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Commandments of Knex guns. Answered

1. All guns shall be 6 layers or less

2. All magazine fed guns must be bolt action. I mean come on this is 2013 we've seen enough basic mag guns.

3. Removable magazines must have an internal pusher, closed top, and actually lock into the gun and not just use friction to stay in.

4. Only shoot normal rods, oodammo, or fin ammo. Connector ammo is a giant no no.

5. Big stocks are the greatest sin. A stock should be the right length and be sturdy. Do not make some piece sucking monstrosity. No it's not more comfortable.

6. Be as piece efficient as possible. Don't make the gun bigger than it has to be.

7. Use a pin guide. Always and forever.

8. No tape can be used on the gun except on the pin.

9. Avoid cut parts if possible. Your gun had better do something different or special for it to have cut parts.

10. Have an angled grip. Always.

These are in no order.  Just follow them.

50 Replies

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ZakS (author)2013-08-23

Bro so you run xc and track yeah? What are your PRs kid.

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TheRacker (author)ZakS2013-08-23

XC last year I ran ~20 minutes, and in track I do 110 and 300 hurdles, which I got 17.34 and 46.45 respectively. Nothing amazing. But I do plan on doing well this upcoming season in hurdles, I want to break 16.5 and 43 seconds. XC I just do for fun and cardio shape. No way I'll ever be placing in that.

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ZakS (author)TheRacker2013-08-23

o cool d00d i run 16:30 and 4:38 for the mile

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ZakS (author)didexo2013-08-24

yeah as a freshman. i got a lil slow

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TheRacker (author)ZakS2013-08-24

You didn't improve from freshman year?

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ZakS (author)TheRacker2013-08-24

Didn't do track my sophomore year, and broke my collar bone as a junior during track season. Hopefully this year lols.

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TheRacker (author)ZakS2013-08-25

Dude that sucks. And wow 4:38 freshman year, that's faster than our schools freshman record(4:43 or so).

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ZakS (author)TheRacker2013-08-25

Our freshman record is 4:35. My friend, an upcoming senior (our grade) ran 4:16 and 9:19 for the 2mile last year haha.

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TheRacker (author)ZakS2013-08-25

Geez. Our 2 mile is about that too I believe. We had a senior last year almost break it, but not quite. I think it will be broken though by either this one junior who set our freshman record when he was a freshman, or a sophomore who beat said junior's freshman record. Meanwhile I'm here just doing track and XC for fun without winning anything haha.

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TheRacker (author)ZakS2013-08-23

Nice. Are you a senior this year?

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TheRacker (author)ZakS2013-08-23

Oh cool same. Cross country so far this year is tons of fun, even though I'm out of shape haha.

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DarkOwlProductions (author)2013-08-24

Racker, I don't partake in this religion.

That sentence could've replaced everybody's long, listed rebuttals. :3

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I love the discussion though.

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Yes, it is very interesting to see the people that break these commandments start to argue. I must say, though: most of these are your opinions, but they are very good guidelines to build a gun, but they are also sort of limiting. It depends on what you're going for.

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Here is my "in-depth" take on some of these, I would love to hear some responses.

1. All guns shall be 6 layers or less

First off... why? Why is this a "rule?" It makes no sense to make this a rule, its mumbo-jumbo. Its just your opinion...

2. All magazine fed guns must be bolt action. I mean come on this is 2013 we've seen enough basic mag guns.

Again, why? I have seen some mag fed guns perform just as well, if not better, than bolt action guns. Basic mag guns are timeless, I doubt that they will ever stop being posted. Again, your opinion.

3. Removable magazines must have an internal pusher, closed top, and actually lock into the gun and not just use friction to stay in.

Actually, I prefer EMP (External Magazine Pushers), as opposed to IMP. As always, just your opinion.

4. Only shoot normal rods, oodammo, or fin ammo. Connector ammo is a giant no no.

Heh, heh, no way. I LOVE connecter ammo. Again, just your opinion. (I think it preforms better too) I have had mag fed dark grey one slot connecter ammo guns that have shot farther than my TR8 or the ZKAR...

