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Challenge for all you ringers Answered

Not sure if anyone has posted something that could do this, but I did a couple searches and gave up. I challenge someone to rig up something that can remove those clothing store security tags or deactivate whatever sets off the alarm

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Lextone (author)2007-05-01

You guys way over think this stuff. Its easy to remove a security tag, a pair of vise grips and a heavy pair of side cutters. Crack the back side with the pin apart, snip the crown off and slide it out. So if you really work for the company that makes these things, tell them they suck and need much improvement from material and design to the retailers using them correctly. You guys really want to make them fool proof use a harder plastic and have a dye pack on both sides of the garment and make it bigger so that the clerk will see it and remove it. Also have them actually set off an alarm. Retailers like to tuck them away and miss them. You walk out and no alarm sounds. If you try to take it back to get the tag removed, with a receipt, they think you stole it. Been there, been accused...not fun...

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erckgillis (author)2007-04-30

Guys if in doupt here just talk improving the products and NOT bypassing it...i.e.

Slevin, I'm familiar with the "magnet" issue. A more complex magnet polarity is much harder to replicate and defeat. The Half moon or the Dounut shaped magnet can have four different orientiations and two different polarities. In combinations this can be incredibly hard to disengage. Bypassing would require getting samples as we cannot tell without samples and extended testing which polarity and orientiation is in use. It's even much harder to replicate the matching magnet(s) without custom orders. Any such attempts can be traced and purchasers prosecuted.

Further difficulty & store flexibility can be obtained by adding multi-Pin, with push & pull magnet locks. So that some magnets require LIKE polarity to disegnage while other pins require OPPOSITE polarity to disengage. Or NO CHANGE to free the pin.

Allowing store owners to change quickly any combinations of spoofing without changing the tags themselves.

These magnets can be custom configured and ordered in bulk. See http://www.magnetcity.net/images/Polarity1.jpg

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gmoon (author)2007-04-29

A real company representative (one who's paid to deal with the public, as this person claims) would never be so thin-skinned as to insult persons in a public forum. After all--at some point his boss would read this!

For example, just look at the responses of 'instructable' staff--they may caution members at times, but never resort to phrases like complete loser or mommy's boys. If this guy isn't a troll, he's about to lose his job due to gross unprofessionalism.

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FrenchCrawler (author)2007-04-28

Seems odd that a new member would ask a question like this, and then say that they work for a company that designs and improves the flaws (which company is this again? Since there's so many different designs, we would want to make sure to try and trick the correct company's products). Also a nice user name "Lucky Number Slevin" which if I recall correctly was about fixing horse races, murder, deceit, etc. Another thing... why would you ask us to try (and possible get arrested) to trick the devices, if your company doesn't want things like that on the web for everyone to see? I know of a hundred ways (I haven't tested, but they would work) of getting past/around those devices, but I'm not about to help a thief steal from a store. Want to figure out some ways... just watch a few episodes of Mythbusters. "I am under instruction to do constant web scans to see if anything such as this exists for everyone to see." By the way... I don't think you're being paid to just search and give up....

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slevin711 (author)FrenchCrawler2007-04-29

Allright smart guy, try listening to yourself when you talk and attempt to stay on topic after this post. I already said my name is not anonymous but a simple personal name. Good job on figuring which movie I enjoy, Ashton Kutcher is an actor that I enjoy. This movie has nothing to do with how I go about my life. Also, just because you are pointing out a flaw in a product will in no way get you arrested. Many flaws have already been pointed out on the internet for everyone to see, so there is nothing my company can do to stop this. We can only improve our product, and before we do this, we collect all knowledge fabout why our previous product failed. I did not give up pal. Just because I am not a complete loser such as you waiting for the next person to post just because you have no life is not my concern, but don't spread your self-developed plague.

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FrenchCrawler (author)slevin7112007-04-29

Check the time/date stamps on the right.... I posted before trebuchet, therefore I was still on topic.

Also, you asked us to "rig up something that can remove those clothing store security tags or deactivate whatever sets off the alarm" (Do you mean Ink Tags, Hard Security Tags, or what?) which, in my opinion, means you wish for us to go into a store and try to figure out a way to remove those tags.

