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Discriminatory hiring/racist/culturist/personalitist Answered

I have been doing a lot of applications recently. I have a long gap in my work history since my last job. The jobs I am applying for our all low-wage nonskilled jobs such as cashier, stocker, low-level restaurant employee, etc. I have an open availability. The thing about the jobs that I'm applying for, is that ANYBODY could do them. To not have them be first come first serve, is discriminatory. How many years of experience do you need to give someone change or make a sandwich? Furthermore I have many years of experience doing those things. But they take a look at me, listen to me, size me up, and make a snap judgment that I would be a poor employee. I'm not saying that there snap judgment is wrong, but it is discriminatory.
               Some places I applied to are over equal opportunity employers, as in if you are a minority you will more likely be hired due to the company needing to meet a diversity quota. Im not saying that in the long run that isn't better for the world and equality, but in the short run it is incredibly discriminatory.
        When you think about it, employers are looking for certain traits in the people that they hire. Some of these traits are professionalism, punctuality, subservience/desire to follow orders, outgoingness, etc. These traits however are not universally considered as desirable personality traits by people of all cultures. Culture is the way a group of people think, talk, dress, interact, etc. By making hiring decisions based on those factors an employer is being culturalist, which is a type of discrimination. They may not be discriminating against any obvious easily classifiable minority culture. But everyone has a culture, individual to them. And by not hiring someone who is qualified to do a job, by not hiring a person for a job in which no experience is necessary, an employer is being discriminatory. Thoughts?

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Toga_Dan (author)2015-02-17

There are a 1000 ways that something wont work out. Your niche may be, ultimately, just 1 thing. Persist. It may be a needle in a haystack, but it is there.

For that matter, learning to adapt is important. Flexibility may get you into 12 niches out of 1000. Better odds.

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avocadostains (author)Toga_Dan2015-02-17

Thanks toga dan. Yea I'm keepin at it. I have an interview at goodwill thrift store. I really hate job jobs though. Really hoping I can come up with a sellable product. I like making stuff.

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Kiteman (author)2015-02-12

I don't know you, all the following is generalisation based on my own experience as an employee and an employer.

"They" say that personality judgements are made in the first few seconds - personal appearance, dress, body language, handshake etc. If you don't fit in your prospective employer's mental jigsaw gap, you'll be fighting an uphill battle to be taken on.

Discrimination laws are not based on qualifications or experience, they are based on race, gender, (dis)ability and culture [eg religion], things which are, nominally, unrelated to the actual job.

Other than that, employers are looking for the "best" person for the job. On top of qualifications and experience, they will be looking at whether your personality fits in with the existing workforce, or whether the skills/experience you have complement those already in the team. They may be looking for a cog to fit in the machine, somebody to push things forward, somebody to be trained up or groomed for promotion.

If you are repeatedly knocked back, it is quite legitimate to politely ask for feedback on why you didn't get the job. If the employer gives it, you don't complain or argue, you accept it, and go away and work on it before the next

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avocadostains (author)Kiteman2015-02-12

Yea I dont know. I think I am oblivious to what it is. I have an interview, I think it goes well...no job. It's possible they are actually checking references in which case I am going to need some fake ones. It is true I am a terrible employee. I am actually on disability for metal health, I have a history of being kicked out, fired, quit etc. I dont actually need a job to pay my bills but at nearly 30 years old (28) my parents are the last people who will have me and theres a lot of pressure from my mom for me to find a job. Ive worked for every temp agency in the city, those doors are all closed. There is the paper route option but I dont know if that would be enough in my mom's opinion, plus I looked into it and I'm kind of protesting it based on the fact that their pay works out to some between 2 and 5 dollars per hours. Tell me who else working for the newspaper is making that little for their time, sitting in cozy office chairs no less, not trudging through the snow. They make you buy your own rubber bands to put around the papers. It isnt right. Might be my only option though. I am trying to start a business of online sales. There are a lot of instructables that I think that would be good sellers and are cheap to make. Just havent put two and two together yet. My stick-to-it-tiveness is somewhat lacking and I dont really have a lot of support in that endeavor. The people in my family go to work, come home, and thats it, theyre done. They're not trying to have little hobbies and do projects. My Dad has every skill in the book but neither the time or patience to help me. I feel like I'm getting closer though.

