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Perpetual Motion? Answered

Can perpetual motion be achieved in space?

Question by blinkyblinky    |  last reply

Perpetual Motion

If perpetual motion is theoretically impossible, how is the earth still in orbit? Or how is anything in orbit? There falling at the rate at which the object there falling towards is rotating and they'll never stop rotating or falling so isn't that perpetual motion?

Topic by emuman4evr    |  last reply

Proof of Perpetual motion? Answered

I am sorry I can't embed the video but you can find it on Youtube here  proof? :-)

Question by rickharris    |  last reply

perpetual motion machine/device...

Ok, me and my friends were chatting on im on diff ways and ides for perpetual motion machines and i decided to make a forum about it. here is probably the best one, make suggestions, comments, and add your own ideas. ok, you have a tractor trailor or and vehicle for that matter, and you attach a turbine to the top with a fan/propeller/paddle like on the boats at busch gardens that catches air and spins faster as you pick up speed. once the driver has reached the desired speed, he turns the engine off and pulls a knob like on a lawnmower that gets the blade spinning from the motor, but in this case, it gets the wheel axel spinning from the fan thing at the top. the air/wind from the speed of the vehicle spins the fan thing, which spins the axle that spins the wheel that keeps the wind/air coming to the fan up top. if you think this will work, have any comments, or, can even test this out!(i dont have the recources) feel free to post your result or anything else you want to say. i will check and reply :)

Topic by A.C.E.    |  last reply

Perpetual motion & free energy is it possible? Answered

Hi Eric/Instructables, Basically I have been looking at perpetual motion and am led to believe that it is impossible due to the laws of thermodynamics meaning heat/energy has to be transferred somewhere, so I came up with a few designs which may challenge this theory.  Without wanting to reveal my designs and ideas too much I will explain what I am trying to accomplish and would love your opinion as to whether you think they are viable. I have 2 ideas, one is to use 'rare' magnets (which aren't rare at all so cost and obtaining them is not as hard as it sounds!) and have the magnets propelling round like a wind turbine design using the opposite poles effect to repel the magnets and get the turbine started.  Once the turbine is in motion I will harness the electricity created by the movement of the turbine/motor in a capacitor or kinetic store. This stored  electricity  can be used to keep the magnets magnetized by wrapping wire coils round the magnets and passing the stored current through the coil to keep the magnets repelling each other and spinning the turbine. Idea number 2 is a similar concept just dropping the use of magnets and using the method of so called free energy where you can get a small voltage from using a radio antenna, capacitors and germanium diodes (there are several example videos on the internet) again using a wind turbine effect to keep re-fueling the capacitors so the voltage drop when the load is applied is nulified. Perpetual motion is the dream and I think the transfer of heat/energy caused by friction can be harnessed and put back into the workings of the appliance/design, Many thanks for your time in reading this and hope for any replies positive or negative the dream will live on in my head and heart  :)  Mark Smith 

Question by McJesus    |  last reply

Why should perpetual motion be impossible?

Our laws of physics are quite clear when it comes to the impossible.You can not produce more energy within a system than what actually goes into it.And since friction will always be a thing in our real world perpetual motion is simply impossible.With this or quite similar reactions all good scientists end the conversation.We know it is not possible, so why bother...If all that is stopping are laws of physics, then it is time to redefine "perpetual motion".Another term for it would be "free energy" as we would have to draw energy from nothing to keep it moving.Solar cells provide free energy the same way as wind- or hydro generators, we even use waves on the ocean to produce electricity...Perpetual motion seems to be defined by mechanical things and motion only.And free energy seems to be defined as bogus only while ignoring the realities.We simply can't use the same terms for everything if they are in fact totally different things....A motor running off a solar cell would be a perpetual motor if you widen the energy term a bit here.The impossible energy to run the motor comes out of nowhere - our solar cell generates electricity from sunlight.And a simple water wheel in a stream will power a mill for as long as water runs down the stream....Humanity and science say this is not free energy as we take energy from other system to make it move.And of course it is a dead simplification anyways.You get the picture though.So far humanity has only managed to tap into a very few forms of energy out there in any direct form.Solar cells come to mind first of course.In a way they utilise radiation to transform it into DC electricity.Then we have all sorts of mechanical energy transfer, from generators over windmills to the modern recovering brakes in electric vehicles.Last but not least we have heat, steam engines, nuclear reactors and so on.The laws of physics however know a few more forms of energy....We seek out new ways to "generate" more electricity than ever before, like fusion reactors.What we don't seek is understanding what we always had already.All we do it to try to "generate" electricity.It is what powers our world but it is only a tiny fraction of what is possible.We burn fuel in a comustion chamber to make piston go up and down.Only to transfer this motion into a rotary one to finally drive our wheels.Most of the energy available in the fuel is wasted this way.Making it slightly more efficient took us over 100 years....Thinking about using the fuel more directly does not even come to our minds.So why bother to consider any other possible form of energy to drive our world.We are stuck in definitions no one really understands because most of the used terms have more than one use and meaning.We fail to open our minds to other possibilities just because "that's how it is and always will be".Flying to the moon?? Impossible!We did it anyway....Using batteries to provide electricity to entire towns? What a joke!In South Australia they do it anyway and with great success as well.Powering entire cities just from wind and solar energy? Are you joking?Well, companies invest an awful lot of money here and they wouldn't do so if it would not make massive profits...So why again should perpetual motion be any different?At some stage it was hillarious to even think our world would spin around the sun.....

