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Relativity and why E can't really equal m² Answered

See this topic as something that should be in our now deeply missed random fun section.

Everyone learned in school that there was Albert Einstein and we have to thank him for bringing humanity into the next evolution.
At least in terms of understanding the universe, quantum physics and things like this.
Over the years I developed my own funny theories on why Einstein was so stunned that his calculated energy output from the first nuclear test was off by a factor of about 4 - meaning his calulations were at least 4 times lower than the real thing....

The official story about this "mistake" is something like this in a destilled and drastically simplified way:
"We did our best but this totally new terrain, theory got corrected by real world test.
We now know how to factor all this in correctly for selfsustaining nuclear reactions with a critical mass."
The real explanation with all calculations and so on was document of about 200 pages....
The inoffical story about the first test and the corrected results was a bit longer and personal.
Nicola and ALbert had a long hate-love relationship.
Similar interests and theories got them together, diference in the opinion what can be put into our current math system for calculations and conflic of used terms got them apart.
But like every good couple they always got over their differences and corresponded again - sometimes with a year or two before they were ready to talk to each other again.
In this story Nicola had massive arguments with Albert about the required, sustained and released energy levels for Gadget - the first test of the Trinity series.
To give you an idea why it was so hard for both to understand the other or to accept the other's calculations:
Einstein based all his theories and what we use today when it comes to math.
Tesla however prefered his own mathematical system, one he promoted and got into every day use in many US schools at the time.
In simple world it was based on a big circle, I like to call it the circle of math.
Almost all of our natural constants (that were known back then) were present as lines, multiplication, squre roots and more were as easy as following the right lines and pathways indicated on this circle.
Both system, ours and Tesla's provided the exact same results, the later however without any need for additional "notes" along the way or complicated formulas.
And even worse when it came to energy.
Back then science alrealy knew there is more than what our laws of physics state and what we know.
And what we could not really understand and only proove in theory is now as common as butter on your bread.
Thinks like quantum mechanics, quarks or the fact that you can't observe a light particle on a quantum level directly, only as its sum....
Tesla however already had "a higher understanding" on how different energies interact and how get from one form of energy to another.
Like his tesla transformer, the radio transmitter and so on.
While we had no clue at all Tesla already studied the ionosphere, he had different name for it though.
For him it was obvious that it is not just a reflective barrier for radio waves but that it also has a very energy potential on its own.
Either way the argument was the Albert only factored in the mass of the nuclear material, the explosive forces from the ignition and the corresponding implosion.
Basically everything we could see, explain or theorise about back in the day - and it needed to be possible to claculate it somehow to match expections.
Nicola made the claim that during the explosion also a lot of electromagnetic energy is created together with what he called a break in the fabric of the universe.
Not only that but the electromagnetic shock (we call it now EMP) is not really a single thing but spread basically over the entire know frequency range, including visible light.
The visible light claim was confirmed during the test by shadows burnt into walls....
You can clearly imagine how good old Einstein must have felt seeing his good friend being dead serious about things he could not have the slightest idea about.
After all there never was any test before and certainly none with Tesla present...

How the personal story between the two continued can be found online if you some digging or if you prefer in a well stocked library - yes they still exist as real place ;)
What was mostly left undocumented, at least for public eyes was the implications from the Trinity test series.
That Tesla really was onto something even if the smartest man on the planet could not understand a single word of it became painfully obvious.
At least for Albert....
In his later theories you can find the influence the revelation of finally understanding why his calulations were of and most importantly understanding what Tesla meant by the fabric of the universe.
E does not really equal mc² for quite a few reasons.
Firstly because it is based on the assumption that nothing can be faster than the speed of light.
So did our best to measure it, cheated by making definition of light speed and meter based on the same thing.
I mean: If you take two "unknown" variables to create a result and then use the result to finetune the input- how accurate can it really be?....
Today we long know that there things travelling much faster than the speed of light, for example gravimetric shockwaves when a distant star goes booom.
We detect these "gravity quake" now so we can aim our big telescopes to where it happened and see it in "realtime" once the light arrived long after the shockwave.
And if you dare to re-do the original calculations for Gadget and factor in that a gravimetric shockwave travels about 4 times fast than light you get an idea why Tesla already knew all about it.
What came out of all the offcial calculations and theories is well known.
What is missing from E=mc² was never officially published by Einstein...