5. Big stocks are the greatest sin. A stock should be the right length and be sturdy. Do not make some piece sucking monstrosity. No it's not more comfortable.

Hey, if you have the pieces, why not? XD, and yes, it is more comfortable.

6. Be as piece efficient as possible. Don't make the gun bigger than it has to be.

I kinda agree with this... kinda.

7. Use a pin guide. Always and forever.

No way Hosea. I have yet to find that pin guides make a gun better in any way... They also take away from the looks.

8. No tape can be used on the gun except on the pin.

Again, why? Give me a good reason.

9. Avoid cut parts if possible. Your gun had better do something different or special for it to have cut parts.

As always... why? I try not to use them if I don't have to, but they are still useful.

10. Have an angled grip. Always.

Meh, whatever.

Most of these "commandments" are just opinions, and unless you are going to share your opinions in a courteous manner, nobody cares. =D

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1. They are just fat and suck up pieces, and I have yet to see something special done with a gun that wide besides the knexsayer.

2. Why keep posting the same old stuff everyone has seen a million times since 2009? It gets boring. And if you build it right they are much better.

3. Why is an external one any better? It makes the mag unwieldy and ugly, as well as not being actually any better.

4. You break connectors with connector ammo. Rods are much stronger and can be shot harder. And we all know something was wrong with your TR8, mine shoots 250+ feet with 7 bands and fin ammo.

5. It's an ugly waste that makes the gun heavy.

7. They help so much. Guns without pin guides have the ram tugging left or right or up or down. It also allows for more rubber bands to be put on the pin without the fear of it bending or snapping.

8. It's cheating. If you can't figure out a connection, why resort to something that isn't knex?

9. Same thing, but at least cut parts are still actually knex.

10. More comfortable.

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1. They are just fat and suck up pieces, and I have yet to see something special done with a gun that wide besides the knexsayer.

Yup, just your opinion.

2. Why keep posting the same old stuff everyone has seen a million times since 2009? It gets boring. And if you build it right they are much better.

I don't see very many things posted here on 'ibles that are just the same as other things...

3. Why is an external one any better? It makes the mag unwieldy and ugly, as well as not being actually any better.

I might make a forum topic on it, as it would be WAY to long to explain here. Personal preference anywho.

4. You break connectors with connector ammo. Rods are much stronger and can be shot harder. And we all know something was wrong with your TR8, mine shoots 250+ feet with 7 bands and fin ammo.

I don't often (if ever) break my connecter ammo when shooting...

5. It's an ugly waste that makes the gun heavy.

Not really, and again, personal preference.

7. They help so much. Guns without pin guides have the ram tugging left or right or up or down. It also allows for more rubber bands to be put on the pin without the fear of it bending or snapping.

Not really, again and again, personal preference.

8. It's cheating. If you can't figure out a connection, why resort to something that isn't knex?

Not really, you really can't "cheat" at K'NEX. THEY ARE ONLY A TOY! SERIOUSLY...

9. Same thing, but at least cut parts are still actually knex.

Again, you can't cheat at a toy...

10. More comfortable.

I guess I agree with you, but again, personal preference.

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1. You haven't given a counter example. Show me a gun that is 7 layers that does something considerably better than a 5 layer gun could. This doesn't include novelty guns.

2. I mean the same basic thing. There are too many guns that have a simple mag and trigger that do nothing functionally different from 3 dozen guns posted before it. Cool you made a gun that feeds rods into an area that a pin hits. So did these other 150 people before you. It gets old.

3. Ok have fun.

4. You aren't using enough rubber bands. I cracked many grey connectors with my KG-5 back in the day. After about 10 broken ones I realized that connector ammo isn't the best for high power guns.

5. Ok if you really want to do that sure. Go ahead.

7. Nothing personal preference about this. You can't load up pistols like you can full guns with bands because of this. The bands don't apply perfectly straight force onto the pin, and so it will either bed up or down and cause lots of friction in the barrel, or even snap. A pin guide stabilizes and strengthens the pin for more bands.

