Step 3: whats need to grind yer valves good"!

General directions for grinding valves on most engines with out expensive tools and with the know how to accomplish a very good job you will need a few simple things like
1.hand drill ( 300-400 rpm)is best
2. valve grinding compound
3. a glass or bowl of water
4. cleaner for parts ( carburetor spray helps)
5. oil or grease
6. paper towels or cotton clothe
7.Possibly a sheet of 180 carborundum wet /dry sandpaper
8. probably new valve stem seals
9. a lot of time if you are doing the whole head
10. may bey 2 hand drills can speed grinding
11. basic comprehension of physics involved
12. safety eye lenses 
 13. Awareness of which valves you intend to grind if not all
<p>I've been here before and made buhdieboy angry because I told folks his &quot;grinding technique&quot; is merely lapping valves and not preparing valve seats and valve faces correctly. Go to:SERDIMACHINES.com and see a real machine shops performance high quality valve seating machine.</p><p>buhdieboys &quot;process&quot; will achieve a TEMPORARY seal and a leak down rate of 8-15%. Meaning the engine will run but, it will be low on compression, and low on power It will have excessive fuel wasted due to inefficiency. Race engine leak down is less than 2% for 500 mile races. A $20 Auto-zone compression gauge is not a leak-down tester[Google for the real one]You need a shop compressor air to test correctly-You can also check piston ring seal with it to-Read an engine rebuilding book.</p><p>Hand lapping valves with a suction cup and a little watered down grinding paste using three to five twisting motions back and forth only shows that the valve and valve seats are MACHINED concentrically and uniformly contact the valves 45 degree seat angles.</p><p>You sure don't want to lap valves with a drill. Valve grinding compound is coarse even when watered down and it will pit the surface of the valve face and seat badly. Just use a magnifying glass on an old head and valve to see I am stating fact-See for yourself, and compare to a new valves smooth finish on seat face</p><p>Valve faces and seats must be smooth to seal tightly with surfaces that are machined like the Serdi produces with tooling.</p><p> buhdieboy will argue that his process &quot;works&quot; I will counter with facts, that my &quot;suggestion&quot; on reality is what every engine manufacturer and race winning shop in the world does.</p><p>Also, you cannot reproduce complex three angle or five angle seats with compounds in a drill. Not on a prayer. Be a winner or a backyard loser. buhdieboy 'aint no Smokey Yunick, Andy Granatelli, Jack Roush, or John Lingenfelter. Not by a long shot.</p><p>Go ahead buhdieboy; Send me another hateful private message.</p>
<p>READ ALL SECTIONS MUCH IS COVERD some will learn some will not</p>
<p>the thing is if your aluminum head motors the ones with seats ran good befor you had a proublem say a sliped timing belt or chain but now there vaves bent just get new valves and lap them in but if you suspect that a seat has droped then it would have acted funny and you will need anouther head to make matters sound very short the carborundom thing is only for highly aged heads that have warped seats from overheating (differant proublems folks pay attention!)</p>
<p>use a number two pencil to draw lines on valve seat on clean seat the insert clean valve into matching seat and twist the valve 1/4 inch only back and forth. If only half the lines are smeared then you have a misalinement of face to seat (understand?) if say 7/8ths of the lines are smeared simply grind some more then recheck it will most like grind out the old pencil line method will not lie </p>
Sorry <br>Using a drill is a really bad idea as it only rotates one direction. <br>It makes grooves in valve seat and face which wear real quick and make valve sink into head far more than necessary. You WILL need to do valve adjustments at frequent intervals and may run out of adjustment (particularly with shim adjusters rather than hydraulic adjusters - most OHC motors) <br>This may not be positive criticism but it could save someone the cost of a replacement cylinder head <br>Either buy an oscillating tool to use with drill or do lapping by hand
read the section on installed valve height bub
<p>i make motors talk k</p>
<p>there are some obvious dangers here you could knock your eye out with a valve keeper you could pinche yer finger you you could get the keepers in wrong and drop a valve through your mazaeradii .Of course sombodys going to over-grind something . Point is others wont!! just wear safety glasses when installing keepers and removing keepers</p>
<p>since crazypj isnt trying the dril metode he seems to know a lot about how it dosnt work al i an say is when hese doing valves he can d them anyway he wants seems like he knows about some things coming back okay could be a problem but it wasnt mine i got happy people with fine motors i still reaffirm what works and how you do it or redo it i crazypjs post psssst&quot;in notgoing to leave my valves bunt tp please him or his budget boys gonna keep doin what works . Examplesome caries an expensive peice o funiture through a doorway and gets no scratches good! another time someone scratches the stuff its all how they do it do you get my point ?</p>
try it youl like it i thought the same thing but after several jobs and it working fine i was convinced now if you feel otherwise then get the little sucktion cup thingey as also show and some water you will have to sand the valve head were it sticks to . it will take a long time if the valves are really burt so its a waist of time where most people get ther wear is befor they grind and being burt dude think about it its got to be dune if there going to get ground a machine shops stones dont reciprecate the are like a drill spin in a circle so not to worry the folks her with your dogma please
