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Dissatisfaction with One Aspect of the Pro Membership Change Answered

Hi Instructables, First and foremost let me say that I do enjoy your site. The entire reason I signed up for a free account in the first place was to be able to view all the steps on one page. As I logged in today, I viewed the comparison of Free vs. Pro, and saw that 'View all steps on one page' is no longer a feature of a free account. This feature is very handy when you want to view the steps quickly and browse through what the project is. Please restore this function to the Free account if possible. That said, I do understand the need to monetize. Don't get me wrong. I just feel that this one benefit for a free account wouldn't be so bad. Thank you for taking the time to read my post. Sincerely, Will Shattuck

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matthewvenn (author)2010-01-26

I'm disappointed that the pro features make my instructables harder to follow for non pro members. I want to publish my information freely, and now this site doesn't allow me to do that.

Please allow non pro members to view all attached images and to download the pdf!

Thanks,

Matthew

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8bit (author)matthewvenn2010-04-13

You could download it and post it on your blog or website.

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Xpl0siv (author)2010-03-31
I’m beginning to not like Instructables anymore.
Why the hell should you have to become a pro member just to favorite projects?
This site is starting to become a big corporate machine like YouTube.
I remember Instructables as a fair ‘N square site when I first joined in 2007.

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lemonie (author)Xpl0siv2010-03-31

Another "major-contributor" whinging about ... well what?
Being as you have hardly any presence here, you probably don't know that the site was set up as a business and the time you got things you liked for free was paid for by persons investing money in the enterprise. Things cost, someone wants their money back from back then. Have you got a million$ to donate so that people like you aren't mildly-inconvenienced?

L

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LoneWolf (author)lemonie2010-03-31

You guys should start a forum topic/group for all the whiners that aren't satisfied with the pro-membership arrangement. (unless you haven't already of course)

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kelseymh (author)LoneWolf2010-04-02

Except that the whiners won't have the minimal intelligence or thoughtfulness to even find such a forum topic.  They'll just create their own, like this three-year four-day member did.

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LoneWolf (author)kelseymh2010-04-12

Haha, yeah your right...darnit.

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Xpl0siv (author)lemonie2010-04-01
First of all I've been on this site for 3 years.
Secondly, don't call me a whiner all because I speak the facts.
And thirdly, all I was saying is that it's ridiculous to make people pay to favorite projects.
If you don't like what I have to say then don't read my comments princess.

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NachoMahma (author)Xpl0siv2010-04-01

> I've been on this site for 3 years.
.  According to your info page, you've been a "Member Since: Mar 27, 2010". If this is incorrect, try contacting one of Robot's minions at the "About" link at the bottom of this page.
.
> all because I speak the facts
.  Nope. You're whining. There may be a fact in there, but it is well hidden behind the whining.
.
> it's ridiculous to make people pay to favorite projects
.  Then don't pay. You don't have to do anything at all - just don't pay.

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Xpl0siv (author)NachoMahma2010-04-01
Whatever you say Mr. Richyrich…
I was just asking a plausible question in the first place. You and lemonie just feel that you have to make my question seem as if I’m whining.
You two failed to understand what I was asking.

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lemonie (author)Xpl0siv2010-04-02

Does your browser have a "Favorites" / "Bookmarks" function?
Being insistent that someone should give you a feature they developed (for the site they spent money on) for free doesn't sound reasonable.
So I guess we don't understand what you're asking.

L

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Xpl0siv (author)lemonie2010-04-02
Well it’s more convenient to favorite those pages on my account rather than my browser.
But whatever I don’t care anymore.
If Instructables chooses to be ridiculous and make people pay to favorite projects then fine.
I’m not going to waste anymore of my time arguing with YOU people.

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Kiteman (author)Xpl0siv2010-04-04

Rats, have I missed out on a deep and meaningful debate with an established member row with a winging noob?

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Kiteman (author)Lithium Rain2010-04-04

Yay, Lira!

Long time no type!

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Lithium Rain (author)Kiteman2010-04-04

^_^

Nice to know you missed meh. :D

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Kiteman (author)Lithium Rain2010-04-04

Hey, you know I always miss you!

I'm a rotten shot at long range...

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NachoMahma (author)Kiteman2010-04-04

.  I'm a little closer to her. Shall I try my luck with a shot?

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Kiteman (author)NachoMahma2010-04-05

LOL - I guess "the same continent" is a bit closer...

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lemonie (author)Xpl0siv2010-04-04

I understand your frustration. Lots of sites do things like this and we all get annoyed by it. Right here, I paid the money and got on with my life (that's the sort of person I am). You don't think it's worth paying for, but you do find it worth your time to complain about. It's futile and not that significant in real terms, which is why this looks like whinging.
Last year, before the final decisions were made was the time to complain with everyone else.