Topic by Downunder35m    |  last reply

I know there is no such thing as perpetual motion? Why is that? Answered

Okay, no such thing as perpetual motion. Why is that? What about something that will run for a year before it has to be started up again. I guess what Im saying is people just slam perpetual motion and ignore it. But, what if? What if you only have to start it again once a year, a month, a week or even once a day. Don't you think we should look into this result?

Question by BluTiger    |  last reply

Is there really a theory behind the hojo motor scam? Answered

I ran into it on line.  More truthfully, it ran into me.  I've never heard of it.  I do know it's a scam, you can't spend $100.00 at the hardware store and build a device that supplies 120 volts at 2oo amps to power a house.  The whole thing did pique my curiosity, just like a gasifier or hovercraft or flying lawnmower would.  The problem is that if you try to find just information on what the thing is all you get is page after page after page of scam sites or people trying to sell plans for some mythical device. The only thing I've been able to ferret out is that it's some kind of perpetual motion device that will power my whole neighborhood if I spend 9 hours building it.  I like to think none of my fellow humans are silly enough to believe that. Anyway, without trying to tell me you have one powering your house and an orphanage out of kindness or trying to sell me plans please explain the theory behind it.  Sorry if I sound grumpy, I've been battling scam sites trying to look legitimate for the last hour.

Question by AngryGuy70    |  last reply

Challenge build my perpetual motion device this is the only one that makes sense PLEASE HELP

Guys please help me out i havent built this device yet but it has to work trust me read my instructable and it should make perfect sense thanks to all who contribute if you have any questions or theory of why it wont work shoot me an email

Topic by BTBAMYEAH    |  last reply

Where can I get a monopole magnet? Answered

I saw a video on You tube (, in it he makes a perpetual motion machine using a monopole magnet (a magnet with only one pole North or South).

Question by TurboFish    |  last reply

I have idea for infinite energy!

I have idea for an infinite energy or perpetual motion. I know that perpetual motion is impossible because it contrary with firs and second law of thermodynamics. I have learned those laws on  school too but I asked my physics teacher ( I'm in high school now 16 years old) and he said that it looks possible. The problem is that I'm from Kosovo,and there is no any labs of that type where I can make my experiment. If you have any idea about any of this labs which are interested on infinite energy experiments. I would appreciate your help.

Question by Mrfatjonable    |  last reply

Would this idea to prolong battery life work? (NOT perpetual motion, just extended life!) Answered

A few days ago, I designed a self-charging battery system using a dc motor attached to a rechargeable battery pack that turns a generator via gears, similar to how a car battery works, converting kinetic energy from the motor to electrical energy with the generator and looping back to the battery. I've modified the idea to reduce friction as much as I can so that the motor and generator are directly attached now, keeping energy from being lost to friction between gears. Here's a crappy diagram:    |-----|--------------|                     |--------------|-----|    |       |  Motor       |-------||-------|Generator|      |    | | ---|--------------|                     |--------------|---| |    | |------------|----------------|------------------------| |    |--------------|  Battery      |--------------------------|                       |----------------| I know that 100% efficiency is impossible, I'm not trying to get all the energy back, and I'm not trying to create energy. I'm trying to loop the energy that isn't lost to friction and other factors back to the battery, hypothetically charging the battery up a little to somewhat extend the life. I realize that it will eventually go dead no matter what I do due to the laws of thermodynamics. What I want to know if this would increase the battery life enough to be worth incorporating in a design. (I know the motors should be attached to the battery by two different ends but its actually supposed to be a rechargeable battery pack so one motor is attached to input in to charge the battery and the other is output so the battery powers it. Plus if I tried to draw the wires like that it would've taken forever.)

Question by ALogan97    |  last reply

How to perfect the pendulum wave?

I have made this pendulum wave and done a lot of fine tuning but I just can’t see how to get it perfect and to go back to the snake again. Which ball is the problem?

Question by Kiwi girl    |  last reply

magnet gravity

Couldn't, with well position magnets, create an orbit around a central magnet? Almost like perpetual motion? I've been playing around with magnets lately, and I've gotten magnets to do 2 full revolutions around other magnets before coliding. Is it possible?

Topic by guyfrom7up    |  last reply

Is there any existing street lighting that uses perpetual motion as its energy source? free energy would be good right??

Free energy in street lighting might be better than solar energy in street lightings. It just need to have a time schedule in order for it to switch on at night and switch off during the days 

Question by RayT58    |  last reply

Why the hell can't people use Google? Answered

How do I cure acne? Where do I get a 23.5kW amp for a 32" subwoofer? How do I make a 32" subwoofer? Does anyone have the schematics for a perpetual motion machine? ... F@#K... Why does reading questions on Instructables make me want to scream obscenities? Can none of these people do any research, or do they expect to have any inane question that pops into their head answered for them?

