Instructables
Picture of the S3 semi automatic gun
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hey guys ! READ THIS PLEASE:
in a world where oblivitus and i have been working on the all mighty SA 3252 concept for ages and ages, i have finally managed to perfect a version of this all mighty creature with a bit of help from a new concept never before seen... i present to you, the biggest knex community in the world, THE SA 3252 V.S.3 (S3). combining the most complicated semi automatic revolving pin and stabilizing mechanism, as well as the amazing alternating trigger, as well as the brand new true trigger for the alternating trigger mechanism, as well as a compact, 5 layer package that gets well over 20 feet (remember it's a prototype semi automatic gun, so that's a lot). i would advise you all to neil before this majestic creature, for it will blow your mind. i give you now, the S3, a work in progress for over 6 months in collaboration with the fore father of the concept, oblivitus, about to have a completed, perfected version.

EDIT: here's my first video for it. i shot one shot, and explained a bit, please watch it through:

i was wrong in the last part of the video. it gets 30 feet right now (i tested it before i made a few mods to the gun. i modded the gun, made the video, and then tested it again, and it got a bit over 30 feet this time (inches)). i shot my cupboard from 4 feet away, and you could really hear the BANG, so... i'm also working on a way to make it stronger atm. dunno if it'll work, but i'm trying. that's the point of building a concept gun lol, isn't it, trying?


 here's a short video of the gun shooting 3 shots semi automatically:


here is another video of the new slide design meant to improve the efficiency of the gun. in the video i also showed the mechanism with one panel off and shot one shot at the end. it is very powerful, and gets a max 40 feet. so here it is:

LAST EDIT (PROBABLY): it's posted ! check it out.

please, do yourself a favor and RATE, COMMENT AND SUBSCRIBE !!! for more awesomeness.
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Now, finally I think I understand this. I should probably stick with less complicated guns...
Sharir1701 (author)  PotatoCoffee2 years ago
great! about designing less complicated guns, sure, i don't think there are many more concepts as complicated as this. it's the most complicated concept i've ever seen, that's for sure. but do you mean you also won't build other's complicated guns?
Well I would build them, it's just I'd have to understand them first.
Sharir1701 (author)  PotatoCoffee2 years ago
not necessarily. i think for this gun specifically the best way to understand is to see with your own eyes and play around with it. my videos being your guide, you could understand it better if you made it. anyway, are you making it?
Yes! If I have enough pieces, I might make a smaller version.
Sharir1701 (author)  PotatoCoffee2 years ago
Cool. Except for the stock area there's not much to compact in it, and the stock is like 70% hollow.
I've actualy just started! =P
Sharir1701 (author)  PotatoCoffee2 years ago
Good luck lol. When you finish if you'd like to comment with a picture of your gun, I'll add it to the intro.
Okay! It'll use the same mechanism (and that) but it won't look as large. =P
Sharir1701 (author)  PotatoCoffee2 years ago
good luck. like i said, comment with a picture...
innovanna2 years ago
How many bullets does it shoot? And is it powerful? Doesnt the power decrease for each bulet? Alot of questions i know but i just want to have a little idea of how it works. I think i get it but just wanna make sure.
Sharir1701 (author)  innovanna2 years ago
atm, i have the spool (rod with pin and crank, where band raps around), winding 7 turns, which is basically about 4 shots atm. the magazine i made for it holds 5 rounds. it gets around 30 feet on the first shot (watch the vids above). yes, it does become weaker after every shot, but i'm working on a way to fix that. i have a pretty good idea. check out the two images above with the massive front barrel. see the slide thing pulled forward by a band that's above the barrel? that concept, just beneath the stock is much better. i have it built, just need to test it now. if you don't understand how this would work, check out my mile-long comment i left for kinetic. and yes, i do believe you get it. watch the first video. it might help shave off any other doubts.
Yes thats what i thought. Looks good. I read that long message yesterday haha. But im glad u pulled this concept off. It seems to work great. And on that removable power source thing i have one built right now. It is eight shots and they shoot hard. Way better than my first one. Me and kinetic did it. We have two seperate guns to see which one you guys like better. I put more time into this one. There should be a slide show or instructable showing them both today so please take a look at it. Thanks!