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Kiteman (author)avocadostains2015-02-13

It sounds like online is the way to go, especially if you can find something unique to offer. Be aware that most online businesses take time to become established and for word to spread.

If you are going to use ideas from instructables to create your stock, and those ideas are unique to the author (for instance, my "paper catapult" is entirely my own invention, it was the first in the world), then you *must* talk to the author to reach an understanding about using their work for commercial gain.

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avocadostains (author)Kiteman2015-02-13

Yea I do see the difference between something that someone pulled out of the woodwork like your catapault and then just something that you got the idea from instructables that someone put a new twist on, like a can stove or a sous vide controller which all use pretty much the same controller. My guess is that youve got things going on in your life that dont allow you to spend most of your day mass producing paper catapaults. Just hypothetical what if I did want to sell those. Is that something where you would just want intellectual credit or would you expect a cut of every catapault made, sold and shipped because to me that would not make sense to have to share the profit with someone who is not doing any of the work.

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Kiteman (author)avocadostains2015-02-13

It is standard practice to licence products - you would pay me a small amount per catapult sold in recognition of the fact that I was the creative force and owner of the intellectual property behind the product.

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avocadostains (author)Kiteman2015-02-13

Alright, how much are we talking per catapult?

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Kiteman (author)avocadostains2015-02-14

If you are moving this into a discussion about an actual deal, we'd better move this to PM.

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avocadostains (author)Kiteman2015-02-14

I guess I just meant more in general. I dont think Id like to have to pay a license fee so paper catapults are not an option, at least not that design> Not tryin to have somebody sue me or something. Thats all I need. I see you have an etsy shop selling laser cut items. Has that been worthwhile for you. My cousin said a friend of hers was cleaning up on Etsy selling reusable feminie pads.

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Kiteman (author)avocadostains2015-02-14

Oh, OK. Licensing costs vary with the product and the company - in the Etsy shop you mention, I sell Scouting-related products, which are licensed by the Scout Association - if an item features SA branding, I pay them 10% of my profits.

I'm not making anything like a living with the shop, it's really just paying for the upkeep of the laser cut (if sales hold up, I should have earned enough to pay for the cutter by the end of this calendar year), but I also don't madly promote it. If I put in a full-on marketing effort, things would be much different.

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avocadostains (author)Kiteman2015-02-14

You mean you bought a laser cutter on payments and the etsy sales should pay it off by year's end? I really want a 3d printer. Ive been looking at the filabot, filatruder that make filament out of plastic. If you could get all that working, plastic bottles are abundant and free in the trash. I thought about making glider planes/rubber band powered. I made one with two lengths of chopdtick and cardboard that I thought was pretty cool. If I could even get a couple dollars for them. Those balsa wood gliders sells for 2-4 dollars. Ive got nothing but time on my hands so really anything where I could make a buck you know? Little miter boxes for craft work I think would be usefula for people and easy/cheap to make. But then yea theres that whole other side to it of being business minded and marketing what you make. Something that you could make a bunch of like one day out of the month, that were small, and you could just let amazon deal with the rest of the business. They take a pretty good cut though, I think around 20 percent. They charge for storage volumetrically I believe down to the square foot, so something like the paper catapults for that reason would be profitable. It seems like a lot of members enjoyed making them. Maybe a collection of paper projects like that. I mean such a collection has been done before, but then so has most everything really. Its just doing it well and coming in with a better price point than the other guy. I dont think Ive ever sold anything for more just than just a nominal, small fraction of what I paid for it. The only garage sale I ever put on was a free sale. Compare that to someone like my brother who is able to get 90% back out of what he paid for something. Being semi opposed to the game in the first place, it's a bit hard to get my head in it. Probably the easiest thing to do, its just a bold first move, is to order something in bulk from china. I dont know. Still working on my skillsets. Hopefully as I level up in instructables things will start to make more sense

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Kiteman (author)avocadostains2015-02-15

I bought it cash, but that's a lump of cash I now haven't got for other things...

What you sell, and how you sell it, is, in the end, up to you. Ebay, Amazon might sell more, but Etsy takes a smaller cut. Facebook has shop tools as well, or you could just start up your own online shop, through any one of dozens of free sites.

Whichever you choose, I wish you luck. Maybe you could write an Instructable on how to start an online business...?