8. It's part of the challenge to make something that works with just knex. Why not just go out and use wood to make a gun that shoots dowels and then compare it to knex guns? It's the principal of the matter.

9. Same as above.

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(This is going to be my last comment reply, so if you respond in detail, you might as well not expect and answer. XD)


1. You haven't given a counter example. Show me a gun that is 7 layers that does something considerably better than a 5 layer gun could. This doesn't include novelty guns.

The reason why I have not given you any examples is because I have not said anything against this rule other than it is just your opinion. =D

2. I mean the same basic thing. There are too many guns that have a simple mag and trigger that do nothing functionally different from 3 dozen guns posted before it. Cool you made a gun that feeds rods into an area that a pin hits. So did these other 150 people before you. It gets old.

I understand what you mean, but most of us like to see replica guns. As long as people stop doing really bad P90s and M4A1s I'm happy.

3. Ok have fun.

XD, I will (if I do make the forum topic).

4. You aren't using enough rubber bands. I cracked many grey connectors with my KG-5 back in the day. After about 10 broken ones I realized that connector ammo isn't the best for high power guns.

Well, I am one of those people who believes that if you can't get good range with only 2 - 3 bands on a gun, the gun is no good. That's just my opinion.

5. Ok if you really want to do that sure. Go ahead.

Fine! XD

7. Nothing personal preference about this. You can't load up pistols like you can full guns with bands because of this. The bands don't apply perfectly straight force onto the pin, and so it will either bed up or down and cause lots of friction in the barrel, or even snap. A pin guide stabilizes and strengthens the pin for more bands.

XD, what do you mean "Nothing personal preference about this..."!?!? Everything you do when you build original K'NEX guns is personal preference. Besides, finding an area to put my pin guides has always been difficult/nearly impossible (at least in my case, with my K'NEX guns).

8. It's part of the challenge to make something that works with just knex. Why not just go out and use wood to make a gun that shoots dowels and then compare it to knex guns? It's the principal of the matter.

Ah, your example was pretty bad, and made no sense. XD

9. Same as above.

As always, meh, whatever.

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didexo (author)2013-08-22

This is going to cause trouble.

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didexo (author)TheRacker2013-08-22

Aren't you a little trouble maker?

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TheRacker (author)didexo2013-08-22

Post a list of things that would improve a gun if implemented, everyone gets butthurt. Fun stuff.

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didexo (author)TheRacker2013-08-22
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TheDunkis (author)2013-08-21

Everyone else has commented enough, so I'll give my shorthand response.
1. As said, depends on the situation. For the average gun, yes.
2. I think being very vague here is what's so disagreeable. I believe we should stop direct feed rod guns. But what about horizontal mags? What about shelled ammo? What about finding new ways other than bolt action? But I get what you were getting at.
3. Eh, depends on the situation. This is one of those "try for if you can, but don't sacrifice performance for" things.
4. Dark greys with green rods work better than green or white rods. They're best for reliable direct loading and horizontal loading. Connectors are necessary to make slingshots effective.
5. In general, agreed. What counts is it's strong.
6. In general, agreed. There are exceptions namely for aesthetics.
7. Not always and forever. When necessary.
8. Why even the pin? Why not just figure out how to rubber band it tightly so not even tape is necessary?
9. In general, agreed. I only use them when there is another option or they're not necessary, but they improve the gun to have. Ugh, how I hate those removable magazines with cut rods. We've shown time and time again it's doable without cutting rods.
10. Depends what you mean. Do you mean never have a straight up one? On the whole, agreed. Do you mean never have a 45 degree one? While I like avoiding that, it's the strongest option to make sure your handle can support pulling back a strong pin.

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Mepain (author)2013-08-20

While I respect your opinions and you do make some good points, there are a few things that you must consider before trying to take a "holier than thou" approach to a set of guidelines for newfriends. I'd like to address each one of these "commandments" and add a couple cents here and there.

