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KWR1 V.1 + "The More Bands, the Better" Myth Answered

The KWR1 (K’NEX War Ready gun #1Version #1) V.1 came out of my idea to build an entirely “mod-able” slingshot sniper weapon that you could rely upon in any outdoor K’NEX war (hence the name). You could make this gun longer; you could make this gun shorter. You could add a nonadjustable stock; you could make the stock longer, you can do practically anything to this gun (other than change the mechanism and the handle position).
 
Features:
  • Good range: 60 ft. (1 band) – 100 ft. (5 bands, 45 degree angle)
  • Can shoot: Oodammo (1 band: 60 ft.), Large K’NEX wheel (5 bands: 30 ft.), Small K’NEX wheel (5 bands: over 80 ft.), Lego bricks (5 bands: 50 ft.), NERF darts (5 bands: 50 ft.), and size #117 bands as a RBG (30 – 40 ft.)
  • 10 point adjustable stock (see pictures 8 -11) with “Stock lock” (see pictures 13 - 15, 17)
  • Totally customizable
  • Safety (see pictures 15 - 16)
  • Cheek rest (see picture 9)
  • Not too piece consuming
 
Now, with all of that out of the way, I want to talk about ammo sizes and the “the more bands, the better” myth. So to do that, let’s look at the stats (shooting with three size #117 bands):
 
Red Connecter Ammunition:
No rod attached: 62 ft.
Green rod attached: 55 ft. 4 in.
White rod attached (oodammo): 42 ft.
Blue rod attached: 35 ft. 5 in.
Yellow rod attached: 40 - 45 ft.
Red rod attached: (got caught in the bands)
Grey rod attached: (got caught in the bands)
 
Grey Connecter Ammunition:
No rod attached: 64 ft. 9 in.
Green rod attached: 59ft. 4 in.
White rod attached: 50 ft.
Blue rod attached: (got caught in bands)
Yellow rod attached: 40 ft.
Red rod attached: (got caught in bands)
Grey rod attached: (got caught in bands)

As you can see, the larger the round got, the lower the range you would receive. I think that this is a direct proof that bigger bullets are not necessarily good ammunition. For example, the ZKAR uses yellow rods? Might it get better range if it shot blue rods? Now, admittedly, the instances may be different with different guns, but I highly doubt it.
 
Conclusion: Stick with ammo sizes between blue rods and white rods (including both the blue rod and the white rod).
 
 
Now I want to talk a little about the “the more bands, the better” myth.
 
I took the KWR1 out to my backyard, grabbed some oodammo (growing in our garden, mind you), and commenced shooting from a prone position. Then I got this idea… what if I was to shoot with only 1 band, and not all 5? So I started to do that, leaving the bullets where the fell after having been shot. Then I decided to go back to shooting with 5 bands, to see how much better the range would be. So I fired a couple rounds… and got no better range than I did when I shot with only 1 band. I did this a couple more times, and found it to be true.
 
There is a myth (myth = a traditional story) pervading instructables that you will always get better range with more bands. Now, it is my personal opinion that if a gun can’t get 50 ft. with two bands, it’s no good, but that is irrelevant.
 
Conclusion: More bands does not necessarily mean better range.
 
 
Now, I am not stating these subjects as fact, for that would seem arrogant and presumptuous, but I do believe they are, to some extent, true.
 
-The Red Book of Westmarch

25 Replies

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DarkOwlProductions (author)2013-09-02

Red, I think you did a great job with this, and this is definitely accurate. More bands, after a certain point, don't add as much range as they did when you were putting the first bands on; it almost makes it seems like the range doesn't get better. It does by a tiny bit, but it takes a lot of bands to get significantly better than three to four bands.

I think that's pretty much what we've discovered as a result of all this testing. I salute all that weren't lazy like me and actually tested some stuff. :P

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user

Thanks bro. I am glad that I meet your approval.

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user
TheAwesomestDude (author)2013-08-31

Make sure to read both of the rackers comments as they are true mabye blunt but true and that stock mech is cool I will have to try that out

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user

I read them both, but I find it hard to believe that 10 bands with give you any better range than 3 or 5...

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user

it will, just decreasingly less each time

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user

Remember this doesn't apply to slingshots.

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TheRacker (author)2013-08-30

Also the reason you didn't get better range with your slingshot is because there is no friction holding the bands back, so they accelerate to their maximum speed basically instantly. Adding more bands does not mean there will be more acceleration. Adding more bands works with a pin gun though, because the bands have to overcome the friction of the pin in the barrel, so adding more will add more force to the pin, causing it to accelerate more.

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user

As to pin guns, I doubt that. I have made LOTS of pin guns in my time, and 7 bands never made the gun any better than with 2 bands.

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user

Funny, my TR shoots much farther with 7 bands as opposed to 2. Maybe your guns have other issues that keep the ammo from accelerating?

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TheRacker (author)2013-08-30

Well duh adding more bands isn't going to proportionally add range. The second band might make it go 60% farther, third band 40% farther, and so on. The point of a gun like a NAR is that you want to squeeze every possible inch of performance out of it. What you're saying is like saying that we should only have priuses because they are efficient and every other car is bad. F1 cars are stupid, they guzzle gas and aren't efficient. That's basically what you're saying. Every gun has it's place.

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user

Every gun has its place? Did that just come from the guy who says that he hates (I'm paraphrasing) basic pin + magazine guns? No, I'm saying that I find it hard to believe that you will get better range with 5 bands as opposed to 2, even with a pin gun.

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user

Well that's like saying that we should still use model T's, because they work. Man these car analogies work great.

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didexo (author)2013-08-31

This doesn't really apply for pin guns. Read what Racker said.

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user

Maybe and maybe not. I read what The Racker said, but I find it hard to believe. I have yet to see any evidence.

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oodalumps (author)2013-08-30

Pin gun physics is very different.

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I can see why people think that, but I have yet to SEE any cold hard evidence.

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sandroknexmaster (author)2013-08-30

Cool! I like wheel shooting guns :D

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user

Yeah, me too. Although I wish that they would get better ranges.

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user

Yes they don't have the perfect shape to fly far...

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