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avocadostains (author)Kiteman2015-02-12

Also I have very little use of my left hand. Not there's anything Ive found that I cant manage to do, it just takes me a lot longer than other people so that cuts out jobs that require speed/dexterity such as assembly you know. What I want to do is buy cheap house and fix them up and sell them to people at a reasonable price. Eventually anyways. Then have a dairy farm.

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Downunder35m (author)2015-02-12

Most countries now have much more unemployed people than available jobs, especially in the low or no qualification sections.

When applying for a job the employee must ensure to be presented the best way possible but not overdressed, e.g. you won't apply for a stree sweeper in a tuxedo...

The paperwork has be up to scratch too, spelling mistakes are one thing that puts every employer off.

And for the employer, well they can choose and be picky...

When you go shopping you don't grab the first tomato you see, you check what's there and pick what you like most.

Often it is the little things that decide whether or not you can get a job.

If you look like a bad guy (tatoos, leather, piercings and so on) you are left with only a few jobs that will work out just fine.

Same story for old and worn clothes or a weird smell coming of them.

I am not saying it is right to judge someone just by their paperwork or how they appear in the first interview, but that's how it is these days.

There might be the perfect guy for the job sitting in front of me but he appears unsettled, nervous and can't look me in the eys - he won't get the job.

But not because of the qualification, just because I had no chance to get to know him or his qualifications.

First impression is the key here ;)

I can tell you that here in AU you simply don't have to apply for certain jobs if you are not asian or a muslim, on the other hand you won't get certain job being asian or a muslim - is it right? I don't know but it is the fact.

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user

You mean some jobs its easy for asians and muslims to get and other jobs are hard for them to get? What kind of jobs?

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For example we have quite a lot of recycling and cleaning companies, so far I have only seen a hand full of "white people" working there.

Similar for the asian suburbs, you be born there and have the best qualifications but if the shop is owned by asians you won't get it.

In some areas it also seems that only indians are qualified for driving a taxi, never mind the lack of english and general lack of sense for directions they show.

Farm jobs during the season like picking fruits and packing them are in asian hands too, only a few backpackers can join in.

Sometimes it is a big mob with one "leader" supplying hundreds of workers that travel from farm to farm. - Big farm I mean, not the small ones entirely run by families and locals.

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I see what you're saying. I think you are right about the "leader" supplying jobs, for Instance if an Indian man who doesnt speak English well starts a taxi service or a cleaning company, which he probably started due to language/cultural barriers to other employment, he would not feel comfortable hiring English speakers who he cant communicate clearly with and who would probably demand higher wages. Also he wants to help out his own people. Also if someone has the iniyiative to come to another country and start a new life they probably have the initiative to start their own business

I dont know about the Asian Stores in AU, but in USA they are mostly small stores run by family members, some of them dont speak English well. If they hired English Speakers they would have to speak English all day so everyone could understand, instead of only using English with customers to say "Hi, Good morning, Have a nice day" and tell them the price of what they are buying.

In USA a lot of farm workers are illegal immigrants (That's a whole other issue, I think they should have easy access to work visas to come legally.) Anyways, the immigrants are hard workers, and they dont complain about working for around minimum wage or less because to them that is still a lot of money, more than they could make in their own country. Also it is easy for farmers to find and hire immigrants because there are a lot of them willing to come and work and to travel from farm to farm. There are not enough US citizens able and willing to do that work.

Whoever is in charge of a company feels most comfortable hiring people who are like them. A lot of black people are convinced that white employers are racist and that's why they won't give them a job. I'm sure that is true to some extent, but another factor is that stereotypical black culture is much different from stereotypical white culture, the grammar, fashion, some values, etc. Look at the black people working high level professional jobs in the US- The president-Barack Obama and other government officials, business people, Oprah Winfrey, etc. It is unfortunate but in this country where most of the wealth/business is controlled by old fashioned white people, you basically have to act white or at least compromise somewhat in order to be successful. Barack Obama could have campaigned with the exact same message and ideas, but if he spoke like this-"I gon bring hope and change to yall" I doubt very much that he would have been elected. And it aint right but like people are saying, that's just the way it is.

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kelseymh (author)Downunder35m2015-02-13

You should read Durable Inequality.

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