Applications for the possible damage to what Tesla called the fabric of the universe.
We are trained to only use our brains in two dimensions.
A bit of it comes from our evolution as since the dawn of time we prefered creating a flat image over creating a sculpture with similar details.
Some people though can use their brin in three dimensions with ease, like when a really good sculpture artist say "The sculture is already in the rock, I only need to remove what is covering it."
And sure enough every color or texture detail of the rock ends up in exactly the right spot to make the result perfect.
Musicians are quite similar, a lot of them have no clue about notes or how read them to create a nice tune on an instrument.
Some only need to hear a song once and can repeat it on all instruments they play like they studied the song for years.
Others hear the vocals only and create tunes and melodies from it that not only match voice act but also reflect on the mood, the feelings.
In some really good songs you only need to hear the instruments and can almost imagine what the singer would sing to it...
A very few can do similar with math, we like to call them a genius because we can not imagine a complex and long number as a series of meaningful images or emotions paired with colors - for example, as there many more ways to deal with numbers...
People like Einstein realised after the Trinity tests that the EMP and corresponding electromagnetic effects are too strong to be measured by anything unless it is from a great distance.
That means, like lumen per area, the strenght of the electromagnetic effects increase exponentially the closer you get to the source.
Still... No big deal right?
Well if you dare you make a frog levitate in a magnetic field, won't be a healthy experience for the frog but it will levitate.
You can look these frog experiment and corresponding scientific explanations up online if you are bored enough one day.
The point is: If a frog can be excluded from gravity in a magnetic field of suffient strenght, orientation and other features, then what else can "float"? ....
Or more to the point: Why exactly does the frog float if he is not magnetic enough to begin with?....

We have no problems visualising or imagining the shockwave from a big explosion like Gadget.
High speed films show us that there would be an expanding perfect sphere, only object like the ground limit this experience, but you see it nice in underwater explosions!
What most people can't even begin to understand is how a shockwave of which the EMP is only a small part acts, travels or what effects it migh thave.
Unlike a normal shockwave we have something like redox reaction happening.
The explosion creates an unimaginably strong electric impulse, a bit like all lightning strikes in world feeding into a single lightbulb at the same point in time.
For argument sake lets say is almost indefinately high.
However, like in an ignition coil this impulse creates and equally strong electromagnetic impulse.
And since the entire reaction at this point is far from over we get a harmonic resonance and feedback system.
Imagine a second you stretch around the globe as a band and then you cut a mm off it - that would be about the timeframe for the most intense electromagnetic field swinging around at all sorts of frequencies.
And during this very short period of time a bubble is created that expands what modern sciensts now call the space - time - continium.
Same name as in the movies but this time based on quantum theories and such things to explain gravity.
An awful lot of energy is trapped inside this bubble and once the initial reaction is over the electromagnetic impuls disappears and only the normal reaction from the explosion continues.
The bubble however does not pop or disappear, it implodes.
All this energy is compressed basically to a single atom size and released.
Sadly this energy has no visible effect, nothing we can observer with our eyes or instruments...
Again we use quantum theories to explain what must happen to find way to it "visible" somehow or to find way to really measure it.
Gravity sensors are a result of these theories and developments and now part of basically any good GPS satellite or space probe.
Some fancy phones have them too.

What would actually happen if we would have found a way to affect the space time continuum in a very controlled way?
Without explosions or such bad things, just by using simple technologies.
Now I would have to explain things in at least four dimensions, which means most readers would shut off now.
Using five would be insane, I know :(
So let try to ignore how things work fr real and do what every good scientist does: simplify to make the imagination work in just 2 or 2.5 dimensions.
Put a cork on a pond a throw a rock in it.
It moves, mostly wobbling on the waves but it moves away from where the rock was dropped.
If it could be "anchored" at the right spot between two crests of the wave it would move with it, like a surfer on a good wave does.
A craft that creates our field from the inside and in a neutral configuration would create a perfect sphere.
What would that mean for the craft and those outside observers?
At a first glance nothing until you realise the craft has no mass at all.
You could lift a 5 ton vehicle with your little finger and flick away like something you found in your nose.
Unlike our suspended frog the craft would create a field bubble where gravity diverts around it.
Gravitity is the driving force of the space time continuum.
Without it there would be no time, without time there would be nothing.
If you would be inside the craft and be flicked away by a finger you would only realise it if you looked out of window or onto a screen showing the outside.
As the craft does not exist in the normal space time continuum, so to say, the same non existing effects of things like acceleration, g-forces and such can't apply for what is inside either.
Well, at least until you reach the wall, the suddenly all is stopped and has to enter our normal continuum again.
You would be mince meat on some wall inside what is left from your craft...
Increase the field strenght to overcome inertia of smaller particles and even air molecules or dust particles are diverted around the field.
Nothing though that would rival the mass of the craft in a significant way, like flying into a solid wall or mountain....
A modfied field geometry allows to affect the shape of the bubble.
To keep it in two dimensions, imagine a ping pong ball as the field that you press into some slime, or similar fun stuff.
Start moving it and it forms something like a wave in the front and something like a wake on the other side.
Our field can shape the bubble so that our space time continuum would look quite similar - if we could see it instead of theorising about it.
As result the craft now moves in our normal continuum without having and appearent form of engine.
The bigger you make these "waves" with your field, the fast you go....
And suddenly those impossible movements in the sky that are always dismissed as a hoax or weather balloon make a lot more sense.