Question by omnivaal    |  last reply

Does the magnet motor really work and keep spinning?

See it as a last hurray before the forum here disappears ;)For ages we have people claiming that they managed to build a working magnet motor.Basically not even a perpetual motion engine but something with enough energy output to spare.As soon as they surfaced to make it all public the vanished.Most say they only vanished because it was just another fraud as those things simply can't work - physiscs won't allow it.If that was really always the case then why did some of these people AND their families disappear after till publishing details and being active in their communities?Either way: If there is a will then there is a backseat - or so they said in the 70's ;)People are still willing to fall for every foolish plan they can find on the net, waste their money and find out that, well, it just won't work.If you dig long and deep enough though you get a glimpse of what really is possible without violating our laws of physics.And yes, done and applied properly even a magnet motor is possible.The do's and don'ts of trying to build a magnet motor:Once you got hooked you have to start somewhere.Usually some V-gate or similar that ALMOST worked for you already.Anyway, you will have to encounter the appearently only reason why these motors won't work rather quickly.It seems impossible to provide accelleration without having at least point in the cycle where the binding can't be overcome through inertia or mechanical trickery.So the first thing you really need to learn is to forget what you already know!Treat magnets like a think you never knew at all, something rare and very special.Don't use your schoolbook knowldege or what you learnt at university - only use what you discover yourself!!!Make your conclusions no matter how wrong they seem - you will find out soon enough if something was flawed.I, for example, "wasted" endless hours when there was nothing on TV.Just some good music running and playing around with my magnets.Adding metal strips, filing them down, seeing how they react at different angles and distances to each other.Once you are at the stage of getting over this last bit of forces that ruins it all you need to learn how to think totally out of the box!You can't see the magnetic field lines, can't really use magntic viewer foils on the running thing - you have to try things!Take 5 magnets and create and array with a very strong pole on one side and a very weak on the other - realise that the manetic field lines don't care whether or not they go back to their own magnet!See for yourself how strips of metel from some old transformer core will provide a pathway for those field lines.See for yourself where the "threshold" is from just "shielding" a part of the magnet to "re-shaping" the field itself.See for yourself how a magnet that you bring close to one pole also affects the opposite pole of the "attacked" magnet ;)And did I already say you should try to forget what you think you know until you could actually check it and all possible variations yourself? ;)Butter on the toast....For mostly the reason to keep it shorter I just assume you tried to build something based on the classic V-gate motor and that you found this topic somehow...For other motors most of what comes now still aplies in one way or another though.Binding:I speak of binding if a motor has one or more points during a full cycle where it gets stuck.Not just a bit of attraction, enough to ruin the entire motion.There are two forms of binding forces that I identified as important.1. Opposite poles.2. Equal poles.Just means your binding is either caused by too much attraction to move further or that the next (set of) magnet(s) repells too much.Either is bad ;)Redirected forces:It is a bit impossible to only provide a force in the exactly needed direction.For example when it is more displacement forces driving the wheel - going more sideways than in a true rotional motion.Means nothing more than that a lot of potential energy is literally wasted.Shielding:You can't shoild magnetic fields!I still use the term to indicate that I am "wasting" a part of the magetic field - I don't want this bit to interfere with operations.Flux directing:Or fluxing...I use this whenever I want to affect the shape or reach of a magnets field.E.g.: by adding a rod to "extend" one pole or by providing a "shunt" strip between two magnets.A way to get field lines where they are needed most.So much for the basic terms that might pop up from now on ;)Before you can worry about lost energy from redirected forces you need to overcome your binding points.This is only possible through shielding and flux directing!Of course it also includes the possibe use of arrays to create a field with a specific shape.Let me try with some classic examples you might have faced already:Where your V changes from wide to slim you always get stuck, so you did it again by using two V's in line.Hoping that you could use what one V has in excess to overcome the binding on the ther side.Nice thinking only you forgot that your max power output is about half way through the V ;)So you realised this and added two more V's on your roll with a 120° phase shift.Does much better now but still prefers to bind no matter what you try.So what went wrong?The approach did ;)You compensated for a binding force by wasting what you have in rotational energy - to say it simple.You might have tried some mechanical lifting and flipping as well to get closer but never close enough.Our first array....By now you realised that the junction between wide open and really narrow ruins your motor.Check where the thing stops without the next magnets in line.Then check the opposite arrangement and see where the next bit would stop the thing.This is your binding area.Mark this area.Now test where your machine creates the most pull or push to get it going.Do this by finding the strongest starting point.Mark this again.Now take a look at your markings!You will see a angular relation.E.g.: You max push/pull is 50° away from your max binding point.This angle defines how many parallel V-gates you need on your drum.You want then arranged so that whenever you have a max binding point you also have a max push/pull point at the same time.This is you basic V-Gate array allowing you compensate for a lot just by using a better design.Or second array....We now need a way to compensate at least a little bit of the binding forces by redirecting and shielding some field lines.If you like fairy floss then grab some ;)We face the problem that we use a displacemnt force to keep things rolling.Fairy floss on a stick can help to visualise ;)Grab two sticks so their stick end comes out either side of your fist.Do the same with the other hand.Having two colors helps as well and gives it some flavour.Try to align those double cones so they create areas where their forces would cancel ech other out.Meaninf for example when one north pole is close enough to another south pole to create a flattened field.You realise soon that angles are not really that relevant here, only distance ;)You can cheat by adding some (smaller but strong) magnets in little arrays between the closed and open ends of your V.Keep the distances from the previous power tests in mind though!!!For example if the closed end would just keep pushing with little binding due to having a long magnet bar on top then you focus on providing a path where the adverse push from the open