re-facing a valve with a valve re-facer is totally different to lapping <br>It isn't dogma but experience. <br>You also need to check valve seat width as too wide can be an issue because the seat pressure may be too low to clean seat after a few months. <br>It's a problem with cruiser style motorcycles when they only get used at low speeds, several manufacturers make carbon cleaning additives to put in fuel <br>There are also many valves that cannot be lapped due to their construction (tufrided valves only have a few thousandths of inch surface hardening, exhaust valves may have sprayed on Stellite coating) <br> Harley Davidson use a real good quality stainless steel (or at least they did up until 2008, no experience with them after that)
I'm sorry you don't like my criticism, I know about installed heights, been working on high speed engines since 1969 and in 'bike shops' since 1978 <br>I taught engine machining and rebuilding for almost 4 yrs (as an instructor) and I have been service manager at various motorcycle dealerships. (Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, BMW, Triumph, et.al.) <br>I'm pointing out things I know from experience as I've seen people 'cutting corners' for years trying to get work done faster which is fine when it works but is real annoying when bikes come back for 'free' repairs when things were not done properly first time around
think about this one man carries a tv set though a doorway he makes it unscathed another man carries at set through a door way and scratches it!... its all about getting the set indoors where he can use it.<br> My method works for me the wonders are here for you to see i certainly am not going to run burned valves like thats just rediculous<br> to even suggest . Maybe crazypj has goofed his arrangement but he hasnt goofed mine those of you who can appreciate this can see.
Will this work on alum heads?
obviously yess as aluminum heads have steel seats i need to do a chapter on the specifics of aluminum head peculiaritys, if you had overheating problems you will most likely need to have head pressure checked at a machine shop and have it milled levil otherwise you may be waisting your time but if you have the time too gamble th 70- 80 dollars for pressure checks and milling then go for it i have several times its been a 60/40 win loose or temporary fix toss up, also what differeces are you looking at from normal pressure for the given engine if you say? you have dropped (lower) 40 lbs on certain cylinders but have normal compression reading on 2 or more cylinders this says something to the expeirianced mechanic it indicates a bent valve or badly burnt valve (rarely seat)or a crooked or dropped seat or a stuck (ie bent or rusted)valve agin\ain much of what you will expect to find depends on the outher valve components its not impossible for the valves to be to tight on the lash or set wrong these are things experiance and familiarity will teach most importently beware especially on certain v-6 engs if the manual say set the engine piston #1 to some position outher then TDC or you will bend a valve when you bolt a head down but many cars you will need too set your timing marks on the head to the pictured position in manual the set the crankshaft to the normal marked position (most engs TDC*)before tightening the head bolts
I had a broke timing belt on an interference engine. Only two pistons had compression (180lbs+). Took the heads off, 8 bent exhaust valves that I could identify. Thanks for the insight but I just broke down and took them to a machine shop for testing and a valve patch job. In order to install he heads on this application, it says to set the crank to tdc then turn the crank counter clock wise 3 notches to install without more valve damage. Then once everything is installed put the crank on its mark as well as the cams and put the timing belt on. Does this sound right to you? this is my first head job.
probably ok with that f you know to turn crank back in reverse direction and most motors your going to be good with TDC no one up but a few odballs like maxima v6 it has to be bune at the timeing makes that are not tdc or you would bend it not knowing its different is a no no . If your uncertain turn over head cams i head till there on base circle center no one look at the head cam gear mark isnt it in place ? most like ly ok then your good for tdc no 1 <br>
180 lbs is funny to high for a reg street engine has something spliedinto those cylinders i would expect 85 to 130 140 outside depending on cc and year your gauge may be off it used to be if a car had 90 it wasnt likely to start without pulling , pushing it 30 mph but some nissans got low cranking comps like 70-80! i guess its a tricky area oin that model most engines where expecting upward of 95psi. and more in general @cranking speed one thing here is always disconect the coil plug or wires befor testing comp if youi dont it may dammage your guage folks
The point about disabling the ignition while cranking is well taken. Push starting? Why? If it won't start call the tow truck to take it to an actual mechanic not a parts swapper.
have you checked the demi john you have been breathing from no self respecting servicman would ever be without a good push /pull to start a car in norther regions or one with dirt or rust debrie on the valves this way it cranks faster opposeing what is hither know as contaminant leak down fool!