Sharir1701 (author)  innovanna2 years ago
i don't understand what gun you are referring to. did you and kinetic also work on this concept or something? are you working with kinetic on something at all? anyway, great, i'd like to see that thing, so hurry up ! lol, no take your time.
Remember my failed removable psuedo mag that never took off? Yeah well i revisited and asked kinetic to work on it with me. Once i explained that design to him we both created different guns. Now we will show u them today or tommorow.
Sharir1701 (author)  innovanna2 years ago
wait, so it's a rubber band gun? i was beginning to worry i might have a big competitor. although what you did looks great and seems to be a great step forward for rubber band guns, i think rubber band guns are impractical. takes too long to load the bands, mag can't have a built in bullet stop, and for war, it just wastes way too many bands, because you can't find most of them. btw, i like the way the bands thing is on top... that's smart. also, it isn't exactly a power pack... well, not of the same sort you would ever use on my gun, anyway. it's a removable rubber band ratchet mech. what i would need for this is an entire spool and stop mechanism. so i'm not sure now that you fully understand how this gun works. i'm uploading a video later today that shows how the mechanism works with one panel off.
Dude u have no idea. This thing is realible. Kinetic will be posting pics of mine today or tommorow. I was at yellowstone so i coudnt send them to him. But i havent had one mess up with this set up yet. It does great in wars. And tne rubber bands will stay on the the mag so they arent flying at u. And i think i found a mag with a ramp so it can hold bullets and bands in one magazine. But ur gun looks good man. I can see how it works now. Nice job
Sharir1701 (author)  innovanna2 years ago
i was looking at this 'ible again just out of boredom and came across this comment, i guess i just missed it... anyway, yeah i know, my comment above was said out of lack of knowledge. there still are quite a few impractical things about rubber band guns, such as the loading time, but i was mistaken... your gun is awesome, just wanted to let you know. btw, when are you posting your's? and on the same subject, i will be posting this fairly soon, because i want the parts from it for another semi automatic concept i came up with inspired by something oblivitus told me. i also believe he will continue work on this to try and make it shoot yellow rods from a TR-18 turret. btw, my concept is probably gonna use something similar to your rubber band power pack (though mine will power a self cocking pin, instead of being a slingshot), so i'm also interested in seeing your's to compare and apply anything you've done better than me.
It fine man. I appreciate ur critisism. I will be posting it some time this week. Me and kinetic decided to let me finish the gun and post it. He needs a break from this for a little while. But i think i really set the new standard for the way rubber band slingers should be made. But i cant wait to see next semiauto. Im gonna step out of the knex semiauto stage because i have a great idea for a bolt action sling shot war gun. One pull of the bolt will load the band and the bullet so slings can now be used in a war.
Sharir1701 (author)  innovanna2 years ago
this is the comment i posted before:

looking forward to you posting the gun. so does that mean kinetic won't be posting his? i wanted to see both. that's a shame :( ... anyway, yeah, i agree you did raise the standard, but there will always be newbies posting unnecessary things that have already been done. there are still people posting (non replica) MR. T pin guns, and they're getting worse than ever. people will always post the old things that have way been perfected, simply because they lack the knowledge/confidence/ability/creativity/imagination etc etc. the S3 won't be posted as soon as i thought... i have two weeks now with my gf sleeping over (both parents out of town. they would never let us do this if they knew lol)(and lets hope for great things), and after that i have to finish up some of my school work for the vacation, and then i start school again. i think i will post it in the actual school year or by my next vacation (pretty soon after school starts). and i won't be getting much work on my new idea until i take the S3 apart, which won't happen until i post it... back to your comment, i think if you pull that idea off it would be great. there still are many repeater concepts (non semi auto, not one shot = repeater) that need exploration and/or haven't been thought of yet. they will always be more viable for war than any semi auto, so we do need to try and make them better in any means possible, but semi autos still are cool. i don't really know how you plan to do this, but if you pull it off, i will be a happy man.