L

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NachoMahma (author)Xpl0siv2010-04-02

> Why the hell should you have to become a pro member just to favorite projects?
.  That's the way you ask a "plausible" question? Where I come from that's called bitching, moaning, complaining, whining, ...

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Xpl0siv (author)NachoMahma2010-04-02
Well obviously where you come from people don't know what a question is.

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LoneWolf (author)Xpl0siv2010-03-31

What do you mean "just to favorite projects?"

People with free accounts can still favorite projects!!!

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lemonie (author)2009-08-06

Hi Will, you're not the first person to highlight this, and you won't be the last. Non-paying users don't like it and I understand why. But nothing is going to change this (in the near future at least). It's a drag, but think of the hoops you have to jump through as being necessary encumbrances of having stuff for free? L

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WillShattuck (author)lemonie2009-08-06

Hi Lemonie,

I fully understand this. That's why I won't continue to make a big deal about it. I just needed to voice my frustration.

Re: Stuff Being Free - As one who is a cheapskate, I jump through lots of hoops all the time. :) :)

I don't think what they are offering in the PRO account is enough to make *me* want to pay though. We'll see. I usually use Instructables as a "Ohh, this is cool" kind of site. I don't usually have the time to do any of the things I think are cool. If I do, and I really want the steps on one page, I'm sure I'll ante up the $40 for two years. Or, if I finally make the time to post the Instructables that are in my head, and I need the PRO features,well... we'll see.

Thanks for the kind reply. :)

Will

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kelseymh (author)WillShattuck2009-08-06

When it comes to creating I'bles, the only "pro" feature is the newly announced "author bio" page. It's kind of a souped up profile that gets attached to your Instructables, and over which you have some more control in terms of content and structure.

Otherwise, pretty much all of the "pro" features are geared toward how you access the other content on the site.

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homba (author)kelseymh2009-08-22

Got it, so it's easy to contribute for free, but when you want something back, you gotta pony up for convenience ... sorry to sound so cynical, I just found out about the pro stuff and I'm disappointed by it.

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kelseymh (author)homba2009-08-22

When you want more back than you put in, and when you want back something that cost money to create in the first place. Why not just walk down to your 7-Eleven and expect them to hand out Slurpees for free?

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homba (author)kelseymh2009-08-22

not a valid argument (and a really tired one, too) - same argument the riaa/miaa makes. Information is trivial to duplicate. Eric does not have one less 'ible copy when I view it. I would like to think that a couple of well done 'ibles are worth the ability to do what I've been able to do for some time. Yanking features and making them for-pay goes against the spirit of the site in my world. The folks running the place are really smart people. Make new compelling features that I will want to pay for (i.e. add value). Make it so I can get pro features if I buy a book or a tshirt, or make an awesome 'ible. But virtual badges? please-this is all they could come up with? I'm not 7 years old. ... just don't yank what we already have. I would think that if you don't want to contribute, fine, then pay. But it feels like these guys are going to end up being the gatekeeper for a lot of info that they have only provided a forum for (yes, I do realize the extent of cost and time in providing that forum) I've seen this over and over - slashdot, kuro5hin, so many others and now this site ... it's a slippery slope and both of the other sites are wastelands now. I'm not really interested in arguing with the faithful (and those who have already ponied up the cash), so I'll likely just end up yanking my content at some point and host it on my personal site. Will it get much publicity? Nope, but it will still be mine at the end of the day. I hate to be so sour grapes about it, but I've lost many articles to sites that have gone to pay schemes. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. This seems to be the aging process of this type of site. You're welcome to have the last word here - I've had my say and realize that the site owners can do as they will.

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trebuchet03 (author)homba2009-08-23

Eric does not have one less 'ible copy when I view it.
This completely ignores the cost of running an organization and community like Instructables. Hard costs are involved (personnel, rent, electric, insurance, etc.) , a site of this scope does not run autonomously. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting (my apologies if this is the case)

I hate to be so sour grapes about it, but I've lost many articles to sites that have gone to pay schemes.
And I've lost media to completely failed sites. Think of it more of users expecting their content to be there in 3 years rather than efforts to take away features. Because I do expect my content to be here :p As time goes on, we (the users) and the core team are coming up with more awesome pro features :)

Don't consider me "faithful" so much as valuing my content (consider it selfish :p). It's cheaper than hosting and if my projects were to get a deluge of traffic, my host wont just delete my account (because I can only afford that type of web host :p). I value that moreso than any particular site feature ;)

So far, Instructables seems to be fairing well. Based on available public info, uniques haven't grown (IIRC, summer is "off season" because people are out). I feel this is a big deal considering the implementation of a payed account system.

I'm not really interested in arguing with the faithful (and those who have already ponied up the cash), so I'll likely just end up yanking my content at some point and host it on my personal site. Will it get much publicity? Nope, but it will still be mine at the end of the day.