Basic check for warped alloy head is a straight edge and feeler guage. More advanced test would be a crack check using dye. Why not resurface the head to restore proper mating surface to gasket and the block? Low buck approach creates a vast inventory for the auto recycling business. Why do above board legit dealerships and manufacturers require service technicians to continue their education throughout their careers? To &quot;fix&quot; backyard repair failures.
you can reuse a fel pro gasket if your head is warped enough to leak after tighening or fron cracks in the exhaust area some smallcracks sometimes are possibly aceptable but not in general it would depend not everybody isloade dwith money along with there egos duh
aving watched humphry bogart weld a steam boat propellor in the middle of a jungle i somehow think he would have busted your punk Azz jaw
I like this idea a lot better, could be real handy when doing a lot of valves, V-8 or 4 valve/cyl motors
Hi, thanks a lot for this guide I really appreciate it.
yesterday i had to check a freinds truck out it had unuseuale symptoms as the motor seemed to have all the correct requirments to start . That is, it had compreesion ,spark ,and distribution of spark ,plus fuel in the correct&nbsp; amounts....&nbsp; that is what the symtoms were ! thare was unburned raw gas on the plugs... thar was spark present at the wires at each cylinder ( i checked) . thar was only 92 lbs compression ( ?) a little low but i dont know what it got befor it quit running. Well heres what i figger happend and why expeiriance tells me that a car with compresion useually 100 lbs and with enough spark presnt at 10 BTDC&nbsp; ( befor top dead center) has to start uless its flooded or not getting gas . basically i took the time to do a simple test but need more testing AS WE DID NOT GET IT RUNNING ... BUT THINGS BEING THINGS I CAN SAY EVEN THOUGH THE&nbsp; ignition spark is proubably hot enough&nbsp;:<br /> &nbsp; More than likely the timing chain has slipped&nbsp;a few&nbsp;degrees out of sync that would make it have&nbsp;fair compression but still be fireing out of time (maybe even fireing on exhaust stroke)&nbsp;because this is a mechanically distributed engine . <br /> &nbsp; so im going to have to check to see if&nbsp; so were going to have to get a timeing&nbsp; gear set and install The point here is the unburned gas wet plugs are&nbsp; the clue to arise suspician mostly because the engine is fuel injected<br /> &nbsp;&nbsp; next week-end......&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; thanks<br /> &nbsp;&nbsp; It could have bent some valves&quot;. but sometimes it doesent (strange)
Your &quot;engine assembly&quot; tips or snippets on life's experience like not dropping valve keepers in the dirt are those of a wise old sage. Blissfully staring teary eyed at the shovel head back in the frame after picking it up from my(or another qualified individual)s establishment after having been thoroughly restored to spec and rebalanced. You remind me of a man assisted on the Hi-way once. I loosened an -AN line off my BG Dominator and hit the fuel pump switch and filled a big gulp cup he had found on the side of the road. This sure did help Mr. down'nout to get his AMF down the road and back to the ol'lady. Cheers!
I am going to mention the GM engine 2.4 liter as it is a very difficult engine to remove a head from .The tennessee built engine used in chevys and pontiacs can and does break valves compleatly off , that can cause dammage to the piston/ pistons and rings . If you have a 2.4 engine dont alow the timeing chain to become worn and slip or you may need to change the whole motor . Besides possibly ruining the pistons or block the head is bolted to the block and timing cover with so many hard to find bolts as to be extremely hard to<br> remove the head from the rest of the engine .so its a lot easier just to chainge the chain befor it slips as you will only need to remove the timeing chain cover <br> to chainge the stretched timeing chain...and align gear marks i think you use 2 drill bits or bolts to locate the gears as they have holes drilled to stick the bits into as this is the location method for the 2 top cam gears also paint marks can be used it <br> you are precise enough with the releation of the upper and lower gears
I live in Texas...I know people in Tennessee, and that has nothing to do with the GM 2.4. I am assuming you are referring to the Quad 4? A GM owners forum like J-body.org has a lot of information on this engine, and what not to do. As well intentioned as your advice seems to be you are setting some up people for failure with generalizations and leaving out key points. Perhaps the very minimum would be for someone to visit the Public library and read a Motor manual or Chilton service manual in the reference section. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing in the engine service world and empires like Auto zone and Napa have been built on lack of research before knowing what you are getting into.