Sharir1701 (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
i can update some of the stuff i said there:
i think i told you already that i built and modded kinetic's version. my gf's parents came back earlier than expected, so i had more time, and so i did post the S3 on schedule, as you know. i also told you i won't be working on my semi auto concept for now, since i have a better repeater concept i want to get finished before school starts. i'm still interested in that slingshot bolt action. also, i just wanna say that you guys definitely made the best semi auto gun to date, for the time being, MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. no seriously, it's awesome. but i would somehow see in to adding a rail to the bullet to make it accurate, since my gun is extremely inaccurate. i think i know how... i'll get back to you about that.
Ok sweet haha. But i already know how its going to work. And defiantly going to be the next gun i build. I promosed myself i would stop posting guns that people have already made, im gonna be one of the guys that builds something new. And with the rail thing, i tried that but dramaticly reduces speed. Unless u have a better idea. Thanks for all ur support and critisism. Ill take those ideas into consideration. And kimetic might post his gun he said. I gave him some tips on how to make it shoot more shots and his will probably be better. But its not on his list i dont think.
Sharir1701 (author)  innovanna2 years ago
what do you know how what is going to work? i'm glad you decided that, we really don't need any more guns that have been made a million times before... i don't think you understand what type of rail i mean. it shouldn't decrease any ranges as far as i'm concerned, but i'll check it out, put it on mine. really, kiMetic is going to post his? who's he, a new guy? lol no that's great. what tips did you give him? i want to know too, i have a kinno type gun built as well. btw, i think i keep getting your comments in delay, so for example if you post a comment at time "X", i will will be able to see the comment at time "X+5" or something. i say this because i was on this page about 30~40 minutes ago and posted a comment on raz1r's comment, and i didn't see your comment. this time i'm here i do see your comment as if it was posted before mine. it's just really weird... they're ruining our site.
Sharir1701 (author)  Sharir17012 years ago
mistake, i meant on your explanation page. and also, forgot to say i am also only able to see your comments later than i see other people's comments. i was able to see your comments only a few minutes ago, but it says they were posted like 16 hours ago (and i have been on the site). it also puts them before comments i already saw from other people because they are supposedly earlier. i don't get it... maybe you have a slow internet? are you in the states?
Yeah i live in the states. And i have really fast internet where im at so idk. But i guess i dont get what ur talking about. Kinetic tried to make it to where the bullet fit perfect in the barrel. U cant have that other wise it wont shoot well. And on the band mag u want to habe the bands start on top (as you seen) and end on the flywheel becuase the bands wont get stuck in the barrel. The way i have mine is perfect because they shoot the bullet good then exit the barrel and not fly back at you. Have a longer barrel because it will help with acuracy. Dont pit wheels on the sides of the flywheel in the mag because you can get 2 times more shots without them. Im sure u have most of these but just here if you forget haha. Im sure theres more but ive been on this project so long that its second nature. Haha
Sharir1701 (author)  innovanna2 years ago
idk, i guess it might just be a conflict between our users on the site's servers or something, it's really weird... i tried the rail thing, and i tried many different possibilities, everything that makes sense and works on other slingshot, but you were right. i think the problem is that the bullet is too short, and so it turns between each rail and hits the rail when it gets to it, thereby losing all it's speed several times. if you would make a longer bullet it might work. i'll give it a shot. about all that other stuff, yeah i know, i figured all those out, it's pretty simple physics really, but i thought you would have told him something else i didn't already know, but i guess not. and just from one innovator to another, i can definitely relate to what you're saying about the second nature thing. lol i understand almost everything there is to understand about the concept of the 3252 (S3); things that you couldn't understand from playing around with the gun for a very very long time. it's the most complicated concept i have ever tackled, seen or even heard of in knex. i couldn't even begin to explain it all because there's just so much, and it's not even conscious for me, it's just second nature. i can definitely relate to that.