V is mostly compensated.Or third array...We need some balance in the system now, so why not use magnets for the weights ;)You want to place them so they increase the push/pull forces!Helps to have a big collection of various sizes and shapes....Please also consider strips or bars of silicicium rich steel (transformer cores) to brigde from one magnet to another to get a good balanced system or just adding short pieces on the underside of magnets.Ok, where are we now?We have a phase shifted array of 3 to 6 V-gates.We have it properly balanced and still use these long mangets as the driving bars on top - or even multiple if you have more than one V per array part.And that thing is causing all our binding issues.....Common solution is now to just lift the offending bar up or to increase the distance until it can provide force again that we need.Unless you are already an artsist for building you own little steam engines froms cratch it is the worst possible approach.Creates too much friction, uses to much energy!We think we are almost there.....We can't waste ANY energy until we figured out how to get more than enough of it.A mechanical gear system is far from perfect but offers precision.A simple push rod solution works well too if properly balanced and the mechanics allow for a smooth operation.I leave it up to your what you prefer.We can't just change the lenght of our magnet bar but we can cheat - a lot.One good option to check for yourself how a magnet if a fixed rotational thingy reacts when you spin a magnet close by.Even with really good bearings you will realise the binding forces between them are not equal if you keep the same distance while rotating.Now re-think your engine desing - I know it hurst if ou realise now your magnet arrangement wasn't ideal.Do you have a north-south bar on top of a V with one row of magnets facing north and the other facing south?Really I am sorry if you do but it is not all lost unless you glued your magnets in place as a permanent solution.You can leave it if you wish but it might be harder to apply the required cheats - there is ways if you look good ;)Why a V-gate where both rows of magnets are orientated the same way?It is just easier and more flexible as you then can focus on the driving bar(s) ;)Let me explain the difference as I see it:With a fixed north and south pole on your bar you seem to be able to use "more" of the magnets.And it seems to be the logical way at a first glance.But now that you learned and discovered so much yourself already, ask yourself:Does it really matter if there a north and south pole available on the bar?Wouldn't two rows of north facing magnets with matching magnets on the bar to the same things?They would....And in such an arrangement we have almost endless ways to "cheat" physics as we know it.Especially if you have two V's per drum and have one facing north and the other south ;)For the standard single V the trick is to rotate the "magnet bar" in a controlled way so when the binding forces of the V are max the forces the bar can apply are minimised.You can see that nicely if you manually rotated the wheel and watch how the bar reacts to the field.At some points it wants to push, at others pull and at still others it would love to just flick over - use this behaviour in your rotating mechanism!You want to keep the max possible forces for the longest possible time and keep the flicking over time in sync with the drum rotation.Look up on the many ways to do a flipping motion by mechanical means to see how you can best implent one into a rotary action.If you were a really good observer during your experiments you now realise that you start to also deal with friction and mechanical losses and counteracting forces.We can not reduce all of them to zero by simple cheats and mechanical solutions.Whenever we try we must do this in the most efficient way possible - even if it means cheating on our own constructions.Remember playing with the magnets to see how they react at various distances to each other and ferrous metals? ;)There is a fine line between too much and too little ;)Try for yourself on your whell with a simple bar mechanism that allow distance adjustment.Do you really get mor "driving" force the closer you get with the bar? ;)Where is the point between effective force and you needing too much force to keep the bar at this distance? ;)Do you notice how the distance affects the forces in your binding areas? ;)Cheating the cheat ;)Now that we have to find the opimal distance for our bar to avoid changing this ones as well on a constant base during the rotation, we should see how to make this the least energy wasting.You need some sort of counter balance for your mechanics and it would be nice to somehow affect our bar magnets so we don't need to much mechanical energy to make them rotated and flick over.Why not use a drum around them ? ;)When you need a reduced force you can have a metal (ferrous of course) roatate in place.As a drum you would just cut out the parts you don't need and add weight where needed to compensate the imbalance in the mechanical system.Like for example having the most "shielding" metal between bar and drum when the binding forces would be max.Hence the need for correct distance to prevent unwanted binding forces from the drum parts ;)You can even influence the width of your magnetic bar to some extend this way ;)If done properly you now wasted a few weeks in your shed and have a motor that still is only very close to keep running forever once you gave it a little push.Let's say you did a really bad job.Means you still have one or more destinct binding points left.In this case I suggest you focus on them after finding out if they are mechanical or magnetic in origin.If you did a half decent job then your machine should be able to start running from multiple points in the rotation.But not in some others.Perfect would be two equally sized areas per revolution where it seems the thing would just need to be started a few degrees later to overcome the power loss.If you reached the max point and going a few degrees more again start to reduce the power output you are good to go.What exactly haapend so far, assuming all is still well in your shed?We tricked our system in various ways to actually utilise the push/pull forces our motor provides.And we learned what to do and how to do it so we overvome almost everything.Just to finally fail like all those idiots on the net before - or did we??? ;)Isn't there something really vital we missed in our construction while we cheated so much?There is but I can't blame you if you have not picked it up much earlier in your construction.We rotate our magnet bar now to compensate for the binding effect by mecahnical means.Ever wondered if we could more rotation and changing orientations in our V?The magnets won't mind too much if they are put in with north and south alternating as long as you rotate the bar correspondingly.Just instead of one spin or flip during max binding you do it for every single magnet in the row.... ;)The shielding drum though operates as normal with this.Bit complicated, lots of mechanical design involved - I know!!!And for what exactly???To use what have not even touched yet - electrical energy produced by our now alternating drum ;)I know :( Now you are whacking your head against the wall like I did so many years ago, sorry for that experience!But would it mean that coils will cause additional losses and binding forces?Of course it does, that's