If you've done this before, you'd know how to access the warez sites as LasVegas and jtobako pointed out.

"I did a couple searches and gave up"
So what is the true meaning of this sentence then? In English it says you gave up, but I guess English must be your second (or perhaps third?) language.

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jtobako (author)2007-04-29

If you want to look (fake) professional, watch your spelling, watch your attitude, and don't ask others to do your work for you. Some how, I doubt that someone looking into product security wouldn't know what 'warez' are, or would give out (real or fake) instructions on bypassing them.

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slevin711 (author)2007-04-28

all right, any none mommy's boys out there?? no offense, trebuchet03 and fungus amungus, but I work for a company that designs these type of items (security tags, not thief riggers) and I am under instruction to do constant web scans to see if anything such as this exists for everyone to see.

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trebuchet03 (author)slevin7112007-04-29

I see... so you're asking us to do your job? As fungus said -- there's no way for us to verify this :/ I had a similar job awhile back.... My instructions were similar, except I wasn't allowed to be active, unless a flaw was discovered (then I I could go forth and discuss anonymously). Making the public aware that the mfr. is actively seeking flaws can lead to some pretty terrible press. You don't get that in open source DIY settings, but not likely in the antishoplifting scene...

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slevin711 (author)trebuchet032007-04-29

Ok, first of all, this is my job. To search the internet through forums and gain knowledge about product flaws. So essentially, I am doing my job. Second, flaws have been pointed out in this product. I am allowed to be active when a flaw is discovered, just like you were. It is not required to be anonymous, what difference does it really make whether I am anonymous or not if you guys are not supporters of shoplifters. One major flaw in our current product is the vulnerability to a extended magnet. On many models, you can simply put medium powered magnet close to the pin and insertion hole and with a little strength, release the pin.

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trebuchet03 (author)slevin7112007-04-29

what difference does it really make whether I am anonymous or not if you guys are not supporters of shoplifters.

No offense, but that's why someone else makes that call... Because the customers of the product are also not supporters of shoplifting... And if I were a customer wanting to buy a few hundred thousand of these, I really don't want to see the company looking for flaws this way. It just doesn't give me that feeling of confidence in the billion dollar antishoplifting device market :/ That is why I was instructed to go about my job the way I did and is also the same reason I had to sign a confidentiality contract :p

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user

Also, if someone knows how, and you say you're someone who will get the flaw fixed, why would they tell you, if they intend to use it?

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fungus amungus (author)slevin7112007-04-28

I don't understand your "none mommy's boys" statement so no offense taken. It would've helped if you stated your intent in the beginning since someone asking for help stealing with a brand new account is ripe for ridicule. And still, there's no way to tell if your story is true.

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user

What do you guys do if there is something out there? I mean, having the knowledge out is perfectly legal, just not plotting to use it/using it. Do you just redesign them to avoid it? (not that i know how)

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user

more or less, yes we may re-desing the product. It's more of seeing what flaws we have in our product and perfecting it to serve a purpose.

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user

Yes I'm sure you do, let's see RFid, hmmm, you really need to speak to Michael Faraday, he knows a thing or two about this.

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Brennn10 (author)2007-04-28

Now why would you want to make something of this nature? You don't want to steal anything do you?

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slevin711 (author)Brennn102007-04-29

More along the lines of preventing my friend.

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LasVegas (author)2007-04-28

This is not really the forum to post your query. We tend to chase out those that think this type of behavior is appropriate. I suggest posting in warez areas of the Usenet where posters are truly anonymous.

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slevin711 (author)LasVegas2007-04-28

please direct me towards an area that may be deemed appropriate then sir

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LasVegas (author)slevin7112007-04-28

As I said... Any "warez" type discussion group on the Usenet. If you're not familiar with how to access the Usenet, start by asking your Internet Provider or System Administrator. BTW: There's a good chance that your Mail reader will also act as a Usenet Reader.

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fungus amungus (author)2007-04-28

I usually try sliding a credit card through a slot. Worked every time so far.

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trebuchet03 (author)2007-04-28

Here's what I do.... I go to the register, barter with some money, and the person behind the register does it for me! How nice of them :)

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