Yeah so we are on the same page. Im going to have instructions of mine up today for the people who cant build it from other pics. But it is easy and fast for the most part. And i thought those were the rails u were talking about. Kinetic tried it and he learned the hard way to haha.
Sharir1701 (author)  innovanna2 years ago
once again, missed this comment, stupid notification system... anyhow, yeah i think you were thinking about the same thing, but i think it's still very possible if you make a longer bullet, like a brown con and a grey con. from what i can tell it's not friction that's ruining the shot, it's that the bullet doesn't go straight, because of the unstable nature of a slingshot, and the rails have gaps between them. the bullet just goes to the side and hits each rail on it's flight, each time taking away most if not all of it's speed. make a longer bullet that would keep straight, and also maybe don't make a bottom smooth "barrel" part in between the rails to reduce some more friction, and you could make working rails and make the gun much more accurate, and possibly stronger too, because of the higher caliber bullet. one of the reasons i hate grey con bullets is because they twist and turn during their flight, losing all accuracy and strength, and they're not aerodynamic because of that. they can never make very good long range weapons. add a brown con behind it though, and you've got yourself a winner. i might try that.
Its all good man haha. But yeah for the version 2 i agree with you on a different size bullet. And the rails as well. Version 2 will be alot better than this one. This one was a good start though. Tell me how those bullets work please. Thanks
Sharir1701 (author)  innovanna2 years ago
what do you mean how the bullets work? it's a 1-slot connector, green rod, brown connector. it would keep straight because it will always be engaged in the rails, unlike the grey con ammo that is small enough to move aside in the gaps between each rail. i think i will be posting, or at least making a slideshow of mine, because i think it's already better than both your's in comfortability and perhaps speed. my gun also works completely different, not sure if i told you... anyway, i'll try to make a good internal pusher mag for that bullet type, mod the gun to fit it, and add the rails the way i explained above. if all goes well, it should be pretty awesome. i'll let you know.
Sorry haha. But ok sounds great
tehknexdude2 years ago
Doesn't that slide thingy do the same thing as tying 2 rubber bands together? I mean, all it does is connect 2 bands together and add a little friction. Btw, the more bands you connect together, the less drop in range you'll see. If you use double the bands, each band will be unstretched half as far as they normally would on each shot, so after 3 shots, the bands would have double the tension in them than they would without doubling the amount of bands. That way you would see a less dramatic drop in range.
Sharir1701 (author)  tehknexdude2 years ago
first, you and oblivitus both make the mistake of not seeing how the slide is beneficial. i'm not gonna explain it again, but i'm just gonna say that it is beneficial, and what you can't see is that the slide is pulled back with 2 bands (stacked, not doubled), making for a much stronger pull back (i added the second band after taking the pics and videos), and that is different than just tying two bands together because tying two bands together the spread of tension is the same throughout the whole band, and this way the slide bands don't get stretched until you've cranked about 4 shots (up to then it's the same as just tying the band to the gun), but then it allows you to have more shots without losing too much strength in the later shots by moving forward. think of it like a crossbow. the limbs are what thrust it, right? think of the slide as a limb in the crossbow. it lets the bands stretch tighter and further.
second, thank you for the physics lesson, i really didn't know that tying two bands together makes it weaker. did it occur to you that the less bands you have the less shots you have? with 3 bands tied together being stretched the least they can at the beginning (without the slide) you only get about 3-4 shots.
third, i don't think you understand how this works. let me spell it out for you: it's not a pin gun or any other type of gun you've ever seen. seriously, learn how the gun works before posting comments like this. the "dramatic drop in range" is in the basic mechanism, and it has nothing to do with the amount of bands used, but with the tightness of the bands. that's where the slide comes in. listen: look at the pics, watch the third video, read the comments, and then come back and we'll talk. otherwise, you remain ignorant about this gun.
Woah there. I don't think u understood me either. I said that the more bands you have, or the longer the elastic is, the reduction in tension (in the rubber bands) after each time the spool gets unwound will be less. Maybe its just so obvious that you assumed I was talking about something else.