why it is so much fun trying to cheat physics!This approach is usually just neglected due to the ill thinking that a magnet motor would provide free energy for everyone.Simple fact is that no matter how good you are it will be impossible to get more than a magnetic machine that almost works forever - you won't be able to compensate for all losses and utilise them as energy unless you either have multiple high degrees or spend a lot of time in your shed - a lot...Since a full rebuild is now due anyway I leave it up to you to figure out how desgin it, I just throw in some "ideas" here:We only use the outside of our magnetic drum, this needs to change.And before you go into a mechanical frency to figure how to place inner magnets that rotate with the drum to compensate for dead zones: Just don't! You will get a headache and waste too much time.We can use all those inwards facing magnets to our advantage though.A lot of the arrays, if not all, could be replaced by creating a rotor to hold the magnets.Not in the traditional sense though but to guide the field lines to a common center.There is a need for a rather wide distance between the magnets so you can provide a ferrous pathway that won't just fully shortcut the fields.It needs to be enough so that a coil array placed on the inside will be subjected to changing fields- north south...I leave it up to to decide if a low resistance or ahigher output voltage is the better option.Either way we are able to produce some electrical energy as long as the drum rotates.But we only need extra energy for those ares where the system does not produce extra energy and in fact eats all our energy up.One way would be to store the electrical energy in a nice supercapacitor and to use it for some electromagnet that is placed in the right spot and activates at the right time.And yes it works.Far better though is to utilise resonance.We aim for a fully harmonic system so we can actually try to figure out where and if there is a way to produce more neergy that what we feed into it.Perpetual motion means a system produces enough energy to sustain motion.If motion is sustained AFTER getting to a certain speed by other means it is perpetual from then on.We have the impossible if a machine produces more energy than what is required for the motion AND if we can utilise this power.Sadly we have no means to utilise friction energy....So a machine that sustains motion would already be in what is called "over unity" !?In a sense yes, but not in a usable as it will discredit you quickly.A resonant electrical system is able to handle way more energy with way less resistance - or losses.Now to give you the final homework lesson and risk being watched again:What do you think happens if a resonant LC system has a set of rotating magnets at a matching speed? ;)Right! It won't be able to stay in sync because we still have this firction and "binding" problem on our hands.....What does that mean in reality though?The spacing of the rotor is critical, that is clear already,And our electrical system is never fully in sync with our drum, clear again.But it is still a resonant system, totally unclear, now I lost you ;)See it as two independent frequencies, one defined by rotor spacing and our desired operational speed, the other what results from our losses and running slightly behind.Imagine you would finetune the LC system to actually match the frequency that results from the losses....Suddenly it is not longer tuned to a theoretical speed but to the real speed.And due the the now full resonace the phase shift now is able to provide extra push for our system ;)Explains nicely why basically all magnet motor machines that claimed to work and disappeared only worked at a fixed speed ;)What are the final conclusions here then - is it really possible to do the impossible?I say it depends on your time, workshop and willingness to think out of the box.Impossible, certainly not.In case you came to the same impossible conclusion after neglecting your family and friends for weeks you now wonder how much more might be possible than just keeping it going for almost forever.For this you need to understand and basically feel how magnetic field lines interact and react, including electromagnetic fields.A magnetic field is a form of energy.We usually created this by putting an awful lot of energy into coild during the manufacturing process.And like a battery magnets lose their energy over the time, especially in bad conditions.Still we treat this energy as unusable because we can't seen to be able to utilise static fields at all.If neither the coil, nor the magnet moves there is no change in field and with that no electricity.Does that mean though the megnetic energy does not go through the coil? ;)Nope, it is still there, going nowhere.Otherwise we would not need power plants and just use earth's magnetic field instead.Now to drive your brain into true overdrive for the final:Did you ever watch these nice videos where a great physics teacher of the old kind shows how (AC) electromagnetic field work?Or maybe you had one of those in school?Remember how a metal cylinder placed ner a tall electromagnet starts spinning?Often used to explain the righthand rule ;)The cylinder spins due to the eddy currents created - like the disk did in your old school electrical meter in the fuse box.And doesn't our drum now support a changing magnetic field on the inside while it rotates?What do you think happens to "drums" placed off center and close to those magnets? You think they would spin?And, if made from aluminium or copper, wouldn't the field lines stillpass through and reach the electrical coil(s) ;)Couldn't you utilise the drum motion during the times of not enough spin? ;)Considering they are basically short cut inductors: Couldn't you use a "coil" that still spins while producing electricity? ;)Once you can answer this with confidence you will know how to build a magnet motor able to produce excess energy.I am not saying it is easy to include all this knowledge into a simple and basic design.But I do say that one you understand the relation between static permanent magnetic fields and electromagnetic ones you are a winner.I'll give you one final hint:Every electrical current or electromagnetic field near enough to a permanent magnet will influence its field!You only need to decide where the electrical energy is used to influence permanent magnets is a positive way without using more than what the system is able to provide.Then, and only then, will you motor to be able to start (with no load) from any position and keep gaining speed until resonance is reached.The amount of energy you can draw once this speed is reached is only defined by how much it drives the system out of resonance.Once the load is greater than what the system can sustain the speed slows, resonance is lost, efficiency down the drain.A good motor of desktop size is able to provide about 100W of extra electrical energy.And no it still isn't over unity or perpetual at all!The magnets deplete and they do it surprisingly fast in a working magnet motor.You are lucky get 6 months of continious use before one or more magnets get too weak.And if you check how much electrical energy was used to give these magnets their abilities you realise that even two years of usage wouldn't make up for it.Still nice to have a machine that runs for a few years with no load attached or that powers some fan, lamp, whatever for a few weeks without batteries or fuel.

