% efficiency. .

[eltigre]

Agreed, but I think the energy we want to capture is waste energy.

e.g.. you get free heat in your car in the winter from the waste heat generated by your engine. In the case of this pump, most of the available power is blown by the valve unused, So, if we installed a little Pelton wheel generator externally, the exhaust water might be used to drive it after it exits the valve body and therefore should not affect the efficiency of the water pumping operation. Like a jet engine afterburner, except we are already dumping our "fuel" , the exhaust pressure, so we don't have to add any more fuel to the equation. Maybe regenerative braking is a better example, or better yet... cogeneration, just like my geothermal heating system provides me with free hot water from the waste heat it tries to get rid of during it's operating cycle.

[mje]

Well, you're certainly welcome to experiment! But I think you'll find very little energy can be extracted from the exhaust. The car analogy only works because you're dealing with an inefficient system to begin with. But- surprise of surprises- turning on the heater in your car uses gas!

[zerokewl777]

omg!! i could show u how to make an overunity unit with these same plans on a smaller scale using only a few liters of water... and because no power is being put in the extrat force along coming out of the pipe and the fallign water would be enof to turn a small water wheel with an altanator btw everything here said of mine © ;-)

[MinerJay]

Good luck with that working mate, by the way please learn how to spell.

[Taranach]

I beg to differ, I have tested fuel efficiencies of my truck in summer and winter and the heat that can come through without the dashboard fans is sufficient to heat the truck, no wasted gas. Interesting enough, it takes slightly MORE gas to operate the truck in summer due to having to dump the heat away from the engine. I get 18.53 MPG in winter and 17.26 MPG in summer with all else being equal. Simple thermodynamics. As for not being able to recover the waste energy, bull pucky! Have the exhaust water drain into a catch basis a couple feet away and the water will regain all the potential energy from flowing downhill. The longer the distance between the catch basin and your power generation, the greater this potential becomes.

[mje]

You well well get better mileage in the winter, but it's not because you're running the heater. Better mileage in winter is usually due to increased volumetric efficiency from ingesting colder air. Removing more energy from the system does require more fuel- once again, no freebies. The Otto cycle is only about 35% efficient in turning fuel into energy, so there's a lot of waste heat to capture for a car heater of turbocharger. But since the thermostat keeps the temperature of the cooling system constant, drawing more energy burns more fuel. If you recapture energy from the exhaust water flowing downhill... you're just picking up the energy from the water flowing downhill. Again, keep in mind that extracting any dynamic energy from the stream of water exiting the pump will increase back pressure, and decrease the amount of work done at the other end. A hydraulic ram works by extracting energy from water that had dropped over a gradient by compressing air. The energy stored in that compressed air is then used to raise a fraction of the water to a higher level than it started from. The rest of the water is simply dumped. If you impede the flow of that water, less will exit from teh ram, and less will be admitted in at the otehr end.

[Taranach]

Read again please, I am not running the fans, I am allowing the heat within the heater coil to dissipate in the enclosed space of the cab, no further energy required that is not present anyway. The heat energy is still there the only difference is whether the waste heat is discharged to atmosphere or into an enclosed space. Again, apples and oranges. Indeed one cannot tap the discharged energy directly from the output as it decreases the efficiency however, that is not what I stated. The question is whether further energy could be gleaned from the discharge rather than letting it just spill to the ground. I postulated how it could be done WITHOUT affecting the pump efficiency. As long as there is a continuation of the downgrade, electricity can be gained. The further the distance downhill from the pump, the more energy can be claimed. Electricity also has the advantage of not having appreciable mass so losses compared to head pressures of water are reduced. Finally, I am a robotics engineer by trade and have a very strong understanding of hydraulics and pneumatics due to the integral nature of these to power sources in automation. There is also a very strong impetus for efficiency in these systems in the industrial world, especially now.

[MinerJay]

I have a problem for you, the further you go down the hill to generate pressure for another energy converter the bigger the Z or R will be, thus problems with power transmission with lower values of voltage I would assume you will be producing. what will be the gain of using the exhaust water for power? There are much easier ways to get electron flow. I think what most of you are trying to achieve will never work as well as you think it will, there is always losses in everything, it would be nice if it were a perfect world and everything worked as well as calcs on paper that factor in no opposing forces. Keep dreaming, one day you might just come across something that "could" change the world, it's a pity you will want to make money out of it and become just as bad as the guys you are trying to battle against, got to love greed. Have fun! Jay

[mje]

The fan draws power from the engine. As I noted, the otto cycle produces so much waste energy that it's not a valid comparison.