Sorry for sounding like an ignorant newb before, and I do have to admit I didn't fully understand the gun. Not anymore tho.
Anyways, even with two bands on the back half of the slide, the slide is just like an o ring u used to connect them. Unless I am missing something, you could achieve the same effect without it. If u don't believe me, go ahead and use it, I'm just trying to help ya out.
Sharir1701 (author)  tehknexdude2 years ago
alright then, forgotten. you and oblivitus are saying the exact same thing. i understand you both, but you're wrong. it's just something i can't explain in words apparently. it's not just an O ring... think of it like a sort of pivot between the tension of the two bands. the fact that it can stop at each side as well as spread the tension differently between the back 2 bands and the spool band is what causes it to be more than just an O ring. i thought the same thing when i had just made it, but i thought about it a bit more and realized what i said above (i might still not be explaining myself). in order to find out which was true, motivated by oblivitus' comments below of the same topic, i tried removing the slide and rail altogether and put a few more wheels where the slide was (i hope it's obvious why), and then tied two stacked bands to the spool band and put it on the stock the same way i put it on with the slide (i also experimented with stretching it some more and a bit less, just to be sure). i tested it, and i always got slightly weaker shots than with the slide, as well as 1 less shot, as well as a bigger reduction in range. with the slide the stats were 7 shots, 43-(about)10 feet, and without it the stats were 6 shots (barely), 31-4 feet. now don't think i based my decision solely upon this test, because it's obviously not a 100% reliable test, but seeing the differences and thinking about it a lot, i decided that (at least the way i see it) the slide is beneficial, and it boosts my shots and ranges, so even if it's not realistically beneficial, it helps me, so i kept it. i stand by the opinion that it is beneficial, and if anyone thinks otherwise they can just not build it on their gun (if they build the gun), or ignore it.
Hmm, that's odd. Well you've got to go with the system that works the best, don't put a different system on the gun just because it defies conventional logic. I still don't understand how it works to increase range, but apparently it does assuming there were no significant variables skewing the results in your test. This all makes me think that a whole series of different experiments with various elastics and blocks, and friction, etc. would be advantageous to pushing this system forward, until you've gotten to a point where you fully understand what's going on.
Sharir1701 (author)  Oblivitus2 years ago
it really is a lot simpler than you think. i repeat this sentence for the god knows what time, simply because it's probably the best simple explanation i can give as to why it works: tying two bands without the slide would make the spread of tension equal throughout the whole band. what the slide does is make the front (spool) band tighter than the back band at all times to gain more force of pullback in the same length. it is crucial to have much more band pressure pulling the slide back, but it works. and about your other comment, i got mad because he annoyed me. i do believe the slide concept works. since i apparently can't explain it, and i'm not sure if you would see what i see in it if you were to play around with it, allow me to refer to another mathematical problem, that while being in a completely different category, represents something similar. are you familiar with the montey hall problem? google it. most people don't and never will understand it, because the 50/50 answer seems more logical in a simpler way, but if you ignore what seems logical in a normal span, and really think of each individual part, you will understand that it is actually 66/33. just try to think about what i'm saying about the tension spread. while doing so, imagine the second example i gave of the limbs of a crossbow giving it that fling. just open mindedly think about it. i tried testing what you said with the same rubber bands exactly that i used on my slide. while i can't rule it out completely, like i said, because that test obviously doesn't 100% prove anything, i did open mindedly give your opinion a shot, and it failed for me, so think about what i said.
Okay, I looked up the monty hall problem, I understand it. And I understand what you are saying now about the individual parts making logical sense and not the whole as it relates to the problem, so although I still do not understand the physics, I am willing to accept that it may be due to lack of knowledge as I have not built your system and that the general logic of the monty hall problem may be the key to how it works.
Sharir1701 (author)  Oblivitus2 years ago
good, i'm glad this is settled then. did you see my instructions? i was eager to hear what you and kinetic had to say about the gun now you can see more in depth how it's built. both of you don't seem to be around as much as before... any reason for you?
You posted? That's great. I'm gonna look right now. See my other comments as to what I've been doing this summer.
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