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HHO generator improves fuel efficiency of petrol engine! Answered

Reproduced verbatim from The Fortean Times issue 249, republishing from FT35

JUNE 1979
On the 15th a demonstration of a "revolutionary" energy device took place at an undisclosed location in the UK. Iowerth Thomas, 58 a Welsh inventor, hoped to interest both government energy officials and an Arab consortium. Mr Thomas had been experimenting since 1936 with ways to make petrol engines burn more efficiently. His "bolt-on" device promised between 25 and 40 per cent efficiency using "the electrolysis of tap water", plus a cleaner exhaust. The government scientists' response - that it was impossible - spurred Mr Thomas to demonstrate it for them. He reported to the motoring correspondent of the Daily Telegraph that his stationary engine ran for 112 seconds with his device and for 77 seconds on the same amount of petrol without it. The usual objection to electrolytic systems is that the energy needed to run them is greater than that produced. With some sarcasm, New Scientist sniffed that the device needed to be much smaller than the room-size contraption Jones used. What really stoked their scorn was Thomas's reply when asked how it worked: "It's beyond me," he said. That was the last we heard of him and his promising device.

How has this technology improved in the last 30 years?



how did that valve get hammered into the piston head Like that? poor design is my guess

I think this image has been used to draw attention to the idea.
The technical advances of the last 30 od years have seen this technology be systematically burried by the oil companies as they have the most to loose
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe and when burned the by product is water There are car companies developing Hydrogen fuelcell vehicles.
The HHO on demand system simply can be used as an aftermarket system that will fit any current vehicle. There is a huge untapped market for these systems and we are trying to generate enough interest to be able to A, sell kits to the DIY man, B, do more R & D to improve the product and make it more efficient.

dead thread since 2009?! wel i hope someone has the same interest in this as i do. i think ive found a new hobby...

I hope I can help bring it back to life.
I am currently doing research on this subject and have come up with some astonishing facts.
I am currently making a HHO dry cell generator that will suplement my fuel with Hydroxy gas.
So far It seems that a saving of 30% to 50% can be achieved on fuel consumption while reducing your vehicle emissions by as much as 85%
Once set up you can re-clasify your vehicle as a hybrid and as a result can reduce your road fund licence duty.
These are a few of the benefits to be had and I am astonished that in this climate especially people are not queing up to have these devices fitted.

Perhaps I'm merely being dense, but "The usual objection to electrolytic systems is that the energy needed to run them is greater than that produced" makes exactly zero sense to me - that's true of ALL systems, so I don't see why it's particularly relevant to an electrolytic one?

. That's just the most common process to produce Hydrogen for HHO projects. I don't think they were trying to pick on electrolysis only.

I still don't get it though...why pick on any HHO project on those grounds? I mean why use that reason as a reason for disparaging anything? Seems like that'd be like saying a product stinks because it's limited by the law of gravity...

I think the main point is that hydrogen is a lot less efficient than, say, solar power. I remember that Kiteman explained it somewhere on the forums a while ago.

Hydrogen is good for running cars, and electrolysis is good for producing hydrogen, but powering the electrolysis by burning the hydrogen is woowoo.

So-called HHO generators might have a positive effect on petrol engines by changing the way the engines burn, increasing the efficiency. That is a wholly different thing to what the people who refer to electrolysis as "generating HHO" claim; that the gas they generate burns to release more energy that it took to split the water.

I made a hydrogen generator for my little mazda. I consistently got a gain of about 10% in miles per gallon (tested over the course of 4000 miles). My assumption was that the energy used to generate hydrogen came from a surplus of electricity from the alternator. The battery and accesories can only use so much electricity. If the aternator is creating more than that (particularly at highway speeds), any excess energy was being used to generate hydrogen. The stories of burning hydrogen efficiently enough to generate enought hydrogen to run the vehicle just don't make sense.

. Generators/alternators don't produce excess power. If it's not needed, it doesn't make it.

I'm seriously challenged when it comes to electrical stuff. I thought a generator/alternator made a given amount of power according to its' RPMs, with a regulator allowing only as much juice out as what is needed for the various electrical systems (battery charging, accesories, ign., etc).

. More RPMs will mean more Voltsin an unregulated system, which would mean more power. P=V2/R, so it would go up pretty quick ... and burn everything out faster. It would take more fuel to produce the added power out.
. You could possibly tap what is being wasted by the regulator. I'm not sure how and most regulators "throttle" the field coils, so there's not a lot of waste to recover.

this seems perfect to me though; as you need more power, you increase throttle, in turn producing more rpms and energy needed to compete a revolution? right? it seems to me like it should be a very clean equation.

Teehee, woowoo - that made me giggle. Thanks for explaining it. :)

Interesting article, think I've known at least one person running on that script. L

of course it is less efficient than solar.... the sun, only the largest hydrogen helium bomb we look at for all of our known time. if we had some minds working that one, fossil fuel usage would plummet!!!

. HHO proponents do not understand Conservation Of Energy as well as you do. They claim that they can get more energy out than goes in. They either have electrolysis machines that will put out more 2H2 + O2 per Watt than conventional Science allows or they tweak atomic/molecular bonds to get "extra" energy out of the combustion process.
. There's a BIG difference between Hydrogen powered cars (no one is claiming over-unity) and HHO machines (they are).

Ahhh, I see, it's the crackpots who are trashing the non-crackpot technology. >Lightbulb< :D

this is the coolest technoogy ive ever seen. cant beieve its been around for a century. im an oil patch worker and woud ove to introduce this to the production and refining process..... give me a structural eng, mech eng, and eectrical eng 3rd or 4th year, with my $ well make billlllllllllllllions!!!

> How has this technology improved in the last 30 years? . The ads are a lot prettier.