Topic by Downunder35m  

Small generators.

Most everyone here knows (I assume) how the generators work in RC cars and there's an instructable that shows it can be used to output electricity. Elementary science at it's best. If any of you have took them apart you'd notice it draws eletricity from touching the center metal pole. Two little brush/copper/zinic contacts. Basically I've been trying to think of ways to extract eletricity without having a need for them. They cause friction. Uh-oh, a few lightbulbs lit up in peoples minds by now and they're going "oh no not another person trying to beat the laws of thermodynamics and acheive perpetual motion" Yep. As we all know eletricity CAN jump if it's powerful enough and arc, but this doesn't make it too safe either. However it's a small scale model to start out and can be contained so the arc won't be a problem. My other problem is the calculations. They need to be precise. To get it working I need a low rpm generator that will generate high output. For this it requires torque which kinda kicks me, it will also need to use (I assume) rare earth magnets. So basically lets stick with my latter problem since it's more down to earth. I need a fairly small generator if possible (It can be larger if no other solutions are present) At least the size of a walnut I don't plan to make anything immense in size as I lack the funding. As pointed, small is key. Not to be redundant but to paint a clearer picture. It will also need to generate decent voltage at a low rpm speed. I cannot emphasis this enough because it's one of the key parts to make my idea function. Hum... Yeah that about covers it. So if any tech wiz's are out there that know of such thing I'd apperecaite it if you'd part the knowledge to me :P I'm also very aware that perpetual motion is eh, impossible... by current standards. The intention of this project is to deepen my knowledge and figure out why things won't work, figure out solutions and on so forth. A learning project for now and perhaps one day it might become something far more awesome.

Topic by Dark-half    |  last reply

ID/Creationism trolling an academic requirement?

This could explain a lot. (From via Slashdot )Apparently, the course on "Intelligent Design and Christian Apologetics" at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary has, as a requirement worth 20% of the final grade, "(4) provide at least 10 posts defending ID that you've made on "hostile" websites, the posts totalling 3,000 words, along with the URLs (i.e., web links) to each post (worth 20% of your grade)."The next time I see a lengthy, ad-hominem-laden, scientifically dubious argument for Intelligent Design on this site I'm going to wonder whether it is a college student fulfilling course requirements by trolling. I notice that reading the replies to your 3,000 words of propaganda isn't required. Now we just have to find whoever it is offering photocopies of Tesla's secret notebooks and plans for perpetual motion machines if you post enough stuff supporting overunity HHO generators.Note to those so inclined: this is not flamebait, I'm reporting a piece of news relevant to this community (because of our semi-regular flamewars debates about ID etc.). Flames will be reported as spam and subsequently ignored. Intelligent Discussion will be welcomed.