>1. All guns shall be 6 layers or less

This is a limiting factor more than a guide. Several guns or mechanisms must be greater than your layer limit to work properly, such as a double barreled shotgun (pic. 1) or guns that have massive turrets and require additional support (pic. 2). The WASP is also one such gun, with parts of it exceeding this limit. Although 6 layers or less is ideal for the comfort of many, it is by no means a rule to adhere to.

>2. All magazine fed guns must be bolt action. I mean come on this is 2013 we've seen enough basic mag guns.

As others stated, "blah blah opinions". That's been addressed enough, so I'll come at this one with a different approach. For one, oodammo pistols and rifles don't need this type of system to perform well, and such a system would most likely be more problematic than beneficial to the guns in question. Secondly, What you are proposing is essentially a new "fad" that people will eventually get tired of. Years ago, people wanted to see more magazine style guns instead of the infamous "block trigger pistol". Of course I don't want to discourage the use of more bolt-action systems, because we might end up making a system simpler and more reliable than the ZKAR's, but this has no place in a "be-all and end-all" style of ruleset.

>3. Removable magazines must have an internal pusher, closed top, and actually lock into the gun and not just use friction to stay in.

I won't pretend to know stuff about removable magazines, but this seems like another one of those subjective things.

>4. Only shoot normal rods, oodammo, or fin ammo. Connector ammo is a giant no no.

Again, this seems like a limitation. Some KI guys have been thinking about making guns that shoot small blocks of knex that you could call "connector ammo" via slingshot designs.

>5. Big stocks are the greatest sin. A stock should be the right length and be sturdy. Do not make some piece sucking monstrosity. No it's not more comfortable.

I would tend to agree with this one, a good stock should balance out a gun nicely, and should not be too big, but it all comes down to personal preference. More on this later.

>6. Be as piece efficient as possible. Don't make the gun bigger than it has to be.

This goes along very well with the previous point. Again, more on this later.

>7. Use a pin guide. Always and forever.

Here's where I start to see some issues. The purpose of a pin guide is to keep the pin straight so it doesn't bend up and snap or rub against the barrel during travel, causing unnecessary friction; the guide can also be used to make priming the gun easier. While beneficial in some cases, pin guides can become slightly detrimental when concerning performance. The extra piece required to attach a pin to a guide is one less space of length that the pin is allowed to accelerate. Additionally, with a setup like the TR's, the priming handle causes a bunch of unnecessary friction unless you push it back to the back of the barrel.

On a pistol, a pin guide can become unnecessary if you know how to properly balance your bands. On a TR (or guns with a similar setup), you can put a few pieces on the stock to stop the pin from bending out of place when primed. I don't know how the pin is affected once it is released in this type of setup, but I'm sure tests can be done.

>8. No tape can be used on the gun except on the pin.

oodalumps had an interesting opinion on this one that I'd like to share. I'm paraphrasing, but I believe it went something like this: "Only use tape to make the knex do something it could already do, but better." On a firing pin, the knex already knows how to stay together, the tape just reinforces it.

I'm sure he'll come by and let me know how wrong I am.

>9. Avoid cut parts if possible. Your gun had better do something different or special for it to have cut parts.

This is something that I strongly agree with you about. In my opinion, cut parts are 100% unnecessary. For me, the only exception is to make the gun more comfortable, but even then they are not needed. Cutting parts just shows everybody how desperate and unskilled the builder is. It sounds cruel, but that's really just how it is.

>10. Have an angled grip. Always.