There's really no disagreement here. The hydraulic ram is running right on the edge, efficiency-wise. Any energy you draw *from the ram* will affect the functioning of the ram. If you let the water fall another foot or so, you're not using the energy of the exhaust- you're simply tapping the gravitation gradient between the ram and where you put your turbine, which I think is what you're saying. But that's not tapping into "waste energy" from the ram, which was someone's initial contention.

[eltigre]

This is an excellent discussion, Thanks for participating. I think where we are at odds here is in the mechanical design of the energy extraction system. If we attempt to enclose the ram pump exhaust water and use the pressurized system to extract energy, then I would agree with your position that valve back pressure will be affected. That said, the concept I have in mind attempts to extract waste energy after it has left the valve and therefore should not affect the valve operation in any way. Schematic attached... (obviously, more efficiency can be gained by directing the exhaust water in a more optimal configuration)

[mje]

You may be surprised to find that the proposed Pelton wheel will in fact increase back pressure, even though the flow appears to be unconstrained. Don't take my word for it- try it. Position an obstruction a few inches from the exhaust, and see if the flow from the pump doesn't decrease.

[eltigre]

Actually, I have already done as you suggest. If you have a close look at the video, you will see a clear plastic butter tub obstructing the valve exhaust intended to direct it downwards. I installed this as a splash guard to redirect the exhaust water from shooting straight out the exhaust ports about 30" or so and making a muddy mess around the pump. The walls of the plastic tub are about 1" or less distance from the exhaust port holes. There was no measurable reduction in GPM pumped. I conducted numerous timed output tests as I attempted to adjust my pump for optimal performance.

[mje]

Fair enough. Now let's see how much useful work you can extract at the distance.

[Taranach]

Read again, I did not state it was from the heater, that is residual heat flowing through the heater coil and being expended. The only difference is where it is expended, to the outside or to an enclosed space. No further energy is being expended to get the heat to the cab then before. You and I are talking different dynamics here... I was not talking about taking energy directly from the discharge, I was talking about utilizing the discharge for further energy withdrawal rather than letting it leak out to the ground. One can attain multiple taps of energy from gravity when available and since electricity does not have the disadvantage of mass it can be used further downstream from the pump. I completely understand hydraulics as I am a robotic engineer by trade. Hydraulic (and pneumatic) systems are a large integral part of automation systems and increasing efficiency of systems has become quite the priority in industrial settings. I agree that the energy cannot be taken immediately from the discharge but that is not what I said.

[eltigre]

I agree, but only so much gas as required to push the additional load on the alternator consumed by running the electric fan, very little really. All the heat is extracted from the cooling water system that must operate regardless. (Unless you own an old style VW beetle with an air cooled engine. Mine used to have an auxiliary gas heater in it and that thing did burn gas directly, just like a little furnace!!) :o I'm convinced the co-generation model applies here. I will have to try it out this summer and let you know how it plays out...

[Ohnanka]

wow, this is awesome! Not super technically-minded, but I'd like to built one of these at my mates farm. If you really think you could get upto 17-watts of power, you could surely run an mp3 player and charge your phone with it too! (this would be ideal for my mate, who has no power except by bio-diesel generator, and no landline, but does have a mobile)

[eltigre]

It will move a lot of water for you. Especially if you don't have to pump it as high or as far. If you filled up a few large tanks or many barrels or made a small pond at the top of your hill, this pump will fill it over time and you can then use that to drive a turbine to fast charge some batteries. or you can try a small generator on the exhaust water for some trickle charging of a battery. Might work if you charge it up all night and use it a few hours in the day. Let me know what you come up with.

[gfry]

Ok, forget the standard pelton wheel idea...you're right, too much back pressure. However, if the exhaust water was directed it could be focused on an "open pelton" (without creating any back pressure) which is in turn directly attached to a heavy flywheel...maybe 3 or 4 used truck break rotors. The flywheel would reach a steady rpm, and it could easily turn an automotive alternator. It's rotation could be stepped up with a pulley and belt combination. If I am not mistaken, you could get a lot more than 17 watts out of it.