point is rudo ? too too uh mention nearly no engines break valves off and eat them i can name 30 models and they will not break a valve but the gm 2.4 does also an international 394 will snap a valve if over reveved very easily just goes to show who actually works on valves by the way did anouther acura head today
His entire premise for this &quot;how to&quot; is based on whether or not a $20.00 dollar compression tester indicates a difference greater than 20%. I will give him that. Evidently someone told him, or he read it somewhere. I prefer a cylinder leak-down test. (Requires an air compressor and the leak-down tester, Summit racing or Jeggs.) This would indicate if it was valves or seats or piston rings or even a blown head gasket that was making the engine run badly. Schools in Buhdieboy!: When performing a leak-down test...If you hear air escaping into intake port with the cylinder at TDC intake valve and/or seat is to blame. same goes with exhaust valve. If air is heard escaping into block it indicates blow-by past the rings. Head Gasket leak could allow air into block or into cooling system. look for bubbles in the radiator coolant. Look at my other comment about 'Grinding the valves' before you perform destruction that this man has outlined here. Certified engine overhaul specialist since 1982.
befor thaer where words there were brains and with these brains came since so how is it to familiearize your self with perameters like volume i personally have stuck my finger into a spark plug hole and allowed compression to blow my finger off the hole if it will not then hey gues what u HAV LEAKDOWN WAHHH
Please disregard much of what this guy has written for &quot;grinding' your valves. in essence what he is describing is a &quot;lapping' process for final verification that the valve face and it's seat are concentric. <br>He is not telling you that the OEM valve job has a minimum of three angles, which you cannot reproduce with your drill. This is on both the valve and the seat on the head. he is not explaining that the valve guides may be worn and will not allow the valve to remain in position as it moves up and down. again a valve guide machine is needed to replace worn guides, or knurling the guides (specialized equipment needed again) as a cheapo fix or if a replacement guide is not available. Another bad thing in his 'Instructable&quot; is not mentioning that with his &quot;process&quot; (ahem, cough, cough) you are sinking the valve further into the head by grinding it's face and the seat. This is going to change: the installed height of the valve, and even the seat pressure of the springs unless the proper shims are put in under the springs. and BTW this is regardless of if your engine is push rods or overhead cams. It's a couple of hundred bucks to have valves seats and guides done by a competent machine shop and you can Buzz your motor near the Cam companies suggested redline all the time if you have good valve springs. or you can follow his recommendations and be dropping your oil pan to see all the bits of metal that have found there way into your lubrication system. Go ahead and flirt with disaster on this guys advice. Certified in engine overhaul since 1982, so I know a little bit about it.
please hide in the ladys room while the rest of us get on to takin care of bizness lol&quot; <br> this is another chance to suggest putting wax paper over the valves and let the hight tips stick through if there is a higer one simply use a small grind stone or a 4 inch grinder to fuzz a little of fthe stem end to corrrect the stem hight its only nessesesay to do this for solid lifter engines or ones with disc adjusters to keep from bying thinner lifet discs and yess it does work for years to come try again!
chaiged my first head in 1975 inside a van in front of my parrents house ground my first valve in 1980 out behind my house and by the way people used to grind T model valves with creek water sand as abrasive
The thing is, my engine has almost NONE of these parts.
if you use the drills to face the valves(for&nbsp;pitted burnt vaves)&nbsp;you will still have to lap grind them to the head seat ok understand? this is to help the vavle grinding easier ok see pics&quot;!