Topic by PKM    |  last reply

Grid Tie and Induction Motors

Yes, I know it's nearly 3am on the east coast... but and idea struck me. So the idea is to feed small amounts of mechanical power into the power grid. Not necessarily run the meter backwards, but supplement power consumption.I've researched grid tie inverters - which are very expensive. For those wondering, a grid tie inverter is feeds mains power back into the grid by syncing phase angle and phase (no dead shorts :) ) and applying slightly higher voltage. They are very efficient and really not within a college student experiment budget :pSo I was thinking... Rather than go from mechanical to DC to AC to grid - go from mechanical to AC to grid VIA an induction motor. As a proof of concept, use a DC motor + battery to turn an induction motor. Plugged into the grid, in theory, should apply current. Oh, but the phase you say? How do you prevent a dead short?"I've thought of this -- before applying mechanical power - have the grid bring the induction motor up to speed. Then try to turn faster (apply a torque) with the DC motor, for example. In theory, the amount of extra power put into the grid will be related to the slip angle of the motor - which will also control the speed of the input (so you can't go over speed by too much).Keep in mind that this whole battery business is just a proof of concept sort of thing - I'm not talking perpetual motion or any hohaa craziness. In the end, the final mechanical input will be around 200 watts. I expect this to be very low efficiency (likely 50%ish), 100W isn't an answer to the energy issues - but it's an experiment. It's also not going to come even close to driving the meter backwards, but it should run (as supplement) my laptop + two to three 13w CFL's :DI think the theory is feasible -- the inspiration comes from flywheel driven UPS systems. An induction motor is driven while mains power is on to keep a flywheel in motion. When the power goes out, the FW drives the motor and feeds to local grid.I'm thinking of using a "low" rpm induction motor.... If I recall, ceiling fans are 16 pole? So that's 60Hz2*2/16=450rpm... Add ceiling fan motor to the list of things to hunt for :) Looking at the one above my head, it looks like it even has a nice bolt pattern for some sort of pulley shenanigans :DCan someone either throw some ice water on me and slap me for being an idiot -- or let me know if I've found a boat to Valhalla.Oh, and my apologies for dancing around the "mechanical input" details.... There's a reason for this, I promise :) In any case, insight and information is appreciated :)

Topic by trebuchet03    |  last reply

Sleep deprived brain fart...Solar Panel Lightbox Generator

OK first off let me tell you I don't know much at all about solar panels, wiring, or electrical at all. So to those that want to flame save your breath. Now at 3:30 am my time I woke up and since I couldn't sleep logged on to Instructables because something was bothering me. The something that wouldn't allow me to get back to the sleep which I craved was the idea for a Solar Panel Lightbox Generator. Now I see the logic in thinking about some of the perpetual motion generators and how they are impossible. And I believe my idea is not possible either, but till I get some info from someone that knows more about electric and solar panels I don't think I will be able to rest. So here is the idea, someone please explain how my thinking is wrong. Build a box of solar panels faceing inward with a light source inside of the box. once the panels start to charge a battery, use the battery to power the light. First off I know direct sunlight is optimal for the panels, but I'm thinking "outside/Inside" the box. How much light does it take for a panel to actually start creating current? How much energy does the light use to create the light? How do you measure how much light (candle power?) a bulb/LED or what ever produces and is it enough to " power " a solar panel/cell? My thinking is if a LED/incandescent/haligion light can produce enough light, with the right amount of solar cells it could power its self after start up. I know things degrade, bulbs burn out and all that. What I guess I'm saying is mathematically could this happen? Since I know so very little about solar and electrical in general is it possible? And if it's possible could more panels be added to make more power than it uses? There's my brain fart, feel free to point out the flaws so I can get some sleep tonight.