All grips are angled (90 degrees is still an angle), but I know what you mean. This is another issue of comfort and personal opinion. A front grip does not have to be angled.

~~~

I'd like to give a few final thoughts here, mostly regarding replicas and guns built for looks. Replicas will seldom inspire innovation or performance, and this will NEVER change, but that doesn't mean they don't have a place. Building something to have a very specific shape or angle can become useful when learning the ins and outs of how these little pieces interact with one another. Learning stuff like that can help later on when a builder needs to make a complex trigger mechanism, or figure out how to make a different kind of bullet transfer mechanism, or with something as simple as creating a barrel. When I see a replica, I think "hmm, I wonder what kind of building techniques they used to get that angle or shape," or "Eww, why did that guy use so many cut parts?"

This brings me to a couple points I had earlier with the piece efficiency side of things. As I said, replicas aren't meant for performance, so why should we limit their piece count? Sometimes I think it would just be fun to make some stupid ridiculous gun with tons of smaller guns attached to it (pic. 3). Yeah, it's not a war gun and no, it's not going to perform well in any situation, but dammit, I made a giant dumb gun and I am proud of it. That's how a lot of younger builders feel with their replicas. Some will never build anything but replicas, there's no use in trying to change their mind. But there's always the chance that one of them could get the urge to build something that shoots far, and we'll be here to help them out with that.

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Knex Lego Maniac (author)Mepain2013-08-20

Well said Mepain. Long post lol but I don't recall not agreeing with anything you had to say!

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TheRacker (author)Mepain2013-08-20

Cool mepain is still around. I wasn't really talking about replicas, or slingshot guns, or oodammo pistols, or replicas. And I made this post to create some controversy and make people think about it a bit. Thanks for your long and well thought out reply. It really adds to the discussion.

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FlyingFish10 (author)Mepain2013-08-20

Thank you! And yeah, my RMDSS is 9 layers thick; that doesn't make it a bad gun.

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Nope sorry bro, this is, no offense, silly. XD

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nerfrocketeer (author)2013-08-20

I agree with what you say, but then again I don't build guns that often, so what do I know... :/

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caitlinsdad (author)2013-08-19

11. All pictures of Knex guns should be taken with a camera preferably not made of Knex, but if you have one made of Knex, do get a better camera so you can take good pictures of the Knex camera. That ible will probably be featured..

12. Most digital cameras have a setting for macro, it may be manual or automatic depending how fancy of a camera you have. Use it. Ask Santa or pray to the Knex gods to get you a better camera...and that tub of 700 pieces.

13. Textured carpet is for walking on. Not for picture backdrops. Use some white posterboard or a big clean plain bedsheet spread out flat over the carpet.

14. Turn on all the lights and then take your picture. Sunlight is good unless you still live in the basement or you are one of those vampire types.

15. When in doubt, refer to Kiteman's Zeroth Law, even you Knex'ers.

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ZakS (author)caitlinsdad2013-08-20

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3480972/knex/zg18/Angle%201.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3480972/knex/zg18/Side%20Front.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3480972/knex/zg18/Trigger.jpg

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caitlinsdad (author)ZakS2013-08-20

Gee, I can make out what looks like a yellow rod or a blue connector.

Please check your YOU inbox for a message.

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Kiteman (author)caitlinsdad2013-08-20

I'd say numbers 1-10 are all really just optional guidelines.

11-15, though, are absolutes.

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a poncho liner is not a bed sheet or back drop either.

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Surprised you haven't entered that in the Fort contest. Do it! DOOOO it!

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JonnyBGood (author)2013-08-19

I like some of these..... but no connector ammo? Sorry but I love connector ammo. You should try some sometime, because personally I think it shoots better than rods, granted that they would suck to find in the grass.

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TheRacker (author)JonnyBGood2013-08-19

Connector ammo can break when shot, as well as using parts that are normally used for the gun itself. On my KG-5 gun I ruined many grey connectors by cracking the tops because of the force of the pin.

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JonnyBGood (author)TheRacker2013-08-20

hmmm.... Well I haven't been using enough power to worry about cracking gray connectors yet, but I can see that would be annoying. I do love how small gray connectors are though which allows smaller magazines.

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JonnyBGood (author)JonnyBGood2013-08-19

Oh and what bolt action would you suggest as a good starting gun to learn the concept?

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FlyingFish10 (author)2013-08-19

Some of these I agree with. Others, aren't necessarily "laws" of k'nex. Honestly, this is gonna cause quite a controversy because a lot of these "commandments" are opinions.

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