make no mistake: this is not a liturary school&quot; &nbsp;what i am teaching hear makes use of common sense expeiriance something not useually teachable but must be learned by doing it is ( mechanics&nbsp; a cold hard and calculated expeiriance most of you will not find it pleasant but a few motivated individules may find there lives are now headed in this direction<br /> &nbsp; thanks for reading and please understand&nbsp; that i hope you can acheive <br /> &nbsp;&nbsp; something better then i have in life&quot;
dont drop the valve keepers on the ground if your outside please do this on a smooth surface if they fall in the dirt there gone you will likely have to get a replacement pair
do not i repeat do not forget to tighten your cam bolt after you get the 2 or 3 marks right i have dune this twice and once i had to get anouther cam and gear plus 8 valves and a day and a halfs work needless to say i looked like stupid it wasnt my car
when alighning timeing marks !long as the crank (only when first installing head) is like 25o from the top for#1 piston on any 4 (and most 6&8)cylinder most importantly no valves will hit regardless but do not move the to shafts very far to bring to respective timeing marks ?ok? in fact disconect the battery , move the cam / crank or no cams position by hand.. Heads where the cams(removeable caped cams) are removed from the head obviousely the cam caps should only be tighted in the correct position when lowering the tdc center on about any eng use the same distance of around 25o tdc #1 ..clockwise i always then(2) tightn the head then imediatly(3) poisition(have in place?) the cam gear! temporaryily! or without the belt .. the imeadiatly turn the crank the counterclockwise 25o(4) back to top thats the way i do it & a good habbit to form . leaving your battery cables loose can prevent accidental movement after this its nessesary to install any belt idlers soemtimes backplates ect (waterpumps?)then positioning the belt tensioners is sometimes automatically dun by looseing the tensioner outher wise a pry tool or wrench for some the tensioner is turned to rotate tighter or prised to a tighter position the best policy is do not have the belt bango string tight it will fail from this faster then being moderately tight ok if you push against the belt on say a point away from any gear or cog it should take about 10 lbs of thumb pressur to deflect it say 1/4 " -1/8 if with the 10lbs the belt deflect only 1/16" its too tight ok thats the best i can discribe how to check tightness some times the old belt can be reused its not recomended not so if its defective (broken) the older the belt set its tightness looser do not mistakenly tighten any wires or vacume hoses in between the head and eng use a small compact mirror to look and also for looking at the marks on cam gear hold the mirror 45o and about 3 inches in frnt of the marks if you cansee the marks with a mirror then just forget this hint after tightening the belt rotate the engine recheck the belt tension did it change? ok check the marks on head and on the crank cog has either sliped or in the wrong place if so re adjust either setting till thar right retest again listen !when moveing or tighening cam bolts clamp cam at spot away from lobes or journals use vise grips or pipe wrench beware small metal chips and dont rest wrenc aginst any valve ends period use air wrench if you can to remove sometimes bolts to tight
Some of my evil friends... Taught me how to leak test the newly seated valve, was to pour a little petrol into the port, and given the low specific (something or other) of the fuel, if the valve was sealing correctly (assuming good vale guide and stem clearances etc), that there would not be any leakage or wicking of the fuel through the seated valve. i.e. - It's a gas tight seal.
testing the valves for proper seating is possible if you seats are so hard in aluminum heads if the are worn or warped in the head it will be difficult for a novice to manage but i have discribed a way to acheive a fix remember more then likely your proublem will be on(certain) the exhaust valve/s tharby reduceiing some of the concerns for the aluminum heads intake seats i said more than likely so..with cast seats remeber the intakes are way more vulnerable to pitting if the motor set or had high milliage... anyway!
you could use diamond lapping film cut as discribed for the 3m product it would need to be 45 micron or 60 micron grade (only for proublem/crooked seats) and expensine 10.00 for 1 3x6" peice
buddieboy says if you can also order diamond lapping film in 45 micron grade or maybe 60 micron then it would be expensive but no doubt would help with the defective hard v seats issues where applicable but not often nessesary (proublem seats only)
Wet/Dry Sheets Silicon Carbide' paper backed sheets. is equal to the mentioned carborundom ok" buhdieboy
Looks great. But do you have to use only Carborundum paper? What about 3M. I cannot find this paper anywhere and everyone I talk to says its just a name brand that is hard to find.
Wet/Dry Sheets Silicon Carbide paper backed sheets. at automotive store yes (use for discribed method of squaring) for harded seats only this step not for cast seats nessesarily also lawnmovers have harded seats too ok? valves still require valve lapping after this seat squaring idea"
sombodys going to say " reciprocating but expeiriace tells thar wasnt noticable differance .And also on the final finish grind allow the v.compound to become more worn by not changing it and the cut will be smoothest
thanks gorillazmiko at last 1 comment ive been waiting for not that anybody needs to go back to school but this was my first attempt at publishing ... and i must say exciteing ! I wont sing thou" lol

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