Topic by RedneckEngineer    |  last reply

V-Gate Motor, what is fake, what is real, why is it not possible

If we look at so called magnet motors than they usually share the common works of a V-Gate somewhere.So with the energy crisis blooming it might make sense to take a look on how these fance toys are supposed to work, or not work.You can check Wikipedia and watch a lot of Youtube videos showing magnet motors or just V-Gate magnet toys in operation.As the name suggests the permanent magnets are placed in a V shape configuration.Either linear or in a circle / on a drum.And the working theory suggests that if you place one or two magnets at the right spot in relation to the V than forces will make things move.It is great fun to play with a V-Gate just to figure out how the magnets actually interact.The longer you play with it and experiment the closer you think you are to actually make it work.No matter what you try though there is always a spot or an area where the magnet do the exact opposit of what they are supposed to do, the bind instead of making things move.Especially in the videos you can see a lot of interesting ways trying to compensate for this or to fool you.And the thing really no one wants you to know is that the pushing forces you want actually reverse half way through the cycle.But at this point their forces are already quite low.Would make sense now to just use that part of the V that actually works and to repeat it, doesn't it?If you do then you always end up with the same as what you had before, just more sections of it ;)And since in nature everything is equal we can not make the unwanted forces disappear and only keep the ones we want.Or can we? ;)A flywheel is a good option to preserve energy and to store it.No wonder then that people like to go big and include as many magnets on the drum as possible, preferably big and heavy as well...And since we can see in some videos that you can even make it spin by moving the magnet bar by hand: How hard can it be to do it properly?A flywheel needs energy to get going, especially if heavy...If the system would have the energy to make this spin then for obvious reasons it would only get faster and faster - but none of these toys do this...And well, moving your hand requires energy too ;)But combined with a mechanical or magnetic link it shall work just fine, timing is everything...And so you keep going and trying and in reality get nowhere at all.As said, you can't have only positive forces without the corresponding negative force(s).Modern approaches to the problem....The famous Yildiz generator uses all sorts of tricks.For example electromagnets to cancel out the field of permanent magnets, powered by internal generator coils of course.Or shielding around some magnets to direct the magnetic field in other directions.Others try to use a different angle for the magnets so seemingly one side of the field is stronger than the other.And the real enthusiast even machine their own magnet shapes from block magnets to get the field lines where they want them to be.In some case you can even find claims of commercial products in operation, with a convient link to order you own on a long term contract.This seems to suggest that there is indeed a way to create at least electricity for "free"....Of course this only made more plausible by the "security packets" included with these lease agreements.Sealed units, 24/7 remote camera surveillance, online connection for remote monitoring and on the go adjustments....And, no without the constant feedback from base operations through the online connection the "generators" will just stop.In a way all this only makes the search for the holy grail of magnetism more interesting.Just consider this:If it is worth to waste god knows how much money to create elaborate fakes with supporting websites and articles seeded all over the net, then why is it worth it?A real money scam would be exposed quite quickly and the websited disappear with the business.And if it is a real and registered business then they have to make the money somehow in legal ways.A balanced approach to the realities and options to make V-gate motor/generator as a workable toy....We know we can cheat and we know we can use modern materials.To make an interesting toy we would need to make it look and work interesting.Just a moving drum is boring and prone to be called a fake right away.Some fancy lever moving the magnet bar is nice but already well too abused to pass.Gearboxes and cranks however are not used that often due to the complexity of creating them in your garage.And some mechancial master creation displayed in museums of other places as "perpetual" motion machines are insanely complex.It comes down to first mapping the areas of negative impact, then finding ways to compensate for them.Preferably in some fancy optical way.Like the magician uses slide of hand to fool you you distract the audience by providing them things to focus on.The more focus on the workings behind it all the more they forget to understand physics ;)For example: If you want to lift the magnet bar you can use a fancy looking crank wheel that is overbalanced for the binding forced of the magnets - fools the unsuspecting person to think you actually eliminated the forces while in reality the wrong balance causes a problem later in the spin.And for those who were able to fllow that trail correctly you have something like and additional magnet moving to compensate fr this wrong balance.....Just make sure you seemingly complete the circle of force elimination back to where it started ;)Mumetal...Not, it does not come a cow....And yes, it is a real thing and not a fancy make up free energy freaks created ;)Unlike normal steel or iron Mumetal is extremely good in directing magnetic fields.For example the positioning head of your hard drive uses a pair of magnets on Mumetal plates to make sure the close proximity won't affect the disks storing your data.Now, some people on the net use these features to really fool you badly when it comes to magnets.From magnets in loudspeakers they misuse the term "shielded" to state Mumetal actuall shield the field of a permanent magnet.True is only that Mumetal provides pathway for the magnetic field that is thausands of times easier to follow than air.For example:A strong manget that still creates a noticable field at let's say 3cm distance.A Mumetal of 4cm in diameter placed 1cm apart would make the affects of the magnetic field disappear at 3cm.But not because the field is shielded, because the magnetic field lines now have an easy way to follow.They just "can't be bothered" anymore to go around the plate.In terms of utilising these effects for a V-Gate toy we can get really creative indeed.Some classic V-Gates use a magnet facing north on one side and a magnet facing south on the other side of the magnet bar and drum (left,right).Proving a Mumetal strip between them increases the field strenght on the other side quite a bit.It also allows for a much smaller extension of the field to the sides.And whatever area is covered by Mumetal will not show such a strong field, or none at all.So it would make sense to create a fancy gearbox to rotate a magnet bar.With every set of magnets on the drum the magnet bar makes one rotation.Like a real DV motor so to say.While the magnets attract each other the "active" side is exposed, and when the point comes where they would start to bind the "shielded" side is exposed to the drum.And like with all good mechnical toys we would have to find a way to revers the rotationthree times during one rotation of the drum to "compensate" for the reverse changes with a magnet bar that has a fixed spacing.Pushing instead of lifting....If two mangnets are used for the magnet bar it becomes obvious that a lot of "force" goes sideways instead of being used to actually push the drum.Hence the V shape to fool you the shape actually makes pushing possible to start with.Now read carefully and try to follow so you are not getting fooled by the explanation how to fool other people:For get an even base of understanding I will start where the closed end and the open end of the V meet on the drum, right where the pushing action starts.If the distance of the bar magnets dicreses with the V shape than we get even pushing forces working for us without the problem of reversal half way through the rotation.However we do get insane binding forces right when we get back to the start point of our rotation.Here we flip the magnet bar one full turn while the drum moves from pushing to pulling/binding.The direction of this rotation is important as it needs to match what the drum does.At the point of half rotation of the bar the single magnets move outwards again to be back in the start position once the rotation is complete.Complex mechanics, I know...The good thing is that you can always claim you get the energy for the action from the flipping of the magnets and that of course is not done by the mechanis, the magnet bar is flipped by the interaction of the magnets on the drum when the cycle repeats and drives the mechanics due the the inertia of the drum ;)So, is it possible to make it work without cheating and fooling?Sure it is.All you need to do is close the loop and make sure there is always more energy going into moving the drum than stopping it ;)Of course things would be much easier if you would find a material that actually blocks a magnetic field similar to what an opposing field would do but without the involved repelling forces.Like sunglasses for magnetic fields so to say.

Topic by Downunder35m