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What makes a gun? An elements of a gun lesson Answered

Since this is a group that likes to break it down a little, I decided to give you guys a good start.

First you have to ask yourself, How do you break down a knex gun? Every time you design a new gun (not basing on looks first), this is how you define each element:

- Trigger:   This is quite obvious; a system that will lock the trigger back and release when activated. (examples: true trigger, a single pin, crossbow trigger, motor (for turret designs), etc.)

- Ammunition feed:   This is the system that will pull a single bullet from the ammunition storage, and put it in place for firing. (examples: gravity, spring (from a clip on the bottom of gun), lever system, etc.)

- Ammunition Storage:   A simple device in theory, but sometimes quite complicated due to the fine tuning involved; a place that stores your ammunition not in use. (examples: hopper, chain-fed, clip, chamber (like a revolver or a pseudo Gatling gun), etc.)

- Reload:   One of the hardest systems to design in knex yet very crucial to the gun; the system that reloads the gun for firing again. (examples: semi-auto, full-auto, pump-action, etc)

- Firing pin:   The system that obviously fires the bullet loaded.

- Barrel:   This has always been an iffy in knex. This is completely optional, but here are the results for it: If you add one, it can increase accuracy of shooting - but can lead to jamming and friction. If you don't, your shots can (most likely will be) quite inaccurate at medium to long ranged.

Safety:   This feature is nice, but not necessary at all and should defiantly be thought of after the gun is fully made or the firing system / ammunition system is completely done. This system of course allows users to lock their gun while not in use to prevent mis-firing. For larger guns, I tend to go full out on this feature as larger guns can be more user-friendly and dangerous in the wrong hands (or the right hands!); and I've even created a key-lock system to enable the gun (like a car engine). (yes, the key lock was designed similar to that of a house lock, it had changeable teeth that could only be opened when the appropriate key was turned in) I highly recommend this feature, but please leave it to the end!

- Other features / handles:   other features such as how the gun is held or mounted should be thought of at the very end, otherwise you would end up trying to work around that, not the other way around.


BUILDING
I highly suggest designing these systems separately and puting them together after they work. The only thing about this is that you build all the systems one at a time, but be sure to add the next piece on AS you're building it. Otherwise you would end up with a variety of systems that work, but not together. PLEASE feel free to post any systems designed (or built) in this group so we can work as a team to put these pieces together. For an example please check out the gun I've posted on this website (I've only posted one so far), it's a great example of building and designing systems separately but to work together.


HAPPY BUILDING!

50 Replies

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dsman195276 (author)2008-07-07

get rid of clip under ammunition storage. other then that, good job.

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SNIPERDUDE (author)dsman1952762008-07-08

Thanks. Meh, I'll leave the clip thing - all this tutorial is is mainly theory anywho.

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dsman195276 (author)SNIPERDUDE2008-07-08

no, you can't make a clip with knex.

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SNIPERDUDE (author)dsman1952762008-07-09

Then define a clip for me.

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dsman195276 (author)SNIPERDUDE2008-07-09

a clip is a part that feeds the mag with ammo. when a gun is clip fed it can NOT be fed with single ammo.

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user

what about it? it has a mag.

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The Jamalam (author)dsman1952762009-07-17

TDS2 has a clip, you attach it to post-it notes.

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dsman195276 (author)The Jamalam2009-07-18

that's a removable mag.since the gun can be loaded with out a clip.

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The Jamalam (author)dsman1952762009-07-18

The handle IS the mag. It is loaded with a clip. But you don't have to. You can load it manually, or with a clip.

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DJ Radio (author)The Jamalam2009-07-17

isnt that a stripper clip? lol.

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dsman195276 (author)DJ Radio2009-07-18

actually, a stripper clip isn't a clip. a stripper clip simply loads the mag.

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The Jamalam (author)DJ Radio2009-07-17

And every other clip, yes.

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dsman195276 (author)SNIPERDUDE2008-07-10

do you want a link to a real gun site were they define clip?

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SNIPERDUDE (author)dsman1952762008-07-10

That's OK, I'm fine with it.

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TheDunkis (author)dsman1952762008-07-09

Uh my M1 idea used clips. My pistol if you use the two parts seperatly would be considered using clips with a detacheable feeding device.

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dsman195276 (author)TheDunkis2008-07-09

you can't make a real clip with knex, because you can always load a knex gun with louse ammo.

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TheDunkis (author)dsman1952762008-07-09

A clip is simply a storage device for ammo to feed to the magazine no? Just becuase it is posible to load a gun differently doesn't mean you cann't use a clip. In other words you just make something to hold the ammo together without a loading device. Sort of like making a detacheable magazine without the auto loader in the bottom.

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dsman195276 (author)TheDunkis2008-07-10

no no, yes a clip stores ammo, but yes, if you can load the gun in some other means then it is a detachable magazine, not a clip. you see, i have yet to see a knex gun that CAN'T be muzzle loaded, because the barrel is the same all the way down it, you can always put a rod down the barrel now if you made a barrel that could not be muzzle or breach loaded then it could have a clip.

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The Jamalam (author)dsman1952762009-07-17

Load a clip into the magazine...

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dsman195276 (author)The Jamalam2009-07-18

you just proved it is not a clip. if you can load the gun with out a clip, then it is not a real clip, but a mag.