Be it a Scalar drive, the Fluxliner, VR7 and derivates, they all use garvity as a propulsion system.
Fair enough you might say, but what does mean in terms of where we might have been already since almost one hundred years....
A gravity based drive system in the sience fiction section has many names.
Warp Drives of course comes to mind first.
But also FTL drive or Jump Drive.
Just because gravity waves are much faster than light already means lightspeed is not really a limit and hasn't been for a very long time.
Why do you think superconductors were first developed by/for the military? ;)
With no mass it is only a matter of the avilable energy how fast you can accelerate and what top speed you can reach....
Or to be precise: How effiently you can create an insanely strong electromagnetic field.
Make you wonder what else came from understanding what things like a Hedron Collider can do...
With an estimated energy output equal to truck sized generator you could make it from Virginia to Mare Tranquillitatis in about 10 minutes.
Make it 30 if you want to get out and stretch your legs when you are there.
Some now say "I don't care who or why someone goes to the moon."
But what about those who think climate change is real and how we produce and use energy plays a big role in it?
Let alone those actually considering that fossil fuels might run out one day....
If you have a gravity drive then you have a very neat way to create almost limitless, clean energy.....
I leave it up to what it would mean if everyone and everything in our world would have access to free and virtually unlimited energy....

Isn't it good that all this is just a nice story and that all is just fiction with no relation to reality?
But if E does not equal mc² then how relative is our reality really?

Discussions

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Downunder35m
Downunder35m

22 days ago

The above might have been a bit hard to follow and understand for some.
Let me try to make E problem in einsteins formula a bit more obvious.

Energy shall be the artificial sum of mass and the speed of light.
That would mean we could use this formular in a universal form.
Or can we?
Kinetic energy is energy the same way as radio waves or the force of a strong wind.
I dare you to use just E=mc² to calcualte how much energy is involved when a ball rolls down a ramp and hits the wall at the end....
Unless you have a good and justified high degree in some field of related science you will fail at the starting line.

Why is it seemingly impossible to actually use E=mc² for anything but theoretical calculations?
For starters, when Einstein came up with this formula, plasma was not yet known as a form of matter.
It was merely seen as an energetic gaseous form of matter - the energy in the plasma was only linked to the energy input but not the mass itself.
With c being a constant the formula can only deal and claculate that part of the equasion that happens at the speed of light and nothing else.
Gravity waves travel much faster than light and a normal explosion or impact at much slower speeds.
So in our realit E=mc² can for example calculate you relatively easy how much kinetic energy an object travelling at the speed of light would have.
Or for example and a bit more complex how much energy would be required to bring an object to the speed of light.

With that cleared up and out of the way it becomes quite obvious WHY we would need impossible amounts of energy to get a craft to light speed or even faster - the mass matters too much.
But ENERGY is a very fuzzy term and our E in the formula stands for universal, not specific kinds of energy.
If we would try to use the formula if GRAVITY would be the type of energy to deal with then it would fail completely.
Suddenly mass would have no meaning and the speed of light is slower than for example gravitational shockwaves.
The formula becomes useless.
Einstein realised all this but never acted on it unless you count some of his later publications which deal with the bigger things in universe.
His theory about relativity, if combined with the formula however gives it all a new meaning and purpose.

Time is a factor of mass and expansion, or movement.
Mass is a factor of energy, both for the binding part and the actual atomic structure of the mass.
Movement can only happen if time exist and if there is a mass involved, otherwise it just travelling energy.
And even energy can not travel without time being a real thing.
At least this is what we think when we forget relativity...
One can not be without the others and every part of what makes up our universe can be destilled down to time and energy.
With that in mind one could realise that mass only matters for as long as it is part of our normal space time continium.
A gravitational "bubble" around a mass or object would literally excempt whatever is inside from all effects that our laws of physics might cause.
Acceleration or G-forces won't exist because inside the bubble there is none.
And if those two are already gone than mass has no meaning anymore as well.
Whatever is inside the bubble becomes weigthless.
With no mass you need next to no energy at all to make it move, but you could not reall move by conventional means.
The propulsion would have to move the entire bubble and not just what is inside it.
You could mount a jet engine on a box in such a field and it wouldn't move....
But if you just slightly manipulate the shape of the field then gravity has to move differently around the bubble.
Like air does around the wing of a plane or the rotor blades of a helicopter....