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sodium production Answered

another way for sodium production
heared some where that molten sodium acetate  produces sodium metal, carbon dioxide and ethane <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethane#Chemistry>

Sodium Acetate
baking soda and vinagar
melting it and doing electrolysis to make sodium

Melting point 324 °C, 615.2 °F (anhydrous)<(no water)>
58 °C (trihydrate) still has water


Sodium Hydroxide
Melting point 318 °C, 591 K, 604 °F

ive made sodium with lye very useful thanks alot to this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL1cKb3_ojE

message back on what you think

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kelseymh (author)2010-05-21

Interesting possibility.  What are you using as your crucible?  Are you using induction heating?  What gas have you chosen to maintain an inert dry atmosphere?  How do you divert the produced ethane to avoid ignition?

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symboom (author)kelseymh2010-05-22

no propane torch the same method as the video but with sodium acetate keep a fan to blow the gasses awy so they dont build up it wont ignite unless the gases are separated co2 and ethane the co2 prevents it from igniting as the gases mix

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kelseymh (author)symboom2010-05-22

Interesting!  Do you know what the percentage of ethane in the evolved gas is?

In the BaBar drift chamber we had an 80:20 mix of helium and isobutane.  That mix was still considered flammable if it leaked into the outside atmosphere.  I'm familiar with other drift chambers using CO2-ethane or Ar-ethane, usually in a 90:10 mix, and all of them are considered flammable gasses.

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NachoMahma (author)kelseymh2010-05-22

.  According to the Wikipedia link given in the OP, the reactions are (?Twice as many moles of CO2 as C2H6?):



Just FYI:
.  Explosive limits of 3.0–12.5% in air (per Wikipedia). It doesn't take a whole lot of C2H6 to go boom.
.  As far as energy released, it is very similar to methane (natural gas is mostly methane). According to Wikipedia: "The complete combustion of ethane releases 1561 kJ/mol, or 51.9 kJ/g, of heat"

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symboom (author)NachoMahma2010-05-24

co2 does not burn remember so if any fire it puts it out as long as the two gases mix it cant ignite or flow also ethane floats and co2 sinks

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NachoMahma (author)symboom2010-05-24

.  Yes, under stable conditions, the CO2 might provide an inert blanket, but there will still be some mixing of air and ethane if there is any draft/breeze. Only takes 3% ethane in air to be explosive. Once an explosion is initiated, see next paragraph.
.  If there was any explosion at all (or even rapid expansion), everything would be thrown outward and the ethane, once it mixed with air, would exacerbate things. The Na + H2O reaction is bad enough to risk inside - the ethane just makes it that much more dangerous.
.  It sounds like a great experiment and lots of fun, it just needs to be done with the proper precautions.

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NachoMahma (author)NachoMahma2010-05-23

.  Not sure where the reactions went, but if you're interested, they are on the same Wikipedia Ethane page as linked to in the OP.

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symboom (author)symboom2010-05-22

its an iron container the first time i made sodium with lye all i had was aluminum container works for a while but i left it sit for a week with lye in it and the lye was disolving the aluminum and it was bubbling hydrogen gas.
now i like the sodium acetate for it does not disolve aluminum and its not so dangerous and corrosive
 

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Kiteman (author)kelseymh2010-05-21

Watch the video - no inert atmosphere, the lye is just melted with a blowtorch.

Did Davy use an inert atmosphere when he first isolated sodium?


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kelseymh (author)Kiteman2010-05-22

Did he know he needed one?  And when you consider the number of laboratory fires and explosions in the 19th Century (not even counting Dr. Nobel!), I don't think that's a particularly good example for how to do these things safely ;->

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Kiteman (author)kelseymh2010-05-23

I didn't say it was safe, just that it was possible...

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lemonie (author)2010-05-22

You aim to produce red-hot molten sodium? It'll burn, and quite energetically.

L

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symboom (author)lemonie2010-05-24

actually strangely when i made sodium through lye it is so hard to make it burn

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NachoMahma (author)lemonie2010-05-22

.  The ethane won't help, either. Sounds like a future Darwin Award winner to me.

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lemonie (author)NachoMahma2010-05-22

Ethane? Yes I see it, but it's not going to happen.

L

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