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TheDunkis (author)dsman1952762009-07-18

*sigh* You know you are contradicting yourself, right? You say a clip can't be a clip because of a very loose fact about clips yet you claim that something that can't load itself to be a magazine? And yes it is possible to make it so that you can only fire a gun using a clip but still I don't think it really matters. It was only because of the way that real guns worked compared to knex that required the clip device to allow it to fire.

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TheDunkis (author)dsman1952762008-07-10

I still don't understand how being able to load a gun in a worse way than a clip makes it so it isn't clip fed. So your basically saying if an M1 Garand was able to be muzzle loaded it wouldn't be considered loaded with a clip it would be considered a muzzle load only because it can load by worse means than a clip? What sense does that make? Also even so it still is posible to make a clip from knex.

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dsman195276 (author)TheDunkis2008-07-10

nono, the difference between a clip and a mag (besides some other things) is that a clip loaded gun can not be breached or muzzle loaded. the clip becomes a mag when that is possible.

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TheDunkis (author)dsman1952762008-07-10

Ok let's get one thing straight. A clip is a device that holds ammunition to feed into the magazine to load the gun such as the en bloc clip for an M1 Garand. A magazine is often confused with a clip the device that both stores and loads the ammo. Most the time it also stores the ammo and can be detachable like box magazines you see on most assault rifles. In knex an example of a detachable magazine would be from my AK-47. An example of a clip would be the M1 idea I had where there is a permanent auto loader in the bottom acting as the magazine and then knex pieces sticky noted together to make clips. The only real difference between clips and magazines is that clips only hold the ammo they don't load it. In knex there are pretty much only two ways to make a clip on being the idea mentioned for my M1 and the other being a quick loader for a revolver.

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dsman195276 (author)TheDunkis2008-07-10

well, yes and no. all knex gun right now can be muzzle or breach loaded so no clips.

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TheDunkis (author)dsman1952762008-07-10

what difference does it make if a gun can be muzzle or breach loaded?!! If it uses a clip it uses a clip like I said before why does a gun not use a clip because it can be loaded in a worse way?

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dsman195276 (author)TheDunkis2008-07-10
A magazine may therefore be defined as a container of ammo. A room full of shells on a battleship is a magazine, and so was the Parthenon when it was used as a powder store. If one has ever visited Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia, one of the restorations there is a building, a "magazine1," dating more than 200 years ago.

On the other hand, the ammo "clip" was introduced by Mannlicher in 1885 and provided a way to charge the magazine in the action. What so many fail to appreciate is that this type of "clip" also forms an integral part of the firearm's mechanism. If the rounds are not held in the "clip," the gun cannot proceed through the normal cycle of…
M1 Garand en bloc clip with eight rounds of .30-06 ball ammo

  • Chamber
  • Fire
  • Extract
  • Eject

This means that if a firearm is said to be "clip-loaded," it won't function with loose ammunition.

More reasons why the two terms should not be confused or interchanged is because the "clip" actually fits inside a magazine2. One of the most famous and widely used clip-fed weapons is John Garand's celebrated M1 rifle with which the United States went to war, 1941-45. It might be the popularity of this firearm which has caused so many Americans to confuse reloads with "clips." One may argue that a single round may be hand-loaded into the chamber of a Garand and fired, but the above definition still holds as the shooter is performing the loading part of the firing cycle instead of the en bloc clip.

i got that from here

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TheDunkis (author)dsman1952762008-07-10

Sigh...now you're just being too literal about it. You do know that in knex seeing that it is impossible to replicate fire arms mechanics to such specific parts that we don't need to take those details into account. Even then you do still know that it is possible to make a clip and gun out of knex that works by your terms.

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dsman195276 (author)TheDunkis2008-07-10

yes, with some work you could make a clip, but untill then it is a mag.

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TheDunkis (author)dsman1952762008-07-10

How is it a mag if it doesn't load itself? A magazine loads the ammo as well as storing it. The clips I've made can't load themselves unless I have the auto loader in the gun.

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Oblivitus (author)TheDunkis2008-09-06

WOW!, you guys just said the SAME EXACT THING over and over and OVER!!! LOL!

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TheDunkis (author)Oblivitus2008-09-06

Lol I know...it took dsman forever to explain that a clip fed gun can only use clips and I finally said something like oh well that's too technical but you can make something to store ammo that doesn't feed itself...

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SNIPERDUDE (author)TheDunkis2008-09-06

As you can see I left the topic quite early on. Lol

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Oblivitus (author)TheDunkis2008-09-06
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tn102 (author)TheDunkis2008-07-10

A clip is a device that is used to store multiple rounds of ammunition together as a unit,ready for easier insertion into the magazine of a repeating firearm. A detachable magazine is often referred to as a clip, but a detachable magazine can still be loaded by a clip, so it can not be a clip. A magazine is an ammunition storage and feeding device within or attached to a repeating firearm. The magazine functions by moving the cartridges stored in the magazine into a position where they may be loaded into the chamber by the action of the firearm.

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TheDunkis (author)tn1022008-07-10

I know all of this I just tried shortening all of that to basically say when it comes down to it magazines feed themselves while clips don't and need to be loaded into a magazine to load ammo. At least that's the basic concept.

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SNIPERDUDE (author)TheDunkis2008-07-19

There is a difference, and it's not so hard to just say Mag instead of clip. Still one syllable.

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SNIPERDUDE (author)tn1022008-07-19

I was going to make a clip one time, but gave up on it, lol. But yea, your right.

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user

yes you can make a knex clip......easy and complicated at the same time O_o

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