85Views6Replies

Author Options:

DC magnetics motors and anything else DC Answered

I'm having inventors block figured i'd try to get some other users talking about ideas for dc projects and i'd get a different angle on my work so please post.

Discussions

0
Qcks
Qcks

7 years ago

Any DC idea that pops into my head eh?

How about polymerization of long chain alkanes from simple Methane?

Electrochemical projects use DC voltages more readily then AC currents (they produce more stable products too).

So... Let's say you take a natural gas pipeline and hook it up to a pressure pump so you get liquid methane out.
Now that you have liquid methane, run the methane through an ionizer. By ionizer I mean something similar to a electric lifter or an ionic breeze aparatus. how to make these is accessible online in a number of places.

Basically, You need a high voltage dc powersource connected to a cathode with an extremely high amount of surface area and an anode with a resistor and an extremely small amount of surface area.

Between the Cathode and the Anode of the ionizer insert large amounts of activated charcoal (you can buy activated charcoal at any pet store, in the aquarium supplies).

The carbon provides unsaturated carbon atoms to act as a catalyst for methyl radicalization, and as a source of carbon ions for termination steps.

Now, my main problem with this setup is i think the main product here is going to be Alkenes. Ethene specifically.

So i need a catalyst to make it so i can repeat this process.

If I insert a large amount of steel wool after the anode of the ionizer, the ethene can react with the iron and possible become a butyl-derivative with as much as two degrees of unsaturation.
The Iron Catalyst (it's really more of a reagent), might need to be hydrolyzed with water before any products can be used.

The main product should be a butene produce at that point with the double bond between the second and third carbon (Hoffman stereochemistry), but there's going to be a mixture of products.

Ionizers are a new thing and i don't think the electrochemistry processes that can benefit from them hasn't been explored enough.

0
Sessha
Sessha

Reply 7 years ago

I'm not gonna lie i half ass understood that but that's because where i live is were isolated from anything to further my studies besides a simple electrolysis science project and my class mates where like cool bubbles but all they cared about was fields basketball and music so i didn't expect much but from what i understood i am very interested in learning more like i said anything to do with DC im cool with.

0
Qcks
Qcks

Reply 7 years ago

I was being somewhat vague and trying to focus on the concepts, more then the nitty-gritty. Direct current is good stuff, but, i'm somewhat different in that i'm not an engineer or a physicist, so my interest with Direct Current is going to be different then an electrician or an engineer.

I'll talk a bit about the differences of an ionizer and electrolysis.

Electrolysis breaks chemical bonds by directly substituting an electron into the atomic orbital of an atom. The energy put into an electrolysis cell is directly related to products recovered and the activation energy required to drive the reaction to completion.
Direct Current is best for Electrolysis because the overall reaction only proceeds in one direction at any one time. The Cathode will always be the Cathode. The Anode is always the Anode.
Alternating current isn't the same. Depending on the oscillation of the current, once every thirty picoseconds, the anode becomes the cathode. Depending on your reaction that your doing this can be dangerous. Water is a great example of a bad Alternating current electrolysis. Depending on the hertz of the AC, once every second the anode becomes the cathode, and you get pure oxygen produced right next to pure hydrogen, and since heat is always produced in electrolysis, you get explosions very easily.

There are some logistical barriers to electrolysis. If the electron makes the intermediate steps more unstable then either the reactants or the products, it doesn't typically do well.

With a nod back to my original experiment, Direct Electrolysis on Methane would not result in anything useful.
Methane is something of a ground state molecule.
Hitting it with a free electron, does not result in hydrogen because ripping the hydrogen away from the resulting methyl radical is nearly impossible.
Methyl radicals are more basic then elemental lithium, meaning methyl radicals recapture liberated hydrogen molecules faster then you can produce the hydrogen.
The point at which this is no longer true lies far beyond the point at which methane becomes an unstable plasma (and i have no desire to interact with charged, combustible plasma.).

An Ionizer is a little different. Ionization is not meant to break chemical bonds. It's meant to cause movement. It's part of the reason why you need a high voltage power source to do it. The electrical charge is passed onto a carrier molecule. The negatively charged molecule moves down to the other electrode, where the charge jumps off the molecule. the molecule continues to travel in the direction of the electron flow because there's other molecules pushing it in that direction.
In theory, Ionization doesn't break any chemical bonds, so you don't need to overcome any activation energy. It does, however, create a charged species. These charged chemical compounds may have radically different properties compared to their non-charged analogues.

Because Ionization doesn't entail breaking any chemical bonds, using it on methane means you don't have to worry about methyl radicals. If you don't have to worry about methyl radicals, you can actually have a chemical reaction occur.

Negatively charged methane is more reactive then regular methane because it's negatively charged, but, it's less reactive then the Methyl radical because the negatively charged species does not involve electron rich carbon.
In the charge methane, it has more stability because the negative charge is spread evenly between the four hydrogen atoms (it's more technical then this, but... i'm making this simple.).

The negatively charged hydrogen atoms make the negatively charged methane more open to chemical attack by carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen. Oxygen probably isn't going to produce anything useful, but, carbon is, which is why we use activated carbon in between the two electrodes of the ionizer.

The charged methane is attacked by the activated carbon. It causes the methane to rearrange it's self to maintain chemical stability, and then the molecule (Ethylene) continues to move towards the positively charged electrode. The molecule doesn't undergo further reaction because each additional carbon requires extra hydrogen to maintain it's chemical stability.

0
Sessha
Sessha

Reply 7 years ago

im guessing this is classical ionization not quantum but either way what catches me is my thought on Ethylene is that similar to acetylene can it be used in a cutting torch what about if the cathodes made out of platinum or silver or would this only work with electrolysis i did a little research and these are my best questions at this time and i ran across something about copper chromite but it was connected to hydrogenolysis no idea what that is i just know that it's sepera and involves hydrogen i'm a bit lacking in the chemisty department

0
ggicollegepunjab
ggicollegepunjab

7 years ago

r u talking about Direct Current (DC) or any other else?

0
Sessha
Sessha

Reply 7 years ago

anything dc really like i'm thinking of building a capacitor and from the research i've done it seems mica of glass is best for their permittivity and heat tolerance and i've since learned that the smaller the gap between the plates the greater the area the plates should cover now i'm wondering could i have multiple plates in a vacuum tube or maybe a tube filled with a insulating fluid medium. so basically any dc inspired idea that pops in your head put it on this page or reply to something on the page if it's already on your mind ANYTHING DC is cool with me I'm all team Tesla