I implore you to keep your content up. I LOVE recumbents (I saved a long time to buy my touring SWB) and would hate to see your projects go. Not to be spiteful, but I've made a backup copy (with the current creative commons by-nc-sa dated licensing) in case it were to disappear. The only bad part is the backup doesn't have full quality images or notes :(

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homba (author)trebuchet032009-08-24

re costs: You're exactly right, there are many other non-trivial costs than just duplicating a file, but comparing it to stealing a Slurpee is just silly.

I'm very flattered that you've saved down my 'ibles. They aren't super-amazing, but they were 3 years in the making. That's why I shared it (to save others the 3 years :) ).

Now that I'm thinking about it, can they actually charge to see (at least in a basic form) a non-commercially licensed 'ible? If that's the case, I guess I'm good - every other site I've contributed to locked up the content that others created and charged for it. Very bad form in my book.

Now that I've gotten over my knee-jerk reaction, I think what is most disappointing to me is that they went to subscriptions. I'm not able to participate much with the community stuff here (I work multiple jobs to make ends meet). Was there a forum topic from the site owners for brainstorming creative, alternative ideas? Subscriptions just seem so conforming, white-bread, old media, conservative, quick-and-easy-way-out.

I was hoping for some cool unique web architecture that would offset the server loads and make the site more peer-to-peer with the community sharing the load. Maybe they could have a custom book feature where you could pick 20 instructables that would automatically be formatted, perfect-bound, and delivered to you with no human intervention a-la VistaPrint.com (I'd totally buy this).

So there you go - I'm not pissed, just disappointed. I guess I'll just have to wait and see how things go. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

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trebuchet03 (author)homba2009-08-24

Now that I'm thinking about it, can they actually charge to see (at least in a basic form) a non-commercially licensed 'ible?

This, I think answers that question :)
When someone posts their content to Instructables, or any other website for that matter, the TOS of the site dictates the agreement and licensing of the content. CC licenses only apply to third parties, i.e if someone copies and redistributes an Instructable, they must abide by the license shown on the Instructable.

I was hoping for some cool unique web architecture that would offset the server loads and make the site more peer-to-peer with the community sharing the load.
That would be cool IF the cost of running their servers was the most pressing cost. Unfortunately, it isn;t "(

Maybe they could have a custom book feature where you could pick 20 instructables that would automatically be formatted, perfect-bound, and delivered to you with no human intervention a-la VistaPrint.com (I'd totally buy this).
These options (and others) have already been explored. No to be terse, but it's been mulled over quite a bit that shirts and books and sticker sales just do not support the community.

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homba (author)trebuchet032009-08-24

hmm - well i guess we'll just have to wait and see how things shake out. I'm still disappointed that the finances aren't working out as things were.

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trebuchet03 (author)homba2009-08-24

I'm still disappointed that the finances aren't working out as things were.

I think just about everyone is with you on that :D

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Lithium Rain (author)trebuchet032009-08-24

/jumps on that bandwagon faster then hot grease can spit

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gmjhowe (author)Lithium Rain2009-08-25

Haha, thats a pretty damned good comment.

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JamesRPatrick (author)kelseymh2009-09-29

They do that annually. (Smiley face)

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lemonie (author)WillShattuck2009-08-06

More than a few people have already voiced frustrations, which I fully appreciate. But in the end that's the way it is. I replied that you got a reply. L

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Xpl0siv (author)lemonie2010-04-01

OH REALLY?!!

So why is it that when I voice my frustration you feel the need to talk down to me?

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LoneWolf (author)2010-03-12

You know, it is annoying. But all you have to do is click on the "View All Steps on One Page" when you go into an instructable and you get that anyway.

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Xpl0siv (author)LoneWolf2010-04-01

I tried it and it didn't work.

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LoneWolf (author)Xpl0siv2010-04-02

Oh, sorry I have no idea what the problem is.

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lemonie (author)LoneWolf2010-03-12

That shouldn't work, that is what this person was complaining about. However, Aug09 is a long time ago and perhaps they gave in on this one? (I think they may have)

L

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LoneWolf (author)lemonie2010-03-13

Oh....................Well, at least it works now.

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hcaham (author)2010-02-12

I am not technical, creative or hands on, however, for the past while I really enjoyed 'Instructables'.  When I found I could down load a prepared PDF it was such a great idea and time saver.  Many of the projects and ideas are so clever and many are so well done.  Others may not be up to par but I appreciate many for the attempt and innovative ideas.

I do not mind that there is now a cost and the pro membership concept, unfortunately, the cost is a bit to steep for me.  I find  (too my regret)  while I review the new projects and ideas as they are posted, I rarely delve further into the details.  I would appreciate if you would consider, if possible , at some time, having  a special introductory fee or discount every so often.

Regards.

**Sorry if this is a duplicate, I click on 'preview' and everything disappear.... so I  posted my comment again. 

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lemonie (author)hcaham2010-02-13

It's small money really, you could pay as a one-off and forget about it.

L

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