[frollard]

You'd think so, but its based on flow rate, and height.

The 15-17 watts we calculated is x water at y height with earth gravity
Potential energy = mgh, mass times gravity constant, times height.

Thats maximum power INCLUDED in the falling water, no matter what design you can only hope to extract a portion of that wattage.

[gfry]

I agree, the automotive alternator is probably a bust due to the required RPM but there are low RPM DIY alternators that are pretty efficient. http://www.otherpower.com/wardalt.html The Brushless DC Motors are certainly another way to suck some juice out of this thing as well. Key to the whole thing is the rotor. Instead of tying it directly to the shaft so it is spinning at the same rate as the pelton, it could be tied in with with a pulley and belt assembly and be "geared" up to a much larger rotational speed.

Now lets get really freaky. Joseph Newman suggests that there is an odd set of principles involved in the output potentials of rotating bodies. (Wiki the name) I hate to use him as a reference, but regardless of the man's eccentricities, there seems to be something to what he is talking about.

Wow, I hope I haven't lost all credibility at this point. His premise suggests that energy into a system can be significantly less than the rotational energy out. And, yes there may be ducks flying overhead right now making lots of noise but the only way to definitively prove or disprove the point would be to try it out. So, based on his theories, regardless of the flow rate and height, more energy output may be possible than the 17 watts due to the introduction of a large rotating "body" into the system.

[eltigre]

Hey Gfry, I do experiment with pulsed coil devices. (A laser cutter would sure help to prototype those things, hint hint, I have spent a lot of hours at my lathe and milling machine to tinker those things together) They do have some very interesting properties and I'm not ready to give up on them yet, but I think the best way to go with the pump co-generation would be a more conventional hydo-electric install. The exhaust water appears to me to have sufficient velocity on exit to drive a small wheel, say 12-18" diameter at sufficient rpm to get some useful wattage.

[gfry]

Hi eltigre: I worked on a Rotational Battery study a decade ago, and still find the whole subject fascinating. The direction was to miniaturize the rotor and get the rpms up to 125000 to 175000. My preference would be to decrease the rpms, and increase the mass of the rotor. But it's a little on the dangerous side working with a 300 or 400 lb rotor spinning at 1000 to 1200 rpm... The energy in the moving exhaust water is wasted as it hits the ground. If that energy is "stored" as rotational energy in a rotor it must be additive especially if you can gear up the speed of the rotor. At the end of the day though, you are probably right...a conventional set up should produce a solid output. Let's hear it for convention! Woo Hoo.

[eltigre]

Hey Gfry, I think a substantial flywheel is a necessity to harvest this pulsed power coming out of the valve. Spin it up and let the water pulse continue to keep it rotating at speed. Alternators however usually require over 1,000 rpm to generate anything useful and they do drag a lot, plus you will have significant losses from belt step up transmissions etc. On the other hand, I have a variety of brushless DC motors that act directly as generators when driven. (My radiator cooling fan motor will put out 5 amps @ 14v) Perhaps a combination paddle wheel/flywheel direct driving a brushless dc motor might be a simple demonstration apparatus. I have also had some success driving multipole stepper motors at low speed. (Each pole has to be isolated with a diode) good voltage at very low drive power but their amperage output is not very high. Old printers and 5.25 floppy disks have nice small stepper motors to experiment with. Salvage away...

[laketango]

what a fantastic concept, very very smart, well done!
We are trying to farm on the banks of Lake Tanganyika and our solar pump is not coping, so this would be ideal.  Love this idea, need to know 3 things please:
1. you mentioned details on the gate valve but I can't see any
2. i don't understand how the check valve is connected to the pressure tank, does the cap move within the 1.5' pipe, then reduced to fit into the tank??
3. does the pump have to be below the water line to operate, i.e. water is forced into the inlet pipe by gravity?.

[eltigre]

Please look at step 2 above for gate valve details
Please have a look at step 1 above to see how it is all connected together.  I think you are asking 'How is the GATE valve connected to the pressure tank" and it is not connected.  The check valve is connected just below the pressure tank, please review step 1 above for details.
The pump does need to be below the water line to operate.  You will need at least 5 feet of fall to make gravity operate the pump. 

[yendis]

hi there! i love this idea! yet, i would REALLY appreciate more detailed instructions and photos. I live on a farm in South Africa. please email me at [e-mail] Kind regards